Cheap Air Rifles for Merit Badges

[ac12]

I read the merit badge pamphlet, and I have a problem with the "bench rest" position as they describe it.

- The pamphlet describes and shows a 1 point benchrest.  Only the forestock is supported by the "rest."  The rear of the stock is supported by the shooter.

- Without a rear owl bag, to support the stock, you NEED to really stabilize your body and shoulder, to stabilize the rifle.

- I found, that I have to rest/push my body against the bench/table, to stabilize my upper body.  If I don't my upper body will move and make it difficult to stabilize the rifle.  You need 3 point support; upper body firmly against the bench and both elbows on the bench.

- In looking at the pictures/drawings of the rest, it looks too high.  When it is too far above the bench, it is more difficult to stabilize the shooter and rifle.

Regarding the "bench"
- The bench has to be as stable as possible, and able to lean the body against it.  The least bit of rocking or wobbling, and you can forget accuracy for the kids.  IMHO, if you can't get stable benches/tables, shoot prone.
- With a bench, the height of the seat and bench top is important, if not critical.
If it is too far apart, the short shooters will have problems reaching and positioning the rifle.
If the seat is too high, the short shooter's feet won't reach the ground, and it will be difficult to stabilize the body on the seat.  So you need feet supports for the shorter shooters, like pieces of 2x12.
- The chair on page 42 is BAD.  I've sat on that chair and if you seat forward, it will tend to rock forward.  Definitely NOT good to use.  Much better is the chair on page 51. 
I would rather use a wood stool with a large FLAT top, so it won't tilt the hip bone as chairs tend to do.

The guys that shoot Bench Rest Air Rifle should have some better tips/advice here.

Shooting prone, eliminates almost all the hassles of the bench.  You just need a good mat and padding for the elbows.
But shooting prone is not as easy as shooting from a bench, at least for me.
Because the sling comes into play, and is important for accuracy.  Though the sling is not mentioned in the merit badge pamphlet, maybe because they don't intend the shooters to use a sling.

[ac12]

BTW, I found it interesting that the BSA would include muzzle loading rifles in the rifle shooting merit badge.

[ac12]

Ruger Explorer or SAR Embark.

I read about the SAR Embark and it seems like a neat rifle and program.
I may have to get me one of these rifles, to replace the out of production Gamo Delta.

But for accuracy, I would still go with the CMP 853.  Because one of the merit badge requirements is a certain minimum level of accuracy.  And that is where I failed for my marksmanship merit badge.

I've also contacted SAR to see what advice they can offer me.

Contacting SAR is good.
The CMP 853 should give better accuracy than the SAR Umarex Embark break barrel, therefore allowing the boys to win their merit badges.
The SAR competition is good because it gives all the shooters the same equipment to have fair competition, but the merit badges have a difficult set standard to be met.  The boys will need all the accuracy they can get.

Agreed.
Accuracy is how I failed my marksmanship merit badge.
Don't make it any harder than it already is.

[bantam5s]

What about the new Daisy 1910 BSA air rifle ?
It's just a model 35 with brown stock which says BSA on it, but my model 35 was pretty accurate for a smooth bore.

There's also the 880 which is a very accurate rifle for $35.

[ac12]

Ruger Explorer or SAR Embark.

I read about the SAR Embark and it seems like a neat rifle and program.
I may have to get me one of these rifles, to replace the out of production Gamo Delta.

But for accuracy, I would still go with the CMP 853.  Because one of the merit badge requirements is a certain minimum level of accuracy.  And that is where I failed for my marksmanship merit badge.

I've also contacted SAR to see what advice they can offer me.

Contacting SAR is good.
The CMP 853 should give better accuracy than the SAR Umarex Embark break barrel, therefore allowing the boys to win their merit badges.
The SAR competition is good because it gives all the shooters the same equipment to have fair competition, but the merit badges have a difficult set standard to be met.  The boys will need all the accuracy they can get.

Agreed.
Accuracy is how I failed my marksmanship merit badge.
Don't make it any harder than it already is.

Correction, LACK of accuracy is how I failed my marksmanship merit badge.

[ac12]

- start quote
I am pretty sure that there is an error on the specified 10m target.
An AR-1 target is NOT a 10-ring target.  At least the ones that I found doing an internet search are not 10-ring targets.
http://www.nationaltarget.com/product_info.php/-p-355

A PDF of the meritbadge pamphlet shows the same error.
http://troop577wichita.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/2/2/11225514/rifle_shooting_2001.pdf

I think they mean the AR-5/1 single bull target.
However you should contact the BSA to get a formal clarification/correction of the correct 10m target to be used.
- end quote

Curiosity got the better of me. 
I just sent an email to the BSA to find out what the correct 10meter target is.
Will report back, when they respond to me.

