GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: momosgarage on September 06, 2011, 02:22:05 PM
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I have been looking to buy an air rifle for yard target practice. I haven't shot anything in years and are looking to try my hand at airgun hunting in the long term to supplement bow hunting. As it stands, I don't want to drive 30 minutes "to and from" the local outdoor range everyday just to shoot for 45 minutes, but I also don't live in a neighborhood where people will understand or be familiar with airguns. PCPs and air handguns are out of the question, I played paintball many moons ago and are not going to pay for that kind of equipment upkeep, so that leaves springers, gas pistons and pumps. Remember "quiet" is my number one priority. I have narrowed my choices down to the following:
Gas Piston: Crosman Titan Nitro Piston - Lower Velocity
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-titan-gp-nitro-piston-lower-velocity?m=2291 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-titan-gp-nitro-piston-lower-velocity?m=2291)
Remington NPSS
Springer: Stoeger x20s
Beeman Guardian/s550
Pump: Daisy 953
I understand that the Beeman and the Daisy are in a totally different class than the remington and crossman, but as I said "quiet" is the number one priority. It would be nice if I could hunt with the same rifle and have it be quiet, but I will buy two rifles if needed.
Also, I have considered buying the Stoeger x20s and immediately getting the main spring replaced by a better one along with a tune; OR just replacing the spring all together with a gas piston. If that will make it the quietest of the bunch I will pay whatever it costs. I want to stay under $350 on the rifle and then put what other money I have into the tune. Any other suggestions for the QUIETEST springer, pump or gas piston? Any ideas on the above. BTW everyone says the Benjamin pumps are quiet, I disagree and had them also many moons ago. RWS guns and most Beemans are out of my budget.
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WELCOME!!! I think you are on the right track with the 953.
If you want better accuracy, you may do better with a single shot loaded pump air rifle. But More shots is fun, so I can sure understand that! You are in the right velocity range for low noise. You might also wanna check out the 10meter target guns, like the Daisy "Avanti" series; as they are lower velocity, and built for accuracy. In a springer, you may wanna check out also the Beeman R7.
Again, Welcome!, and Best to Luck To You.
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I like the Beeman R7, but $389 plus tax, plus tune, puts the complete package into a range I am not willing to spend. I know its a high quality rifle and is worth the money, but the total amount needed to get it going is turning me off. Same goes for the Avanti rifles.
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Have you ruled-out co2 guns? If not, the QB-78 / AR2078 rifles are great guns and the price is way inside your budget. With an LDC (noise suppressor) all you will hear is the hammer spring and "phfftt" out of the muzzle.
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I'd say get the R7, they are awesome rifles and perfect for the backyard shooter. You don't have to have an R7 tuned right away, they are high quality rifles and shoot great right from the box. Just take it out of the box, clean the barrel with some Goo-Gone, install your scope and shoot until your hears is content. You can always get it tuned later if you feel you must but then again you may not even feel the need. Get the R7... you won't be sorry.. Just my opinion.
Jeff
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Welcome to the GTA! Check the classifieds too you can get some great deals, and A Disco with a LDC is very good , ( very easy to pump)
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You can buy an Avanti 853 from Pyramid Air for $280.00 (free shipping on orders over $100.00)
Here's the Link to the one I am referring to:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-853?m=145 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-853?m=145)
They also have the Beeman R7 for $360.00 (same free shipping)
Here's the Link to it:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899)
Like Longislandhunter posts, you don't have to do anything to these rifles but maybe clean the barrel and start having some fun :D
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Here is a nice pumper:
http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/model_1.htm (http://www.mountainaircustomairguns.com/model_1.htm)
you can add a longer barrel for more power, take away the custom wooden grips, add a crosman shoulder stock:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-1399-custom-shoulder-stock-fits-many-crosman-pistols?a=198 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-1399-custom-shoulder-stock-fits-many-crosman-pistols?a=198)
they also have a lot of different shrouds and muzzle brakes at the Mountain Air website to make it quieter.
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I've read the x20 is a good rifle.
Might consider a Benjamin trail NP with an aftermarket trigger blade.
Either that or the crosman titan, or NPSS.
A tuned MM b26 is also good, or a used R7/R9.
From what i understand pumpers can be loud, and i know that some springers are too.
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Well, you sort of can't have it both ways. Th 953, which is pretty quiet for a single stroke pneumatic (SSP) is a great gun, especially after a Pilkington trigger mod, BUT it won't do if you intend to hunt anything bigger than birds at close range. Just not a power house as it was based on the 853/753 guns shooting in the 500's where target rifles are supposed to. The Stoeger and Remington will make some noise. Most of my magnum springers sound like staple guns. CO2's, unless they come moderated, can be even louder. ("Lead Dust Collectors" are in the "you pays your money, you takes your chances" category, being Federally regulated suppressors.) If you don't mind a longish target session and the extra effort, something like a Benjamin Sheridan Blue Streak (especially an older, "real" Blue Streak) can work very well. Two or three pumps is very quiet. Eight pumps and you are making a fair bit of noise, but that's OK for hunting in woods. Just isn't a fast shooter (as in you have to pump it back up each time). For short range targets, the two-three pumps isn't too bad. And, seriously, how many follow up shots do most hunters really get? The Sheridans can be scoped in the Scout fashion and I have an older Streak with the old two-piece scope base that works fine scoped in normal fashion. The later Streaks can also wear a Williams peep sight that doesn't cost much and greatly improves the gun. Charlie used to make a new sear for these but no longer offers them. I think someone named Big Ed is making them now. Or you can tweak the trigger, itself. If you find you really like the gun, ship it off to Tim at Mac-1 for a "Steroid Tune" and you'll have just about the world's best multi-pump gun. Something to consider other than CO2 and springers.
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How about a crossman 1077. No pumping and its reasonably quiet.
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Cometa 220 Compact... I have them in stock for $240. It has the same specs as the R7, but it has a 'moderator'... Perfect for shorter range shooting, and a really nice gun.
Richard
PS - I have a Daisy 953 as well... totally different. Not as much of a 'real rifle' feel, but a gun I like and shoot with the kids. It is not a bad choice.
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How about a crossman 1077.
I have ruled out most Co2 guns like the crossman 1077. I had these when I was younger and the stock was wood back then. I think the model today is junk and would need servicing, although its likley a decent shooter. I paid thousands to keep Co2 gear going when I was on the paintball circuit, I wouldn't do that anymore even for a good quality air rifle. Upkeep and tuning is one thing, possible constant busted valve lines and seals is a "no go" for me.
