GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Beeman Airguns => Topic started by: Privateer on March 24, 2014, 05:07:58 PM
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Just got this in a trade here at GTA.
Now I was fully aware it needed looked at and I am happy with the trade.
I wanted something to work on and this fits that urge perfectly.
8)
1st thing I did was a visual inspection. Given I had advance notice that it needs work I looked for the obvious.
It appeared to have alot of 'goop' near the breach, breach seal looked bad, and there's a chunk of seal in the barrel.
I'd suspect a part of the piston seal but haven't fished that out yet.
I've taken it down to just the compression chamber/trigger so far.
I'm inspecting every part and plan to replace some simple things like the 'Jesus' clips.
Those are the little c-clip things that shoot across the room at times causeing you to say stuff like "Jesus! Where did that go?"
;D
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Hope you plan on keeping us up on your progress. I'd like to see how this turns out.
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I'm really interested to see how it goes.
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Now that I'm down to just the compression tube I removed the rear Cap.
The pin drives out from the right side if in the fireing position.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1032.jpg)
Be aware that there is a nut in this cap! So don't do like I did and hear something hitting the floor and go Uh oh!
Then spend the next hour on hands and knees looking for it.
;D
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1034.jpg)
Here's a shot down the tube. This shows why We need to make an adapter of some sorts for a compressor.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1033.jpg)
I'll make one out of an old socket useing a 4 1/2" grinder with a cut off wheel.
Now I go through more of those wheels in a year then most will ever go through in a life time! (I buy them by the hundreds!)
I always wear my Kevlar arm sleeves, heavy gloves, and a full face shield as they can explode like a bomb if your not very careful.
:o
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I bought one new at Walmart on Black Friday for $98 and I'm glad I did. I tore it down and did all the sanding, polishing and lubing that I do to all my guns. I've always had the .22 barrel on it and it's a hammer. I made the same adaptor from a socket for my compressor that you spoke of. The trigger is heavy and can use some help and it takes 2 men and a boy to cock it but, it shoots about anything I put in it. It absolutely loves the GAMO TS22 22gr pellets. If I put 50 shots through this thing I feel like I wrestled an alligator. It's as heavy as a semi-truck with the CP Adventure scope on it and it kicks like a mule. The black and polished steel is an impressive look and the muzzle break looks cool. 1 set screw swaps the barrel in less than a minute. I really like the gun but forget lugging this guy around in the woods or shooting it off hand. Looking forward to seeing how you end up with your's.
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One thing you ought to know once you start shooting the gun: for me both barrels by far shot Crosman Premier Ultra Magnums the best. I was getting very good groups with them.
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One thing you ought to know once you start shooting the gun: for me both barrels by far shot Crosman Premier Ultra Magnums the best. I was getting very good groups with them.
Well just by coinsidence, Big Brown dropped off 2500 of them in .22 today.... lucky me.
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After a 'secret search'? I found my dremel cut off wheels.
I say secret 'cause the Wife has a habit of moving my stuff.
::)
I wasn't about to ask where they were as a lecture usually follows.
;D
I can finish the 19mm socket now!
8)
While doing that crazy search?
I closely examined the 'mystery' trigger as there doesn't seem to be any really good images of it tore down?
Once I get to it I'm debateing doing several things......
Make a jig like thing with clear plastic of some type for good pictures is a for sure thing.
Another thing I'm thinking is to do alot of pictures and convert to a 3D model.
(I model in 3D as a hobby also)
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Looking forward to this, my trigger could use some help. From what I understand, there are no less than 3 trigger setups in these things. To be honest, all I've done is a bit of moly paste.
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From looking at it? It's a pretty simple setup for the most part.
The springs and such are hidden due to the folded design of the houseing.
That's why I think a clear plastic jig would help alot of people in the future.
At lest enuff to show placement of parts and what areas may need attention for polishing?
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From looking at it? It's a pretty simple setup for the most part.
The springs and such are hidden due to the folded design of the houseing.
That's why I think a clear plastic jig would help alot of people in the future.
At lest enuff to show placement of parts and what areas may need attention for polishing?
Hey Jeff, I have the Grizzly X2 which has that same trigger in it. If memory serves me correct, all I did was remove that screw and spring that's shown in your pic, and it made a pretty nice trigger out of it. I've shot several hundred rounds with no issues. I was so pleased with it I never even got inside the trigger housing.
Jerry
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Socket adapter done. The tape was used to test the fit. It's too snug with one layer of it.
Just right without it. :D
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1035.jpg)
The inside needed touched up a tad to clear the trigger houseing. A little dremel work took care of that.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1036.jpg)
Started into place.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1038.jpg)
And touching the Spring plate I have this much left for compression.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1037.jpg)
I tested by placeing my body weight against it and it's perfect for me.
On to setting up a safe compressor now.
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I came up with a compressor idea based on what I have at hand.
I have a bending machine bolted into the floor in my basement. It's a heavy duty piece of work!
I have a screw jack and the compression tube set in place for this picture that should give you an idea of what I'm going to do.
;D
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1040.jpg)
2X4's and ratchet straps will secure things once I get busy.
I don't suggest this for general work, but for a one off Gun?
I know it will work safely once everything is in place.
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Jeff, if you don't mind, I would like to see a pic of how far the spring sticks out of the compression tube after the pressure is released.
One other thing, did you notice any benefit of using the 19mm socket over the 3/4" one that others have used??
Thanks,
Jerry
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I'll get good pics for all.
My choice of the 19 mm was base on a scientific approach.
I walked into the back room and wiggled it in the compression chamber.
The benefits? I have more 19mm deep wells then 3/4 deep wells.
;D
Mine is hand done but I can provide dimensions so one could do a Mill work version.
It's a BlackHawk 19mm 6 Point Socket - part # HW- 1519M
It needed dremel work on the inside to clear as there is a 'shoulder' up a bit.
A 12 point socket may not need the dremel work but I don't use a 12 point in anything I do.
They stripped to quickly and don't have the 'beef' I need in my line of work.
