I want advice on a piston or springer for hunting.

[AHMSA]

Welcome to GTA.  I would recommend a Hatsan 95 in .22.  I have one with the spring piston and it's a sweet shooter.  It usually runs between $100 and $150 based on what kind of deal you find.  If you're planning on using a scope, I would recommend change the rings that come with it to a one-piece mount.  The factory scope works if you like it but don't expect it to perform like a $100 scope.  Some people might say the scope should go in the trash so it's up to you.

[Old Corps]

Pyramyd Air currently has the Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 on sale for $99.99, plus the Touchdown-16 10% off code and if you're a first time buyer, they give you another 10% so you should be able to get it for $80.
I have one, shoots H&N FTT 14.66 gr pellets very well, right around 755 fps of the rated 800 fps, should handle the pests you mentioned and be good for target and plinking and the money saved could go towards a better scope as the Optima it comes with won't last long. There are any number of good air gun rated scopes in the $60-$80 range that would keep your total under the $200 you'd like to.

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-edge-air-rifle-vortex-piston-black?m=3724

I was going to suggest the exact same thing but Steve did it already. I use mine in .25 without a scope. It's light, powerful and extremely accurate. For a bit longer range than 30/35 yards get the .22. Run a couple of drops of GooGone or Simple Green on a patch down the bore then run patches through until they come out clean. Mine had quite a bit of oil in it. Do this before even firing it or it will diesel and be about as loud as a powder burner .22. The first few shots will be a bit louder then she'll quiet down.
It's an outstanding rifle for the $$$ but the scope is pretty cheap--most fail pretty quickly. I just ordered another one in .22. Good luck with whatever you decide to get.

Ed

The Hatsan 95 is also a great choice and has a better trigger with more adjustability. I have a .22 Vortex (gas piston) one. Great rifle but it is quite a bit heavier and more $$$.

[John Woodskills]

While looking at a suggested site I was looking at a .25 Hatsan.
It has better knock down, is it a legit consideration or just a distraction?

[AHMSA]

Are you referring to the Hatsan Mod 25 or a .25 cal Hatsan?  If you want a more powerful rifle, I would go with the Hatsan 125 in .25.  I also have one and it's very powerful.  However, it's not an all-day plinker because it's hard to cock.

[SteveP-52]

I have the Model 95 (7 1/2 lbs unscoped) and the Edge Vortex (6 1/2 lbs unscoped) in .25 caliber and they definitely have knockdown power. A couple things to consider will be what kind of distances you might be shooting at and pellet availability.
Most of my shooting is 30 yards or less and the .25 does that very well. If you're going to be shooting farther, the .22 is probably the better option and you'll also find pellets in .22 easier although as mentioned in my earlier post, mine shoots H&N FTT (Field Target Trophy) pellets very well so I make use of Pyramyd Air's Buy 3 get the 4th tin free deal. Airgun Depot also has the same deal.

[anuthabubba]

Most knowledgeable folks keep their airgun's muzzle velocity to around 850-950fps. Airgun pellets don't behave well (decreased accuracy) travelling/transitioning to and from the speed of sound because of their shape and weight.

[stealthhunt]

I would get clear understanding between springer and piston first then move on to other suitabilities

[Methuselah]

John,

With that budget there is a decent possibility you will need to be handy.  Also, your budget doesn't seem to take a scope into account.

If you are willing to give up the followup shot in favor of higher percentage of chances for an accurate AND inexpensive shooter, I'd suggest looking at Daisy.

The 880's might need some mod work
The 901's have some of the so-called mod work you might perform on an 880 done
The 853 refurbs from CMP are more pricey but excellent shooters (I'm told)

Benefit of an 880 or 901 is they are quiet at ten pumps but you can hear them, though at maybe 4 pumps you can practice quite silently and they can be very accurate.  Even better they are available at WalMart so if you don't get a good one you can return it until you do...