Have you ruled-out co2 guns? If not, the QB-78 / AR2078 rifles are great guns and the price is way inside your budget.
I had never heard of the QB-78 / AR2078, they do look nice
A Disco with a LDC is very good
No LDC for me. I won't take a chance, I am in California
A tuned MM b26 is also good, or a used R7/R9.
I looked at the B26, but thought it had a much higher velocity than the R7, hence being louder?
Might consider a Benjamin trail NP with an aftermarket trigger blade.
Either that or the crosman titan, or NPSS.
I have handled and shot the Benjamin Trail in .177, but was told it was louder than the Remington NPSS and the TitanGP low velocity. I did like it. I also looked at the Avanti 853, but figured at that price I might as well get the R7
Well, you sort of can't have it both ways.
I am willing to eventually get two rifles if needed, but hoped I could shoehorn my needs into one.
The Stoeger and Remington will make some noise.
Does anyone have any experience with a modded Stoeger x20S that has a gas piston? I have read on this forum such a combo is very quiet.
Cometa 220 Compact
I have never seen a review for this rifle. Where can I buy it retail, with a return policy?
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If you don't want to spend the money on an R7, take a look at the HW30s, it's the same gun as the R7, and less expensive
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I've got a cometa fusion. A handsome powerful rifle, although not quiet. I'm sure the 220 is quieter.
The thing about spring piston rifles is the noise level isn't completely dependent on the velocity of the pellet. The shot cycle and piston firing actually causes a lot of noise. That's why tuned rifles were suggested. Generally the magic tuners work also quiet down air rifles.
If you can find a used/tuned r7/r9 on the BST/yellow and can afford it, that may perhaps be the best option.
Next to that, i'd say a trail/titan, which has a piston and is quieter (or so i've read).
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The 953 is a great rifle. I've got one, and reviewed in the Airgun Reviews gate. (ditto for the X20) The 953 is pretty quiet, as it is low velocity, and there's no noise of pistons slamming around. But it still sounds like an airgun to someone the next yard over if you shoot more than a shot every 10 minutes or so. This is the quietest rifle you suggested.
The X20 is a great gun with enough power to hunt, but notably louder than the 953, which is itself loud enough to sound like an airgun. The X20S is not much quieter, according to one of the online reviews. (either Rick Eutzler at airgunweb.com or the dude who does the reviews on pyramyd's website; his name escapes me at the moment)
To me, the only 100% option you have is shrouded PCP, like a Benjamin Marauder. But it is expensive, even though it is the least expensive shrouded PCP gun. Plan on $600 minimum. They're super-quiet, and also quite powerful and accurate.
A good affordable bet would be a Crosman 2100 Classic or Daisy 880. They will be as loud as the 953 if you pump them the minimum of 3 times, but when you go out hunting small game, you have the option of pumping them 10 times. They're easier to mount scopes on than the nicer and more powerful Benjamin pumpers. They'll only be powerful enough for up to rabbit-sized game. Is that OK? If these end up being too loud for back-yard shooting, you're not out much money, and you'd still have the option of shooting them indoors.
Can you practice at 10 yards indoors? I live in a small condo, but even I can get 10 yards with a little effort. 10 yards at small targets is good practice for 30 yards at larger targets. It's just that the pellet trajectory and trigger pull changes a bit with more pumps.
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If you don't want to spend the money on an R7, take a look at the HW30s
I am only seeing a $60 USD difference, I guess I could use that towards the tune?
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The X20S is not much quieter, according to one of the online reviews.
Even with a gas-piston conversion? I figured it wouldn't be much quieter out of the box and planned to budget in the gas-piston conversion.
Can you practice at 10 yards indoors? I live in a small condo, but even I can get 10 yards with a little effort. 10 yards at small targets is good practice for 30 yards at larger targets. It's just that the pellet trajectory and trigger pull changes a bit with more pumps.
Around 12 yards totally inside the house and a little less than 20 yards outdoors, shooting while hidden inside the garage/port (not visable from any angle, but it only has two walled sides, so sound would reflect and travel somewhere).
A good affordable bet would be a Crosman 2100 Classic or Daisy 880. They will be as loud as the 953 if you pump them the minimum of 3 times, but when you go out hunting small game, you have the option of pumping them 10 times. They're easier to mount scopes on than the nicer and more powerful Benjamin pumpers. They'll only be powerful enough for up to rabbit-sized game. Is that OK? If these end up being too loud for back-yard shooting, you're not out much money, and you'd still have the option of shooting them indoors.
Smaug, I have taken a look at the big box type 880's and 2100's in the store. I didn't like them at all. However, I felt much better about the quality of the Remington Airmaster 77 and the Daisy 22 SG. Will your "three pump" theory apply to these two rifles? Frankly, I thought the low-velocity Titan GP nitro-piston would be quieter than these two. Am I right or wrong?
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get a benjamin disco w/ the pump then buy a tko shroud. you wont have to pay anything extra just use the pump to refill every 25-30 shots, extremely easy to pump and extremely accuracte. guns got power
if not that idk, havnt used many springers, the trail NP i had was very inaccurate and i sent it back. my gamo bigcat was a shooter but thats dead now. if i had to use a pumper i would build a 13xx one
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Any gun without a shroud is going to make air noise with the air escaping behind the pellet. Whether it's 700 fps from a Crosman 2100 or from a low velocity Titan GP.
The gas piston guns' mechanisms will be slightly quieter than the piston of the spring guns, but this isn't where most of the noise comes from.
The Crosman 2100 and Daisy 880 look cheap and are built cheap, but they're famously accurate.
I don't know much about aftermarket shrouds for Discoveries, but if they are effective, this sounds like a great way to go.
12 yards indoors is great for a Daisy 953. It would allow you to target shoot at 10 yards and 10 m. Or to practice with your hunting gun (no matter how loud) before you go afield with it.
Where are you located, geographically? There might be a local GTA-er who would have you over to have a listen and judge for yourself.
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the Cometa compact 220s... you are presently not going to find them unless they are used. I have the only new ones, I believe, as the importer does not have any -- I bought them all. It will be at least several months before there is anyone carrying them new.
What kind of 'return policy' are you looking for?
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What kind of 'return policy' are you looking for?
For example, if I bought a NPSS I could return a defective one to the manufactuer or get parts pretty easy.
There might be a local GTA-er who would have you over to have a listen and judge for yourself.
Mac1 Airgun Distributors is pretty close to my work.
The Crosman 2100 and Daisy 880 look cheap and are built cheap, but they're famously accurate.