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I love these tutorials! They show just what a man can do when presented a issue and his means to solve the problem! Keep us informed.
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I love these tutorials! They show just what a man can do when presented a issue and his means to solve the problem! Keep us informed.
I plan to. Thanks.
:D
The trigger area I've started drawings of for spring positions.
I also started setting up the tri-pod for takeing pictures. That way it's all at the same scale.
(Until I trip over it and mess things up!)
I've read everything here at GTA about this trigger and I can only conclude?
After spending days looking at it it's a one stage.
Yes you have a sweep until you hit the contact but it's not what I'll ever call a 2 stage.
I'm ready to get it out and get a good break down with a working jig so we can finally look at this thing!
I've seen the backwards motion needed but never seen it mentioned when cocking?
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Spring at it's no tension point.
From the cylinder to the black mark on the socket is 2 3/8th inches.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1041.jpg)
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Fun guns once you get past the spring removal tool.
Put together a breakdown tutorial on em awhile ago. The dimensions for the adapter are pretty much included in photo's.
http://freelancewritingpromotions.com/rs2.doc (http://freelancewritingpromotions.com/RS2.doc)
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That ones a saver! Thanks Paul.
;D
Shots of the seal.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1043.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1044.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1045.jpg)
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That ones a saver! Thanks Paul.
;D
Shots of the seal.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1043.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1044.jpg)
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1045.jpg)
Is there something wrong with the seal? That's what I was thinking was the main thing wrong with it.
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I've seen worse. If I didn't have a replacement on hand for that one, I'd probably clean it up a bit and use it til I got one.
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It's not too hard to make adapters to allow the use of aftermarket seals.
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The seal is toast. The whole piston/seal assembly dropped out without me touching it and there was a LOT of old lube on the face of the seal.
The smashed up mess on the face is from a burr on the gas port. Had the same thing on the Hatsan. I'll deburr it before I hone.
Paul, that's a nice job! What seal did you use?
I'm also wondering about the 1/8 inch difference on the spring preload I have and what is listed in your document.
Is it possible the spring has lost that much?
On another note?
As I deburred the gas port I see that it's off center. The picture is blurry but you can see how off it is.
I'm I a bit anal about this from the old 'port and polish' days of engine building?
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1047.jpg)
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I wouldn't worry too much about preload differences. Spring age and shot count probably changes what the eventual length will be when you remove and replace em.
The seal and adapter in the pic was for my 2000 JET. It has the same piston and seal design as the RS2 guns like yours, but the seal is larger so I used one for a Hatsan 125. I have read that the Apex small seals from ARH are too small for the Beemans, so it might be best to try the Apex large, or order one of both the Apex large and small to be safe. The seal I used in my RS2 is an OEM unit, but I plan on changing it out to a ARH seal eventually.
The hardest part about making an adapter is getting the mounting hole correctly centered. It has to be centered and the head area countersunk just right so the screw head is flush with the adapter and just a thousandth or so inset from the outside edge of the seal to prevent metal to metal contact when the piston reaches the end of the chamber.
I make mine using lug nuts, a drill press, files, and a dremel tool ;)
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I got a 125 seal around here some where.
And I have a friend that owes me a favor or two that happens to own a lathe and mill.
I think I'll call in a favor.
;D
I couldn't get the screw off the end of the piston so I cut the seal off.
I think a little heat will loosen the screw now that the seal is gone?
When replaceing the screw and seal. Blue Lock tight?
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I meant I used a 125 seal for the Jet. The Beeman is smaller and will take one of the Apex seals
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I see. I think I'll just call Beeman and see about seals for this.
I'll also check things on the rebuild and maybe shim the spring. I know that's a whole new can-o-worms but ya got's to learn some how.
:)
I started takeing the trigger apart and have a few thoughts on it.
You can see the black rubber plug removed from it's hole. It was only as wide as the trigger but if it was a little longer it could take up some side to side slack. The screw driver is holding tension on a part I didn't want to just go snap.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1048.jpg)
In this view you can see the pin that the 'tensioning stuff' rides on. I'll increase the length with a new roll pin to more closely match the inside dimensions of the trigger houseing.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1050.jpg)
I like stainless steel so the 'Jesus clips' are getting replaced also.
There is a lot of slop on the pivot pin of the trigger. I'll go through the stainless steel rods I have and may replace it if I have a tighter fit.
The 'tensioning stuff' removed.
The screw and spring could be removed as there is a hefty spring still in place around the pivot pin.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1051.jpg)
The forks are what slides on the roll pin of the trigger incase you wondered.
Safety lever and components removed next. Without the trigger in place all tension is removed.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1052.jpg)
The last part pulled out. This locks the piston back and shows the slotted area I wondered about.
Spring and pin is not in the picture cause if you made it here? You'll know.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/100_1053.jpg)
There's very few places to polish from my amatuer look but a few I think can be improved.
I'm setting up my picture takeing machine on this new fangled 'tri-pod' thing I heard about.
(OK. Wife said 'Hey! Mr. Genious! Would this help?' :))
Then from good pictures , I'll place things for a better image of how it all works.
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I'm starting with the trigger houseing. This is a stamped then bent deal.
From the rear where the tensioning adjustment screw is to the front?
Check it! Mine has a pretty obvious not square thing going on.
This may not be important but I'm a bit Anal so it's 'Hammer Time'.
;)
I'll bap it a few times with the trusty Estwing and then deburr the inside near all holes and edges.
There's a lot of sharp edges due to stamping and springs rub on those. It's like Saws!
I'll also check and deburr all the parts as the dental probe I use tells me 'There be burrs here!'
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Just finished talking to the Guy at Beeman for parts.
Got piston seals, breech seals, and a new spring ordered.
I figured a new spring will give us some information down the road and it's a spare tradeing part anyway.
Plus a new spring will give off the shelf results.
I tried to order the whole trigger assembly but they don't have those.
He's also checking out this thread as I pointed it out to him.
8)
I did ask for a parts list or a breakdown with part numbers we could look at and he said they don't have one.