I have one of the other suggested guns, Remington Express.  Mine had a bent barrel (which I straightened), which put the sights at limit but the optically centered scope close - then can't use the scope yet because the barrel pivot was gritty and has worked loose.  Most are decent from what I've read - just going on record so you have a idea of what I meant by percentage on the springers...

If you are handy you should consider a Chinese knock off, i.e. B1 or B3.  Very inexpensive, not hard to work on, and will leave you some budget for a scope.  BTW, you said you wanted a gas ram gun, springs can be made to be quite smooth shooting, especially if tuned.

[anuthabubba]

A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant, while still delivering the power to make lethal shots on traditional airgun quarry to 40 plus yards.

Will second the suggestion of an RWS34 (new, used or refurb) or XS25 from: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51

[Gump]

Hi, everyone. If you don't mind me joining in and sharing my note.

I'm on a same boat with you, John. I've watched and read many reviews. These are my notes so far and narrow down to Hatsan Edge and Mod 95 as of today 02/05/16. The Edge .22 is in my basket and tempting to pull a trigger :-)

- My budget is up to $150 or a little more for a .22 rifle, some $50 for other like pellets and strap, max $200.

- Brand: I picked Hatsan because of German steel barrel (personal preference) and many accuracy reviews. I mean a smallest chance getting a bad or poor one out the box. Not to mention different pellet types use for a group testing to findout an accuracy.

- Hatsan 95/Edge: it's 50/50 for me. Accuracy are similar. about $50 more for nice wood stock, smoother trigger and additional 1.2 lb weight.

- spring/vortex: about $20-30 more. It's 60/40 for me because I like repairing stuff and keep things for long time. Replacement parts are hard to find and pricey. Main spring is cheaper than nitro piston which maybe replace vortex with custom made insert. Some says vortex less noise and easier cocking than spring, some says no different. Each person hears things differently(One person can hear a squirrel running but not his wife talking). So that will depend on my neighbor's complaint. Out in the wood, it's up to the muzzle to minimize noise, not by power plant. Some reviewer mentioned about noise different on location of detector, shooter vs. target. Sound wave bounces on walls/objects.

- New/refurb: it's 75/25 for me. About $30-50 less for refurb which some comes with or without "a nice handle." There is a higher risk of getting poor barrel because it's a return and repaired rifle. It maybe other mechanical issue that got fixed or not even fixed as example one mentioned "... refurb and the vortex piston dropped its power so I just sent it back." Scratch and scuff are minor consideration. Warranty is 12 vs 3 months. Note: Hatsan has a recall model Striker which was on my list.

My current thought keep looking maybe another good deal pops up. I don't usually jump on the first good deal :-) Hatsan Edge Vortex at pa is good price right now with discount code and get some pellets or handle replacement to get free shipping over $150 order. I prefer spring but this case gas power for spring power's price ;-)
Let's see if Hatsan 95 has some good deal next, anytime now at Bargain Gate. BTW, I see a thread topic: "Current Deals that set a Price/Value Standard" is good info baseline price what other recently got sweet deal. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103889.0

About a Chinese knock off, I'm handy but like playing with my toy, not repairing (my thought).

I like to say thanks to all of you for sharing your on hand experiences.

[Methuselah]

- Brand: I picked Hatsan because of German steel barrel (personal preference) and many accuracy reviews. I mean a smallest chance getting a bad or poor one out the box.

Gump,

German steel is a marketing ploy - steel is steel, no different than anyone else's.

Biggest considerations come after you purchase, warranty, parts support, aftermarket support, etc.

Reason I suggested the Chinese knockoffs if you are handy - you could easily get 2 or 3 of them, work on them, and still come out ahead on $$$ - but it's not most peoples first choice to be sure.

Another expense most folks don't pay attention to is pellets.  Some guns are very picky or simply won't shoot certain ones.  I had one that wouldn't even go into the breach, and another that shot 4-5" groups inside 15 yards.  Then there's the scope --- see fine at 40 yards, OK, but if you are aiming at something as small as a sparrow good luck telling him from a finch, bluebird, chickadee, etc. at that distance.  In other words, no scope in the budget now but if you plan to shoot beyond 10-15 yards at something small it will be...