Smaug, I have taken a look at the big box type 880's and 2100's in the store. I didn't like them at all. However, I felt much better about the quality of the Remington Airmaster 77 and the Daisy 22 SG. Will your "three pump" theory apply to these two rifles? Frankly, I thought the low-velocity Titan GP nitro-piston would be quieter than these two. Am I right or wrong?
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If you don't want to spend the money on an R7, take a look at the HW30s
I am only seeing a $60 USD difference, I guess I could use that towards the tune?
spend the extra money on pellets. Both of these are quiet and accurate out of the box. Shoot it for a while, then decide if you need a tune
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First off, welcome to the forum. This is a great place to be. :)
The R7 is a great airgun to start off with, but it is not a hunting airgun. It is not meant to be, hence the low velocity, weaker spring, and lower cocking effort. Of course, you can do it with the R7, but you'd have to be pretty close to do a clean kill (less than 30 yards). I know others will disagree, but I have one, and personally, it is never going to be the one I use for hunting. Even in the 20 cal version, you'd have to be pretty close still, but it is a great airgun for what it is, which is for plinking and punching paper.
As far as quietness goes, as others have stated, every springer or gas ram airgun that you get is going to make noise. My best advice is minimize the audible noise by shooting indoors, or indoors to outdoors and at a silent trap.
I've got a Crosman Titan GP too, and I don't think it's quiet to the point where nobody will notice. My advice is get the airgun you really want, and take that 30 minute trip for the hour of enjoyment. It will be worth it, especially if it's with the one you want. And heck, you might even meet some great people who are doing the same thing.
-GB
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Even in the 20 cal version, you'd have to be pretty close still, but it is a great airgun for what it is, which is for plinking and punching paper.
Long term I'll get another, I guess we can focus on quietly shooting targets at home and small varmints in the field for now.
My best advice is minimize the audible noise by shooting indoors, or indoors to outdoors and at a silent trap.
I actually already have a slient trap, it was the first thing I researched and understood was a priority.
I've got a Crosman Titan GP too, and I don't think it's quiet to the point where nobody will notice.
Do you have the "low-velocity" model? If what I read is correct, the "low-velocity" TitanGP should have the same velocity as the R7.
The Crosman 2100 and Daisy 880 look cheap and are built cheap, but they're famously accurate.
Will your "three pump" theory apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 and the Daisy 22SG? The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
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DOA you can return it, but it won't be. Cometa distribution should be improving shortly. It is a 300 year-old company... unlikely to go out of business now.
Richard
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I'd go with the Titan GP .22, standard velocity. I have one that I shoot in the backyard. The pellet hitting the target makes more noise than the gun does. If you have a silent trap then as long as it's legal to shoot in your yard I don't think the neighbors would be bothered by the noise. A kid bouncing a basketball in the driveway next door makes much more noise than me shooting in the backyard. If the higher velocity gun is too loud you could always put the lower powered gas ram in it later. You can pick a Titan GP .22 up for around $100 refurbished or off the classifieds. It's a great gun for plinking or hunting backyard critters. Good luck with your decision and welcome to the forum. ;D
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You and I are in pretty much the same situation.
I tried a Gamo Whisper. Big mistake. Loud and I could not hit the broad side of a barn.
Got an R7 a month ago. 1,500 pellets later, I could not be more satisfied. All of my shooting has been in the backyard. Noise is my #1 concern. I don't want anyone to know that I'm shooting an AG. I use a silent pellet trap and have no concern with the R7.
The R7 is very quiet. It is stunningly accurate and fun to shoot. Out to 30 yards, I would not hesitate to hunt small game. If it needs a tune, I don't understand why. It shoots great out of the box.
Good luck.
R
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The R7 is very quiet. It is stunningly accurate and fun to shoot. Out to 30 yards, I would not hesitate to hunt small game. If it needs a tune, I don't understand why. It shoots great out of the box.
I looked into buying a R7 and sending it to this guy off season, with a "quiet tune" priority:
www.springgunning.com (http://www.springgunning.com)
or these guys
www.mac1airgun.com (http://www.mac1airgun.com)
Are these guys and good? What kind of price range am I looking at for "quiet tune"?
I was a little hesitant on the R7 due to total price, but I am being convinced by this thread. I am sure the Beeman will last a lifetime, so I wouldn't feel bad about the cost in the long run.
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The R7 is very quiet. It is stunningly accurate and fun to shoot. Out to 30 yards, I would not hesitate to hunt small game. If it needs a tune, I don't understand why. It shoots great out of the box.
I looked into buying a R7 and sending it to this guy off season, with a "quiet tune" priority:
www.springgunning.com (http://www.springgunning.com)
or these guys
www.mac1airgun.com (http://www.mac1airgun.com)
Are these guys and good? What kind of price range am I looking at for "quiet tune"?
I was a little hesitant on the R7 due to total price, but I am being convinced by this thread. I am sure the Beeman will last a lifetime, so I wouldn't feel bad about the cost in the long run.
Are you going to try to do the tune yourself or send it out? I'm not familiar with the tuners you listed, but I have the Vortek system in both of my R9's. This is a DIY tune, if you have the knowledge to take down a springer. I sent my R9's to Tom at Vortek. Both R9's are quieter than stock and more accurate also. The Vortek kit for the R7 is due out at any time. The Vortek kits are the least expensive of your options, but they will do wonders for your gun
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Are you going to try to do the tune yourself or send it out?
I am sending it out to the springgunning guy or dropping it off at mac1, which is local for me. I am not going to attempt to do this myself.
Will an R7 be quieter than a low-velocity TitanGP? Anybody try it in the field?
The Crosman 2100 and Daisy 880 look cheap and are built cheap, but they're famously accurate.
Smaug, will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG? The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
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I'm likely to have my R7 tuned at some point. Like you say, the gun is a long term investment that I expect to own in 30-40 years, so the amoritized cost is no big deal.
But there is no rush. I'm sure it will perform well in stock condition for thousands of shots. When the new vortek kit for thr R7 comes out, I may go that route. I
also have zero interest in doing this myself. When you want the job done right, hire a professional.
I gotta admit too that I like the way the R7 looks and handles.
R
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Are you going to try to do the tune yourself or send it out?
I am sending it out to the springgunning guy or dropping it off at mac1, which is local for me. I am not going to attempt to do this myself.
Will an R7 be quieter than a low-velocity TitanGP? Anybody try it in the field?
The Crosman 2100 and Daisy 880 look cheap and are built cheap, but they're famously accurate.
