GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: TWBryan on May 14, 2015, 04:05:24 PM
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Thanks to the kindness of RatRacer (Steve) I received some pellet samples today to try on my brand new HW95 Luxus. If it's ok,I'll just keep all the pellet tests confined to this thread. Rather than create multiple topics. If that not ok Mods just let me know.
First test this hot and sweaty afternoon,was with RWS Meisterkugeln (I think that's how it's spelled).
The first pellet landed high and far to the right.So I chased zero until I could land one close. Ran out of adjustment to the left so that had to be good enough.
Group #2 Got me excited,a nice tight five shot group. I guess it could be a fluke ,but it looked darn good.
Unfortunately as 3,4,and 5 show this amazing "luck" didn't last. By the time I reached target #6 I had two pellets left and I used them on the remington boar target,missed the first,hit with the second.
Not sure what to think,except that RWS isn't terribly consistant,which seems to be the case with the RWS Superdomes I've tried. The only alterations to the gun I've made is to straighten the bent tab that prevents trigger adjustment,and loosen the breech bolt and add some moly lube.
My scope could be at fault,but I've tried it against a known good scope (Leaper's Bugbuster 6X) and got the same results. There is always the 'loose nut behind the trigger' factor,but I've schooled myself pretty thoroughly to be as consistant as I can.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95%20target%2005142015%20398%20x%20516.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95%20target%2005142015%20398%20x%20516.jpg.html)
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Those results are not surprising. The wadcutter Meisterkugeln pellets perform better at shorter distances. Try round nose pellets such as JSB or H&N Field Target Trophy. They are available in different head sizes.
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I kind of figured that myself,but I had 'em to try so I did the test.
Just got back in from another pellet test using JSBs Jumbo RS. I won't bother posting the target,this gun hates JSBs. I would have gotten better groups with a shotgun. :)
Tomorrow if all goes well I'll be testing a couple H&N FTT pellets in different head sizes.
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I've observed that on the Canadian Airgun Forum a lot of HW .22 springer shooters report that their rifles have bores that do best with larger head size pellets like the H&N FTT 5.54 and 5.55mm.
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Geez,I hope mine's more reasonable.I don't know where I'd find 5.54 or larger pellets. I think the largest I've seen are 5.53.
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Geez,I hope mine's more reasonable.I don't know where I'd find 5.54 or larger pellets. I think the largest I've seen are 5.53.
I sent you some 5.55's
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Ratracer,yes you did,been meaning to ask,where did you get them? I've checked all the major retailers of airgun supplies and none of them have anything more the 5.53.
Raining here this morning so no pellet test. Maybe this afternoon.
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I got them at PA, 3-4 years ago, when I got my 1st p-rod.
https://www.pyramydair.com/ammo/pellets (https://www.pyramydair.com/ammo/pellets)
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Thanks RatRacer! :) I was looking at the Barracudas for that head size,I hope this gun likes the FTTs.
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Today's pellet test is with H&N FTT 5.53 ,at 30 yards with the HW95L .22
The height was off so I chased zero on the first target. Got it close and since I have no more windage adjustment in the scope I went ahead and shot the remainder of the targets. I don't think this is the pellet for the gun. My gut feeling is that it likes the head size,but wants something heavier.
Of course I have to consider this might be the fault of the loose nut behind the trigger. That always a possibility ,and in my case a probability. :)
I think I'll try an experiment to eliminate an equipment factor. I'll remove the scope mount and reverse it,mount the scope back in it and see if POI changes dramatically. If so I need to get a new scope mount. If not ,then I consider other causes,including me unconsciously jerking the trigger.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95%20target%2005152015%20399%20x%20512.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95%20target%2005152015%20399%20x%20512.jpg.html)
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Today's pellet test is with H&N FTT 5.53 ,at 30 yards with the HW95L .22
The height was off so I chased zero on the first target. Got it close and since I have no more windage adjustment in the scope I went ahead and shot the remainder of the targets. I don't think this is the pellet for the gun. My gut feeling is that it likes the head size,but wants something heavier.
Of course I have to consider this might be the fault of the loose nut behind the trigger. That always a possibility ,and in my case a probability. :)
I think I'll try an experiment to eliminate an equipment factor. I'll remove the scope mount and reverse it,mount the scope back in it and see if POI changes dramatically. If so I need to get a new scope mount. If not ,then I consider other causes,including me unconsciously jerking the trigger.
I haven't followed your threads and don't know what other advice you may have read or been given, but I'll ask anyway: are you using the "artillery hold" when shooting your springer? Proper hold and technique is absolutely necessary to achieve consistent accuracy.
I don't think the H&N FTT pellet at 14.66 grains is too light for a springer like the HW95. JSB .22 15.89 grain round nose pellets are available in two head sizes -- 5.51 and 5.52mm.
What kind of scope mount are you using if you can reverse it? Assuming you have a stop pin, the mount can only go one way.
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Grauhanen, I have a 1-piece scope mount,when I reverse it I don't use the stop pin. Which didn't make a bit of difference by the way. The gun hates JSBs no idea why it just does. It seems to be more consistant using the H&N Barracudas than else I've tried thus far. Yes I am using the artillery hold.
