My new .25 SPA M16 (Air Max Dominator) thread... :-)

[shultz]

I paid waay too much for her. This is a great gun at it's real market value, but not such a deal at the US price. In the future, I would prefer to not be price-gouged..

At $350-$375, yeah, that's a proper price. At almost $500? No. Never again..

Now, that said, I own it now, and I will make it work best it can. But, never again. Did I mention that already?

Yeah. Not happy about the terms, but I do still feel the gun will be a winner. Especially when priced appropriately!!

I completely agree. I was generous, earlier in this thread when I said $350-400.....

[avator]

I think I remember saying that right out of the gate..... way overpriced and out of my range for something unproven and from a Chinese company that gave us the B series tool truck guns. I think we are settling in and the smoke is clearing around the Varmint. The fact that they almost got it right and then some brainiac said "hey, I found a great deal on O-rings" One can almost understand that mass produced gun might need a bit of TLC to soften die stamped slots and such but, a clear choice to save a mere couple cents per gun? Is the M series the same? Well, so far.... looks like ... yep.

[avator]

Think I'll have another look at that GAMO Urban.

[.]

Think I'll have another look at that GAMO Urban.

I already have two of those, lol, and am working on a build for my SIL with a third, ha!

[.]

I think I remember saying that right out of the gate..... way overpriced and out of my range for something unproven and from a Chinese company that gave us the B series tool truck guns. I think we are settling in and the smoke is clearing around the Varmint. The fact that they almost got it right and then some brainiac said "hey, I found a great deal on O-rings" One can almost understand that mass produced gun might need a bit of TLC to soften die stamped slots and such but, a clear choice to save a mere couple cents per gun? Is the M series the same? Well, so far.... looks like ... yep.

Well, the risks were obvious, and the handwriting was on the wall about over-pricing, too. I'm not a regretter/remorser, lol, but I am somebody that remembers being taken advantage of by somebody.

I think the potential with these guns is always gonna be the lure. but now that the market KNOWS better, you'll see more price 'corrections'..

Krale has the M10 at 243 Euros, the CP2 at 139 Euros, and in camo, and the LR700W at 169 Euros, and I would bet the farm they are stocking the newest 'versions', not the left overs we got like with the .177 Varmints. I don't much care for duplicity, and such...

Grr.

[WesBob]

The Dominator is the M16 and is the exact same price on Krale-schietsport.nl once you convert to dollars as what you guys paid plus you got free shipping, and the CP2 is only $13 more than Krale, though you make a good point about the camo version not being available, lol, I was really liking the looks of that Camo!
The other dealers that I found of the cp2 seem to want 199 euros so they are way over priced in a lot of countries.
I did find a p15 for $379US at toymart.pk with super cheap shipping!

[avator]

Getting thoughts from my head to my fingers may not be my strong point.... at least not in a way that others may "get my drift". I'm not at all remorseful. Heck, I'm not even sorry for my choice of vendor, for that matter. As I've pointed out several times... one of our all time favorite Chinese gun vendors don't provide tracking, answer the phone whenever it rings or respond to e-mails. Albeit, he is a slave to his love for his hobby and commitment to his fellow airgunner.
Not my point.... My point is, SPA is undisputedly (my opinion) at the forefront of innovation in the low end realm of air guns. And to drop the ball over the cost of an o-ring or quality of a regulator is mind boggling.

[.]

Getting thoughts from my head to my fingers may not be my strong point.... at least not in a way that others may "get my drift". I'm not at all remorseful. Heck, I'm not even sorry for my choice of vendor, for that matter. As I've pointed out several times... one of our all time favorite Chinese gun vendors don't provide tracking, answer the phone whenever it rings or respond to e-mails. Albeit, he is a slave to his love for his hobby and commitment to his fellow airgunner.
Not my point.... My point is, SPA is undisputedly (my opinion) at the forefront of innovation in the low end realm of air guns. And to drop the ball over the cost of an o-ring or quality of a regulator is mind boggling.

The ball-dropping extends into other areas of manufacture and business practices.

Not a company that inspires confidence, not in my view.

But, yes, the design work is great for the price-point. I stand by that statement, and my statements about poor suppliers and their practices.

There is no justifiable reason that the products cannot be right, the distribution professional, and the pricing commensurate with value.

The rag-tag approach has resulted in rag-tag practices.

[avator]

Looking forward to other vendors getting their hands on these guns (if it happens) and see how they do with them.

[anti-squirrel]

The Dominator is the M16 and is the exact same price on Krale-schietsport.nl once you convert to dollars as what you guys paid plus you got free shipping, and the CP2 is only $13 more than Krale, though you make a good point about the camo version not being available, lol, I was really liking the looks of that Camo!
The other dealers that I found of the cp2 seem to want 199 euros so they are way over priced in a lot of countries.
I did find a p15 for $379US at toymart.pk with super cheap shipping!

I saw that.

If I had money to blow, I'd make a couple investments into P-15s.  Shipping from Pakistan seems to be very inexpensive, too.

Right now SPA is a hot commodity.  And when you look at what you get for the money, it's still a good value.  All I have to do is ask how many Crosman owners have had to buy aftermarket barrels for their .22 PCPs.

At least with SPA, the barrels for the most part are very good.  I also take the approach I did working in the Navy on very very expensive high-dollar HPA air equipment.  Why should a $750,000 valve need rebuilding every 6 months if is passed MIL-SPEC testing?  And yet every single time, despite using surgical precision and practically a Clean Room environment, the O-rings would fail.  and these were not cheapo Chinese rubber.  And DO NOT GET ME STARTED on regulators.  Vaaco is a dirty word in my my house, and it's still the best name out there.

So yeah, my views are skewed.  I still say nobody can touch SPA regarding what you get for the money.  Hatsan is a distant second place.

