I think it is a myth pending around on forums.
Quote from: Underdog on February 08, 2016, 05:09:42 PMWhen I first got into airguns, one of the first things I read was over on CharlieDaTuna's website about using pellets no larger than about 8 grains because it can damage your spring.Is this true? I've just ordered a HW95 from AoA, with a box of 10.65 grain Baracuda Match H&N pellets. Maybe I should have stayed below 8 grains?What do you think?One aspect about springers that few people realize is that a well adjusted springer will always give you peak Muzzle Energy with the best pellet for the power plant.Hector Medina
When I first got into airguns, one of the first things I read was over on CharlieDaTuna's website about using pellets no larger than about 8 grains because it can damage your spring.Is this true? I've just ordered a HW95 from AoA, with a box of 10.65 grain Baracuda Match H&N pellets. Maybe I should have stayed below 8 grains?What do you think?
Quote from: Yrok on February 08, 2016, 09:16:41 PMCan pellets be too heavy for a particular springer? YES! Can pellets be too light for a particular springer?YES!Can this damage the springer?YES!How long do you want YOUR springer and/or scope to last and shoot accurately?YOUR CHOICE!If I read this answer I'm almost afraid to even use my springer at all LOL I go for Benjihunter's answer: Use the pellets that gives you best accuracy.And the Baracuda's are fine...
Can pellets be too heavy for a particular springer? YES! Can pellets be too light for a particular springer?YES!Can this damage the springer?YES!How long do you want YOUR springer and/or scope to last and shoot accurately?YOUR CHOICE!
Quote from: Underdog on February 08, 2016, 05:09:42 PMWhen I first got into airguns, one of the first things I read was over on CharlieDaTuna's website about using pellets no larger than about 8 grains because it can damage your spring.Is this true? I've just ordered a HW95 from AoA, with a box of 10.65 grain Baracuda Match H&N pellets. Maybe I should have stayed below 8 grains?What do you think?Jim;Damage is a relative term.All things have lives. Springs included.Back in the days when people thought that springs had to last a generation (or more), to have to replace a broken spring after 7,000 rounds was considered "damage".In this current day and age of printer cartridges and toners, we have become accustomed to the idea of things having finite lives.A very heavy pellet will make the piston rebound, yes, but that is not the problem. The problem is that in rebounding, the piston compresses the spring, which then distends again. Extreme cases can do this three times per shot. At three cycles per shot, fatigue sets into the steel much faster than when you use the spring one cycle per shot.So, when a spring dies after 2,500 rounds of heavy pellet usage, people say your spring got "damaged".Too light a pellet and what suffers are your seals. The seals take the brunt of decelerating the piston at the end of its travel, and that energy has to go somewhere. USUALLY, it goes to destroy the seals.One aspect about springers that few people realize is that a well adjusted springer will always give you peak Muzzle Energy with the best pellet for the power plant.Some power plants are highly strung instead of being finely tuned and this makes them pellet finicky. Some power plants look for maximum muzzle velocity and then disregard the effect of excessive MV in a pellet's ballistics. BUT, for some shooters, the ONLY solution to taming down the beast is using a heavy pellet. The heavy pellet will give you lower velocity and, sometimes that improves the accuracy.As you gain experience, you will learn to LISTEN to your rifle. The sounds (and even better, the LACK thereof), usually can tell you a lot of how your gun is performing and if you can improve it.A few heavy pellets will not hurt any quality spring, so test to your heart's content. When you find a pellet that the gun likes, is when the fun starts.IN GENERAL, small compression chambers with smallish pistons (like the HW's and the AA's) work their best with pellets in the region of 8 to 9 grains in 0.177" cal. but all rifles are a law unto their own, so test. Test everything, from 7.33's to 10.5'sAlso check to see if your particular barrel likes the pellets lubed (and with what) or not.HTH and keep us posted.Hector Medina
What is the displacement of a typical springer cylinder-strokediameterOff top of your heads-?preloaded length of typical springer spring? unpreloaded lengthThanksCharlie
Is spring rebound, with too heavy of a pellet, a theoretical beast or is it factual? I just cannot see how to heavy of a pellet can rebound the spring, and if it actually could do so, how it could rebound it more than once. It's rather easy to test this by blocking off the compression chamber hole and shooting the spring, and this would be the WORST case scenario (heaviest pellet in the world). I can see the spring maybe rebound once slightly under these extreme (non-real world) circumstances, but i think it would be a rather shor rebound to the tune of 1/4-1/2" at most. In any other scenario where the pellet actually can move even a little bit under spring pressure, it would not cause any rebound, at least not in my head and using my logic, so again i ask, has this rebound theory been tested and proven or does it only remain theoretical?
