Cheap Air Rifles for Merit Badges

[JoeShmoe]

Hey All,

I'm in the hunt for 10 to 15 air rifles that could be used by a local boyscout troop to earn rifle shooting merit badges. The shooting requirements for an air rifle are as follows:

k. Using a BB gun or pellet air rifle and shooting from a bench rest or supported prone position at 15 feet for BB guns or 33 feet for air rifles, fire five groups (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter.
l. Adjust sights to center the group on the target and fire five groups (five shots per group). According to the target used, each shot in the group must meet the following minimum score: (1) BB rifle at 15 feet or 5 meters using TQ - 5 targets - 8; (2) Pellet air rifle at 25 feet using TQ - 5 target - 8, at 33 feet or 10 meters using AR-1 targets - 6.

What gun do you think would best suit this purpose? Obviously the cheaper the better, but the gun also has to consistently perform or the boys will fail to earn a badge through no fault of their own.

Cheers,
Joe

[Kailua]

You might talk to Mike Melick at Flying Dragon Airguns. IIRC The Xisico XS12 is a youth size break barrel pellet rifle with fixed sights used for youth training.

[ac12]

CMP refurbished Daisy 853.
They are $105 + $15 shipping.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/
Unfortunately 10-15 of them will add up to a significant expense for a troop.
I would contact the CMP to see if you can get a price break for a boy scout troop.  Just be aware that the $105 price is already a GOOD price for that rifle, so you may not be able to get a price break.

An 853 in good working order should easily be able to hold the 8-ring of a TQ-5 target, or 6 ring of an AR-5/1 target.  And that is the main requirement of the rifle.

The 853 is a SSP rifle, so there is ZERO recoil. 
Recoil is a major reason for not shooting accurately.
I would NOT use a spring rifle.  Managing the recoil of a spring rifle CONSISTENTLY for 25 record shots, will be difficult for the kids. 
NONE of my non-match spring rifles shoot accurately as easily as a SSP.

Tip:  MAKE the scouts wear a hearing protector, either muff (easier to use) or plug (does not get in the way of the stock).  It WILL make a difference, especially if they shoot in an enclosed area.

The 853 comes with a basic aperture sight front and rear.  IMHO aperture sights are a LOT easier to use for target shooting than a notch and post sight, especially on the AR-5/1 target.  (more about the target later)

The CMP rifles likely have had the triggers modified to smoothen it out. 
If not, it is an easy mod to do.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39648.msg370084#msg370084
IMHO, the minimum is the smoothening of the sear and hammer. 
The stock trigger on my 953 was soooooo bad that I was fighting the trigger and could not concentrate on the target.  Luckily smoothening the sear and hammer is the easiest of the 3 trigger mods to do.

I am pretty sure that there is an error on the specified 10m target. 
An AR-1 target is NOT a 10-ring target.  At least the ones that I found doing an internet search are not 10-ring targets.
http://www.nationaltarget.com/product_info.php/-p-355

A PDF of the meritbadge pamphlet shows the same error.
http://troop577wichita.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/2/2/11225514/rifle_shooting_2001.pdf

I think they mean the AR-5/1 single bull target.
However you should contact the BSA to get a formal clarification/correction of the correct 10m target to be used.

[ac12]

There is a fixed sight alternative.  BUT it is limited to .22RF, not air rifles.

*NOTE: It is not always practical to adjust the sights (i.e., when using a borrowed fixed-sight rifle). For requirement 2(l), you may demonstrate your ability to use the shooting fundamentals by shooting five shot groups (five shots per group) in which all shots can be covered by or touch a quarter and then explain how to adjust the sights to zero the rifle used.

In reading the merit badge pamphlet, I see a requirement of a min 3 pound trigger.  Probably for safety.
CMP Sportster rifles have a min 1-1/2 pound trigger.
If the BSA requirement is followed, the CMP rifles may have to have the triggers de-modified to get the weight UP, to the 3 pound min.
You will also have get a trigger scale or rig up a 3 pound static trigger weight.

[lefteyeshot]

Ruger Explorer or SAR Embark.

[ac12]

This makes me think of when I was in the boy scouts.
I remember trying and failing for this merit badge.
We shot at a scout camp with 22RF. 
We shot prone with minimal support of the forestock.
Like most kids, I thought shooting was easy, and I was really sad when I failed the shooting scores.

In hind sight, I doubt those rifles were properly cleaned and maintained.  So the barrels were pretty fouled.
And I think that the shooting instructions that we got as part of the merit badge, were probably not as good as it could have been.  Though, I now realize how difficult it can be to train a young kid.