[LAalex]

A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant, while still delivering the power to make lethal shots on traditional airgun quarry to 40 plus yards.

Will second the suggestion of an RWS34 (new, used or refurb) or XS25 from: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51

Unbeatable for the money IMO. 
http://www.airgundepot.com/diana-rws-34p.html

Scotty

[jus Tom]

Head spinnin' yet John?   No surprise if it is. My .02, stick with .22 spring or piston but get a good trigger! FlyingDragon has a good following here, so they must be good. RWS 34 also gets mentioned a LOT. 
I tried a Hatsan and didn't care for their trigger. I now have three RWS guns and love the T05 and 06 triggers. A 34 will cost a bit over your posted target price, but will be worth it in the long run.
Welcome to the site.

[John Woodskills]

Head spinnin' yet John?   No surprise if it is. My .02, stick with .22 spring or piston but get a good trigger! FlyingDragon has a good following here, so they must be good. RWS 34 also gets mentioned a LOT. 
I tried a Hatsan and didn't care for their trigger. I now have three RWS guns and love the T05 and 06 triggers. A 34 will cost a bit over your posted target price, but will be worth it in the long run.
Welcome to the site.

Head spinning?
You have no idea.
But then again, this exactly what I was asking. I'm enjoying this emencely.
Thanks everyone. Please keep up the advice. Looks like Gump and I are going to benefit greatly from this thread.
John.

[Gump]

- Brand: I picked Hatsan because of German steel barrel (personal preference) and many accuracy reviews. I mean a smallest chance getting a bad or poor one out the box.

Gump,

German steel is a marketing ploy - steel is steel, no different than anyone else's.

Biggest considerations come after you purchase, warranty, parts support, aftermarket support, etc.

Reason I suggested the Chinese knockoffs if you are handy - you could easily get 2 or 3 of them, work on them, and still come out ahead on $$$ - but it's not most peoples first choice to be sure.

Another expense most folks don't pay attention to is pellets.  Some guns are very picky or simply won't shoot certain ones.  I had one that wouldn't even go into the breach, and another that shot 4-5" groups inside 15 yards.  Then there's the scope --- see fine at 40 yards, OK, but if you are aiming at something as small as a sparrow good luck telling him from a finch, bluebird, chickadee, etc. at that distance.  In other words, no scope in the budget now but if you plan to shoot beyond 10-15 yards at something small it will be...

My apology, not meant to offend your suggestion at all. It's good advise for more options for sure. I agree steel is steel, I'm a sucker on their marketing hype LOL. Thanks for the pointer about pellets as I mentioned that there's a need to do a pellet group testing. I also agree about the scope that's my plan to get rifle in low $100 and decent scope around $50-70. That will bring total over 150 for free shipping. What do you think?

About the support & services, yes, I'm reading this thread: Factory & Aftermarket Support http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103631.0. Crosman and Daisy are top then Flying dragon. Hatsan is not much to say. I hopping that there are chinese clone parts compatible or some cross reference for most rifles. I will do more research on this. Again thanks for your input.

[John Woodskills]

A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant,]

Whats the biggest critter you've taken with the .177 and also with the .22?
Was there regret of under power or not enough grain weight?
I'm fairly familiar with the concept of flat and fast vrs heavy and arched. I've preferred tradritional archery with homemade wooden arrows at shorter yards vrs cams and pullies shooting carbon missiles or centerfire .303 brit and 7.62 NATO over .243 or .218 and love the venerable 45/70 of my family member. So I'm bent to lean towards heavy and lobbed in if you understand me. I'm starting to see the benefits of fast and flat though.

I prefer shorter ranges at this time.
I do think I'll be going next to a .177 for my boys. We will be able to see which one works for our intended uses.

Thank you for your input. John.