Pellet test ,I shot the first four targets with the H&N FTT in 5.55 . The pellets were a snug fit,sadly I don't think the gun cared for them. I decided to switch to my H&N standard issue Barracudas for the bottom two targets. You can see where I was chasing the zero to get it back on target.The final target shows I still need to dial the scope in more,but all the holes are at least inside the large ring.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95%20target%2005152015%20002%20402%20x%20543.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95%20target%2005152015%20002%20402%20x%20543.jpg.html)
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The 5.53's posted the two best groups as far as I can see (targets 4 & 5). I'd give those another chance. JMO.
Scotty
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Pardon the interruption with newb question:
Do individual guns like different pellets or is it model specific?
Could one HW95L like pellet X but another HW95L like pellet Z?
And unless the gun is shot by a machine, can the shooter be the difference? (could two different shooters get different results using the same pellet from the same individual rifle?)
Thanks
Back to regular programming.
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Has the barrel been cleaned?...........
Happy Shhootin!
Petey
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LaAlex,thanks I'll consider them.The next round of testing involves H&N Barracudas. :)
Lost,yes some airguns only perform their best with a certain pellet. Each gun seems to be different when it comes to that. Sometimes when a gun is altered (tuned) it's pellet preference changes.
The human factor is always in play,but given that you are using proper technique,the gun will still show a preference for certain pellet.
Petey,yup cleaned the 'cosmoline' out of the barrel before it was ever shot. ;)
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Congrats on the HW95L. Mine was never pellet fussy after the break in period @ .177cal. Was running cphp's through her with great results. Cheap and local. Hopefully she will still be open to a variety of pellets after I vortek her. She's been down with a broken spring. I've been impressed with the H&N Field Target Trophy's out of a my tuned Big Cat. She was very accurate with them after a couple of tins, allthough she still fairs well with cphp's. My crosman 2100 pumper is dead nuts on with the H&N FTT pellets. I typically range at 30 yds. My guess is your girl is still breaking in. Good luck!
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Hoffy43,Thanks I am hoping it will settle down more,it seems I have been shooting it quite a bit.
Today's pellet test,30 yard using H&N Barracudas 5.51.
On targets 1 and 2 I was trying to get it near a zero. Still making fine adjustments on 3 and a little on 4. On targets 5 and 6 I just concentrated on getting my (expletive deleted) together and shoot for a group.
I think it shoots better with them then the lighter pellets,not great. I have some 5.52's which I will try tomorrow if time permits.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2005172015%20402%20x%20534.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2005172015%20402%20x%20534.jpg.html)
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Awesome gun the HW95L! So glad I purchased mine. She was consistently taking down dime sized targets at 30 to 40 yds when I did my part from a rest. Can't wait to have her up and shooting again. Hopefully next week. How does she compare to her sister the HW77, or is it to soon to tell.
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The H&N Baracuda Match .22 pellets weigh 21.14 grains. A HW95 will be shooting them at less than 600 fps, probably closer to 560 fps. Those pellets are probably more suited to PCPs.
Retry shooting 50 to 100 of each different pellet in turn. Shoot off the bench using something for a rest that will accommodate the two-way recoil. Shoot at something like 20 yards which will not be too short a range (in which case every pellet looks pretty good) and not too long that it amplifies every slight mistake. Your gun should be responsive to something in either the H&N FTT or JSB Exact Jumbo. The former are available in head sizes from 5.53, 5.54, and 5.55mm. The JSB's come in 5.51 and 5.52mm. If none of those shoot well, H&N makes a 5.50mm pellet called "Field Target" (this is not the same as Field Target Trophy) that weighs 16.36 grains. JSB Express in .22 weigh 14.35 grains.
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Hoffy43,The HW77 and HW95 are just about apples and oranges. The HW77 is solid and shootas well from a rest,but it is heavy. I'd swear it weighs 50 lbs going out to shoot and 150 lbs coming back. HW95 is lighter and easier to handle. I'd say HW77 from the bench,and the HW95 for hunting.
Grauhanen,I am shooting from a bench,believe it or not. ;) I'm not trying any more JSB's their performance in this gun is pretty appalling. The scope adjustment with the barracudas is mid range,where it should be.With lighter pellets ,it requires a good deal of adjustment to stay on target.
If the Barracudas don't suit the gun I'll be looking at getting some AA Diabolo field heavies,H&N Magnum Snipers, and maybe even some PDG pellets.
Hopefully tomorrow I can test 5.52 Barracudas.
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Also might want to consider feeding her pellets that don't exceed 15 grains. according to CDT 15 grains is the max he recommends @ .22cal in a springer before spring damage would be a concern. Also you would Gain some significant Fps back into the equation. I know a lot of shooters disregard pellet weight concerns as they are willing to replace springs as needed in order to gain their desired shot. Its all up to the individual shooter:)
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The scope adjustment with the barracudas is mid range,where it should be.With lighter pellets ,it requires a good deal of adjustment to stay on target.
I'm not sure what you mean by the scope adjustment being "mid range" with the BM pellets, "where it should be". I'll take a guess that by this you mean that the scope needs little adjustment to be close between POA and POI. If the guess is correct, it would be an unorthodox method of finding the most accurate pellet for your rifle.
