How do we get Crosman to listen to us?

[45Bravo]

Didn't they learn anything from the Rogue?

The Bulldog made a big splash when it first came out, but it hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire since then.

I am waiting for Crosman to take the Innards of the Bulldog,
take it out of the cheap plastic starship trooper shell.

Make it in .25 &.30 caliber in addition to the existing .357.
And Market it towards AIRGUNNERS not the powder burner guys. 

The mechanics of the Bulldog are very good, it has great potential in other calibers with minimal (in my opinion) changes.

Not everyone wants a .357 or larger airgun that gets 5-10 shots before topping off.,

With so few states allowing deer/hog hunting with airguns (the numbers are growing slowly)
 it would seem logical, to normal people, to offer more calibers favorable for small game.

Thereby making more appealing to a broader base of customers.

[nervoustrigger]

Well, the good news is they are more interested in releasing new products than they are in addressing longstanding quality issues in their existing products, so you just may get your wish 

[LAalex]

Well, the good news is they are more interested in releasing new products than they are in addressing longstanding quality issues in their existing products, so you just may get your wish 

+1

[Bicycleman]

We vote with our dollars.  There is no 2016 Edsel.

[uglymike]

We vote with our dollars.  There is no 2016 Edsel.

+1  well said, let your wallet do the talking.

[StevenG]

As a large producer the airgun hobbyist is a very small slice of their target market.

[Booger]

Well, the good news is they are more interested in releasing new products than they are in addressing longstanding quality issues in their existing products, so you just may get your wish 

When you bring up quality issues they report you. While I will not flame them I will state I am not happy with the quality of any of the rifles I bought from them with the exception of the .25 MROD. Both my .177 & .22 had barrel problems to begin with (my .22 was fixed before I ever shot it).

[wahoowad]

They "listen" to customers but do what shareholders and board members say. If they actually listened to customers they would be the US equivalent of Air Arms and JSB and producing world class equipment.

I just don't ever see them reverting from low end mass-produced products to anything of higher quality.

[StevenG]

They "listen" to customers but do what shareholders and board members say. If they actually listened to customers they would be the US equivalent of Air Arms and JSB and producing world class equipment.

I just don't ever see them reverting from low end mass-produced products to anything of higher quality.

Do you actually think the majority of crosman customers want that?

I bet a lot more customers buy b19 variants at Wally world than folks who even know who AA and JSB are.

[customcutter]

You also have to remember that Air Arms doesn't compete with conventional firearms in their home market.  If the folks their want to shoot they have to purchase air guns.  Also if you have been on the UK night vision forum you know that they have a lot of pesting opportunities from rats to rabbits to foxes, and they are willing to pay to play.

I'm 62 years old and until this last year, I didn't know that high end or PCP air guns existed.  If you had told me a year ago that I would spend 2K on 2 AG and tanks I would have told you that you were nuts.  Most people are not "hobbyist", and are not going to spend much over $100 for an air gun until they are educated about the sport.

Just my .02

But, yes I learned a long time ago to let my wallet do my talking.  If businesses don't want to listen I take my business else where.

[nervoustrigger]

In the context of the original question--how to get Crosman to listen to us--it is in fact the airgun hobbyist we're talking about.  So should we just accept that Crosman doesn't place a great deal of importance on our market segment?  Because I'll be honest, I don't understand their priorities.  If it's all about selling tons of mediocre stuff from Walmart shelves, why does the Crosman Custom Shop continue to exist?  If that's not for the hobbyist segment, I don't know what is.  Similarly, if it's all about the volume products, why mess around with fringe products like the Bulldog and Airbow?

[customcutter]

Actually I've considered a Bulldog, but it's on the back burner for now.  I almost bought one a few months ago when they first started selling for $700.  Right now I need to re-supply the wallet, before I can justify any other purchases. 

The thing that stopped me from making the purchase was that I found several complaints about air leaks on them, so that's my story and I'm sticking too it. 

I've got a sticker on my MC helmet that says "I was born broke, and I still have most of it left."  By nature (my upbringing) I'm frugal (OK cheap), I don't make impulse purchases and I try to get the best value for my money that I can.  I probably did 5 weeks of research, 4-6 hours a day, before deciding to buy a refurbished BT65 in .25 cal my first AG just a few months ago.  I didn't do that until I found a :45 SCBA on Ebay with 4 years of life left and free shipping for $100.  I finally found a video by SouthernGunner on Youtube that explained used SCBA's where to buy cheap fill adapters, etc.  Before I was looking at spending more on support equipment than on the actual gun.

I think Crosman and the other Mfg's need to do a better job of educating the public about the high end side of the hobby.  Also Crosman needs to look at what Hatsan, Snowpeak, and others are doing in the market.  Yes, I just bought a used P-12, a light weight bullpup, and my 2nd AG.