Crazy eh? Got to say this is just the kind of rebuild I wanted. Something with a challenge where information is scarce.
;D
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I emailed them inquiring about seals and shipping. Also asked about a parts list. Haven't heard anything from them yet so it looks like I'll have to call. Do you care to divulge the prices and what shipping is going to be??
Jerry
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That my friend looks A LOT like a Crosman B18/19 trigger assembly.
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I emailed them inquiring about seals and shipping. Also asked about a parts list. Haven't heard anything from them yet so it looks like I'll have to call. Do you care to divulge the prices and what shipping is going to be??
Jerry
$6.00 each for the piston seals and $18.00 for a new spring. He's throwing in a few breech seals.
I don't recall the total for shipping but I'll check and let you know.
Paul,
That is close indeed!
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PA shipped the chrony today.
8)
I'll be able to see real information one the new seals and spring now.
Once the stuff from Beeman comes in I'll order the Tar (Don't have any) and some Apex seals to play with.
Along with shimming the 2 springs compared to not shimming? Sounds like some nice fun.
Fixed the slight bend in the trigger houseing and deburred it all. There were a few very sharp areas that could cause a cut if handled wrong.
I get cut up enuff doing demo work so I'm kind of careful about things like this.
;)
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But, but, but, you still haven't said what shipping was from Beeman. ;D ;D
Also, have you got the seal screw out of the piston yet, and how did you do it??
Jerry
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I was doing several things at the same time I ordered from Beeman and didn't write it down.
Once it shows on my bank statement I'll let you know.
:D
I'm going to heat the screw and see how that goes. I cut the seal off with a (GASP!) Stanley 10-499 knife.
;D
Probably should have ordered an extra screw as I plan on checking out the Apex seal also.
I may just deepen the slot with a dremel before I remove it.
I wanted an extra Trigger assembly in case I mess up the original parts.
The 'Second Stage' pull seems long to me and I have a thought on changeing that I'd like to try.
If it don't work as I'm thinking? I'll need parts.
I may trace and cut/grind a new piece to work with.
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I'm not going to order anytime soon, but I did find parts a little cheaper than what you quoted, so I'll wait and see if the shipping is a killer or not. Depending on how your luck goes with the screw, I may have to put one of those on the list also.
I did get my takedown tool made thanks to you and Paul's guidance/instructions.
Jerry
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I was wondering if you knew what was used to make the silver coating on the Kodiak. Silver paint or is it chromed?
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You can get a new trigger from beeman but you have to send the receiver tube to them to install. 25 plus 10 for return shipping.
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I was wondering if you knew what was used to make the silver coating on the Kodiak. Silver paint or is it chromed?
Nickel plated.
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Maybe a little off subject but does anybody know if a brushed nickle paint and plenty of clearcoat could re-create that look?
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Maybe a little off subject but does anybody know if a brushed nickle paint and plenty of clearcoat could re-create that look?
Polish up a piece of steel and try it
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Good idea.
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I've been following this thread so I'd be ready when/if my spring broke. The WHEN happened today. Lost 150fps so I tore it down and found a busted spring. At least I had my teardown tool built and was ready for it. Got the parts ordered from Beeman. At least they threw in some breech seals and a piston seal screw to sweeten the deal. The darn rifle had less than 3000 rounds thru it, but I guess that's par for an inexpensive rifle.
It's all your fault Jeff. The rifle was fine till I started following this thread. ;) ;D ;D
Jerry
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I've been following this thread so I'd be ready when/if my spring broke. The WHEN happened today. Lost 150fps so I tore it down and found a busted spring. At least I had my teardown tool built and was ready for it. Got the parts ordered from Beeman. At least they threw in some breech seals and a piston seal screw to sweeten the deal. The darn rifle had less than 3000 rounds thru it, but I guess that's par for an inexpensive rifle.
It's all your fault Jeff. The rifle was fine till I started following this thread. ;) ;D ;D
Jerry
Well the one I used to have (the one Jeff has now) had its piston seal go bad in only ~1000 shots. But I think he'll turn it into a nice rifle he'll be happy with.
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Well the one I used to have (the one Jeff has now) had its piston seal go bad in only ~1000 shots. But I think he'll turn it into a nice rifle he'll be happy with.
Funny thing is, my seal looked good, a whole bunch better than some I've replaced. Still don't know why they can't come up with a more durable spring. This thing hasn't been abused and only shot .22cal 14.3gr thru it.
Oh well,
Jerry
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Oh! Bad luck Jerry! Just glad the info for the socket adapter was provided by Paul.
8)
On the piston seal in this AG, you can see the smashed and mashed area in the pictures.
That was where the port had a chunk of metal sticking out. (The Hatsan I have had the same thing)
Once it started breaking down it left bits of metal in the compression chamber. Some you can see embedded in the seal.
One piece took a chunk out of the edge and allowed lube past and then detonation fried the seal.
I have a 18 1/4 inch long drill bit I changed the angle on a bit to remove any burrs left on the port.
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Heavy tar on those springs seems to help alot.
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Oh! Bad luck Jerry! Just glad the info for the socket adapter was provided by Paul.
8)
On the piston seal in this AG, you can see the smashed and mashed area in the pictures.
That was where the port had a chunk of metal sticking out. (The Hatsan I have had the same thing)
Once it started breaking down it left bits of metal in the compression chamber. Some you can see embedded in the seal.
One piece took a chunk out of the edge and allowed lube past and then detonation fried the seal.
I have a 18 1/4 inch long drill bit I changed the angle on a bit to remove any burrs left on the port.
Now that you point that out, I think I have the same problem. It appears something has been eating at the center of the seal. I'll compare it to the new one and decide then what to do. Take a look at the pic while I ponder the situation over a cool one.
Jerry
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Heavy tar on those springs seems to help alot.
You're probably right. How many buckets of tar do you think it'll take to fix this. ;D ;D
Jerry
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Oh! Bad luck Jerry! Just glad the info for the socket adapter was provided by Paul.