I had an HW97 in .22 as one of my first air rifles since returning to airguns a few years ago. I had read on forums about how the JSB pellets were the cat's meow but discovered that they wouldn't shoot out of my gun with anything approaching accuracy at all. I shot some H&N FTT 5.53 pellets that I happened to have and the groups tightened considerably, but still not sufficiently. I tried the larger head sizes and found that the 5.55mm were the pellet for my gun. I had a new HW 95 last year and it shot the 5.54mm best. Weihrauch springers in .22 have often shown a preference for larger head sizes in recent years.
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Hoffy43,the lighter pellets tend to produce 'shotgun patterns" in this gun.
Grauhanen,I've tried the lighter pellets and run out of adjustment on my scope trying to get POA and POI to match up. Yes that's strange,but it's the case so I choose to use pellets that are easier to zero,rather than impossible. I suspect I could find an adjustable scope mount and try to compensate for it,but I would still be making shotgun patterns.
I've tried H&N FTT 5.55 ,kindly provided for me by RatRacer, and they were the same as the rest. Only the Barracudas come close to producing groups. Hoping for better results using the 5.52 or 5.53.
The #4 target on the 5.51 test has a 3/4" group,which isn't bad for what I've seen the rifle do so far. If the Barracudas fail to give tighter groups then I will be trying AA diabolo Field heavies,H&N Magnum Snipers,and maybe some PDG dome pellets.
Not feeling that great today so I am holding off pellet testing for a day or so.
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Latest pellet test with H&N Barracudas in 5.52 ,I can't say I'm not a little disappointed. I was hoping for more consistant results. Next and last test this month will be H&N Barracudas in 5.53 .
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2005192015%20402%20x%20548.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2005192015%20402%20x%20548.jpg.html)
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If you want a whole series of pellets to compare at a reasonable cost, Straightshooters.com sells sampler kits that have 25 each of many different pellets and weights in most calibers. I used the .177 version and ended up with about 45 different pellets to test by combining my own stock of earlier pellet samplers and Straightshooters' new sampler kits. There are 18 different pellets in each kit that sells for around $25.
Other pellet manufacturers have kits too but they are limited to their own brand so a bit less flexible.
Other comment: weather conditions? You mentioned hot&sweaty early on. Temperature variations might affect poi/poa issues from session to session. WIND even at 30yds could be a serious issue for windage adjustments. All air rifles are sensitive to scope mounting issues. The funky recoil of the springer can damage scopes and move them around a little bit without letting you know about it. I suggest a pin punch mark on the scope tube next to the ring and on the rifle next to the mount to be sure they aren't moving around for you. I use a Wheeler FAT Torque Wrench to ensure that the screws are properly torqued and are tight.
Another terrible word in the air rifle world is "droop" that makes adjustment of scopes a bugger. The best interpretation is that air rifles are zeroed so close to the rifle that elevation adjustment can run out. Windage adjustment is usually less of a problem unless your scope isn't exactly centered in the vertical plane above the bore with the rifle held with the sights perfectly perpendicular to the ground and the scope crosshairs are in the same plane.
Velocity can also be a problem. Too high is bad! I am currently testing pellets from 4gr to 16 in my .177. The 4 gr (the ones that GAMO likes to claim give 1400f/s) shoot about 4" high and 4" left at 50' with a group size of 3" compared to the favorite pellet at 865f/s and 10.6 gr and group size of .4" dead on. I can track velocity change with group center movement. Also, the high velocities give poor group size and accuracy. Air rifle pellets are not designed for supersonic flight. Visualize a badminton shuttlecock gently tapped versus the same shuttlecock smashed as hard as possible - the flight paths are much different. Air gun pellets are much more like shuttlecocks rather than bullets.
To LOST: Yes, individual rifles will shoot the same pellet differently regardless of brand. It can be far worse in that lot-to-lot variation can also be significant enough to mess you up.
The further you get into this sport the more you find it is much more complex than you thought. The video at the following url and some of his other ones are instructive. He tests 3 batches of the "same" pellet with grossly different results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwg_cqC1y-M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwg_cqC1y-M)
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Thanks DT,so far as I know I'm looking for a pellet somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 grs,that narrows the field considerably,especially since JSBs aren't in consideration. As to weather ,I'm in Florida in May it's hot,most of the time when shooting there is no wind. A few times there has been mild wind and I usually wait for a lull before shooting.
Yes too many people buy into the 1200-1400 fps BS,faster is better isn't when when it comes to air rifles.
The only way I know of to change what my air rifle prefers is to change the firing cycle,which means a new spring or a kit install. Not real interested in doing either to a brand new gun.
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Take a look at Straightshooters.com website. They have a host of information shown on their website to help you understand your toys... I learned a WHOLE BUNCH from them. Their first page has a column of articles that are well worth looking at.
Where I live in Ohio it isn't too hot or too windy most of the time. It's just enough to provide all the excuses I need. GRIN
I lived in Oklahoma and Kansas earlier where it was both too hot and too windy for most air rifles. 22rimfire was barely enough... Centerfire was necessary for high accuracy.
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I'll check out Straightshooters,thanks. I spent a few months in Columbus ,Oh years ago,but I missed sunlight so I moved back to Fl. ;)
Flipping a coin on whether the HW95 will be tested tomorrow or if I'll play with the HW77 instead.
