And another one bites the dust. RIP Optisan Cobra. Victim of my 36 scope killer!

[jungleexplorer]

Well, after less then a year and 1000 pellets, my RWS 36 has destroyed yet another "Springer rated scope"  My 36 has destroyed every single scope that has ever been on it.  My friend who owns and operates an air gun store promised that my 36 could not break an Optisan.  Well, when I take it back to him and shake it and he hears the glass rattling around inside, guess who is going to have mud in his eye?  Not that I am happy about.  I am fit to cry.  I really, really liked this Optisan scope.  I had a Leipers UTG before this Optisan that did not last a week; so much for the Leipers TRUE STRENGTH PLATFORM. Did not last 100 pellets in my 36.

I don't know where to turn.  At this point, I don't believe there a scope out that can last on a springer.  I mean, my 36 is not even a magnum.   To the credit of this Optisan, it has lasted far longer then any other scope on my RWS 36.  But if it will only last through a couple of tins of JBS pellets, it is not worth the $130 it cost.  I mean I can go through a whole tin of 500 pellets in a a couple of target shooting sessions. 

[wilsonj1018]

I'd be willing to bet you have a bit of a sealing issue and piston slam is killing you're scopes....
Josh

[robertr]

 Same thing happenned to my Cobra, returned it and the same thing happenned again but instead of returning it again I took it apart to see what went wrong. Once I had it apart I found the lock down ring for the lens on the inner tube had come loose. I snugged it back up good and reassembled it. I have it on my D350 Magnum right now and have shot over a thousand rounds since my repair. Only thing I have worry about is fogging but I don't usually shoot in those conditions anyway.

[jungleexplorer]

I'd be willing to bet you have a bit of a sealing issue and piston slam is killing you're scopes....
Josh

How can I tell if what you are saying is true?  My gun is old, but it still shoots like new.  I get 815 FPS with a JBS 8.44 gr pellet and faster fps with lighter pellets.  I thought about getting it tuned, but all my research showed that it is shooting right at where it should be.  I have let more experienced air gunners then me shoot it and they seemed to think that it does not have a harder then normal recoil, in fact, most thought it operated like butter compared to newer stock 34s.  I mean, you might very well be right, but I need a way to test it before I mess with it.  It is tack driver as it it is and I shot a 174 point GTA 30 yard target this morning, and that was with the scope malfunctioning.  I had some real flyers on the target and at first I thought it was me, but I after more testing and trying to zero the scope, I figured out that it was broken. When I say broken, I mean, something is literally rattling around inside it. Bottom line, is this gun has broken scopes ever since it was brand new.  I stopped putting scope on it for many years because of this, but my eyesight is at such a point that I have to have a scope now.

Not a bad shoot for a springer with a broken scope, but normally I could have put every one of these pellets in the 10 with maybe one or two in the 9 zone.

 

[wilsonj1018]

How consistent is the velocity? I just find it odd, I've never killed a scope on a springer other than a barska even on guns significantly harsher with less than great scopes.

[jungleexplorer]

How consistent is the velocity? I just find it odd, I've never killed a scope on a springer other than a barska even on guns significantly harsher with less than great scopes.

I shot ten JBS exact 8.44gr pellets over a chrony today and the spread was from 805 to 818.  Most were in the 810 to 815 range. 

[wilsonj1018]

That sounds pretty healthy. Maybe you just have bad luck.

[jungleexplorer]

Yeah, I know! Right?  This is what I am talking about.  The gun is a dream to cock.  It drives nails at 30 yards (when the scope is not broken).  It does not seem overly harsh in the recoil department (and that is not my opinion alone. Other experts have said this as well).  The gun is 29 years old and still looks like it is new, so you know I don't abuse it and I care for it properly.  But something has to be wrong, for it to break some of the best magnum rated springer scopes on the market.

[mpbby]

What do you think about those mounts that the manufactures say they would dampen the recoil? Sportsmatch DM60? Diana Bullseye ZR?

[jungleexplorer]

Don't much about them.  Never heard of them before now.  The Sportsman is a dovetail and I would not trust it on my gun.  I like the look of the Bullseye ZR, but it looks like it is out of production (neither PA or Amazon has them) and I can't find a single review for it anywhere.