Smaug, will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG? The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
The R7 and Titan are two different guns at two different price/quality brackets. You might well be just as happy with either. Personally, i think if you're willing to spend for an R7 might as well skip over the titan for now and get it as a project gun later.
And I wouldn't worry about tuning it for the time being. I'd get my money's worth out of the rifle first, then skip right over the drop in kits (vortek/JM) and send it to a pro tuner.
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The Beeman R7 has the Rekord Trigger. It is renowned as a standard for other triggers to be compared by. I personally wouldn't go with a copy, as that trigger is not copied. I'd get the real deal. I'd also shoot it for a while first and get it broken in while you are getting used to it. You'll be pleased with the quality outa box, but if you should have any issues, and you have opened it up...your warranty is void. Buy a Titan if you want a airgun to tinker with.
Also, if you decide to sell your R7 down the road, with a Rekord trigger you'll get a much higher price, than any copy.
Again, Welcome and Good Luck!
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Buy a Titan if you want a airgun to tinker with.
I don't want to tinker with the rifles at all. I want them as QUIET as possible, even if it means servicing them before they are broken in. "Quiet" is a non-negotiable part of my request for info. It all due to the type of neighborhood I live. Thats why I am asking about rifles that are not in the same class. Whats the order of quietness in the following rifles, from loudest to least loud?
Daisy 953
Beeman R7
Beeman R9
Beeman Guardian/s550
Crosman Titan Low-velocity
Remington NPSS
Benjamin Trail
Stoeger x20s
Remington Airmaster 77 (how many pumps?)
Daisy 22SG (how many pumps?)
Also which of the above will be most quiet if tuned? I would love to keep whatever rifle I buy stock and break it in, but if I can pay to get it really quiet, I will do so. I may have mentioned hunting in my first post, but since I can't have everything all in one lets just focus on quietest "backyard target rifle" in a springer, pump or gas piston
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I can't answer your second question.
The 953 will most likely be the quietest for backyard shooting, being a single shot pneumatic.
The R7 is known for being a very back yard friendly dead-accurate rifle, and with HW quality and the rekord trigger it would be a good option.
The titan/trail might require some tinkering as reports on the trigger say it's pretty unsatisfactory. the GRT replacement triggers have a good reputation for improvement and ease of installment. $32 IIRC. There's no guarantee that it'll be quieter than an R7
No clue about the NPSS but i'm sure it's relatively quiet.
Pump rifles can be loud, i know from experience.
Frankly, if you are just going to stick to 10-20 yards and you don't plan on shooting anything the 953 might be a good option. I've read it likes gamo match pellets which are ridiculously cheap too. I even read a post about someone who bought a 853 lothar walther action/barrel from daisy for a small sum and put it into the 953 stock.
If you want to use it on small pests and birds perhaps the r7 would be the better choice, and you can send it off for modifications later on once the springs or seals wear out anyway.
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I looked into buying a R7 and sending it to this guy off season, with a "quiet tune" priority:
www.springgunning.com (http://www.springgunning.com)
or these guys
www.mac1airgun.com (http://www.mac1airgun.com)
Are these guys and good? What kind of price range am I looking at for "quiet tune"?
I was a little hesitant on the R7 due to total price, but I am being convinced by this thread. I am sure the Beeman will last a lifetime, so I wouldn't feel bad about the cost in the long run.
The guy at Springgunning.com is Paul Watts. My .20 cal Beeman R9 is Paul Watts tuned, John in PA Vorteked, and has a full shroud. It is very smooth, the smoothest springer I have right now. You can actually get a HW30S with the Paul Watt's advance tune for cheaper than buying an R7 and then shipping it to him. The HW30S is the Beeman R7 but with sights, and no checkering. I'm not sure where your preference on those are, but you can always ask Paul for a brake or full shroud.
As for Mac1, no experience there, but I hear they do wonders there. Since they're local too, I don't see a problem in supporting a local airgun smith/protuner.
I wouldn't hesitate sending it to either one of them. I would also recommend John in PA as well. He has great turn around time and does an awesome job, especially on the trigger, not to mention very affordable.
Don't forget the pictures once you get it. I'm sure we're all interested in what you end up with.
-GB
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For only shooting 20 yd,s the 853 would be hard to beat. Or the 853c five shot clip. very quite great accuraccy an the trigger will break in nice. I just got a used one amased at the accuaccy. will shot about ant pellet well. dasiy wadcutter an the cheap beeman pointed are shooting the best so far. outshooting the rws pellets. An the tech force dome is my best at 30yd,s an out. with open sights 1/2 inchs groups are easy at 20 yd,s some down to 3/8. I bet I can get some 1/2 groups out to 40 or more yard,s with a scope. Great rifle. If pellet price is a concern the 853 would be my top choice. then then r-7 or hw 30. For used check out www.omp (http://www.omp) they have used 853 for 115.00 shipped to you with new seals. Plus the triggers are broke in.
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Yeah, for quiet and accurate, and don't need tuning, I'll refer back to my first posts. Daisy Avanti 853 or Beeman R7. Of your last choices listed, I'd still be with these two. The Daisy 953 would be a distant 3rd, as it doesn't have the Lothar Walther barrel or the sights that the Avanti 853 has. The R9 is gonna be much louder than the R7, and was well over your set $350.00 amount.
You can buy a Daisy Avanti 853 from Pyramid Air starting at $280.00 (free shipping on orders over $100.00)
Here's the Link to the one I am referring to:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-853?m=145 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/daisy-match-grade-avanti-853?m=145)
They also have the Beeman R7 for $360.00 (same free shipping)
Here's the Link to it:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/beeman-r7-air-rifle?m=1899)
Like Longislandhunter posts, you don't have to do anything to these rifles but maybe clean the barrel and start having some fun :D
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I didn't see the Welhrauch HW30s air rifle in your list. I would add it to compare to the R7. Same quality, same Rekord trigger, same quietness. It doesn't have the lifetime warranty (1 year) Here's the link to it as well:
You can buy the HW30s, with sights for $315.00 (free shipping)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/weihrauch-hw30s-air-rifle?m=2018 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/weihrauch-hw30s-air-rifle?m=2018)
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momosgarage: I added a shooting video of the 953 to the review in the Reviews gate. That should give you an idea of how loud it is.
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Northern Lights:
I didn't have any luck with the www.omp (http://www.omp) website. I'm probably doing something wrong.
Can you post the webpage link for the 853 that you are posting about please? I wanna see them.
