Used Daisy 853 From the CMP

[JoeShmoe]

Hi All,

I just picked up a Daisy 853 form the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I'll be showing it off to my local club in an attempt to convince them that it's worth investing to start a merit badge program with the local boy scouts. Check it out, ain't she a beaut'?

I'll be posting accuracy results tomorrow after I spend all day at the range!

Cheers,
Joe



Full album:

[cobalt327]

Looks good! And good luck, I hope they see the value in a good marksmanship program.

[ac12]

Welcome to the 10m club.
10m shooting can be addicting. Especially when the weather outside is crummy.

Make sure that you check out the trigger.
If the trigger is not SMOOTH, the trigger mod may not have been done, or done properly.
The pull should be SMOOTH, if you want it accurate.
You won't get it to be like skating on ice, but you can get it pretty smooth. 
The main thing that you want to eliminate is any burrs that will catch during the pull.  That is seriously BAD news.

And do NOT reduce the pull travel on the trigger.  It isn't a precision trigger.  The sear is not hardened steel, and the edge of the sear will wear.  The sear needs enough engagement for safety, because it will wear.  If the pull is too short, it could result in an accidental discharge.

Also when you pull the trigger, then release the trigger, the sear does NOT reset. 
What this means is, if the trigger was half pulled, the sear is now half engaged, and easier to fire.
This is similar to many of my other air guns, so not unique to the x53 rifles.
This is a safety issue with kids.
Luckily, with the x53 rifles, you just recock the bolt, and the sear is reset.

This is the trigger mod thread.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39648.0

gud luk on your merit badge project.

[Earl]

Hi All,

I just picked up a Daisy 853 form the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I'll be showing it off to my local club in an attempt to convince them that it's worth investing to start a merit badge program with the local boy scouts. Check it out, ain't she a beaut'?

I'll be posting accuracy results tomorrow after I spend all day at the range!

Cheers,
Joe



Full album:

Did you order it or did you pick it up at a CMP Store?

[Bob H.]

Joe,

They are great.  Once you get the trigger work done, you won't want to part with it.  The trigger mod is not too difficult, but it does require some care and forethought.  Please keep us posted. 

When you tear an 853 down for the first time, be prepared to look for parts that have bounced and flown away.  It is wise to work over a soft cloth.

BobH.

[Marc In Iowa]

[CMP] Daisy 853 ... ain't she a beaut'?

Yes it is. 🙂

If you aren't just real happy with this rifle, I will be very surprised.

[JoeShmoe]

Joe,

They are great.  Once you get the trigger work done, you won't want to part with it.  The trigger mod is not too difficult, but it does require some care and forethought.  Please keep us posted. 

When you tear an 853 down for the first time, be prepared to look for parts that have bounced and flown away.  It is wise to work over a soft cloth.

BobH.

I actually quite like the trigger the way it is and decided not to change anything about it.

[JoeShmoe]

Hi All,

I just picked up a Daisy 853 form the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I'll be showing it off to my local club in an attempt to convince them that it's worth investing to start a merit badge program with the local boy scouts. Check it out, ain't she a beaut'?

I'll be posting accuracy results tomorrow after I spend all day at the range!

Cheers,
Joe



Full album:

Did you order it or did you pick it up at a CMP Store?

They have STORES?!!? I just got mine off the internet.

[Earl]

Yes they have 2 stores.
One in ANNISTON, ALABAMA and another in PORT CLINTON, OHIO.
https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/cmp-stores/
I downloaded the CMP form, filled it out and mailed it.

[lillysdad621]

i walkied into the anniston store yesterday, and i picked one up too. 492 fps with the 8.44 jsb. tiny cloverleafs at 15 yards... love them. got it with the monte stock...

[JoeShmoe]

Hi All,

I spent all day at the range and here are my results. The following album is in the order they were shot.



I started with 20 shots on a different target to "season" the barrel. I suspect that might not have been enough, and perhaps some of the oil needed to stabilize in the plunger and valve. That, and the wind was intermittent an gentile at the beginning. Towards the middle and the end the wind died completely. All of these shots were taken at ~10 meters from a bench rest using a scope. I did switch to the peep sight once I decided what pellet I liked best, but I don't have photos of that. The pellet drop was so severe I was aiming at the top bull with the scope and the pellets were hitting the bottom bull!

The following album is in order of performance from worst to best. I did not measure the groups.