8)
On the piston seal in this AG, you can see the smashed and mashed area in the pictures.
That was where the port had a chunk of metal sticking out. (The Hatsan I have had the same thing)
Once it started breaking down it left bits of metal in the compression chamber. Some you can see embedded in the seal.
One piece took a chunk out of the edge and allowed lube past and then detonation fried the seal.
I have a 18 1/4 inch long drill bit I changed the angle on a bit to remove any burrs left on the port.
Now that you point that out, I think I have the same problem. It appears something has been eating at the center of the seal. I'll compare it to the new one and decide then what to do. Take a look at the pic while I ponder the situation over a cool one.
Jerry
Very common on these guns. The erosion at the area where the seal meets the port is most likely due to the heavy dieseling these guns are prone to when new. The combustion of the oils at the exit point of the port slowly eats at the seal material because the small diameter of the screw compared to typical seal buttons exposes more of the seal area to that effect so close to the port. After rebuilds, proper lubing, and new seals I haven't seen this continue to occur.
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Thanks Paul, that does make sense. Unlike the Crosman pistons, this one has an end that is free to rotate which probably makes it even worse.
Jerry
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I bought one of these about 3 months ago . mine seems to really like the rws superdomes in both calibers.
mounted a cp 4-16 on a one piece mount. am ooking forward to doing a tune on this rifle.
finaly got to shoot some the otherday and at 10 yd whith rws domes .22 cal from a rest was able to make one big hole.
this rifle sure shoots better than I do . I am really happy whith it sofar.
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Now that you point that out, I think I have the same problem.
I took some of the bits of metal embedded in my seal out and checked with a magnet to be sure it wasn't lead maybe sucked back into the chamber from rebounding.
You can see in my image it's a very deep impact a number of times where yours shows what Paul pointed out.
I took a small piece of wire and checked the inside edge and could feel what burr was left.
The long drill bit fixed that.
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I checked the port and no burrs, so I'm good to go there. I did have a lot of dieseling in the beginning. I think it took a tin (500) of pellets before it stopped. I guess the broken spring was telling me it's time for a lube/tune. ::) If I do it right, maybe the new seal won't get that way and the spring won't break as soon. Not sure what the mileage is supposed to be on springs, but hope the new one will last longer than 3000 rounds. I don't want to have to replace it every 3 months if I can keep from it. :P
Just an FYI, I've only used CP 14.3's in this rifle. None lighter and none heavier.
Jerry
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If you clean it up, smooth everything, and lube it lightly with moly you should have no problems with heavy dieseling, although it will still take about 100 shots to seat the seal well before all dieseling stops. The OEM seals are ok, but nowhere near the quality of an aftermarket from Vortek or ARH. Still, I don't think you'll have any problems with seal erosion after a basic cleanup and moly lube.
I've had the same stock spring in mine for around a year now, and probably 3k shots on it, still going strong. My gun has been cleaned up, lube tuned, trigger worked, barrel chopped, recrowned, loading port smoothed, and shrouded. It has a stock OEM replacement spring and seal. The spring is actually an old one that had been removed because it was down on power. I mounted the spring on a steel rod, heated it to cherry red with a torch, oil quenched it, and then did some mild tempering to remove the brittleness. It surprised me by producing 18 fpe and staying there for over 3,000 shots. I still need to get around to refinishing the stock.
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Jeff, you never said if you got your seal screw loose or not. I'm curious because mine was tight but unscrewed fine. You asked a few posts back about loctite for this screw. Did you ever get an answer?? Mine had no signs of anything on it. Oh yeah, got any parts yet?? Mine won't be shipped til Monday.
Paul, my rifle looks like yours except when I shortened the barrel I installed an Air Venturi ported muzzlebrake. Did the trigger, loading port and crown. Now it looks like I'll do all the inside stuff. Hope the new spring holds up cause I know nothing about heat treating a spring. I'd probably end up melting it. :P
Jerry
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I emailed a guy from utube that says I can install a spring from a tf 89 or an ar1000 that should boost the power.
don't know if this is accurate or not as I am new to springers. would just like to boost the power for the .22 cal
as that is what I shoot the most.have you had any luck getting the muzzlebrakes off? was looking at mine and
itapears that there is a red locktight along whith the set screw holding it on. would like to get it off and not mess it up
so I can recrown the barrel.i have about 600 rounds through mine now and it shoots well seems to have a decent amount of power
would like to find someone whith a crony to see what it is doing as I shoot mostly rws superdomes. any help would be greatly appreciated. im glad you did this thred on a tear down am enjoying it very much.
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Jerry,
I haven't messed with the seal screw yet. I tried before I cut the seal off and it wouldn't budge. I'll use blue locktite just to be safe.
grizz,
I'd get specs on the spring before I ordered one. Maybe Paul has more info about this?
Since I did order a new spring to check against the old one? I may do the heat and oil quench like Paul said and see if there's a difference.
The new chrony will come in handy and I'd offer you access to mine but your a bit of a drive away.
;D
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Retempering the spring was really an experiment for me and it takes a little finesse. You have to do the initial heat and quench, then another light heating not allowing it to get past around 500 degrees to get rid of the brittleness, then letting it cool off as slowly as possible. Fun experiment though if you have a new spring coming and aren't worried about the old spring failing.
The only aftermarket spring I know of for these guns is the E8970 spring from Air Rifle Headquarters. Otherwise you're stuck using an OEM spring.
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/6825218.htm (http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251488/6825218.htm)
The stock RS2 spring (same spring for AR 1000 and TF89) should be around 44-46 coils, .120" diam wire, .465 inner diam, .717 outer diam, 12-12.5" free length un-set. I give "should be" measurements because I have seen some variation in new OEM springs.
The stock spring will have a compressed height of around 5.28" to 5.52" depending on number of coils (44 or 46), the ARH spring will have a compressed height of 4.68", so it might need shimming. I believe the ARH spring is better quality material and has a greater pitch, which lets it produce more power despite having fewer coils.