Thanks
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A good affordable bet would be a Crosman 2100 Classic or Daisy 880. They will be as loud as the 953 if you pump them the minimum of 3 times, but when you go out hunting small game, you have the option of pumping them 10 times. They're easier to mount scopes on than the nicer and more powerful Benjamin pumpers. They'll only be powerful enough for up to rabbit-sized game. Is that OK?
Smaug, I read your review for the 953 a while back. Its one of the reasons why I am asking about it now. However you have not clarified your above statement. Will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG? The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
I didn't see the Welhrauch HW30s air rifle in your list.
Thanks for this recomendation, as was stated by someone else earlier also. I was not aware of this rifle, it looks good despite only being $60 cheaper than the R7.
You can actually get a HW30S with the Paul Watt's advance tune for cheaper than buying an R7 and then shipping it to him.
How do I order this from Paul? I don't see it listed on his website. How much is it? Is it something you order and then wait for him to do the work?
For used check out www.omp (http://www.omp) they have used 853 for 115.00 shipped to you with new seals. Plus the triggers are broke in.
I haven't seen refurbished 853 for sale anywhere on the web. If your price was available, I likely would have ordered it already without posting to the forum Normally I see 853's for over $300 USD
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You can actually get a HW30S with the Paul Watt's advance tune for cheaper than buying an R7 and then shipping it to him.
How do I order this from Paul? I don't see it listed on his website. How much is it? Is it something you order and then wait for him to do the work?
He use to have a link to his pricing. It was at paulwatts.com but it looks like he took it down. Just give him a call, he's a great guy to talk with, don't email as it may take a while for him to get back to you. Ask him about his ADV tuned HW30S.
Here's his info from his site http://www.springgunning.com/: (http://www.springgunning.com/:)
Phone: (901) 465-9772 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM Central Standard Time (Best way to contact me)
-GB
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I believe the HW30 and the R7 are the same rifle, the R7 being a rifle sourced from Weihrauch for beeman. Just different stocks (i prefer the looks of the r7 in pictures) I may be wrong.
HW30s are on sale on JM's site as well.
Frankly if you're considering nice high end german springers, i wouldn't even be looking at the multi-pump bb/pellet rifles. I have a daisy 901 and have played with an 880 and would consider them toys next to a good break barrel, not to mention they're plain annoying for punching paper. pumping something up 8-10 times every shot gets annoying very quickly.
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My NPSS was not what I would call quiet - louder than my 2100 and less accurate. I wouldn't call the gas piston guns "quiet".... or at least mine wasn't.
My Disco with a TKO is a little quieter than my 2100 and much more powerful. If you really don't want muzzle brake than it would work for you, but it is a great gun and very accurate.
I agree, a 10 pump grows old for punching paper.. very old.
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I believe the HW30 and the R7 are the same rifle, the R7 being a rifle sourced from Weihrauch for beeman. Just different stocks (i prefer the looks of the r7 in pictures) I may be wrong.
HW30s are on sale on JM's site as well.
Frankly if you're considering nice high end german springers, i wouldn't even be looking at the multi-pump bb/pellet rifles. I have a daisy 901 and have played with an 880 and would consider them toys next to a good break barrel, not to mention they're plain annoying for punching paper. pumping something up 8-10 times every shot gets annoying very quickly.
There are two models of the HW30, the HW30 and HW30S, only the "S" model has the rekord trigger, But you're right, internally they are the same gun. The sights version of the R7 use to be sold by Beeman but it looks like the non-sights with muzzle brake is the one that's readily available nowadays. Like you, I prefer the looks of the R7 instead, but I would take PW's full shroud over the brake and sights any day.. hehe. :)
-GB
-GB
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My NPSS was not what I would call quiet - louder than my 2100 and less accurate. I wouldn't call the gas piston guns "quiet".... or at least mine wasn't.
If accurate for the NPSS, this tells me a lot. I have seen on airgun reporter and read on other forums that the NPSS is the quietest among the Benjamin Trail guns, Crosman Venom and Gamo gas-piston guns. Plus I have a friend at work that bought a Benjamin Trail and says its not quiet at all. This leads to what I have also read about the Stoeger x20s being quieter than all the above and is a springers; which was why I was curious about the anecdotal statments regarding people doing gas-piston conversions and making the x20s even quieter.
No one has really compared the "low-velocity" Titan, so it may also be less noisy than the above. However the ADV tuned HW30S is looking better and better as we discuss this. Thanks for everyones help.
I still want to hear back about the "3 pump" theory though.
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Quote:
Smaug, I read your review for the 953 a while back. Its one of the reasons why I am asking about it now. However you have not clarified your above statement. Will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG? The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
3 pumps only. I'm curious for an answer from Smaug on this theory too...I hope he responds.
I didn't see the Welhrauch HW30s air rifle in your list.
Thanks for this recomendation, as was stated by someone else earlier also. I was not aware of this rifle, it looks good despite only being $60 cheaper than the R7.[/color]
$60.00 will go a long way for a bunch of pellets when using Pyramid Air "buy 3, get 1 free" offer. One nice thing about a rifle in this velocity is you don't need super high priced pellets! 7-8g Domes or Targets will do. ;)
How do I order this from Paul? I don't see it listed on his website. How much is it? Is it something you order and then wait for him to do the work?
Yes on waiting for it, and you'll most likely have to Email him for getting a specific price and shipping arrangements. You can budget a low-ball base price of $120.00 to cover, and S/H. Naturally, if you want to start changing out parts, it'll go higher.
For used check out www.omp (http://www.omp) they have used 853 for 115.00 shipped to you with new seals. Plus the triggers are broke in.
I haven't seen refurbished 853 for sale anywhere on the web. If your price was available, I likely would have ordered it already without posting to the forum Normally I see 853's for over $300 USD
[/quote]
I'm interested in this too, and hope he can post the Link. The closest I ever got to one in that price was from our local JROTC group,,,but they were $175.00. A new 853 from P.A. is $280.00 with free shipping.
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Sorry posted wrong site. Here the sight for the used 853. www.odcmp.com (http://www.odcmp.com) what it is the civilian markmanship program. They train people to shoot an then they sell the guns with new seals put in. somtimes they are out of them.
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Thanks for the update on the website.
According to the CMP those are not for sale to the general public. They state only to CMP members, and to individuals or organizations for teaching purposes. :( An order for 1 might raise an eyebrow or two. I looked up the Daisy M853 USED and it stated this in the product description:
"Sales are limited to individuals and programs whose primary intention is to develop new shooters with these rifles". I looked at the pdf order form, and it asks for your organization and contact information.
