Velocity -> HW30S .22 Caliber

[MartyMcFly]

     Hey Kirk, give the .22 GTO Ammo a try. My HW77K and TX200HC love this ammo. These are the only
.22 springers I own. The rest are .20 and .177 I've had GREAT ACCUARCY with this ammo and flat trajectory.

   Best of luck Brother Man

The H&N Baracuda Greens are just as good, they blow most lead ammo out of the water. I’ve had great results from them in my .22 97k and 95. Pricey though... Baracuda Light in lead are also prettty good.

-Marty

[Bayman]

I don't get the point of light 22 pellets. Unless you're plinking or paper shooting. If you're trying to get the velocity higher by reducing the weight near to a 177, just shoot the 177

[MartyMcFly]

I don't get the point of light 22 pellets. Unless you're plinking or paper shooting. If you're trying to get the velocity higher by reducing the weight near to a 177, just shoot the 177

I used to subscribe to the same philosophy, but I’ve found that .22 have nicer shot cycle characteristics in certain guns, the pellets are easier to handle and to see from far away. It’s not always about the BC, there are some qualitative characteristics that are important for some shooters.

-Marty

[fwbsport]

I don't get the point of light 22 pellets. Unless you're plinking or paper shooting. If you're trying to get the velocity higher by reducing the weight near to a 177, just shoot the 177

I used to subscribe to the same philosophy, but I’ve found that .22 have nicer shot cycle characteristics in certain guns, the pellets are easier to handle and to see from far away. It’s not always about the BC, there are some qualitative characteristics that are important for some shooters.

-Marty

I think a word for the .22 is "loyal" while the word for the .177 "accurate."

But when wind comes (any kind of wind) and distance the .22 is more loyal.

I've never been able to diss a .22.  I have gotten angry at the .177 for the above reasons along with the fact they are so small it's hard to handle them.

[Bayman]

I don't get the point of light 22 pellets. Unless you're plinking or paper shooting. If you're trying to get the velocity higher by reducing the weight near to a 177, just shoot the 177

I used to subscribe to the same philosophy, but I’ve found that .22 have nicer shot cycle characteristics in certain guns, the pellets are easier to handle and to see from far away. It’s not always about the BC, there are some qualitative characteristics that are important for some shooters.

-Marty

I think a word for the .22 is "loyal" while the word for the .177 "accurate."

But when wind comes (any kind of wind) and distance the .22 is more loyal.

I've never been able to diss a .22.  I have gotten angry at the .177 for the above reasons along with the fact they are so small it's hard to handle them.

Yeah I get that my point was more that using light weight 22 pellets negates any advantage the 22 has over the 177 except ease of handling and now realizing bigger holes to see. I'm not bashing it, just questioning the logic. Btw wind drift is not directly associated with weight. For the same power plant a heavier projectile can have more wind drift than a lighter one. The heavier projectile takes longer to get there and has more time for the wind to push on them. For instance most people think a 40gr 22mag has less wind drift than a 17 grain 17hmr. They both have the same parent cartridge and the tiny 17hmr that's supposed to be so willy nilly to the wind ACTUALLY has LESS wind drift (and drop) solely because it gets there much quicker. BC issues are complex and not the be all and end all. It's like vanilla and chocolate. Like what you like, but don't bleach your chocolate trying to make taste more like vanilla. It'll ruin your chocolate. Maybe just order vanilla once in while.

[wolverine]

I don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps,  or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profile.



I know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.

[Mark 611]

That's not a fair comparison! were only talking a .5mm vs thousands of LBS! and yes the .22cal pellets due buck the wind better then a light .177cal pellet!

[Bayman]

That's not a fair comparison! were only talking a .5mm vs thousands of LBS! and yes the .22cal pellets due buck the wind better then a light .177cal pellet!

You didn't read what I wrote correctly and or totally missed the point. I was talking about using light (as in alloy) 22 pellets. And they might not buck the wind any better than 177 with same power plant. Oh and the difference between 22 and 177 is a whole mm lol. Listen I'm not looking to stoke a debate. I already said to enjoy what you like. I was only questioning the logic of reducing the benefits of a 22 to emulate the speed of a 177. Different strokes for different folks, but there's no need to propagate inaccurate ballistics as I exampled earlier. Bottom line a Lightweight 22 is not going to do any better in the wind than a 177 that's going faster out of the same gun.

[Yogi]

I don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps,  or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profile

I know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.

A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.
On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about!

FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud.  Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath.  I shoot a 12fpe springer.

-Y

[Bayman]

I don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps,  or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profile

I know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.

A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.
On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about!

FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud.  Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath.  I shoot a 12fpe springer.

-Y

Sorry Yogi. It's only because you're a better shooter than they are. They're just making excuses for poor shooting. Truth is truth. There's set proven formulas that no matter how much you argue, they remain true. Heavier  projectiles generally have a better BC (less wind drift and drop) because of momentum. But the time to target is just as important. All things equal (initial energy) a 10 grain 177 pellet will have a better BC than a 10 grain alloy 22 pellet because of a smaller frontal area and greater sectional density. We can believe whatever we want but physics are not flexible.