[EMrider]

I assume that Crosman knows how to run it's business far better than any of us on the GTA.

Lots of other airgun companies have gone away, yet Crosman remains. 

My Crosman guns have performed quite well.  Price adjusted, they are an outstanding value.

Sure, if I were in charge, some things would be done differently, but that's life.

R

[45Bravo]

I understand them selling tens of thousands of cheap Chinese or Turkish made guns off the Walmart shelves.

But if you are having a product that you have invested tens of thousands of dollars in the development of, (the Bulldog) and its languishing in sales try something different.

They did put a pencil barrel on it and make it an arrow gun, nice try, but it's still aimed at the same crowd that is letting it languish in sales. (The big game powder burner crowd that now has 2 choices to hunt deer with, but no legal season.

So change the barrel, tune the system for shot count, and try a different direction.


The Airbow will make a hit with handicap hunters that are unable to pull a compound bow, or the weight and effort of a crossbow.

But they aren't marketing it toward them.
The ADA has the power and pull to get the laws passed on behalf of the disabled if they were to take up their cause.

They did get the handicapped the ability to use crossbows which is great.

[StevenG]

I have been unfair to Crosman in this thread.

It is a large company and in really thinking about it I have realized that I have been speaking about as if it was one large organism. In fact like all companies of any real size they without a doubt have groups of employees each with their own ideas on how to best meet market demands. Someone pushed for the custom shop, another made the bulldog happen while others created the NP2 line, at the same time they have kept up with their largest market budget airguns.

I think they are listening, but also listening to a million other voices and trying to make as many of those happy as possible.

AA and JSB focus on one major thing.  AA makes high end springers, for the most part. JSB makes great pellets, including those with the AA label on the tin. Crosman makes the cardboard box premiers and then loads of cheaper pellets, they sell springers, multipumps and PCPs. They are trying to be many things to many people and I lost sight of that.

If anyone from Crosman ever reads this, build a halo gun. GM has the Vette, Ford has the GT, you need one too. Let price be no object and show how it can be done when you turn the engineers loose. Itself it will get very few sales but by showing what you can do at your best it will build the brand.

[Geoff]

 I wonder why should crosman spend a boatload of money making a gun only very few would actually pay for ?

the bottom line for any for-profit corporation is to make money and that is what they try to do.

if you want a better built and more expensive rifle, they are out there .. go buy one

[limbshaker]

They are making plenty of money selling stuff  at Academy, WalMart, etc....

Those are the customers that matter to them, because they can sell them anything by writing their sales pitch on the box. "1200fps! Jim Shockey uses one! We shot an elephant with a .177! Steel springs not so good, buy our gas ram guns!" You get the picture...

Us airgun-educated folks know what we want, what we are actually buying, what we can get for our money elsewhere, and what to realistically expect out of it. If they had a showroom, they would hate to see us coming and shrug us off as quickly as possible.

"We" are nothing more than a fart in a stiff breeze to Crosman. 

 

[Booger]

if you want a better built and more expensive rifle, they are out there .. go buy one

I did, I own 2 Daystates and am looking at a 3rd one. As for spring piston I own a D34 & nitro piston a Hatsan 95.

[jward681]

This thread appears to be heading in the direction most have against Crosman in recent memory.....

If we all knew how to run a multimillion dollar corporations then we'd have a legitimate leg to stand on.

Sure Crosman has had issues and to a point continues to do so and I'd bet will always as any other large volume manufacturer does.....heck even the smaller companies can't spit out a perfect product 100% of the time.  Molds and machines suffer wear and tear with each cycle theyou got through and it means thatit will reach a point where some bad samples are made and unless each and every single part is inspected a few will be missed and make it to market. This is one area Crosman excels in that they have above average customer service and generally will work with people to correct the problem....

We could be a much louder voice of we didn't just complain openly but actually came to the table with concerns and heck maybe even an idea or 2 to suggest ways to fix those areas instead threads like these turn into a bashing of a company that opens the option for many who can't afford to get high end rifles to get into this sport. Those that enjoy it and want to pursue advancing usually do but I'll leave it at this....who's first AG experiences started with the likes of Daystate or Ait Arms?  My money is that Crosman, Daisy, Benjamin and others were the basis for many of us to enter this great hobby....

I'm done...soapbox returned to rightful spot now let's get things back on track...

John

[DOKF]

I wonder why should crosman spend a boatload of money making a gun only very few would actually pay for ?

the bottom line for any for-profit corporation is to make money and that is what they try to do.

if you want a better built and more expensive rifle, they are out there .. go buy one

I bet a higher percentage of American airgunners have a high end gun from Europe, than general American have a high end car (Ferrari, Lambo) from Europe.  How many American Airgunners have a 'vette or Harley (I'm actually curious), and would support an American high end air gun from the GM of air guns if such a beast were available?

.