However, it may be worth emailing the address given, and ask if they would accept your order. Who knows?
Here's the Link to the air rifles for sale. Just click on the air rifle tab:
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm (http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm)
EDIT: Northern Lights, Thanks again for the CMP website. I have thought about an M1, (I'm ex-military),under this program before, but this kinda re-kindled my interest. I ordered a catalog, and may join up. For $25.00, and the discounts, it could well be worth it. Plus it does help a good organization. Thanks Again!!!
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The used air guns are for the training of new shooter you don,t need a membership card for used for the new gun at dicount prices you do.
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Smaug, I read your review for the 953 a while back. Its one of the reasons why I am asking about it now. However you have not clarified your above statement. Will your "three pump theory" apply to the Remington Airmaster 77 or the Daisy 22SG? The remington seems to be the same as the 2100, but with better parts.
Yes, it would apply to the Airmaster or 22SG. My "three pump theory" is based on the manufacturer's recommendation to not shoot it with fewer than 3 pumps.
(source: http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/AM77-OM2.pdf (http://www.crosman.com/pdf/manuals/AM77-OM2.pdf))
It appears to be the exact same gun as the 2100 Classic, but I've never seen one in the flesh. Do they have wood stocks? I don't know. But I'd bet that the internals are exactly the same.
On all the pump rifles I've experienced, 3 pumps is a good, usable velocity, usually about the same as a CO2 pistol, in the 400-450 fps range. They used to give an approximation of how many pumps gave which velocities, but they don't do it any more. If you look up the manual of the first generation Crosman 1377, for example, you'll see the velocity table. But the 2nd and 3rd generation instructions don't even hazard a guess.
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I just went to confirm the 3 pumps on the 22SG, but the manual doesn't seem to be on Daisy's site. I think that is their .22 cal version of the 880, right? Multi-pump pneumatic? If so, that holds true with the 3 pumps.
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I would have to disagree with you about the 1077 being junk. I have two and both are the funnest guns in the house. Sure their trigger is junk, but so are most stock triggers. low 600 fps makes it very back yard friendly and these things sip co2. I would not hesitate to hunt smaller game with it
After shooting a Buddy's QB78 I have to say its a very accurate gun. It is loud but there are ways to fix that.
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I guess I am missing the criteria. The ones I know are:
* Quiet
* Quiet
* Quiet
* Less than $350
Is there a power requirement? accuracy? I mean, a Red Ryder can shoot 20 yards...
Considering the first 3 items on the list above, you are going to have to sacrifice power. Your list should be trimmed to the following:
Daisy 953
Beeman R7
Beeman R9
Beeman Guardian/s550
Crosman Titan Low-velocity
Remington NPSS
Benjamin Trail
Stoeger x20s
Remington Airmaster 77 (how many pumps?)
Daisy 22SG (how many pumps?)
Cometa 220 Compact (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za774JAvSns#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za774JAvSns#ws) or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9InoTMha4_0&feature=related# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9InoTMha4_0&feature=related#))
QB78 (http://www.@#$%^.com/QB78-Chinese-Air-Rifle-p/qb78.htm (http://www.@#$%^.com/QB78-Chinese-Air-Rifle-p/qb78.htm))
Just the power of the R9, Stoeger and Benji Trail are going to make them project more (even suppressed). With the multi-pump guns, you are going to be making as much noise or more pumping as shooting, but the 953 (853, 753) is the better choice as a pneumatic, which is why I'd take off the multi-pumps. The gas rams are both good choices, but I do believe the Remington is the quieter of the two.
What you have left is different power sources: Pneumatic, break-barrel, piston/gas ram, and CO2. I include the R7 and Cometa 220 because you seem opposed to the Cometa... but the Cometa will be quieter because of the mderator. I would also add in something like the TF BS4 side-cocking target rifle... They are, however, apparently not imported...and if you found one it would most likely be used.
Any one of these would be a good, quiet choice.
Richard
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Thanks for the info airscopes. I was also unaware of the QB78. It looks nice, but I just can't give into a CO2 rifle. I am not opposed to the Cometa, it also looks nice, but you seem to be the only US dealer. If I bought it and something goes wrong, its off to the gunsmith. Not terrible, but likley more money spent than just calling the manufactuer.
Is there a power requirement? accuracy? I mean, a Red Ryder can shoot 20 yards...
I don't have a specific power or accuracy requirement, but I would like it to be around 400-500 fps. The 300 fps Red Ryder type guns won't do.
I would have to disagree with you about the 1077 being junk.
I had the wood stock version as a kid, no way the new one is built to the same standard. It would be a downgrade for me. Plus I have read quaity control is a big issue. Some people return the rifle 2 times before they get a good one.
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There is a Cometa repair center in the US. You would send it to Adventures in airguns.
I was kidding about the ryder.
Richard
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I don't have a specific power or accuracy requirement, but I would like it to be around 400-500 fps
This opens the door to the Air Venturi Bronco. It is sold via Pyramyd air.
I got one of these for my kids at same time I bought the R7.
An incredible bargain IMHO. Also very accurate and slightly quieter than the R7.
For backyard stealth shooting, this AG is perfect. It shoots at about 500fps with 8.4gr JSB .177 pellets.
R
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For backyard stealth shooting, this AG is perfect. It shoots at about 500fps with 8.4gr JSB .177 pellets.
Wow, I just looked at the specs and reviews on Pyramyd and it seems a good fit. As long as it is as quiet as you say, it will be perfect for me out of the box. Its also looks sturdy, which was another unspoken requirement I was keeping to myself
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Thanks for the info airscopes. I was also unaware of the QB78. It looks nice, but I just can't give into a CO2 rifle. I am not opposed to the Cometa, it also looks nice, but you seem to be the only US dealer. If I bought it and something goes wrong, its off to the gunsmith. Not terrible, but likley more money spent than just calling the manufactuer.
Is there a power requirement? accuracy? I mean, a Red Ryder can shoot 20 yards...
I don't have a specific power or accuracy requirement, but I would like it to be around 400-500 fps. The 300 fps Red Ryder type guns won't do.
I would have to disagree with you about the 1077 being junk.
I had the wood stock version as a kid, no way the new one is built to the same standard. It would be a downgrade for me. Plus I have read quaity control is a big issue. Some people return the rifle 2 times before they get a good one.
Then I would say that some people don't know how to shoot em then. From my bench I regularly get 3/8-7/16 at 15 yards. Way more then enough for birds or head shot'in small game. Add the AS kit to it and you have even more power and range.