[Gump]

Head spinnin' yet John?   No surprise if it is. My .02, stick with .22 spring or piston but get a good trigger! FlyingDragon has a good following here, so they must be good. RWS 34 also gets mentioned a LOT. 
I tried a Hatsan and didn't care for their trigger. I now have three RWS guns and love the T05 and 06 triggers. A 34 will cost a bit over your posted target price, but will be worth it in the long run.
Welcome to the site.

Head spinning?
You have no idea.
But then again, this exactly what I was asking. I'm enjoying this emencely.
Thanks everyone. Please keep up the advice. Looks like Gump and I are going to benefit greatly from this thread.
John.

Heck yeah, keep it comin' :-)

[AHMSA]

Hatsan's customer service is great.  The gas ram on my Hatsan 95 failed about a month after buying it.  I contacted them and they told me to ship it.  I talked to them and asked for a spring to be installed instead of the gas ram and they had no problem with it at no charge to me.  A couple of weeks later my rifle came back and it's been a great shooter since.

I also contacted them because the cheek-piece adjustment screw fell off of my Mod 125 Sniper and they sent me a new one without any problem.

[Methuselah]

My apology, not meant to offend your suggestion at all.

You didn't 

my plan to get rifle in low $100 and decent scope around $50-70. That will bring total over 150 for free shipping. What do you think?

Sounds good!

Forgot to add, in today's market everybody seems to be cutting labor as much as possible and more stuff gets through QC with problems.  I'd suspect percentages are higher in getting a good one when you spend more from a quality-minded manufacturer but I think anyone can wind up getting a lemon or shipping-damaged gun in any price range.  So if you can buy from WalMart they have a great return policy if something is wrong with it, and likewise there are some internet dealers better than others.  I'd suggest this should also be a consideration?

[John Woodskills]

My apology, not meant to offend your suggestion at all.

You didn't 

my plan to get rifle in low $100 and decent scope around $50-70. That will bring total over 150 for free shipping. What do you think?

Sounds good!

Forgot to add, in today's market everybody seems to be cutting labor as much as possible and more stuff gets through QC with problems.  I'd suspect percentages are higher in getting a good one when you spend more from a quality-minded manufacturer but I think anyone can wind up getting a lemon or shipping-damaged gun in any price range.  So if you can buy from WalMart they have a great return policy if something is wrong with it, and likewise there are some internet dealers better than others.  I'd suggest this should also be a consideration?

John,

With that budget there is a decent possibility you will need to be handy.  Also, your budget doesn't seem to take a scope into account.

If you are willing to give up the followup shot in favor of higher percentage of chances for an accurate AND inexpensive shooter, I'd suggest looking at Daisy.

The 880's might need some mod work
The 901's have some of the so-called mod work you might perform on an 880 done
The 853 refurbs from CMP are more pricey but excellent shooters (I'm told)

Benefit of an 880 or 901 is they are quiet at ten pumps but you can hear them, though at maybe 4 pumps you can practice quite silently and they can be very accurate.  Even better they are available at WalMart so if you don't get a good one you can return it until you do...

I have one of the other suggested guns, Remington Express.  Mine had a bent barrel (which I straightened), which put the sights at limit but the optically centered scope close - then can't use the scope yet because the barrel pivot was gritty and has worked loose.  Most are decent from what I've read - just going on record so you have a idea of what I meant by percentage on the springers...

If you are handy you should consider a Chinese knock off, i.e. B1 or B3.  Very inexpensive, not hard to work on, and will leave you some budget for a scope.  BTW, you said you wanted a gas ram gun, springs can be made to be quite smooth shooting, especially if tuned.

I am so new I didn't know there were chinese knockoffs. No surprise there though.
I really do prefer to get a break over this time. I'm not ruling out a pump in the future. On that thought the youngest fancies a crossman 1377 and wants a shoulder stock on it. I'll probably do that for him to keep the fun up. I already have 2 that like their electronic devices better than being outside.