Now if we are discussing what you just prefer, that is different.If we are discussing what gives you more confidence, also different.As long as I have been a member if this forum, the .177/.22 debate has only gotten deeper! And bigger calibers too. Whatever puts a smile on your face. If I had my druthers I would shoot an HW 95 in all four calibers!
The wind argument is blasphemy! Top .177 domes squash .22 pellets in the wind, at this power level.
Quote from: Bayman on September 06, 2019, 08:44:44 PMQuote from: Yogi on September 06, 2019, 08:21:12 PMQuote from: wolverine on September 06, 2019, 03:54:33 PMI don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps, or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profileI know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about! FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud. Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath. I shoot a 12fpe springer. -YSorry Yogi. It's only because you're a better shooter than they are. They're just making excuses for poor shooting. Truth is truth. There's set proven formulas that no matter how much you argue, they remain true. Heavier projectiles generally have a better BC (less wind drift and drop) because of momentum. But the time to target is just as important. All things equal (initial energy) a 10 grain 177 pellet will have a better BC than a 10 grain alloy 22 pellet because of a smaller frontal area and greater sectional density. We can believe whatever we want but physics are not flexible.Well Ron,I expect that I am shooting at 50 yards and they are shooting at 75-100 yards has something to do with it. As I understand BC it is only a function of retained momentum at various distances. Anyway, I will ask the fellow for the link and post it here. The wind drift calculation is only sort of correlated
Quote from: Yogi on September 06, 2019, 08:21:12 PMQuote from: wolverine on September 06, 2019, 03:54:33 PMI don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps, or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profileI know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about! FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud. Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath. I shoot a 12fpe springer. -YSorry Yogi. It's only because you're a better shooter than they are. They're just making excuses for poor shooting. Truth is truth. There's set proven formulas that no matter how much you argue, they remain true. Heavier projectiles generally have a better BC (less wind drift and drop) because of momentum. But the time to target is just as important. All things equal (initial energy) a 10 grain 177 pellet will have a better BC than a 10 grain alloy 22 pellet because of a smaller frontal area and greater sectional density. We can believe whatever we want but physics are not flexible.
Quote from: wolverine on September 06, 2019, 03:54:33 PMI don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps, or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profileI know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.A guy at the range that I shoot at says that he saw an article that PROVED that slower moving pellets are LESS effected by wind than faster moving pellets.On other airgun topics he knows what he is talking about! FWIW-When the wind is blowing at more than 10 mph at the range, the 20-25fpe PCP guys are cursing out loud. Meanwhile, I am only muttering under my breath. I shoot a 12fpe springer. -Y
I don't know anything about ballistics, but it seems to me a .177 travelling at 700fps would drift less than a .22 of the same weight and shape travelling at 600fps, or even the same fps because the .177 has smaller profileI know I'd rather drive a mini cooper in a high wind area rather than a motorhome.
Hey Bob or Lloyd,We've got an interesting discussion going over on the German Gate, dealing with pellet wind drift.We're trying to determine whether a regular domed pellet would experience more or less wind drift when comparing standard .177 & .22 caliber pellets - using the same power plant.For sake of arguments, let's say we have a OEM HW95, shooting .177 cal. at 860 fps while it's .22 counterpart goes 650 fps.How can Chairgun be doped to calculate this?Do you have any simple graphs which tell the story?My basic thought was the higher ballistic coefficient pellet (.22) would experience less drift from the same crosswind. However, does the longer .22 pellet's flight time negate the ballistic coefficient advantage? Any thoughts or graphics would be appreciated ,Kirk
The BC is the primary consideration in wind drift.... higher velocity may, in fact, hurt.... particularly if over 900 fps.... because the drag increases so quickly in the Transonic region (Mach 0.8-1.2)…. You can do a quick confirmation of this with Chairgun…. My article on wind drift in HAM covers this in detail....https://hardairmagazine.com/ham-columns/the-external-ballistics-of-diabolo-pellets/For the velocities you chose, and assuming JSB Express pellets (7.8 gr.in .177 and 14.3 gr. in .22 cal)…. Chairgun calculates a 50 yd. drift for the .177 at 860 fps of 5.5 in.... and for the .22 cal at 650 fps it is 4.65 in.... so a 15% edge in favour of the .22 cal.... The .177 is right in the velocity "sweet spot" at 50 yards, but the .22 cal would benefit from being driven faster.... At 830 fps the drift would drop to 4.09 in.... At equal velocity, the drift is basically inversely proportional to the BC....Bob
Oh and surely at the top end of power the .177 is going to get blown away in comparison, literally. But in the range of 6-8 fpe energy, the .177 will prove a winner. In retained energy as well as wind and trajectory.Edit- assuming quality domes of course
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