I would not go so far as to compare it to an R7 but you asked for quiet and cheap.
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For backyard stealth shooting, this AG is perfect. It shoots at about 500fps with 8.4gr JSB .177 pellets.
Wow, I just looked at the specs and reviews on Pyramyd and it seems a good fit. As long as it is as quiet as you say, it will be perfect for me out of the box. Its also looks sturdy, which was another unspoken requirement I was keeping to myself
It is solidly built. Lots of info on this AG can be found online and there are a few in-depth video reviews too.
I had my doubts. But after 500 shots am amazed at the price-adjusted quality and accuracy. Even if I had to buy a new one every few years it would be moderately priced.
R
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Then I would say that some people don't know how to shoot em then.
The 1077 are being returned because the seals leak and empty the CO2 cartridges right out of the box. Like I said earlier, I spent a boatload on paintball back in the day, I know about CO2 leaks and fixing seals. It seems to me when combined with crappy QC, the 1077 will need more maintinance than I am willing to give to sub-$100 USD rifle.
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Co2 airguns many times have more of a "bark", than a pump airgun. As you said before, they are a bit of expense. Spring airguns have an inherent noise, due to the mechanics in the powerplant. The Bronco is a nice little shooter tho. The 953 or 853 are most likely, gonna be the quietest and accurate choices of all the group mentioned...in the target velocities, without mods.
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Just make sure you like straight-gripped stocks. They're not very good for shooting from a bench, but I don't mind them for shooting off-hand. Also, are you planning to scope it? That would make the loss of some sight radius a non-issue. (they did that to make the cocking effort easier by effectively extending the length of the lever)
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Co2 airguns many times have more of a "bark", than a pump airgun. As you said before, they are a bit of expense. Spring airguns have an inherent noise, due to the mechanics in the powerplant. The Bronco is a nice little shooter tho. The 953 or 853 are most likely, gonna be the quietest and accurate choices of all the group mentioned...in the target velocities, without mods.
Then I would say that some people don't know how to shoot em then.
The 1077 are being returned because the seals leak and empty the CO2 cartridges right out of the box. Like I said earlier, I spent a boatload on paintball back in the day, I know about CO2 leaks and fixing seals. It seems to me when combined with crappy QC, the 1077 will need more maintinance than I am willing to give to sub-$100 USD rifle.
I have read one post on this site about a 1077 leaking. That sure does not sound like "all of em" to me You have any idea how many of these they sell ?
You want cheap and quiet ? Try a 1377 and slap a carbine stock on it. Pump it 5 times and your good to go.
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You want cheap and quiet ? Try a 1377 and slap a carbine stock on it. Pump it 5 times and your good to go.
I actually just started looking into this after seeing some posted photos on the web. I see some with a longer barrel, where would I order this? Is istalling a new barrel something simple I can do myself or do I need to take it to the gunsmith.
It doesn't need to be cheap, unless you think $350 or less is cheap.
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The 1377 won't be any quieter than any of the other pump guns. As a matter of fact, it is about the loudest pumping noise ever, with the plastic fore-stock slapping against the cylinder.
The barrels are easy to exchange oneself. Actually, just about everything on this gun is easy to work on oneself. There's a healthy aftermarket, too. There's a forum just for Crosman air pistols, started by one of our members here:
http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?wwwRedirect (http://www.crosman-air-pistol-owners-forum.com/board/index.php?wwwRedirect)
The 2240 and 1377 are the big hits there.
Cool guns, but not that quiet.
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I have a Stoeger X20 S in .22 and it's very quiet to use in my neighborhood.
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I have a Stoeger X20 S in .22 and it's very quiet to use in my neighborhood.
Thanks for the info. I have gone through many topics and boards to come to my decision. It looks like I will be getting two rifles. One for hunting and another for backyard plinking. For sure I am getting the Stoeger x20s. I am on the fence with the Air Venturi Bronco or the Daisy 853/953 for the backyard.
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Get the Air Venturi Bronco! Phenomenal accuracy and very easy to cock i've always wanted one but never got around to it. :D
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Get the Air Venturi Bronco! Phenomenal accuracy and very easy to cock i've always wanted one but never got around to it. :D
Phenomenal accuracy??? That's a pretty tall statement pilgrim.....
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the daisy 22sg is probably the quietest air rifle with multipump available. even quieter than a r7. at 10 pumps mine shoots 14.3 crosman prems at 510 fps. mine actually likes rws hobbies and at 5 pumps i can shoot them at a target at 25 yards with not much drop.
another option no one seems to mention is the baikal izh60 or 61. is like a 953... but weirder and cooler... and the obvious choice would be a 1377 with a longer (18 inch) barrel and a shoulder stock... quiet as a mouse...it seems toexpand all its air behind the pellet before it exits the muzzle.
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... and a full done up 1377 will set you back about 100 bucks with the stock and barrel... you need 2 tools to change it. a flat head and a allen key...
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Momosgarage
4 pages and over 70 posts... got enough info yet?
PA Bronco, Crosman 1377, and the Daisy 22sg.
Now go buy one and report back!
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4 pages and over 70 posts... got enough info yet?
PA Bronco, Crosman 1377, and the Daisy 22sg.
Now go buy one and report back!
I have had comments like yours pop up on other message boards concerning different hobbies. To answer your question, NO, I can never get enough info on other peoples preferences and opinions. I would like the thread to go as long as it can. I'm the type that will buy or borrow a dozen+ rifles, try them and return three-quarters when I am satisfied. I hope you don't get offended by my lagging. I would like to keep the thread friendly because I have seen comments like your turn into hostilities.
another option no one seems to mention is the baikal izh60 or 61
I researched these too, but I heard they reduced the build quality significantly and they are not quiet at all.
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Stoeger makes a x20 suppressed version
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/stoeger-arms-x20s2-suppressor-air-rifle?m=2406 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/stoeger-arms-x20s2-suppressor-air-rifle?m=2406)
Academy, cabela's and evel walmart.com have a very good selection of air rifles..
Shocking walmart has a bunch of np crosman rifles for anywhere from $10 up to $30 cheaper then pa
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Air Venturi Bronco is super accurate and quiet, as lambchops stated above......
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Phenomenal accuracy??? That's a pretty tall statement pilgrim.....
What kind of groups are you getting out of YOUR Bronco, Mike, that you feel you can challenge that statement? Or were you going by some other info reported online, same as Lambchops?
4 pages and over 70 posts... got enough info yet?