[DanD]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the daisy 880 for $35 from Walmart.  It'll shoot under a quarter at 10 m with pellets. Can also shoot bbs. Heavy trigger could be lightened by removing the flat spring but will still be over 3lbs. Easy to pump.  And cheap!
Have fun!

I've never gotten that kind of accuracy out of my Daisy 880, even after all the work I put into it with the suggested mods. Maybe I'm a terrible shot! O.o Maybe I need to find the right pellet.

The right pellet and number of pumps combination is always important. It could be you just got a bad barrel, though. I have three modern 880s that will shoot under a quarter, and sometimes under a dime at 10m. JSB pellets usually work well in my pumpers.
Good luck!

[JoeShmoe]

I've never gotten that kind of accuracy out of my Daisy 880, even after all the work I put into it with the suggested mods. Maybe I'm a terrible shot! O.o Maybe I need to find the right pellet.

I disagree, I've seen you shoot, and you ARE a good shot.

It's a great think you are doing Joe, let me know if you need any help at the club when you are teaching and qualifying shooters.

Be careful what you say, I might use you as leverage to get the final approval from the club!

[JoeShmoe]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the daisy 880 for $35 from Walmart.  It'll shoot under a quarter at 10 m with pellets. Can also shoot bbs. Heavy trigger could be lightened by removing the flat spring but will still be over 3lbs. Easy to pump.  And cheap!
Have fun!

I've never gotten that kind of accuracy out of my Daisy 880, even after all the work I put into it with the suggested mods. Maybe I'm a terrible shot! O.o Maybe I need to find the right pellet.

The right pellet and number of pumps combination is always important. It could be you just got a bad barrel, though. I have three modern 880s that will shoot under a quarter, and sometimes under a dime at 10m. JSB pellets usually work well in my pumpers.
Good luck!

Maybe I'll start working on JSBs with the 880. On the other hand, that wood stock on the 873 is so nice!

[JoeShmoe]

I read the merit badge pamphlet, and I have a problem with the "bench rest" position as they describe it.

- The pamphlet describes and shows a 1 point benchrest.  Only the forestock is supported by the "rest."  The rear of the stock is supported by the shooter.

- Without a rear owl bag, to support the stock, you NEED to really stabilize your body and shoulder, to stabilize the rifle.

- I found, that I have to rest/push my body against the bench/table, to stabilize my upper body.  If I don't my upper body will move and make it difficult to stabilize the rifle.  You need 3 point support; upper body firmly against the bench and both elbows on the bench.

- In looking at the pictures/drawings of the rest, it looks too high.  When it is too far above the bench, it is more difficult to stabilize the shooter and rifle.

Regarding the "bench"
- The bench has to be as stable as possible, and able to lean the body against it.  The least bit of rocking or wobbling, and you can forget accuracy for the kids.  IMHO, if you can't get stable benches/tables, shoot prone.
- With a bench, the height of the seat and bench top is important, if not critical.
If it is too far apart, the short shooters will have problems reaching and positioning the rifle.
If the seat is too high, the short shooter's feet won't reach the ground, and it will be difficult to stabilize the body on the seat.  So you need feet supports for the shorter shooters, like pieces of 2x12.
- The chair on page 42 is BAD.  I've sat on that chair and if you seat forward, it will tend to rock forward.  Definitely NOT good to use.  Much better is the chair on page 51. 
I would rather use a wood stool with a large FLAT top, so it won't tilt the hip bone as chairs tend to do.

The guys that shoot Bench Rest Air Rifle should have some better tips/advice here.

Shooting prone, eliminates almost all the hassles of the bench.  You just need a good mat and padding for the elbows.
But shooting prone is not as easy as shooting from a bench, at least for me.
Because the sling comes into play, and is important for accuracy.  Though the sling is not mentioned in the merit badge pamphlet, maybe because they don't intend the shooters to use a sling.

We would almost certainly shoot prone, as it cuts down on initial investment (we don't have shooting benches) and allows us to be more flexible when choosing range areas for the boys. I'm almost certain a sling is not used for the BSA merit badge.

[ac12]

I looked at the BSA merit badge page.
There are some really neat merit badges now.
Makes me want to try to do some of them.

[Oldgringo]

Hey All,

I'm in the hunt for 10 to 15 air rifles that could be used by a local boyscout troop to earn rifle shooting merit badges. The shooting requirements for an air rifle are as follows:

k. Using a BB gun or pellet air rifle and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position at 15 feet for BB guns or 33 feet for air rifles, fire five groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter.
l. Adjust sights to center the group on the target and fire five groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) BB rifle at 15 feet or 5 meters using TQ - 5 targets - 8; (2) Pellet air rifle at 25 feet using TQ - 5 target - 8, at 33 feet or 10 meters using AR-1 targets - 6.