[nced]

How consistent is the velocity? I just find it odd, I've never killed a scope on a springer other than a barska even on guns significantly harsher with less than great scopes.

I shot ten JBS exact 8.44gr pellets over a chrony today and the spread was from 805 to 818.  Most were in the 810 to 815 range. 

The .177 HW95 I bought is rated at "only" 950fps and while velocities with "real weight pellets" have never been as high as the factory rating I still got 880fps from 7.9 grain pellets. I noticed that a .177 RWS36 is factory rated at 1000fps so I would expect a lot more velocity than 805-818 if the sealing is correct and the spring isn't sagged or broken.

I have needed to have warranty work done on scopes mounted to my .177 R9 shooting at about 14fpe but that was only after a couple 10s of thousands of shots. I still have a cheap $80 4-16x40 Adventure Class Center Point scope that has endured thousands of shots and even a drop on the top turret to a concrete pad when my R9 fell from my cross sticks (or was knocked off) at a National Field Target match in Heflin, AL a few years ago. The poi shifted 3" at 30 yards from the impact but the scope still performed well after re-zeroing. A pics of the scarred up Center point turret...........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
I'm thinking the suggestion about a poorly sealing piston seal might need some investigation.

Anywhoo.....the recoil of my .177 HW95 and R9 is sufficient to cause a BKL one piece mount to slide on the dovetails without some "special prepping" but my scopes still hold up for several years and quite a few thousand shots before needing warranty work.
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Matter of fact, I recently bought a 3-12x44 UTG Compact scope with optional sidewheel for a relatively cheap $130 and it's being put through a "reliability test" right now. So far it's survived a few hundred shots but I won't have a true verdict till about a year and a case of CPLs later (5000 shots).


 

[jungleexplorer]

I did a thorough study of the RWS 36 last year researching this exact question; What is the true FPS of the 36 (as opposed to the Factory claim of 1000 FPS).  I started a thread dedicated to this question exclusively.  After countless post from other owners of the 36s and 34s (same power plant), it was determined that my gun is shooting at or above the the FPS of the the stock 36s and 34s.  I have owned this gun from brand new.  I ordered it straight from West Germany in 1988.  It shoots as good today as the day I bought it.  If it has lost power, I can't tell it, and if it has, then it was more powerful then most other 36s that were made to start with.

I agree that there has to be something wrong, but before I go messing with a reliably working precision shooting rifle, I need more then just a guess to go on.  This gun brings home diner many nights for me.

A couple of years ago I killed a coyote with it.  Here is video that was caught by a stroke of luck on a deer camera.

[wilsonj1018]

T01 d34s typically between 11.5-13 fpe, with the amount of use you put through hrs it's in excellent shape power wise.

[jungleexplorer]

Here some FPE stats for my gun last time I tested it.

Crosman Copperhead Pointed 7.9gr FPE results at 863 FPS.

Muzzle       20 yards    30 yards    50 yards
  13.1            9.9            8.6             6.7




JSB Match Diabolo Exact .177 Cal, 8.44gr FPE results at 815 FPS.

Muzzle     20 yards     30 yards     50 yards
 12.4          9.9              8.8             7.1

[wilsonj1018]

That's what I'm saying, for a t01 gun it's very healthy, doesn't seem to have a sealing issue from your numbers. when you zero a scope how close is it to centered, does the gun have a lot of droop perhaps enough to where you are coming close to max out elevation?

[jungleexplorer]

It has no droop that I can tell.  Scopes usually take very little adjustment to zero when first installed.  Certainly no where near maxing them out.  This Optisan scope took very little to zero and it held zero for almost 1000 pellets before breaking.  I went through this whole ordeal last year when the scope broke a Leipers UTG 3X9 scope in the first week.  I went through the gambit of questions, "Is it the gun?", "is it the shooter?"  "Is it just bad luck?".  In the end, and after answering many questions, the gun and the shooter was ruled out as the culprit, and it was blamed on the luck of the draw.  After getting the Optisan scope, I thought so as well until it broke yesterday.  Now I am back at square one with the original question (Is it the gun?).   The question is, how can this be shooting as good as it is and have something wrong with it?  Also, what could be going so wrong with the gun that it breaks scope rated for magnum springers and yet when experienced springer shooters shoot the gun, they feel the gun has less recoil them most other guns in the same class?