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Ran pellet test for H&N Barracudas in 5.53,sadly there wasn't an appreciable difference between those and the 5.52. I shot four groups and gave it up as a bad job. Far too hot out there anyway. That will conclude HW95 pellet tests until next month when I order some pellets. :)
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Here is the list of pellets in the 22 cal Straightshooters test kit. I don't have any connection to Straightshooters except to believe they are a good source and as helpful a company as you can get.
Neat thing they do is to shoot each rifle they sell with a bunch of pellets and report the results in their website under "Our Take" They tell the good and bad on most rifles and pellets. My personal tests show that the copper plated pellets (Double Gold is one name) have stiff skirts don't seal well and generally don't shoot well.
Worth digging around in their stuff before you invest in a bunch of pellets and work.
* RWS Meisterkuglen 14.00 gr
* Crosman Premier 14.30 gr
* JSB Exact Express 14.35 gr
* RWS SuperDome 14.50 gr
* RWS SuperPoint 14.50 gr
* RWS Supr-H-Point 14.20 gr
* H&N Field Target Trophy 14.66 gr
* Vortex Supreme 14.66 gr
* Beeman FTS Double Gold 14.72 gr
* Napier Power Hunter 15.42 gr
* JSB Predator 16.20 gr
* Beeman Silver Arrow 17.13 gr
* JSB Exact Heavy 18.03 gr
* H&N Crow Magnum 18.21 gr
* H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme 19.09 gr
* Beeman Kodiak Double Gold 21.12 gr
* Beeman Kodiak 21.10 gr
* H&N Baracuda Match 21.14 gr
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If your are truly looking for the "best" pellet for your gun you need IMHO to test JSB Exact Express at 14.35 gr and JSB Exact Jumbo RS at 13.43 gr. To not test them is to limit your search by a bias based upon a pellet (JSB Jumbo) that may just be too heavy for your particular rifle.
Both pellets may be horrible in your gun, but then IMHO you will know based upon your own testing.
Best wishes in your search.
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All the HW .22s are known for loose fitting leads....... as a result most will find a H&N Ftt of one head diameter or another will do the trick.
That being said , the last R9 I had wouldn't shoot anything but AA falcons 14.3.....Not even the JSB 14.3....... So down the road it went.
I would have sent it back buy now , not being able to get a greater degree of accuracy from that 95.
JMTCW.
Petey
Let me add, I view an AG that only shoots one pellet well as a liability... Most AG's will shoot at least two pellets very well and plus one that yields exceptional accuracy. So , if run out of that number one pellet, you have one or two more you can use ....An AG that only shoots one pellet is dead in the water if that pellet isn't available or you run out.
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DT, The majority of the pellets in the SS pack are a waste of time. Sorry to say that,but when's the last time you heard of an air rifle liking a pointed or wad-cutter pellet?
Mbouchpcp, btdt.
Petey, you think I should send it back? You think AOA would exchange it?
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I think it's worth considering... at least give the vendor a call.
One thing you may wish to try first , is come up too twenty yards and see what happens....if you're instantly drilling a single hole I'd say it's your technique or lack of. ;) Not much change--- I would send send it back and get another one. Things happen. That's why they have a warranty.
Happy Shootin!
Petey
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RE: pellet head shape. The rifle will tell you that it doesn't like the pellet. I generally end up with a wadcutter for target type stuff and a round head for higher power.
I honestly didn't go through the 22 list with that in mind. I just pointed you to the source. What to do with the information is your job.
I shoot .177's and have only 1 22 that is the old multi-pump Benjamin Sheridan. I have had good accuracy with pointy heads in my RWS54.
The deal breakers for me are: loose pellet skirts that don't seal well, copper coating (makes the pellets too hard to conform to the bore) and too HIGH velocity. I have yet to have a pellet that left the bore supersonic to shoot better groups than my shotgun.
Cheers!
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Petey,I might send them an email regarding the matter. Though given the struggle over the front sight I'm probably not their favorite customer. What do think of the chances of it improving if I install a tune kit? I know it won't fix a bad barrel,but it will improve the firing cycle.
DT, you are right on the money in your observations.Sorry if I seemed short. I've tried all the JSBs, the H&N FTTs,and Barracudas. The only RWS I would think might work is the Superdomes,and their qc seems a bit inconsistent.
I'm not entirely discounting the loose nut behind the trigger. I still suspect the scope,but I've tried it against a known good scope. Technique could be &^^&,but I've been working on it for a while. I'll try what Petey recommended and shoot it at 20 yds tomorrow ,If I feel up to it...
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Set up target at 20 yds and dragged out gun and JSB test tin. Target was an old manila folder on a metal target frame. Started with JSB Exacts,average group size was 6-8 inches,head size did not seem to be a factor.
JSB Monster Jumbos (25 grs) gave better groups,but not substantial better than H&N Barracudas.
Gun hates light to medium weight pellets.
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I wish you luck in trying to exchange or return your HW 95 to A of A! I tried to return my new FX Royale 400 to them because of a trigger problem. They refused to accept it because "Its a used gun." Never bought anything more from them .... and I live just down the road from them in Tucson!