The problem with the Beeman RS2 guns is the spring is an unusual small diameter design. It isn't too hard to make larger guides to run a larger spring, but the inside diameter of the piston pretty much kills any chance of doing that. So you're stuck trying to find a small diam spring that will fit within the piston.
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Paul,
What did you heat the spring in/with?
I have a wood burner out back that can heat the whole spring at once and doing multi-quenches wouldn't be much trouble.
(Throw up the yard lamps and tell the Wife it's 'our night in Spring'? I'm good. ;D)
Also a good reason to buy a remote temp thingy!
8)
Oh. I'll measure the spring I have now and the new one and post.
Note that the original spring is easily bent!
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/Spring-original.jpg)
Now I'm not a spring expert but this seems way wrong to me.
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Yeah, the specs on the new spring before installation would be greatly appreciated. I never did measure any of mine.
I heated my spring using a torch and steel rod to keep the spring straight. Pure garage level science over here ;)
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Pure garage level science over here ;)
Man after my own heart.
;D
I grabbed the wood burner when Dad went to propane for his garage. I use it a lot to preheat before bending stuff.
It's got a glass door so I can watch things and convince the Wife it's a romantic evening.
;D
(Don't tell her!)
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My old spring is straight as an arrow............................both pieces of it!!! :o ;D ;D
Jerry
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I remember my dad used to make gun springs he would heat to point of iridecec ( no longer magnetic ) quench in oil to harden
then he would dip it into molten lead for about 15 seconds. said it would make the spring not so brittle.they were mostly flat springs
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My old spring is straight as an arrow............................both pieces of it!!! :o ;D ;D
;D
Mine was too. I bent it by hand with very little effort! That surprised the Huh? outta me.
I didn't go nuts trying to bend it. Just took it about 30 degrees with no effort and it was bent.
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I think we might be in trouble on getting the springs in a timely manner. I was told mine would ship Monday, but nothing on the card yet. Maybe someone will chime in here on a good replacement part from other sources. The arrow guy is out of stock as well, so that's out.
You have any idea of other springs that would work? I can't come up with any clone rifles that share the same one.
Jerry
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New spring and seals came in today. Still no charge on my CC.
???
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I think we might be in trouble on getting the springs in a timely manner. I was told mine would ship Monday, but nothing on the card yet. Maybe someone will chime in here on a good replacement part from other sources. The arrow guy is out of stock as well, so that's out.
You have any idea of other springs that would work? I can't come up with any clone rifles that share the same one.
Jerry
You could try dealing directly with Beeman. Marksman products in Cali I believe is their distributor. As I mentioned earlier, there are few options with springs, which makes tuning these a challenge.
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I think we might be in trouble on getting the springs in a timely manner. I was told mine would ship Monday, but nothing on the card yet. Maybe someone will chime in here on a good replacement part from other sources. The arrow guy is out of stock as well, so that's out.
You have any idea of other springs that would work? I can't come up with any clone rifles that share the same one.
Jerry
You could try dealing directly with Beeman. Marksman products in Cali I believe is their distributor. As I mentioned earlier, there are few options with springs, which makes tuning these a challenge.
I ordered from the 800 number at the bottom of this link because everyone else was out of stock. http://www.beeman.com/store/?ret_id=1240879 (http://www.beeman.com/store/?ret_id=1240879) I think it is Beeman direct. I know one thing, they don't respond to emails. Not near as good as Crosman. This will be my last Beeman for sure.
Jerry
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I called the 562-968-5891 number on the back of the manual.
Parts are here and still not showing on my CC.
:o
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How many days did it take?? I'll give it a few more before I call the other number.
Jerry
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I ordered it March 31st.
Maybe not the fastest but if they did it as a warranty thing?
I'm not sending it back.
;D
Old on right. New on left.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/Old-New.jpg)
There's no sign of wear on the Old spring, as to length, after 1000 shots.
Seal? Yes, I can see the difference. The new seal will be tighter on install as it has a nice lip to break in.
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Piston seal bad in 1000 shots and spring busted in 3000 ? Hmmmmm ???
I bought my Silver Kodiak dual from WalleyWorld and only paid $97 for it, but that's only 2-6 tins of pellets before running into major problems ? Hmmmmm . . . . is that usual for these air rifles ? This is the first more powerful air gun that I've owned. All my other shooting sticks are powder burners.
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I'm going to say. Given many probably buy and once it goes bad?
It's a yard sell item or trashed? It may be an over looked platform to mod.
I say that because it's easy to follow what has already been done for many AG's.
Yea. I can buy a Nitro Venom and repeat everything already done.
And get the same results most likely.
This Kodiak is a strange beast that given Wally World and others sold seems to be a high volume mover?
Where's the real world, dig into it, answers?
I'm kind of inclined to think GTA will be where those answers are found.
I traded a perfectly good 1322 for a troubled Silver Kodiak with expectations of time, thought, and mistakes, to make it better.
Not to mentions the money that I didn't seem to get charged for.
Thank you Beeman!
Am I the only one that sees a wide open platform to play with?
Yours is not busted is it?
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Piston seal bad in 1000 shots and spring busted in 3000 ? Hmmmmm ???
I bought my Silver Kodiak dual from WalleyWorld and only paid $97 for it, but that's only 2-6 tins of pellets before running into major problems ? Hmmmmm . . . . is that usual for these air rifles ? This is the first more powerful air gun that I've owned. All my other shooting sticks are powder burners.
Sam, keep in mind, we're only 2 out of the probably hundreds of thousands that are out there. Don't sell yours short unless it turns into a problem child for you. Mine is a great shooter when it's not ailing.
Jerry
Might mention, I have a safe full of powder burners also, and some of them required some work to make shooters out of them.
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I ordered it March 31st.
Maybe not the fastest but if they did it as a warranty thing?
I'm not sending it back.
;D
Old on right. New on left.
(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Air%20Rifles/Beeman/Old-New.jpg)
There's no sign of wear on the Old spring, as to length, after 1000 shots.
Seal? Yes, I can see the difference. The new seal will be tighter on install as it has a nice lip to break in.