I like Hectors reply. In my experience, listening to your springer as it fires tells you a lot. I have settled on JSB/AA 8.4 gr for my RWS 34. If I use 7.3 gr JSB/AA pellets, I hear a ring at the end of the shot cycle (piston hitting the cylinder). If I shoot AA/JSB 10.3 gr, I hear more buzz (spring bounce). In either case (7.3 and 10.3 gr), the accuracy is not quite as good as the accuracy I get with the 8.4 gr pellet.I also find that how tightly the pellet fits into the breach also is a factor: I can shoot Crosman 7.4 gr premiers and not get a ring in the gun, and get decent groups. The problem with shooting these tight pellets is getting consistent seating in the breach (which can be a bit of a hassle, even with a pellet seating tool). Since the JSB/AA 8.4 gr pellets seat nicely and consistently in the breach, I shoot them all the time.Hope you find your best pellet. Straight shooting!
Always enjoy your posts, especially when you agree with me.
Quote from: stija on February 09, 2016, 01:11:13 PMIs spring rebound, with too heavy of a pellet, a theoretical beast or is it factual? I just cannot see how to heavy of a pellet can rebound the spring, and if it actually could do so, how it could rebound it more than once. It's rather easy to test this by blocking off the compression chamber hole and shooting the spring, and this would be the WORST case scenario (heaviest pellet in the world). I can see the spring maybe rebound once slightly under these extreme (non-real world) circumstances, but i think it would be a rather shor rebound to the tune of 1/4-1/2" at most. In any other scenario where the pellet actually can move even a little bit under spring pressure, it would not cause any rebound, at least not in my head and using my logic, so again i ask, has this rebound theory been tested and proven or does it only remain theoretical?STIJA:It all depends on who and what you are willing to believe.SOME rifles have APPRECIABLE piston rebound under certain conditions, like the Walther LGU when the TopHat is a loose fit inside the piston. Others you appreciate the rebound in the way the efficiency of the system is affected by very heavy pellets. In others you can actually SEE the rebound when the shot cycle is filmed in high speed video.If you are handy with Maths and Differential Equations, I would suggest you read Domingo Tavella's paper about Internal Ballistics of the Spring Piston Airgun:https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274638905_Internal_Ballistics_of_Spring_Piston_Airguns Some of the equations are a little complicated, but read the text and try to understand the discretization process that gets you a mathematical model that yields not only lots of information, but also great insights on where the guns can be improved.If you don't want to believe the serious people that write about this, or the maths involved, then I guess that for you it will always stay in the realm of theory.JMHOHM
An even better read is the followup paper that details more about bounce, including spring reverb and vibration showing how a shockwave is sent back along the spring when the piston collides at the chamber end. Good pictograms from the simulation studies.
If you have a chronograph, you can use it to help determine an optimum weight for the particular power plant. Try a range of different weights and you will find a bell curve where very light and very heavy pellets produce less energy (fpe) than those in the middle of the range. Many folks find that the most accurate is often one of those producing the highest energy. Mind you, it's not going to make a tin of Gamo or Daisy pellets magically hit a dime at 50 yards, rather talking about quality pellets like JSB AND H&N. But I agree with others who said shoot that which is most accurate, period, and don't worry too much about the spring.
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