Joe in AZ
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Stacker,I kindof figure that would be the response I get. I know if you email Weihrauch they tell tell you to take it to their chief importer in America. They never say who that is though.
If all else fails I'll stick a tune kit in it and maybe get the barrel re-crowned.
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Just wandering around the internet and put in hw95L as a search parameter to see what your gun looks like and found reference to a guy on this site (KEVINBRIAN) who posted about a HW95L purchase a couple years ago. He seems to be quite knowledgeable. He claims to have a bunch of them so must be happy. If you can find him perhaps he can provide some tips on making yours shoot better! Below is the url to the post.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=38711.msg360287#msg360287 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=38711.msg360287#msg360287)
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Thanks Dave,I'll look into it.
So far today,I re-tensioned the breech bolt,tried gun at 15 yards w/barracudas and could produce small groups. Just got in from shooting at 30 yards,sadly groups did not improve at that range.
I think the next step will be to try tightening up the breech bolt more. Maybe the ubermensch that tightened it at the factory had a reason. Secondly if I can I'll shoot again tomorrow using the 5.53 barracudas.
I think I've tried everything,my technique is good enough I should be producing smaller groups,and have done so in the past with different rifles. The trigger is a bit stiff,probably needs to be taken out,cleaned and re-lubed. I don't want to do anything that would void the warranty though,not that the warranty is worth much.
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Tim, do you know that the screw right behind the trigger can be adjusted to increase or decrease the pull weight of the trigger?
If you do take it out, a simple cleaning with brake cleaner and then a shot of RemOil then a small dab of (clear tar) grease or a touch of moly on the contact surfaces will usually make them even nicer.
If you want to go through the whole thing and polish contacting surfaces, here is a link to help you through it. I have swapped the factory spring out for a lighter one on my HW30S and adjusted it to be a very light and crisp break but I wouldn't recommend making the 95 as light as the 30.
http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php (http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php)
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Tim, do you know that the screw right behind the trigger can be adjusted to increase or decrease the pull weight of the trigger?
If you do take it out, a simple cleaning with brake cleaner and then a shot of RemOil then a small dab of (clear tar) grease or a touch of moly on the contact surfaces will usually make them even nicer.
If you want to go through the whole thing and polish contacting surfaces, here is a link to help you through it. I have swapped the factory spring out for a lighter one on my HW30S and adjusted it to be a very light and crisp break but I wouldn't recommend making the 95 as light as the 30.
http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php (http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php)
Thanks for that link Brett.
As many times I've visited there, I never knew that page was there.
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Brett,yes I do know about the trigger adjustment,I've straightened the trigger tab and made only minor adjustments to the trigger. I doubt I have the skill anymore to polish the sears,so I'll restrain myself to simply cleaning and lubing.
Checked the breech bolt ,and it was quite loose. It seems to be coming loose on it's own so I think I will have to do something about that. I'll consider taking out the trigger unit tomorrow.
Thanks
Tim
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Tim, do you know that the screw right behind the trigger can be adjusted to increase or decrease the pull weight of the trigger?
If you do take it out, a simple cleaning with brake cleaner and then a shot of RemOil then a small dab of (clear tar) grease or a touch of moly on the contact surfaces will usually make them even nicer.
If you want to go through the whole thing and polish contacting surfaces, here is a link to help you through it. I have swapped the factory spring out for a lighter one on my HW30S and adjusted it to be a very light and crisp break but I wouldn't recommend making the 95 as light as the 30.
http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php (http://www.airguns.net/general_rekord_trigger.php)
Thanks for that link Brett.
As many times I've visited there, I never knew that page was there.
Your welcome! It's nice to have something to reference when working on the Rekord.
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Brett,yes I do know about the trigger adjustment,I've straightened the trigger tab and made only minor adjustments to the trigger. I doubt I have the skill anymore to polish the sears,so I'll restrain myself to simply cleaning and lubing.
Checked the breech bolt ,and it was quite loose. It seems to be coming loose on it's own so I think I will have to do something about that. I'll consider taking out the trigger unit tomorrow.
Thanks
Tim
I figured you did but sometimes folks aren't aware of what it's there for so I thought that I would ask, just in case. I think that you will be happy with a clean and relube on the trigger. That is usually all they need and a few turns of a screw to get them set to your liking. I love the fact that the whole unit is contained and can be removed or installed with out separating all of the moving parts. It's a great design, especially for working on other parts of the rifle. Here is a video link to disassemble the HW95 should you be interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ux0xVwUj54 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ux0xVwUj54)
Man, I hope that you get this thing shooting well soon. It's a great rifle IMO. I guess that's why I have two, one in each caliber! ;D
Brett
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Another question on your issues at greater distance. I noted the scope was a 3x9-40 but didn't see if it was an adjustable objective scope. It is possible that the parallax settings are off for the distance you are shooting. It is unlikely that it would cause that much difference but worth a shot to check it.
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Took it apart with great care today and cleaned and lubed the trigger unit.Took the breech bolt out and looked over everything.The shims seem to have been treated with thin oil,there was a silver half ring where one rubbed against the breech block. Cleaned it all then lubed both sides of the shims with moly.
