Can pellets be too heavy for a springer?

[Underdog]

When I first got into airguns, one of the first things I read was over on CharlieDaTuna's website about using pellets no larger than about 8 grains because it can damage your spring.

Is this true?
I've just ordered a HW95 from AoA, with a box of 10.65 grain Baracuda Match H&N pellets. Maybe I should have stayed below 8 grains?

What do you think?

[triggerfest]

Not according to my experience....

I've used .22 25.9gr JSB Monsters in my standard Diana 34 without problems and even did shot very accurate as well !

I think it is a myth pending around on forums.

[BenjiHunter]

Use the pellets that gives you best accuracy.
A spring is easy to replace and not very expensive.

[robertr]

If a pellet is to heavy for the spring the piston can rebound which is something you want to avoid, to light a pellet is also not good, less cushioning effect on the piston.

[Skinard88]

Before I put a soft tune in my D34 I was shooting JSB 10gr. through her and it was very accurate. When I shot lighter pellets it was still accurate but it was not as smooth and my gun would have a little ring at the end of the shot. IMO if your gun shoots great, sounds like everything is working like it should then I would shoot that ammo. Remember, Springs and seals are considered consumables.

[stija]

Yes. A too heavy of a pellet may get stuck in the barrel and never make it out.

On the other hand, if your gun spits the pellets accurately, then they are obviously not too heavy. Also, I think heavier pellets cannot damage your gun components while too light of a pellet does.  Just think of the mechanics of a springer air gun..

[anuthabubba]

Can pellets be too heavy for a particular springer?
YES!

Can pellets be too light for a particular springer?
YES!

Can this damage the springer?
YES!

How long do you want YOUR springer and/or scope to last and shoot accurately?
YOUR CHOICE!

[Underdog]

Can pellets be too heavy for a particular springer?
YES!

Can pellets be too light for a particular springer?
YES!

Can this damage the springer?
YES!

How long do you want YOUR springer and/or scope to last and shoot accurately?
YOUR CHOICE!

Ummmm....
That's not actually helpful. Obviously I'd like to make a choice that doesn't damage my new rifle! I mean, who would choose to damage their brand new (insert toy of choice here)?!!
 But you don't tell me how to tell if a pellet is too light or too heavy....

[Privateer]

If you have a to lite of pellet? You'll feel a slam when you fire it.
To heavy? You'll feel the double rebound effect.

[BenjiHunter]

If you don't go to extremes and stay between 7 and 11 grains, you'll be fine.
If your Barracudas are accurate, use those.

[Underdog]

Ok. Thanks! I'll just have to try it out to see what effect certain pellets have then. Either a rebound or a slam.

[Frank]

The way I judge it is by pellet drop. If you get a pellet that is hitting lower than the average I consider it too heavy. Why shoot the heavies when there are plenty other pellets that stay within the allowed zero....

[HectorMedina]

When I first got into airguns, one of the first things I read was over on CharlieDaTuna's website about using pellets no larger than about 8 grains because it can damage your spring.

Is this true?
I've just ordered a HW95 from AoA, with a box of 10.65 grain Baracuda Match H&N pellets. Maybe I should have stayed below 8 grains?

What do you think?

Jim;

Damage is a relative term.

All things have lives. Springs included.
Back in the days when people thought that springs had to last a generation (or more), to have to replace a broken spring after 7,000 rounds was considered "damage".
In this current day and age of printer cartridges and toners, we have become accustomed to the idea of things having finite lives.
A very heavy pellet will make the piston rebound, yes, but that is not the problem. The problem is that in rebounding, the piston compresses the spring, which then distends again. Extreme cases can do this three times per shot. At three cycles per shot, fatigue sets into the steel much faster than when you use the spring one cycle per shot.
So, when a spring dies after 2,500 rounds of heavy pellet usage, people say your spring got "damaged".

Too light a pellet and what suffers are your seals. The seals take the brunt of decelerating the piston at the end of its travel, and that energy has to go somewhere. USUALLY, it goes to destroy the seals.

One aspect about springers that few people realize is that a well adjusted springer will always give you peak Muzzle Energy with the best pellet for the power plant.

Some power plants are highly strung instead of being finely tuned and this makes them pellet finicky. Some power plants look for maximum muzzle velocity and then disregard the effect of excessive MV in a pellet's ballistics. BUT, for some shooters, the ONLY solution to taming down the beast is using a heavy pellet. The heavy pellet will give you lower velocity and, sometimes that improves the accuracy.