Oh I put probably about 1600 (maybe more) or so shots through it total...so I'm astonished at the good condition that spring is in!
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Paul has posted some really good advice and knowledge about seals and springs.
I'm going to order the Apex seals now and grab that spring also. E whatever blah, blah.
;D
I'm finishing up the deburr and polish on the trigger parts before they all get PTFE coated.
(This stuff is from 1996. So if you see a Mushroom cloud in the direction of Ohio? Sorry.)
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Privateer - thank you for a great thread ! Like others, I've been following your progress & am learning a lot.
And thanks guys for your comments to my post above. No, I haven't had any problems with my Silver Kodiak dual. Only have maybe 400-450 shots through it (less than a full tin of pellets). I've been very impressed by its accuracy with targets out to 100 yards.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread, but since I'm still within the first 30 days since buying from WalleyWorld I was wondering if it might be wise to return it and get something that will last longer. But, maybe the early failures at 1000 and 3000 shots were unusual. I'll have to do more reading here on the forums. Thank you again.
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Sam,
If your getting good accuracy at 100 yards? Sounds like a keeper to me!
Makes me want to get this one back together even more.
:D
If it can take a bottle at 70+ yards when done? I'll be happy.
I get 2" groups at that distance with the .25 Hatsan. (On a good shootin' day)
I'm pretty sure a better scope will shrink that. (old eyes don't work as well as they use to)
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My Dad had one [the white one in the pic] and I saw him shoot cans at 90 yards. He would shoot the diamond on cards at 50. He would be mad if he missed. I remember him cussing and saying he was tired of breakbarrels. Now that I'm into them I think that would be awesome.
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My thinking is "What if Danial Boone got a bad gun?"
Say he did but was many miles from his nearest WalMart?
Oops. No WalMart back then and that means he didn't have an SUV to take it back.
It's to easy now days to exchange &^^& so no reason to make it right the first time if the final costs don't work.
In the long run? I don't see anything getting better due to 'Bean Counters'.
The massive amounts of re-calls on Cars should show you that trend!
Fix it when We get Caught!
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Sam, the Beeman guns are actually pretty good buys. Broken springs aren't that common. The big issues with them is the same as the other Chinese guns, and even some Turkish and higher end rifles, those being a lot of twang and piston seals damaged during factory assembly. When you get a good one, the twanginess smooths out a bit (but never really disappears) and the seal will last for well past 3k shots. These Beemans though really shine when given some attention such as a smoothing, proper lube, and new seals.
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Sam,
If your getting good accuracy at 100 yards? Sounds like a keeper to me!
Makes me want to get this one back together even more.
:D
If it can take a bottle at 70+ yards when done? I'll be happy.
I get 2" groups at that distance with the .25 Hatsan. (On a good shootin' day)
I'm pretty sure a better scope will shrink that. (old eyes don't work as well as they use to)
Hi Privateer - - yes I was shooting balloons 4" & 5" across at 100 yards with the 177 barrel and the 4x Beeman scope that came with the rifle. And its more challenging when the wind scoots them along the ground. Wind to dope and moving target. I haven't really tried to shoot tiny groups with it, as I'm more of a hunter/field shooter. If I could shoot the end of a pop can consistently at 100 yards I'd be very pleased. I have a Hawke 2-7x 32mm AO mil-dot scope on the air rifle now and a Hawke 3-9x 40mm AO mil-dot scope on the way (am very impressed with these - great bargains in optics. Didn't know about Hawke till I came to the air gun forums).
I imagine you'll have a heckuva air rifle when youre done working on it. :D
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Paul68 - thanks for your comments. That's reassuring. I sure have been impressed with my Silver Kodiak.
BobbyHumphrey - great story about your Dad shooting diamonds on playing cards at 50. Sounds like that man can shoot !
Best regards guys - - - -
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Thanks Sam. He sure could. And the white gun on my pic started out as a beeman rs2 from wall mart. The one on top is a Quest. The black one is a benji ss.
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Hey Jeff, did you give up on this project?? After 3 weeks and 3 phone calls I finally got my parts. Now I'm waiting on the next chapter of your venture. Maybe I'll just blunder on on my own. ;) ;D ;D
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Haven't given up. I'm out in Stockton, California for a few weeks on a demolition job.
8)
All the parts are deburred and polished where needed, the lubes should be at the house by now also.
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Just got home from the California job and my Super-Lube and Blue lock-tite is here.
8)
I plan to put the piston assembly back together and check spaceing on the spring then shim for as tight a compression as I can safely get.
I'll also check the piston seals real close as both have some forming flash that needs trimmed.
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Just bought one of these, & was wanting to ask some questions.
How to take the brake off, will it need heat?
Also, when you hone the cylinder what do you use? I have a cylinder hone with fine stones, but didn't want to do it wrong.
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Just bought one of these, & was wanting to ask some questions.
How to take the brake off, will it need heat?
Also, when you hone the cylinder what do you use? I have a cylinder hone with fine stones, but didn't want to do it wrong.
Don't know about the brake question.
For this Gun? The cylinder was in real good shape so I made a thing to use 400 grit wet/dry to rough it up.
I used some old pipe insulation stuff on a wooden dowel then wrapped the 400 around it.
A 5 gallon bucket and a squirt bottle to add water and went to work.
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Ok, great! That's easy enough, I've got a whip stip made at work already! 8)
How's your rebuild going, great thread and answered a lot of questions from the start!
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Ok, great! That's easy enough, I've got a whip stip made at work already! 8)
How's your rebuild going, great thread and answered a lot of questions from the start!
The rebuild is going great with no surprises or regrets.
The only problem now is business is going nuts so I have little time at home!
Did nearly a month in California on a job, home for about a day and a half and now in Cincinnati for a few more days!
:o
But when the money calls? One has to go.
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Back home and ready to get back into this rebuild.
I'm finishing up some smoothing here and there and putting it back together.
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Back home and ready to get back into this rebuild.
I'm finishing up some smoothing here and there and putting it back together.