Today I can easily shoot the min 60% score, standing.
Credit to my AR coach for that.

[ac12]

Ruger Explorer or SAR Embark.

I read about the SAR Embark and it seems like a neat rifle and program.
I may have to get me one of these rifles, to replace the out of production Gamo Delta.

But for accuracy, I would still go with the CMP 853.  Because one of the merit badge requirements is a certain minimum level of accuracy.  And that is where I failed for my marksmanship merit badge.

[Doug Wall]

There are LOTS of rules that need to be followed for BSA shooting!
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/Outdoor%20Program/pdf/30931_WB.pdf
What kind of budget are you looking at. I'm pretty sure that Crosman will give considerable support for those type of activities, and they might have recommendations. You'll want something in the lower power range for springers, or perhaps CO2 guns. Something easy to shoot would be best for kids to get the kind of accuracy need to get those quarter size groups.

[DanD]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the daisy 880 for $35 from Walmart.  It'll shoot under a quarter at 10 m with pellets. Can also shoot bbs. Heavy trigger could be lightened by removing the flat spring but will still be over 3lbs. Easy to pump.  And cheap!
Have fun!

[Roadworthy]

I would not recommend any break barrel springer for this task.  The learning curve can be pretty steep.  A pump type airgun or CO2 would be preferable in my humble opinion.

The Daisy 880 would probably be an excellent choice.  I believe Crosman puts one out in about the same price and capability range.

I got my marksmanship badge with my personal .22 rimfire but that was sixty years ago.  That may be out of the question in this day and age.

[Big Rick]

I`m with Tom on this. No break barrel guns. Contact a manufacturer and you may be surprised by a big discount or donation. I think the NRA has a youth program so maybe talk to them too for advise. You deserve a pat on the back for taking this on. Well done!

[Earl]

CMP refurbished Daisy 853.
They are $105 + $15 shipping.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/
Unfortunately 10-15 of them will add up to a significant expense for a troop.
I would contact the CMP to see if you can get a price break for a boy scout troop.  Just be aware that the $105 price is already a GOOD price for that rifle, so you may not be able to get a price break.

An 853 in good working order should easily be able to hold the 8-ring of a TQ-5 target, or 6 ring of an AR-5/1 target.  And that is the main requirement of the rifle.

The 853 is a SSP rifle, so there is ZERO recoil. 
Recoil is a major reason for not shooting accurately.
I would NOT use a spring rifle.  Managing the recoil of a spring rifle CONSISTENTLY for 25 record shots, will be difficult for the kids. 
NONE of my non-match spring rifles shoot accurately as easily as a SSP.

Tip:  MAKE the scouts wear a hearing protector, either muff (easier to use) or plug (does not get in the way of the stock).  It WILL make a difference, especially if they shoot in an enclosed area.

The 853 comes with a basic aperture sight front and rear.  IMHO aperture sights are a LOT easier to use for target shooting than a notch and post sight, especially on the AR-5/1 target.  (more about the target later)

The CMP rifles likely have had the triggers modified to smoothen it out. 
If not, it is an easy mod to do.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39648.msg370084#msg370084
IMHO, the minimum is the smoothening of the sear and hammer. 
The stock trigger on my 953 was soooooo bad that I was fighting the trigger and could not concentrate on the target.  Luckily smoothening the sear and hammer is the easiest of the 3 trigger mods to do.

I am pretty sure that there is an error on the specified 10m target. 
An AR-1 target is NOT a 10-ring target.  At least the ones that I found doing an internet search are not 10-ring targets.
http://www.nationaltarget.com/product_info.php/-p-355

A PDF of the meritbadge pamphlet shows the same error.
http://troop577wichita.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/2/2/11225514/rifle_shooting_2001.pdf

I think they mean the AR-5/1 single bull target.
However you should contact the BSA to get a formal clarification/correction of the correct 10m target to be used.

That is excellent advice.
Read it 2 times today, then 1 time every day for a week.
Crosman should also be contacted as suggested.

[Earl]

I will donate $120 to the Boy Scout Troupe to buy one of the CMP refurbished Daisy 853 rifles.

What name do I put on the check?
What address do I send the check to?

[JoeShmoe]

I will donate $120 to the Boy Scout Troupe to buy one of the CMP refurbished Daisy 853 rifles.

What name do I put on the check?
What address do I send the check to?

Earl (and others):

I should clarify, the rifles would be for my local sportsman club, of which I am a member. As such, I would not feel comfortable accepting donations since we are not a "charitable" organization like the Boy Scouts. It wouldn't feel right, even though we have plans to work with them.