At this point, I don't know the answer to either of these questions.  What I do know is that it has always killed scopes from the day it was brand new.  So what is happening now, is nothing new.  I have put many scopes on it (Bushnell, Tasco, Simmons) over the last 27 years and it has broken every one, most in short order.  This Optisan far out lasted any other scope that has been on the gun.  If Optisan will honor it's warranty and replace, maybe the next one will last.  If not, I don't know what I will do.  Maybe I'll just have to send it off to an expert to have it tuned and hope it comes back the precision shooting machine it is now.

[Methuselah]

The only way to kill a scope by shooting an airgun is recoil, right?

Check the screw on the underside that holds the fork bracket for the two front stock screws.  Since it dances like Fred Estare I kinda doubt that's your problem, but at this point it's time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.  It's excessive vibration, and you are going to have to hunt down the source.

I won't start rattling off other possible sources because if you start hunting, you WILL find them.  Just check everything for fit.  Everything, even the pins...

The alternative is a bullet proof springer rated scope, and for the price of an SWFA you can probably get another gun AND have it tuned.

[nced]

The only way to kill a scope by shooting an airgun is recoil, right?

Check the screw on the underside that holds the fork bracket for the two front stock screws.  Since it dances like Fred Estare I kinda doubt that's your problem, but at this point it's time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.  It's excessive vibration, and you are going to have to hunt down the source.

I won't start rattling off other possible sources because if you start hunting, you WILL find them.  Just check everything for fit.  Everything, even the pins...

The alternative is a bullet proof springer rated scope, and for the price of an SWFA you can probably get another gun AND have it tuned.

I do wonder if the shock of relatching a break barrel with excessive force could shock the scope more than the shot cycle. The reason I mention this is that my HW95 and R9s have a wedge shaped  barrel latching detent with a stout spring and it's rather easy to have the barrel "snap real smartly" when relatching if care isn't used, however, I really I don't know if the RWS "ball detent barrel latch system" has the same "feature". Anywhoo....I take care when relatching my break barrels in as softly as practical. Just commenting I do have a notion that there is more going on to trash a scope on a break barrel than the two way recoil and vibration or untuned internals.

The spring loaded detent chisels of my HW95 and R9........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
The stock mounting and fixed detent chisel bracket of my hw95.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

[jungleexplorer]

The only way to kill a scope by shooting an airgun is recoil, right?

Check the screw on the underside that holds the fork bracket for the two front stock screws.  Since it dances like Fred Estare I kinda doubt that's your problem, but at this point it's time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.  It's excessive vibration, and you are going to have to hunt down the source.

I won't start rattling off other possible sources because if you start hunting, you WILL find them.  Just check everything for fit.  Everything, even the pins...

The alternative is a bullet proof springer rated scope, and for the price of an SWFA you can probably get another gun AND have it tuned.

The screw you are talking about it snug as a bug in a rug.

The only way to kill a scope by shooting an airgun is recoil, right?

Check the screw on the underside that holds the fork bracket for the two front stock screws.  Since it dances like Fred Estare I kinda doubt that's your problem, but at this point it's time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.  It's excessive vibration, and you are going to have to hunt down the source.

I won't start rattling off other possible sources because if you start hunting, you WILL find them.  Just check everything for fit.  Everything, even the pins...

The alternative is a bullet proof springer rated scope, and for the price of an SWFA you can probably get another gun AND have it tuned.

I do wonder if the shock of relatching a break barrel with excessive force could shock the scope more than the shot cycle. The reason I mention this is that my HW95 and R9s have a wedge shaped  barrel latching detent with a stout spring and it's rather easy to have the barrel "snap real smartly" when relatching if care isn't used, however, I really I don't know if the RWS "ball detent barrel latch system" has the same "feature". Anywhoo....I take care when relatching my break barrels in as softly as practical. Just commenting I do have a notion that there is more going on to trash a scope on a break barrel than the two way recoil and vibration or untuned internals.

The spring loaded detent chisels of my HW95 and R9........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
The stock mounting and fixed detent chisel bracket of my hw95.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

My 36 has ball bearing (not a dent chisel)  and is a smooth as butter to cock. 

[robertr]

Can you take a pic of the cylinder catch the ball rides over? If it has a groove worn into it, will cause barrel lockup problems. No groove your good.