And I'm sure if you look around at other manufacturers where you pay a whole lot more, you still run the risk.  I'd rather do it on a $400 airgun than a $2000 airgun.

[.]

I own, umm, seven SPAs? I get the 'value' thing, and then some..

And yes, the lower tier models are a HUGE value, even if still over-priced (where ever the market supports it). But, I know the actual wholesale numbers and the retail numbers, too, soooo, my 'feelings' may run deeper than a guess about the M-series guns.

I would love to spill my guts about the whole she-bang, but prudence tells me 'no'.

Once the market stabilizes, the market will decide the price point, but until the supply line is secure, the market cannot stabilize...

That's what I can say.

[WesBob]

I own, umm, seven SPAs? I get the 'value' thing, and then some..

And yes, the lower tier models are a HUGE value, even if still over-priced (where ever the market supports it). But, I know the actual wholesale numbers and the retail numbers, too, soooo, my 'feelings' may run deeper than a guess about the M-series guns.

I would love to spill my guts about the whole she-bang, but prudence tells me 'no'.

Once the market stabilizes, the market will decide the price point, but until the supply line is secure, the market cannot stabilize...

That's what I can say.

I hear you about the price compared to what snow peak charges Chickie! Unless there is some serious amount of duties on these guns, they gotta be selling them for pennies on the dollar they are going for. I bought a bunch of parts from Snowpeak and am in the process of buying more, just got a price list of parts on the Pr900w and Cp1 to make my own CP2, Edit: Amazing prices on parts is all I should say! Good on them, and I hope it stays this way!

[.]

WesBob,

This is what I meant about the 'price corrections' in the market:

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/spa-m10.html

This new price is actually where the M-10 should be selling.

At $290, this gun makes sense. The M16s should be about $350-$375...

The only way my .25 Dominator was worth $499, even with two magazines, would have been if the seller had also thrown in a .22 CP2 Master Blaster in the deal..

I love the guns, just not the bumpy buyer interface paradigm, if'n ya catch me drift, mhmm..

[WesBob]

WesBob,

This is what I meant about the 'price corrections' in the market:

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/spa-m10.html

This new price is actually where the M-10 should be selling.

At $290, this gun makes sense. The M16s should be about $350-$375...

The only way my .25 Dominator was worth $499, even with two magazines, would have been if the seller had also thrown in a .22 CP2 Master Blaster in the deal..

I love the guns, just not the bumpy buyer interface paradigm, if'n ya catch me drift, mhmm..

Ok, yeah, I see the M10 picture on Mrodair's site but he no longer seems to be selling it on his storefront, at least I can't find it. Can't blame him really though for selling the Dominator for the same as Krale is, I mean, you're right it probably should be going for less, but with no other competetion, not much incentive I'd say. Anyway, I hear what you are saying, and appreciate your evaluation on these guns. Still wishing I could get one of those Varmint's myself, maybe will pick one up from overseas yet!

[.]

WesBob,

This is what I meant about the 'price corrections' in the market:

https://www.krale-schietsport.nl/en/spa-m10.html

This new price is actually where the M-10 should be selling.

At $290, this gun makes sense. The M16s should be about $350-$375...

The only way my .25 Dominator was worth $499, even with two magazines, would have been if the seller had also thrown in a .22 CP2 Master Blaster in the deal..

I love the guns, just not the bumpy buyer interface paradigm, if'n ya catch me drift, mhmm..

Ok, yeah, I see the M10 picture on Mrodair's site but he no longer seems to be selling it on his storefront, at least I can't find it. Can't blame him really though for selling the Dominator for the same as Krale is, I mean, you're right it probably should be going for less, but with no other competetion, not much incentive I'd say. Anyway, I hear what you are saying, and appreciate your evaluation on these guns. Still wishing I could get one of those Varmint's myself, maybe will pick one up from overseas yet!

It would be one thing to just put them up for sale at the inflated price, but it's another thing altogether to hype up the gun on a forum and pretend the price is awesome, when it is not actually awesome. One is a passive sale, the other, a 'promotion'..

[avator]

LOL..... yet they sold.... and still are.

[Wayne52]

The last time Mike sold the M10's was for $269.

[WesBob]

The last time Mike sold the M10's was for $269.

There you go, so he's actually selling them quite a bit cheaper than you can get any of the guns shipped from krale. I know I'd be buying from Mike if he would risk trying to get them over the border!

[.]

The last time Mike sold the M10's was for $269.

There you go, so he's actually selling them quite a bit cheaper than you can get any of the guns shipped from krale. I know I'd be buying from Mike if he would risk trying to get them over the border!

The prices are similar, but the conversion issue muddles things a bit.

I'ma let it rest.

We are all free to believe what we wanna believe, lol, as long as y'all're happy, I'm happy..

[smythsg]

I'm not so sure why, but it seems like the new has worn off the M16 very quickly, and SPA seems to be taking a bit of a verbal beating. I have no fight with all this, but for the record I have owned a P12 for almost two years and it holds air forever, is very accurate, and I have not had to do anything to it except adjust the hammer spring to shoot the particular pellet ft lb that I want.

My Dominator is in .25 cal, and the most serious issue that I have had with it is the pin that was coming lose on the bolt handle, that was fixed with blue loctite. Mine is holding air just fine so far. It does not produce the power I want, but what it does produce is consistant shots and great accuracy. Was it worth the money I paid? That is a pretty subjective question, that I can only answer by saying I have paid much more for an airgun and came away feeling less satisfied.

Are the SPA guns perfect, not by a long shot, but then neither were my Condor, my Escape, my BT65, my Bullboss, or most any of my other guns. I also never thought ANY of those guns should have cost me what I paid for them, but alas I bought them anyway.