I greatly appreciate the offer though!

[JoeShmoe]

CMP refurbished Daisy 853.
They are $105 + $15 shipping.
http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/
Unfortunately 10-15 of them will add up to a significant expense for a troop.
I would contact the CMP to see if you can get a price break for a boy scout troop.  Just be aware that the $105 price is already a GOOD price for that rifle, so you may not be able to get a price break.

An 853 in good working order should easily be able to hold the 8-ring of a TQ-5 target, or 6 ring of an AR-5/1 target.  And that is the main requirement of the rifle.

The 853 is a SSP rifle, so there is ZERO recoil. 
Recoil is a major reason for not shooting accurately.
I would NOT use a spring rifle.  Managing the recoil of a spring rifle CONSISTENTLY for 25 record shots, will be difficult for the kids. 
NONE of my non-match spring rifles shoot accurately as easily as a SSP.

Tip:  MAKE the scouts wear a hearing protector, either muff (easier to use) or plug (does not get in the way of the stock).  It WILL make a difference, especially if they shoot in an enclosed area.

The 853 comes with a basic aperture sight front and rear.  IMHO aperture sights are a LOT easier to use for target shooting than a notch and post sight, especially on the AR-5/1 target.  (more about the target later)

The CMP rifles likely have had the triggers modified to smoothen it out. 
If not, it is an easy mod to do.
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=39648.msg370084#msg370084
IMHO, the minimum is the smoothening of the sear and hammer. 
The stock trigger on my 953 was soooooo bad that I was fighting the trigger and could not concentrate on the target.  Luckily smoothening the sear and hammer is the easiest of the 3 trigger mods to do.

I am pretty sure that there is an error on the specified 10m target. 
An AR-1 target is NOT a 10-ring target.  At least the ones that I found doing an internet search are not 10-ring targets.
http://www.nationaltarget.com/product_info.php/-p-355

A PDF of the meritbadge pamphlet shows the same error.
http://troop577wichita.weebly.com/uploads/1/1/2/2/11225514/rifle_shooting_2001.pdf

I think they mean the AR-5/1 single bull target.
However you should contact the BSA to get a formal clarification/correction of the correct 10m target to be used.

As stated before, this is excellent sounding advice. I'm going to contact the CMP and see what they think.

[JoeShmoe]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the daisy 880 for $35 from Walmart.  It'll shoot under a quarter at 10 m with pellets. Can also shoot bbs. Heavy trigger could be lightened by removing the flat spring but will still be over 3lbs. Easy to pump.  And cheap!
Have fun!

I've never gotten that kind of accuracy out of my Daisy 880, even after all the work I put into it with the suggested mods. Maybe I'm a terrible shot! O.o Maybe I need to find the right pellet.

[JoeShmoe]

Ruger Explorer or SAR Embark.

I read about the SAR Embark and it seems like a neat rifle and program.
I may have to get me one of these rifles, to replace the out of production Gamo Delta.

But for accuracy, I would still go with the CMP 853.  Because one of the merit badge requirements is a certain minimum level of accuracy.  And that is where I failed for my marksmanship merit badge.

I've also contacted SAR to see what advice they can offer me.

[ac12]

On the CPM rifles, you should have one person do a full QA check on the rifles when they are received.  I have read of occasional problems with the rifles.  Most of the rifles are used (probably ROTC and JROTC), so problems sometimes slip by the refurbish team.  While the CMP will take care of the problems, you don't want a kid to run into any of those problems.

I think "old gringo" lucked out and got a NEW "in the box" 853   

[Earl]

Ruger Explorer or SAR Embark.

I read about the SAR Embark and it seems like a neat rifle and program.
I may have to get me one of these rifles, to replace the out of production Gamo Delta.

But for accuracy, I would still go with the CMP 853.  Because one of the merit badge requirements is a certain minimum level of accuracy.  And that is where I failed for my marksmanship merit badge.

I've also contacted SAR to see what advice they can offer me.

Contacting SAR is good.
The CMP 853 should give better accuracy than the SAR Umarex Embark break barrel, therefore allowing the boys to win their merit badges.
The SAR competition is good because it gives all the shooters the same equipment to have fair competition, but the merit badges have a difficult set standard to be met.  The boys will need all the accuracy they can get.

[Tater]

I've never gotten that kind of accuracy out of my Daisy 880, even after all the work I put into it with the suggested mods. Maybe I'm a terrible shot! O.o Maybe I need to find the right pellet.

I disagree, I've seen you shoot, and you ARE a good shot.

It's a great think you are doing Joe, let me know if you need any help at the club when you are teaching and qualifying shooters.