The order from worst to best is as follows:

21. Gamo Match Classic Training
20. RWS Diabolo Basic Basic Line
19. Gamo Match Classic Training
18. H&N Sport Sport
17. H&N Sport Field Target Trophy (fed nicely)
16. RWS Meisterkugeln Professional Line 8.2 gr
15. RWS Hobby Sport Line
14. RWS Meisterkugeln Professional Line 7.0 gr
13. RWS Superdome Field Line
12. RWS Hobby Sport Line
11. Crosman Premier Match Grade 7.9 gr
10. RWS Diabolo Basic Basic Line
9. JSB Match Diabolo Exact Express Diabolo (Fed Very Smoothly)
8. Falcon Accuracy Plus
7. H&N Sport Field Target Trophy
6. RWS Meisterkugeln Professional Line 7.0 gr
5. Crosman Premier Match Grade 7.9 gr
4. RWS Meisterkugeln Professional Line 8.2 gr
3. Falcon Accuracy Plus
2. JSB Match Diabolo Exact Express Diabolo
1. RWS Superdome Field Line

It's clear some are consistently better than others. It's also clear that the rifle may have been settling in or the very slight wind may have been a factor early on. I'm still working on getting a feel for how wind effects the pellets. I ended up zeroing with the JSB Match Diabolos because those did quite well for both rounds of shooting. The Falcon Accuracy Plus would have also been a good Choice. Really, aside from a few key pellets (Gamo Match CLassic Training, H&N Sport Sport) most would shoot acceptably for the AR-1 target size.

[ac12]

How many shot groups?
Too many shots and the target gets so blasted that you can't score it.
You should use a cardboard backer, to reduce the tearing.

Guideline; only shoot as many shots into a target as you can score EACH shot. 
In regulation 10m matches, it is one shot per target. 
But most scouts won't be at that level of accuracy so maybe 5 shots per target, which happens to be the merit badge requirement (5-shot group).

However, if you do happen to have a real crack shot, I suggest shooting 2 targets per "group"; 3 shots on the 1st and 2 shots on the 2nd.  Or going to 3 or 2 shots per bull, until they shoot the required 25 shots.  Because you have to be able to score each shot.  And if they group too tight, you won't be able to score each shot.

Clean the barrel and check the rifle.
That rifle shot from a rest with a scope should be able to hold the 8 ring if not the 10 "ring."
I think your aiming at the upper target to hit the lower is a factor in the group size.

Can you hold on the target with the supplied aperture sights?
My concern is, why do you have to aim so much above the target with the scope.  Is this simply that your scope cannot adjust close enough for 10m, or is the velocity of the rifle REALLY LOW.
Time to check the rifle with a chronograph.

[JoeShmoe]

How many shot groups?
Too many shots and the target gets so blasted that you can't score it.
You should use a cardboard backer, to reduce the tearing.

Guideline; only shoot as many shots into a target as you can score EACH shot. 
In regulation 10m matches, it is one shot per target. 
But most scouts won't be at that level of accuracy so maybe 5 shots per target, which happens to be the merit badge requirement (5-shot group).

However, if you do happen to have a real crack shot, I suggest shooting 2 targets per "group"; 3 shots on the 1st and 2 shots on the 2nd.  Or going to 3 or 2 shots per bull, until they shoot the required 25 shots.  Because you have to be able to score each shot.  And if they group too tight, you won't be able to score each shot.

Clean the barrel and check the rifle.
That rifle shot from a rest with a scope should be able to hold the 8 ring if not the 10 "ring."
I think your aiming at the upper target to hit the lower is a factor in the group size.

Can you hold on the target with the supplied aperture sights?
My concern is, why do you have to aim so much above the target with the scope.  Is this simply that your scope cannot adjust close enough for 10m, or is the velocity of the rifle REALLY LOW.
Time to check the rifle with a chronograph.

Oh yes, these are ten shot groups. I was checking purely for accuracy. Many of these shots didn't even make a sound as the passed through the ragged hole.

I think that when I get the scouts involved I'll have them do more than one "style" of grouping. The requirements are for a five shot group so I'll have them do that and complete their merit badge. However, who doesn't love a little competition? I'll have them finish out the course with a proper ten shot sheet, one per target! Maybe the winner will get something special.

Yea, I didn't clean the barrel when I got it, I was hoping I could get away with not doing it. Something has got me spooked with accidentally ruining my crown. I'm not so sure about the aiming problem though. The targets are pretty well held in the mount that I've got. If anything, it helped having a crisp target to constantly aim at. The center of my POA was often dead on, though I'll admit sometimes "only" within the 9 ring. It's 10 meter bench rest with a 9x40 scope, I'd be embarrassed with anything less.