Put it back together and degreased the breech bolt threads with rubbing alcohol. Couldn't find the loc-tite so I coated the threads with clear fingernail polish. I tightened the breech bolt and nut a good deal tighter than I normally do. It should be all right with moly on the shims.
I will try it out tomorrow.
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Shot hw95L at 30 yds. Started that grouping was tight ,but 3" to the right and 2" high. Adjusted the zero until it was on target,but groups fell apart at that point. Checked breech bolt,but it was still tight.
Swapped one piece mount for rings,set rings to tug scope towards the left ,hoping to compensate. Mechanically centered the windage clickety click.
Thinking of replacing the lock washers on the breech bolt,they aren't holding it in place,perhaps something else would.
If I had the money I'd replace scope and mounts,but I don't.
Might go out and try the new setup at 15 yards.
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I have spent some time trying to get the 95 to make decent groups ,so far it isn't doing so. I did receive my order of PDG pellets. Unfortunately these pellets are grossly undersized ,at least for my rifle.So much so that one actually fell out with my noticing. I sure noticed when I fired though.
The PDGs gave pretty abysmal accuracy as you can imagine. I took some and flared the skirts so they would at least not fall out of the chamber . Four inch groups at 15 yards.
I set up my camera and video recorded the muzzle of the rifle over a five shot string. There was some muzzle movement from recoil,but I am not jerking it,or twitching the muzzle. I don't say that entirely eliminates the loose nut behind the trigger,but it's not jerking the trigger or bad follow though.
I have an order of pellets arriving on Monday H&N Sniper light,H&N Barracudas, H&N FTTs, and Air Arms Field Heavies. I try to be hopeful ,but my luck so far with air rifles hasn't been the best.
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Also might want to consider feeding her pellets that don't exceed 15 grains. according to CDT 15 grains is the max he recommends @ .22cal in a springer before spring damage would be a concern. Also you would Gain some significant Fps back into the equation. I know a lot of shooters disregard pellet weight concerns as they are willing to replace springs as needed in order to gain their desired shot. Its all up to the individual shooter:)
Here is the link to the post where CDT talks about choosing pellet weights.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=14044.msg119254#msg119254 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=14044.msg119254#msg119254)
I had to hunt down the post because I'm currently trying to find a few good pellets for my hw95. The Baracudas shoot very well but if I'm going to damage the spring then I need to find something under 16 grains.
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ShakerT44, Thanks,but I've already tested lighter weight pellets and the accuracy with them is quite poor. It sounds like you are in the same boat as I am,and I wish you luck on finding the right pellet. Be sure to check the tension of your breech bolt as this may have a major impact in how this gun shoots.
ATVB
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I had issues with a particular gun one time , did everything I could to clean up the problem. I finally let a friend ,whom I know shoots well give the gun a test, he confirmed the problem and that at least gave me comfort that it wasn`t my shooting. Maybe let someone else shoot your gun and give you an opinion.. it might be you and not the gun.
Slso change scopes to make sure that isn`t in the equation. You can borrow one maybe..
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I had issues with a particular gun one time , did everything I could to clean up the problem. I finally let a friend ,whom I know shoots well give the gun a test, he confirmed the problem and that at least gave me comfort that it wasn`t my shooting. Maybe let someone else shoot your gun and give you an opinion.. it might be you and not the gun.
Slso change scopes to make sure that isn`t in the equation. You can borrow one maybe..
Yeah man, I think it might be worth a chance and I mean no disrespect. Sometimes my buddy will grab my gun, put 5 in the same hole and look at me like I am blind LOL.
Looking at your groups you have posted, seems to me the gun wants to group, however the central point of impact changes. Unsure if your chasing zero on each target , or just shooting and it moves on you or.......? Best groups you have posted were the FTT's and that changed on each target. I'm curious what would happen if you cleaned the barrel and put a hundred of them on paper without changing anything, don't zero it, don't adjust, just shoot it. Just keep the same point of aim and watch the point of impact and see if it tracks off, or remains in a central point. Should tell you a lot about the gun and optics.
Man that gun oughta just drive tacks with something between 14 and 18 grains...at least I would think so! ???
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Newlife3,thanks,I video recorded the gun muzzle to make certain I waasn't jerking the trigger,I have no one else to shoot my guns. Already swapped scopes to check earlier in the game.
Bman, I've dropped back to 15 yards to shoot and pellet test. A new pellet order will be arriving late tomorrow so I might be able to renew testing again on Tuesday.
Today I shot H&N Barracudas 5.51 at 15 yards to see if it would group. Throughout this session I adjusted the scope down 6 clicks,which had no discernible effect. The groups are ok,I just wish I could do the same at 30 yards.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2006142015.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2006142015.jpg.html)
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Today I shot H&N Barracudas 5.51 at 15 yards to see if it would group. Throughout this session I adjusted the scope down 6 clicks,which had no discernible effect. The groups are ok,I just wish I could do the same at 30 yards.
Was that from a benchrest or artillery hold? For people new to the thread it might be helpful to include that information with any target pictures you post. If you have the time, I would just keep shooting more groups with the Baracudas until your other pellets arrive. You might get some useful information now that you found something that doesn't produce a shotgun pattern. I doubt this will help but RWS superdomes and Vortex Supremes shoot just fine in my hw95. I wish I could help more but my air rifle experience is beginner level at best.