I'm anxious to see how it turned out!
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I'm stoked to see what this does compared to the Talon!
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Inspected the 2 new seals and one had a rough spot so picked the other one. I don't think it would have made a difference to be honest. It wasn't on the lip much.
I say much because I did touch the seal with 400 very carefully to remove a casting or mold line from the very edge of the seal.
Normal break-in and it would have worn off I'm sure but attention to detail and all that.
:D
Super-lubed the whole tube, lubed other stuff as needed and put it all back in the chamber.
The new Spring was polished at both ends of course.
The screw that holds the piston seal would not come loose with the old seal. I used Vise-grips with a small piece of leather to break it loose.
I put some Blue lock-tite on it with the new seal. Not sure it's needed as it is a tight fitting screw but better safe then sorry!
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Just bought one of these, & was wanting to ask some questions.
How to take the brake off, will it need heat?
Also, when you hone the cylinder what do you use? I have a cylinder hone with fine stones, but didn't want to do it wrong.
The brake will need some heat and you will have to drive it off with a piece of hardwood placed on the rear lip of the brake and struck with a hammer. The barrel has longitudinal raised ridges under that brake, so you will either have to work them down (if you intend to put some other kind of brake there) or cut off the barrel if you want to keep the muzzle naked. Or whatever. You will lose about 1/8" or so of the rear of the brake as the beating you will have to give it will be sufficient to gall the soft aluminum from which that brake is made. But that is no big deal, really, just file the damaged edge off - it will no longer be black but that's why they sell epoxy spray paint.
You've been asking for a while, just thought I'd give you the benefit of my own experience working with this gun, which by the way was depressing.
Keep the faith.
Ben
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just thought I'd give you the benefit of my own experience working with this gun, which by the way was depressing.
That sounds like it would be a good story to share.
;D
Found the steel washer that rests against the trigger housing is bent and worn pretty good.
I raided my Stainless Steel cache for a new washer. I found 2 that I'll use.
That will shim the spring a tad but it should also allow the twist that the old one gave up on once it bent.
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Privateer, I'm new here and don't want to step on your thread, but I have some pictures
of shim locations and my over-travel screw if you'd like to see them.
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By all means Mate! I'd love to see them and I'm sure others would as well.
:D
All the parts are ready to be put back together I just have not been home enuff to finish this AG yet!
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Finished my tune about a month ago, and it's a night and day difference.
The over-travel screw is limited on precision because it literally wasn't even
a factor in the design, I did what I could.
The set screw is a 4-40 x 3/4 and uses the trigger spring arm as a stop.
The shims for the trigger are brass washers (#8) .025 thick, bought at home depot. I had to open
the holes a tiny bit with a small rat-tail file. Then was test fitting to make sure I had full sear
engagement, location of the shims was important.
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Hey Daremoe , I was looking at your pics and I was wondering on the first pic what is up exactly with that screw? Did you make the hole? Is it there just as a stop for over travel? Sorry but I dont have a trigger for mine yet to look at so I was wondering.
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Have been rediscovering my X2 during the past week... I really like this gun. I did some trigger work and it's very smooth and predictable. I've had it in the .22 format since it was new. I've taken 1 nutter with it at 50 yds. (another post). When I first got this gun I had to "bump" the barrel open. A couple weeks ago it the pivot bolt tightened up and I could hardly close the barrel. I loosened the bolt and locktited it. Now I can just pull the barrel down without "bumping" it. Don't get me wrong, this guy is not for the weak. I am 6 ft tall and weigh 230lbs. If I shoot 100 rounds, I feel it.It also took very well to the deburr and lube tune. It's got a ton of "smackdown" yet, it's not the most hold sensitive gun I have. It seems to get smoother everytime I get it out and shoot it. I've nicknamed it "Howitzer"
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Bobby Humphrey,
Yes, I drilled the hole and threaded it for the 4-40 cap-head screw. It uses the trigger spring arm as a stop - it's not super-fine adjustable like a target trigger.
Before the only stop was your finger wedging against the top of the trigger guard.
I de-burred the whole trigger group, polished the sear and used the sear adjustment screw to end up with 4 pound pull and a 1/2 inch total travel.
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Regarding the muzzle brake, I removed mine today and wanted to add a note to what has already been said. First, the three set screws actually screw into the barrel, so it's probably best to take them all the way out instead of just loosening them. Second, the muzzle brake seemed to be press fit over the splines and it took a fair bit of banging to get it off. I drove mine straight off per the instructions posted easier, but a piece of hardwood was not tough enough to get the job done. I wound up using a piece of flat aluminum stock and had difficulty even with that.
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Regarding the muzzle brake, I removed mine today and wanted to add a note to what has already been said. First, the three set screws actually screw into the barrel, so it's probably best to take them all the way out instead of just loosening them. Second, the muzzle brake seemed to be press fit over the splines and it took a fair bit of banging to get it off. I drove mine straight off per the instructions posted easier, but a piece of hardwood was not tough enough to get the job done. I wound up using a piece of flat aluminum stock and had difficulty even with that.
I may have missed this but, whay are we taking the muzzle breaks off?
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Thank you for the clarification Daremoe. So it stops the trigger travel just after sear is released. Cool.
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Sorry to just get back on this thread, to many irons in the fire.
I wanted to take mine off to recrown the barrel.
Instead of beating on the brake itself I went a different rout.
Took all three set screws out, wrapped the brake in an old heavy leather glove, and clamped it in a bench vise. The barrel was off at the time. Found a brass rod just small enough to fit in the muzzle hole (5/16) and gently drove the barrel out of the brake.
It didn't hurt the muzzle of the barrel, but wasn't that worried if it did because of the recrown. If you want a good solid dowel would work as well.
To reinstall I just set the barrel up in like manner, and tapped the brake back on with the holes inline.
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So did you finish it?
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Yes. I sent it to a friend then bought a few more that I messed with and sold or traded.
This is a great and cheap platform to learn on once you get setup for it.
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Yes. I sent it to a friend then bought a few more that I messed with and sold or traded.