I don't think the rifle has any velocity issues, I think it's just the scope and the mount set up I've got. I've had issues adjusting this scope sufficiently before. I could follow the pellet with my eyes if I was lucky, but it wasn't anything like a Red Ryder. The peep sight only required ~25 clicks up and ~5 clicks to the right to get POI to match POA. If I had to guess, the full range of the peep sight is ~100 clicks in either direction. I took a shot at an empty soda can at the end and the pellet easily passed through both sides, though it did knock it over. That's about what I would expect from 500 fps.

I was planning on chalking it up to the tiny amounts of wind, seeing has how I was shooting outside. The better shots were at the end of the day, when the wind was non-existent but the rifle was also "broken in." However, if you don't think that would be enough (I'm still not a good judge of wind effects) then I'll clean the barrel and spend another day at the range. I had loads of fun today and I've got nothing but time. Plus, I have to do SOMETHING with these literal thousands of pellets that I have.

[ac12]

The main thing that you want is, to prove to yourself that the rifle+pellet combo will at least hold the 8 ring. Holding the 9 ring is even better, and is what the rifle is capable of. 
Actually, having a "proof target" for each rifle, is a good idea.  It will show the scouts what the rifle is capable of shooting, and will give them the confidence that they won't loose the merit badge because of a rifle that is not accurate.

You bring up a point about shooting.
10m shooting is normally done indoors, where there is no wind to affect the pellet in flight.
If you shoot outdoors, it should ideally be in a sheltered range where the effects of wind is minimal.  Because otherwise, that would add wind doping to the task of shooting by the scouts, which may make it harder to hold the 6 ring.

Cleaning the 853s barrel will require pushing a cleaning rod from the front.
You can't get to the breach like with a break-barrel, and that small loading port won't let you use most pull-though cleaning devices.

An old trick for protecting the crown:
- Get a plastic straw, cut it to about 2 inches long, then cut it open length-wise.
- Then squeeze the straw so it is smaller in diameter. 
- Then slip it an inch into the muzzle, and stick out at least an inch.
- Then open the straw, like a flower, so that you can hold/tape it to the barrel.
The straw will prevent the cleaning rod or jag from hitting the crown.

But if the rifle is able to hold the 9 ring, I would not bother cleaning the barrel.
Don't fix something that is not broken.

[cobalt327]

I'd clean the barrel w/a patch or 2 at least- you just cannot know what the gun may contain, even coming straight from the CMP. I'm pretty sure these guns are not all worked on by the same armorer judging by the two I have and what others have reported. The image below is what I found in my first gun after repeated barrel cleanings didn't keep it from being fouled after a couple dozen shots. The lube had worked its way all the way through the gun, from the compression tube through the TP and out the barrel. The second gun had no such problem and in fact didn't use any black moly lube.

[ac12]

Ugh, Mark,
That would require a full tear down to clean that kind of stuff out   

[cobalt327]

Indeed! That gun had several issues besides too much lube (dings on the outside of the barrel, crown and breach irregularities, low power/high ES) but after a fair amount of work it now shoots very good. Had I known what I was in for, I'd have simply exchanged it. Thankfully that gun does not represent what a CMP buyer gets the vast majority of the time.

[JoeShmoe]

All,

I did an at-home test today. All I had were the Crosman Premiere Wadcutters from yesterday (I keep most of my ammo at the range). Looking at yesterday's data they performed decently well, though they weren't the best. Today's shots were taken at twenty feet, prone, with a sling (my first time shooting with a sling), using the peep sights. Each group is a five shot group. I'll chalk the first group up to getting used to the sling.

I think we don't have anything to worry about with this rifle, and any accuracy problems from yesterday were likely wind-induced. That does raise the problem of how to qualify in the wind, but I suspect I'll be able to adjust the requirements to account for the wind of that day. The Boy Scouts tend to be amendable to that sort of thing. I could shoot a group myself to start off the qualification round (or whatever) and adjust the requirements accordingly.







Joe

[WeaselCat]

I stopped by the North store yesterday. There were about ten each of the monte carlo and standard on the rack. I selected one of each based on the "nicest" wood. The rear screw was completely loose on about half of them, including the standard stock one that I bought. Luckily, it just wasn't installed correctly instead of stripped.
They are both torn apart now for a stock refinish and trigger mod.

No affiliated club membership or marksmanship training required. Anyone can stop at the store and buy them. Very nice and helpful staff.

[ac12]

Joe,
That is the kind of accuracy I was expecting to see.    (thumbs up)

I like your idea of using a group shot by yourself as an adjustment factor for the wind.

A few wind flags near the target would be a good idea.
Then they can try to shoot when the wind is minimal, or at least consistent for each shot.