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ShakerT44,thanks I haven't tried Superdomes yet. I do shoot from a rest,and I do use the artillery hold.
Latest pellet tests from yesterday and today.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2006172015.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2006172015.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2006172015%20002.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2006172015%20002.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2006162015.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2006162015.jpg.html)
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The AA and FTT look like they should be revisited at 30yd.
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The 'cudas and AAs look really good. I'd keep working with them.
Getting a new rifle is definitely a journey.
I have had an R9 for years and I can shoot it pretty well. I recently got an HW50, and I was a bit disappointed that it wasn't as accurate as the R9 even though it has less recoil and should allegedly be easier to shoot. However, after hundreds and hundreds of pellets, the 50s is shooting pretty awesome- maybe even better that the R9. I think a big part of it is all the practice I got as I kept testing pellets, shooting groups, and plinking with it. Realizing this, I went back and retested some of the pellets that I had poor results with in the beginning, and they shoot better now. Hmmm. I even revisited some different pellets with the R9 and found some I never knew it liked.
So keep on shooting! If shooting groups gets tedious or frustrating, just plink instead. I love just relaxing on a porch chair and popping a plastic golf ball around. It still gives opportunity to get used to the nuances of the rifle and work on technique without having every less than perfect shot staring back at me on permanent record.
Have fun!
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I love just relaxing on a porch chair and popping a plastic golf ball around. It still gives opportunity to get used to the nuances of the rifle and work on technique without having every less than perfect shot staring back at me on permanent record.
Amen
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Thanks Ratracer,I plan to try the Air Arms at 30 yards, also the H&N Barracuda, not sure about the FTTs ,but I guess I can. :)
BTW the H&N Sniper lights were a loose fit in the gun,not as loose as the PDG stuff,but loose.
Dan D thanks,the barracudas seem to loose a bit of accuracy at 30 yards,but that could be my technique getting sloppy.
Lost,me too,but it's currently 95 degrees out and too warm for me. ;)
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How goes the testing Tim?
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Ratracer,sadly,the air arms failed to group at 30. I swapped a scope from my hw77 and put it on the hw95. I did manage to get a decent group using that scope. Problem was that scope was running out of adjustment range to get on target.. I decided to invest in a good set of rings to see if I could get the hawke lined up properly on my HW95.
After getting some good advice here I bought a set of BKL rings,I'm waiting on them to arrive before I resume testing.
Thanks For Checking in on me. :)
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I hope that shakes out the woes, fellow night owl.
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TW:
Scanning through the post string again, your comments about scope adjustment and "running out of adjustment room" makes me think that you might have a scope problem, mounting issues, or rifle with considerable droop. It's also possible that you have all of these at the same time!!!
Droop can be caused by a couple different things. 1. Alignment of barrel with the action on which the scope is mounted. Solutions vary from droop adjustable/compensated mounts to bending the barrel (not for the fainthearted!). 2. Height of the scope above the bore and the short ranges that air guns are shot at. If the scope sits very high it is difficult to zero the scope within the scopes range of adjustment. The lower the better is my motto.
A second issue can be a scope one that is near the end of its adjustment range. Many have found that scope repeatability is worst near the end of its adjustment range. The mechanism inside is essentially a spring with a buffer to press the reticle tube against the elevation & windage adjustment turrets securely. If you are right at the end of the travel the spring tension is not enough to hold it securely. Many air gun shooters use adjustable mounts that allow them to rough adjust the zero by moving the windage and elevation adjustments on the bases with the scope crosshairs optically centered in the tube. This puts the scope adjustments in its "sweet spot." Final adjustments are done with the turrets.
It is also possible that the recoil from the springer has damaged the scope - springers are famous for that!! Does the scope exhibit any parallax? Test that by looking at a target through the scope and moving your head around. If the cross hairs appear to move on the target the parallax is out of whack or the scope is damaged. Adjustable Objective scopes allow you to adjust the parallax to the desired range. Have you any evidence that the scope is moving in the mounts? I put a pencil mark or a very small dimple with a sharp pointed awl on the tube and bases to give me a witness mark that nothing is moving. I personally use a Wheeler FAT wrench to torque my scope mounts to the rifle and to the scope tube accurately.
There are lots of articles on scope mounting, droop adjustment, optical centering of scopes, etc. Google on air rifle droop for a start. Pyramyd Air has a whole series on these issues. Many posts and strings have gone through these issues exhaustively.
I'll bet you have looked at all these but thought I would chip them in - just in case.
Cheers.
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dtdtdtdt,I have considered a great many things getting this gun to "fly right",but I have narrowed the issues down. The Nikko Stirling was hitting low and to the right. Despite all adjustment. I grabbed the Hawke Sport hd off my HW77 and put it in on the HW95,mount and all. I discovered I was hitting too far to the left. The groups were better though.
I thought about it a while and decided to proceed on the basis that the NS was out of whack. I still was thinking about the right/left thing and decided to eliminate the one piece mounts and buy a high quality set of rings.
The bkl rings are supposedly engineered to center the scope rather than pull it off to one side or the other,which is what I think the previous mounts were doing.