This is a great and cheap platform to learn on once you get setup for it.
"I sent it to a friend" You really got to work on that ending. You can't just end it like that. I just came across this post and read through the whole thing knowing there must be a great ending whether tragic or happy. ;D
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"I sent it to a friend" You really got to work on that ending. You can't just end it like that. I just came across this post and read through the whole thing knowing there must be a great ending whether tragic or happy. ;D
"dang" it! You want the whole story that I was trying to avoid.
So here it is....
I was sent to California on a Demo job and hired my friend from Oregon to come down and work with us.
He and I shared a motel room and he got interested seeing me trade/buy/sell and talk about AGs.
So I made a deal for a DVD recorder with him.
I got sent home to Ohio, finished the quick rebuild and sent it to him.
Several weeks later I find out he's in a hospital with 30% of his Liver working.
He is home and loves the Gun and is doing good last I heard.
And No I never got that DVD recorder.
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Wow!! That was an unexpected turn of events. Hope your friend continues getting better and gets to enjoy that airgun.
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Wow, just found this thread... I guess I didn't really think about it being a Chinese gun. Anyway I suppose the one I made with questions about it will show up here in a few hours when a mod finds it... Whoops.
I like your style of jumping into things with little or no information. Sounds about like me right now... I like that you think this is a good gun to get started tuning with because I think that's probably what I'm going to end up doing.
In that spirit though I have to ask one very naive question I'm sure I'll find eventually with more reading but... What in the world is that adapter you put into the compressor area for? Also I gotta say, seeing that much ground off a hardened socket bit, you're a boss.
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I bought one new at Walmart on Black Friday for $98 and I'm glad I did. I tore it down and did all the sanding, polishing and lubing that I do to all my guns. I've always had the .22 barrel on it and it's a hammer. I made the same adaptor from a socket for my compressor that you spoke of. The trigger is heavy and can use some help and it takes 2 men and a boy to cock it but, it shoots about anything I put in it. It absolutely loves the GAMO TS22 22gr pellets. If I put 50 shots through this thing I feel like I wrestled an alligator. It's as heavy as a semi-truck with the CP Adventure scope on it and it kicks like a mule. The black and polished steel is an impressive look and the muzzle break looks cool. 1 set screw swaps the barrel in less than a minute. I really like the gun but forget lugging this guy around in the woods or shooting it off hand. Looking forward to seeing how you end up with your's.
I am glad I found this post. I just purchased a used Silver Kodiak that had on 50 rounds fired from it...so basically, new. I have been reading things about tuning and working the trigger. I didn't get any data about the gun so i really don't know exactly how to break it down so you can imagine I wouldn't know where to start in tuning. Is there a detailed breakdown on just how to tune the gun and the trigger? I really want to do it but I am a little skittish about starting.
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Wow, just found this thread... I guess I didn't really think about it being a Chinese gun. Anyway I suppose the one I made with questions about it will show up here in a few hours when a mod finds it... Whoops.
I like your style of jumping into things with little or no information. Sounds about like me right now... I like that you think this is a good gun to get started tuning with because I think that's probably what I'm going to end up doing.
In that spirit though I have to ask one very naive question I'm sure I'll find eventually with more reading but... What in the world is that adapter you put into the compressor area for? Also I gotta say, seeing that much ground off a hardened socket bit, you're a boss.
I did research alot before I started tearing it apart. Paul68 has a document linked in this thread that gives a good guide on the adapter and will answer your questions. If you can't open his file? I did convert it to PDF and can provide it.
As to being a boss for messing up a good socket?
I make a living in demolitions so I'm pretty good at messing things up!
;D
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Wow, just found this thread... I guess I didn't really think about it being a Chinese gun. Anyway I suppose the one I made with questions about it will show up here in a few hours when a mod finds it... Whoops.
I like your style of jumping into things with little or no information. Sounds about like me right now... I like that you think this is a good gun to get started tuning with because I think that's probably what I'm going to end up doing.
In that spirit though I have to ask one very naive question I'm sure I'll find eventually with more reading but... What in the world is that adapter you put into the compressor area for? Also I gotta say, seeing that much ground off a hardened socket bit, you're a boss.
I did research alot before I started tearing it apart. Paul68 has a document linked in this thread that gives a good guide on the adapter and will answer your questions. If you can't open his file? I did convert it to PDF and can provide it.
As to being a boss for messing up a good socket?
I make a living in demolitions so I'm pretty good at messing things up!
;D
Aha! Okay I see what it's for now. Interesting set of tools and operations needed for working on it.
Are there still tuners you can send it off to around?
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Mike Melick at FlyingDragonarrifles.org is the guy when it comes to Chinese springers. Not sure if he'll do a beeman, but its likely.
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For any one else late to the party like me, these Silver Kodiak X2's are still on the shelves at Wally World for $99.
I just picked up one last night 4/8/16 and found this thread while researching for info on it.
Hope I never need this info, but good to post for future reference even with the crappy ending. ;D
Thanks to all who contributed!
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Hi to any one that might look at this
So my first air rifle was the silver kodiak and even though I had no experience with air rifles it was a great rifle for me. at first I didn't like the .22 pellet travel so I stuck with the .177 flatter trajectory and well at 20 to 25 yards I was shooting at 1/4 inch bolt nuts.
I think that it's a great rifle for beginners to learn on.
By the way I sold the rifle because I wanted more power I bought the Hatsan 125 sniper vortek in .22
And after a month that I sold it to a friend he lent it to a frien who dry fired it while the barrel was open and the trigger assemble shattered some of the springs broke
I tried to help him fix it but I still don't know how the trigger it's supposed to go back together and also after reading this thread I realize that the springs are broken.
So I need either a new trigger asembly or just the springs
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I know this is an old post but does anyone know where I can get a spring for this rifle?
Thanks!
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On page 4 of this thread they mention Beeman as one source, and also a mention of Apex. There may be some updated places to purchase from now, I would like that information also, for future reference.
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I would like that information also, for future reference.
Ditto