It appears that he doesn't, and this post of yours was no further help. Did it occur to you that some folks may need to save money for a while prior to making a purchase, and in the meantime, all they can do is research?
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No, I don't have an Air Venturi Bronco, but my uncle has one and I shoot it at least once a month. I get a little under .300 c-t-c 5 shot groupings at 10 yards. Not even some pcp's are capable of that. That's why I said phenomenal.
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Before you buy/decide, did you read/watch this review on the X20S in .22?
http://www.airgunweb.com/2011/07/stoeger-x20s-airgun-review/ (http://www.airgunweb.com/2011/07/stoeger-x20s-airgun-review/)
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I have been looking to buy an air rifle for yard target practice. I haven't shot anything in years and are looking to try my hand at airgun hunting in the long term to supplement bow hunting. As it stands, I don't want to drive 30 minutes "to and from" the local outdoor range everyday just to shoot for 45 minutes, but I also don't live in a neighborhood where people will understand or be familiar with airguns. PCPs and air handguns are out of the question, I played paintball many moons ago and are not going to pay for that kind of equipment upkeep, so that leaves springers, gas pistons and pumps. Remember "quiet" is my number one priority. I have narrowed my choices down to the following:
Gas Piston: Crosman Titan Nitro Piston - Lower Velocity
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-titan-gp-nitro-piston-lower-velocity?m=2291 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/crosman-titan-gp-nitro-piston-lower-velocity?m=2291)
Remington NPSS
Springer: Stoeger x20s
Beeman Guardian/s550
Pump: Daisy 953
I understand that the Beeman and the Daisy are in a totally different class than the remington and crossman, but as I said "quiet" is the number one priority. It would be nice if I could hunt with the same rifle and have it be quiet, but I will buy two rifles if needed.
Also, I have considered buying the Stoeger x20s and immediately getting the main spring replaced by a better one along with a tune; OR just replacing the spring all together with a gas piston. If that will make it the quietest of the bunch I will pay whatever it costs. I want to stay under $350 on the rifle and then put what other money I have into the tune. Any other suggestions for the QUIETEST springer, pump or gas piston? Any ideas on the above. BTW everyone says the Benjamin pumps are quiet, I disagree and had them also many moons ago. RWS guns and most Beemans are out of my budget.
Get a .22 cal STOEGER X20S SUPPRESSOR . . . Send it to Gene and let him do a complete tune, install a Gas Ram, and a GRT-III trigger . . . Nice and QUIET !
Put a Leapers 3-12 x44 AO scope on there and you will be all set !
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YankeeDude , is giving excellent advice, and that STOEGER X20S will last a lifetime and more if you maintain it correctly.
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I tried a Gamo Whisper. Big mistake. Loud and I could not hit the broad side of a barn.
The .22 Whisper with a nitro piston has worked out well for me and very pleased with the accuracy. The noise is deflected backwards, so it's loudest for the shooter, but not so much off to the sides. Small yard here, and no noise complaints from the neighbors. Takes down raccoons quick and clean with 1 shot.
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I second the QB78 (deluxe) for 90 bucks. You can get an LDC for it, and you get about 50+ shots per 2 Co2 cartridges. About 530 fps and super accurate. But it's a full-size wood stock rifle. If you want something smaller for 10-20 yards, the Crosman 2240 pistol is really nice-- stick on an LCD -- it gives you about 35 shots on a single Co2 cart and can be modded all kinds of ways. I have a 2240 pistol ($60), and added a plastic stock, 18 inch barrel, steel breech, tweaked out the trigger and valve and have a nice little under-35-yard carbine.
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concerning the IZH... the quality is beyond good. the guns come with a replacement spring in case you outshoot yours (never seen it) and they are built like a tank (reallly overbuilt). the lessening on quality you might be referring to is the change in material for the breach, which went from metal to plastic. It is still overbuilt. They are definitely not loud as they almost reach 450 fps with medium weight (less noise than a x53) and their accuracy potential is beyond their price by 10 fold... They are a very good deal. and the cometa 220, if you can get one, will fill that niche too just a bit louder and about 250 fps faster. Mine is actually badged as a rws 92... it is my go to gun, always standing by the back door with a tin of super H points inches away. It is essentially a 7/8 version of a fwb124... (have one of those...best airgun ever).
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He doesn't want anything co2 powered or with any kind of sound suppressor, advice suggesting such is well meant, but not really helpful.
From reading his and others posts the Air Venturi Bronco looks like the best option for back yard shooting, a nice, quiet, accurate little carbine. There is no need to get 2 guns right away, he can get the Air Venturi Bronco and hone his shooting skills while saving up for a hunting rifle.
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A tuned B12 from MM tuned for under $85 would be great in either .177 or .22.
Great accuracy for under $100 and good out to 30 yards.
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yeah, absolutely... the b12 is a wonderful shooter... i tested one in .177, and it gives an R7 a run for its money. .22 was not available when i got my first, but now that sound like a good idea. In .22 is got to be the smoothest rifle out there.
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I have a B16 from MM tuned which is the same as a B12 but with synthetic pistol grip shark fin stock. About 480 fps in .22 and very quiet. All I hear is a "dionk" and the smack of what ever you hit. I think the smack is louder than the shot out of the gun. Good and accurate on rabbits out to 30 yards and a very light carbine easy to shoulder quickly.
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R7 is my vote. they come up on line for sale, super nice for around $250 sometimes with scope. I have 2 one for the grand children, 1 for me they both had 3-9 bug buster scopes shipped to me for $250.
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Why not an HW50 in .22? If the longest shots will be max 20 yards, some of the other rifles mentionned may be a bit too powerful for those close quarter ranges. If you're looking more towards the lower priced .22 guns, the B12 is an excellent example, and another all time classic would be the TF97. With some polishing of the trigger contacts, they can be made to shoot real nice. For a cheapo rifle, the power output is ample for your needs, and the barrels are above average in quality and accuracy. Nice carbine length that shoulders easy, and they are easy to work on for service and/or tunes.
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rws shutze? rws24?
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Which is more important.....accuracy or quiet?
Trail guns are quiet with the full shroud barrel, but do have some recoil (which will affect accuracy to an extent). CO2 guns are "no recoil" and can be very accurate, but may be too loud if you want "real quiet". But, for the price I'd check out the QB-78 from Mike Mellick or ^&$@_=s.
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I would go with the airgunsdaily crossman nitro, the lower velocity one is $99. I checked this morning. That would be quieter than a springer. Although my old Slavia 620 is very quiet.