I hope to get out tomorrow and test my theory,all else fails I can always buy a new barrel. Or take up bird watching...
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Shot HW95 at 30 yards using Air Arms Field Heavies. It was hitting well off to the right,I adjusted for that ,hitting a little high,adjusted for that. I then put five pellets into each target,They are quite respectable groups. I would like to post the target,but photobucket is having issues right now. I'll try to get it posted later.
So the issue was scope and/or mount related. Meaning the Nikko Stirling was shifting zero on me. Also the mounts were probably not the best.
I think I can shrink the groups a bit more with minor adjustments and judicial tightening of the loose nut behind the trigger. ;)
Hopefully I can resume testing pellets sometime this week.
Ok,finally got photobucket to cooperate.
You'll see the target has a line cutting across and bisecting a Z,those shots are when I was zeroing the scope,it was well off to the right and a bit high. I got it close than shot five pellets into each target. There is room for improvement,but at least I am shooting straighter.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2007052015.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2007052015.jpg.html)
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Glad your getting it lined out, then you can just enjoy! ;)
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Thanks Bman, hoping I'm getting closer to the point I can actually enjoy shooting this gun. :)
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That's great news, now drive those tacks!! :)
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Good to hear that you are moving in the right direction!
I think that i got that you are shooting from a rest? One thing that I have noticed that is different with my .22 R9 vs. my .177 95s is that the .22 is very specific to where it will group well when rested. My .177s do better the closer I rest to the trigger guard with the best rested groups being where the trigger guard is touching the bag. The .22 is NOT the same even tough it's the same action BUT at full power compared to the tuned down .177 95s.
The .22 likes to be rested farther forward on the stock, at least a hand width away from the trigger guard. I have also noted that all of my springers shoot tighter with a heavier bag that is softer, with some of the filler out so that it crushes down more and cradles the rifle vs stiff the rifle just resting on it. Hope that made sense?
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff95/Line_man01/IMG_3318_zpsgqrcx4pd.jpg) (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/Line_man01/media/IMG_3318_zpsgqrcx4pd.jpg.html)
This is a poor example of the difference in groupings (10 shots,30yds) but it's what I have to show so you will have to take my word but, the group on the left is rested by the trigger guard. See how the grouping is more spread out?
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff95/Line_man01/IMG_3319_zpspfjzsp6a.jpg) (http://s236.photobucket.com/user/Line_man01/media/IMG_3319_zpspfjzsp6a.jpg.html)
The one on the right is with a hand width spaced away from the trigger guard. Other than the two holes on the outside, 8 pellets went into the larger group in the center. Overall the groups are close to the same if measured outside to outside but the main group was tight compared to he other.
These were shot quickly to give an example of how experimenting with the resting point on the rifle can change how the pellets group.
All that to say, don't give up! You will master that rifle and then you will be shooting one holers at 50 blind folded, upside down and backwards! Ha ha! ;)
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nah. Not upside down and backwards just free standing and barefoot on hot coals maybe. lol
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Hmmmm,Brett and Hoffy,you forgot to mention to mention having a savage badger hung about my neck while zeroing the gun. ;)
Tried a hold where I'm about a handspan from the trigger guard,currently resting the gun on my hand about an inch from the trigger guard. Will consider experimenting.
Today I tried the standard issue (not sized) H&N Barracudas in the HW95. The groups were not as good as the air arms unfortunately. I had two decent groups of five shots,one 3/4" and one 1". The other groups were not bad,just not as small or had a flyer.
I suspect if I used a sized version it might tighten those groups a bit. Hopefully I can try H&N FTTs tomorrow.
I find the adjustable recoil pad helps me put the stock in place the same every time. I would like to remove about an inch from it to help with scope eye relief... Also it would be nice to have a proper sling fitted. Too soon for that though...
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Funny you should say that. I haven't posted yet, but last Friday I installed a Rowan adjustable butt pad on my 95 and I plan on cutting off at least the amount it grew. Have had family in town so hopefully by next week. The offset really helps but I need that scope closer to my eye. I'll have to fit and re polish the aluminum to the rifle stock though.
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Heard rowan's were very nice,but I'm cheap and poor:) . I bought a Bisley pad,not as nice ,but it works pretty good. Trying to avoid doing anything to void the warranty before the year is out. Problem with warranty is if you look too hard at the gun the warranty is void. :(
I checked and I have ,5.51 and 5.53 Barracudas I can test and some H&N FTTs,as well as the Sniper Lights. I could try the PDGs again,but I think they are a lost cause.
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Same boat. Cheap and poor. Just said the heck with it, closed my eyes, clicked the button and treated myself. I don't do that very often. It's back to the pellet hunt for you I see. Good luck!
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Posting here the latest pellet test targets.The first is from 07/06/2015 I was shooting at 30yds with standard (not match) H&N Barracudas,I did make some elevation adjustments while I was shooting.
The second is from today at 30yds using Match Barracudas in 5.51. Sadly was not shooting my best today,it was hot and my pulse was interfering with my crosshairs. ;)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2007062015.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2007062015.jpg.html)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k244/1coldsoul/HW95L%20target%2007072015.jpg) (http://s90.photobucket.com/user/1coldsoul/media/HW95L%20target%2007072015.jpg.html)