[SpiralGroove]

Where do you guys get barrels from ? Might be kind of cool to try a .20 on my R7.

Hey Mac,
The extra barrels I had purchased were from a company in Canada that was either clearing out all the Weihrauch barrel inventory or was going out of business - can't remember.

You can buy many barrels from PA or Chambers, but the .20 caliber is not offered for many guns and of course is normally more. 

In 2016, when I bought all my Weihrauch guns from Krale, it had a pretty good relationship with the owner.  Maybe Krale could special order them if asked?

AOA gets .20 caliber HW's in most guns, hence Krale should be able to order the barrels.  I would send an email to find out .

[Bayman]

Where do you guys get barrels from ? Might be kind of cool to try a .20 on my R7.

I think a 20 cal R7 would be very cool. Especially with a Vortek kit in it. It would give a great little gun a little extra oomf with better trajectory than a 22. Best of both worlds.

The only downside I see is you have a limited choice of expensive pellets. If it was my only one and I shot one as often as shoot mine in 177cal, I'd need to get another job It would be a great addition to the ones I already have. Hmmmm?

[Mark 611]

OOP's sorry Ron if I misunderstood, but I also think an 11gn .22cal would still be a better choice then using a 10.5gn .177cal pellet moving that same velocity

[mac]

Thank you Kirk. I check with Krale  just to see but Bayman makes a good point because I do shoot it quite a bit.

[Bayman]

Thank you Kirk. I check with Krale  just to see but Bayman makes a good point because I do shoot it quite a bit.

I've been desperately trying to email Dennis at Krale for a week and I keep getting getting a mail not delivered notification. Something about them over their quota?? Please let me know if you get through to them. I tried calling them but I'm having issues with the international calling codes.

[Bayman]

OOP's sorry Ron if I misunderstood, but I also think an 11gn .22cal would still be a better choice then using a 10.5gn .177cal pellet moving that same velocity

Certainly would be easier to handle and see.   

[SpiralGroove]

Thank you Kirk. I check with Krale  just to see but Bayman makes a good point because I do shoot it quite a bit.

Yeah, for plinking out to 30 yards, you cant beat the .177 .
What I've found is that with more powerful power plants, the .20 caliber can deliver excellent accuracy at much longer ranges vs. .177 cal. - when you realize what you can have, an additional $5 on pellets is just fine .  My Longer range shooting suggests a .20 caliber revival is in order .

[Yogi]

I don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps,  or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profile

I know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.

A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.
On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about!

FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud.  Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath.  I shoot a 12fpe springer.

-Y

Sorry Yogi. It's only because you're a better shooter than they are. They're just making excuses for poor shooting. Truth is truth. There's set proven formulas that no matter how much you argue, they remain true. Heavier  projectiles generally have a better BC (less wind drift and drop) because of momentum. But the time to target is just as important. All things equal (initial energy) a 10 grain 177 pellet will have a better BC than a 10 grain alloy 22 pellet because of a smaller frontal area and greater sectional density. We can believe whatever we want but physics are not flexible.

Well Ron,

I expect that I am shooting at 50 yards and they are shooting at 75-100 yards has something to do with it.

As I understand BC it is only a function of retained momentum at various distances.  Anyway, I will ask the fellow for the link and post it here.  The wind drift calculation is only sort of correlated.

-Y

[Bayman]

Thank you Kirk. I check with Krale  just to see but Bayman makes a good point because I do shoot it quite a bit.

Yeah, for plinking out to 30 yards, you cant beat the .177 .
What I've found is that with more powerful power plants, the .20 caliber can deliver excellent accuracy at much longer ranges vs. .177 cal. - when you realize what you can have, an additional $5 on pellets is just fine .  My Longer range shooting suggests a .20 caliber revival is in order .

I agree. I like the idea of 20 caliber for mid to high power springers. I'm excited to finally get my 20 cal RX1 in order. I was shooting spinners with that and my 177 Hw50 at 108 yards. Both barely move the spinners but there's a big audible difference in the hit.

[Bayman]

I don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps,  or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profile

I know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.

A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.
On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about!

FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud.  Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath.  I shoot a 12fpe springer.

-Y

Sorry Yogi. It's only because you're a better shooter than they are. They're just making excuses for poor shooting. Truth is truth. There's set proven formulas that no matter how much you argue, they remain true. Heavier  projectiles generally have a better BC (less wind drift and drop) because of momentum. But the time to target is just as important. All things equal (initial energy) a 10 grain 177 pellet will have a better BC than a 10 grain alloy 22 pellet because of a smaller frontal area and greater sectional density. We can believe whatever we want but physics are not flexible.

Well Ron,

I expect that I am shooting at 50 yards and they are shooting at 75-100 yards has something to do with it.

As I understand BC it is only a function of retained momentum at various distances.  Anyway, I will ask the fellow for the link and post it here.  The wind drift calculation is only sort of correlated.

-Y

Yeah Yogi I thought you were talking over the same distance. You're talking about apples and oranges now. That said, even at their much higher muzzle velocity their stuff is likely in the air twice as long as yours because of the greater distance and the normal rapid deceleration of pellets. Their velocity at target may not be different than yours.
I look forward to seeing that link you're talking about.