What gun do you think would best suit this purpose? Obviously the cheaper the better, but the gun also has to consistently perform or the boys will fail to earn a badge through no fault of their own.

Cheers,
Joe

I Own a couple CMP 853's.  If I were in your shoes, I'd try to come up with 2-3 CMP 853's and let the youth take turns learning the guns and how to treat them how to safely shoot a quality pellet gun.  It's not only about targets and merit badges. 

[Oldgringo]

Hey All,

I'm in the hunt for 10 to 15 air rifles that could be used by a local boyscout troop to earn rifle shooting merit badges. The shooting requirements for an air rifle are as follows:

k. Using a BB gun or pellet air rifle and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position at 15 feet for BB guns or 33 feet for air rifles, fire five groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter.
l. Adjust sights to center the group on the target and fire five groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) BB rifle at 15 feet or 5 meters using TQ - 5 targets - 8; (2) Pellet air rifle at 25 feet using TQ - 5 target - 8, at 33 feet or 10 meters using AR-1 targets - 6.

What gun do you think would best suit this purpose? Obviously the cheaper the better, but the gun also has to consistently perform or the boys will fail to earn a badge through no fault of their own.

Cheers,
Joe

I own a couple of quality CMP 853's.  If I were in your shoes, I'd try to come up with 2-3 CMP 853's and let the youth take turns learning the guns and how to treat them how to safely shoot a quality pellet gun.  It's not only about targets and merit badges.

[Oldgringo]

oops!

[ac12]

BTW, 10-15 rifles seems like a LOT of rifles for a single troop.
How large is the troop?
Not all would be at the merit badge earning level. 
And would you have 10+ going for the rifle shooting merit badge at the same time?
- For your FIRST class, you may have more than 10.  But after that first class, it will drop down.
- If you have multiple troops, then the answer might be YES.
- How many scouts can your club work with and teach at the same time?  If you don't have enough qualified volunteers, that might be your limiting factor.

So as Oldgringo said, you likely need less than your 10-15 rifles.

[ac12]

BTW, so that everyone is on the same page, this is the link to the current merit badge requirements.
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Merit_Badge_ReqandRes/Rifle_Shooting.pdf

The requirements above, do not have any of the educational material that is in the pamphlet (link below).
http://troop577wichita.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/2/2/11225514/rifle_shooting_2001.pdf
But I cannot find the pamphlets on the BSA site.

[JoeShmoe]

BTW, 10-15 rifles seems like a LOT of rifles for a single troop.
How large is the troop?
Not all would be at the merit badge earning level. 
And would you have 10+ going for the rifle shooting merit badge at the same time?
- For your FIRST class, you may have more than 10.  But after that first class, it will drop down.
- If you have multiple troops, then the answer might be YES.
- How many scouts can your club work with and teach at the same time?  If you don't have enough qualified volunteers, that might be your limiting factor.

So as Oldgringo said, you likely need less than your 10-15 rifles.

That's a good point. My mental model is based off summer camp, where they host multiple troops a week and have 20+ .22LR for the range. Even if I have a big group, I could send most of them on an orienteering trip or something to keep them occupied. I'm sure it would be rather boring to sit and watch your friends try and shoot for their merit badges.

[JoeShmoe]

Holy poop! Look at this accuracy!

[ac12]

Holy poop! Look at this accuracy!

That is why I recommended it.
The scout shooter will be the weak link, not the gun.

If you have never shot a SSP, you might get ONE rifle to try it out, and evaluate.
Then see for yourself how easy it is to shoot accurately with that rifle. 
But also to see what the charging and loading procedure is.  Because it is different than a break-barrel spring rifle.
Then make your decision after that.

BTW, they have 2 different stocks.
- sportster.  A traditional straight stock.
- monte carlo, as in the video, with a vertical pistol grip.
I personally prefer the vertical grip of the monte carlo stock, for target shooting.

FYI.  The plastic 953 stock will fit the 853, and can be used to replace a damaged or broken 853 stock.  Order it directly from Daisy.
The plastic stock is more durable and heavier (weight is your friend in target shooting).  But I have seen a few reports of the plastic stock flexing slightly in hotter climates.
I did this myself.  I have a plastic 953 stock on my 853.  I did it to get the heavier stock and vertical pistol grip.

[the fuse]

I would like to echo the 880 as a very inexpensive choice. In my experience, the 880 is accurate enough, out of the box, at 25 feet. I don't shoot BB's out of mine but I would think it would work well at 15 feet with BB's. I'd go with lead BB's. Man......15 feet is CLOSE.