As you gain experience, you will learn to LISTEN to your rifle. The sounds (and even better, the LACK thereof), usually can tell you a lot of how your gun is performing and if you can improve it.

A few heavy pellets will not hurt any quality spring, so test to your heart's content. When you find a pellet that the gun likes, is when the fun starts.

IN GENERAL, small compression chambers with smallish pistons (like the HW's and the AA's) work their best with pellets in the region of 8 to 9 grains in 0.177" cal. but all rifles are a law unto their own, so test. Test everything, from 7.33's to 10.5's
Also check to see if your particular barrel likes the pellets lubed (and with what) or not.

HTH and keep us posted.






Hector Medina

[Underdog]

Great info here. I'm a total newb when it comes to springers (airguns in general, actually), so all of this is great!
Thanks again!

[phoebeisis]

What is the displacement of a typical  springer cylinder-
stroke
diameter
Off top of your heads-?
preloaded length of typical springer spring? unpreloaded length
Thanks
Charlie

[ezman604]

Excellent info Hector, thanks for that.
I just saw this thread and can't add a whole lot but wanted to chime in.
For the best performance, you need to use the correct pellet weight for the specific airgun power plant, as Hector says. Not all airguns are equipped the same, especially springers. There are different chamber sizes and main spring diameters, number of coils and thickness of wire used. All contributing to generating a different amount of air volume and force behind it. So, you need to pick the pellet that gives the best performance with the specific power plant of the airgun. We "generally" put our airguns in classes of power such as low, medium, high and magnum just as a rough way to determine the correct ammo. It gets you in the ballpark as to what weight pellet to look at or what to not look at. You would not use PBA in a magnum class airgun. Nor use a heavy weight round in a lower powered airgun. Sticking with the correct weight pellet will not only give a better performance but will help lengthen the time between maintenance intervals and spring replacement, IMHO.

[stija]

Is spring rebound, with too heavy of a pellet, a theoretical beast or is it factual? 

I just cannot see how to heavy of a pellet can rebound the spring, and if it actually could do so, how it could rebound it more than once.  It's rather easy to test this by blocking off the compression chamber hole and shooting the spring, and this would be the WORST case scenario (heaviest pellet in the world).  I can see the spring maybe rebound once slightly under these extreme (non-real world) circumstances, but i think it would be a rather shor rebound to the tune of 1/4-1/2" at most. 

In any other scenario where the pellet actually can move even a little bit under spring pressure, it would not cause any rebound, at least not in my head and using my logic, so again i ask, has this rebound theory been tested and proven or does it only remain theoretical?

[Fred J]

I like Hectors reply. In my experience, listening to your springer as it fires tells you a lot. I have settled on JSB/AA 8.4 gr for my RWS 34. If I use 7.3 gr JSB/AA pellets, I hear a ring at the end of the shot cycle (piston hitting the cylinder). If I shoot AA/JSB 10.3 gr, I hear more buzz (spring bounce). In either case (7.3 and 10.3 gr), the accuracy is not quite as good as the accuracy I get with the 8.4 gr pellet.

I also find that how tightly the pellet fits into the breach also is a factor: I can shoot Crosman 7.4 gr premiers and not get a ring in the gun, and get decent groups. The problem with shooting these tight pellets is getting consistent seating in the breach (which can be a bit of a hassle, even with a pellet seating tool). Since the JSB/AA 8.4 gr pellets seat nicely and consistently in the breach, I shoot them all the time.

Hope you find your best pellet. Straight shooting!

[triggerfest]

Can pellets be too heavy for a particular springer?
YES!

Can pellets be too light for a particular springer?
YES!

Can this damage the springer?
YES!

How long do you want YOUR springer and/or scope to last and shoot accurately?
YOUR CHOICE!

If I read this answer I'm almost afraid to even use my springer at all LOL

I go for Benjihunter's answer: Use the pellets that gives you best accuracy.

And the Baracuda's are fine...

[anuthabubba]

Can pellets be too heavy for a particular springer?
YES!

Can pellets be too light for a particular springer?
YES!

Can this damage the springer?
YES!

How long do you want YOUR springer and/or scope to last and shoot accurately?
YOUR CHOICE!

If I read this answer I'm almost afraid to even use my springer at all LOL

I go for Benjihunter's answer: Use the pellets that gives you best accuracy.

And the Baracuda's are fine...

Actually, this post was made AFTER some discussion of the subject, in this thread, where the possible benefit vs damage had been noted.