GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: John Woodskills on February 04, 2016, 11:54:45 PM
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I'm sure this is addressed someplace but I've not found it yet.
I'm looking to buy my 1st break over piston or springer. I want it for some plinking and some hunting. I would like it to be able to take small game. Squirrels, Roger Rabbit, pigeons and the like.
I'm putting the ceiling at no more than $200 but would like it to be some less for now. In the future maybe a pcp but just can't afford one now.
I think I want a .22 nitros piston with iron sights.
Also, being a total newb, the whole s i l e n c e r issue on purchased airguns, is there really such a thing or are they all so called muzzle breaks?
As long as I use a heavy pellet shooting under the speed of sound all I really need to worry about is the sound of the power plant discharging, correct?
Thanks in advance, John.
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Most spring guns don't necessitate ear plugs, but if you're trying to shoot inside city limits or a populated area your neighbors will hear you. If your new to air guns, I would recommend going with one of the $100 range Ruger or Umarex rifles. You can spend a lot of money but there isn't really a need to. Some guys make fun of my four cylinder truck and say I need a V8. To each their own...
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Or the Remington Express
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Pyramyd Air currently has the Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 on sale for $99.99, plus the Touchdown-16 10% off code and if you're a first time buyer, they give you another 10% so you should be able to get it for $80.
I have one, shoots H&N FTT 14.66 gr pellets very well, right around 755 fps of the rated 800 fps, should handle the pests you mentioned and be good for target and plinking and the money saved could go towards a better scope as the Optima it comes with won't last long. There are any number of good air gun rated scopes in the $60-$80 range that would keep your total under the $200 you'd like to.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-edge-air-rifle-vortex-piston-black?m=3724 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-edge-air-rifle-vortex-piston-black?m=3724)
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
^^^ what he said ^^^ they're useless on a springer.
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Get in contact with Mike Melick at Flyingdragonairrifles. He has some great deals and can help you,plus you can get a rifle that's being checked over.Look at the Xs25 in .22 caliber.
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
^^^ what he said ^^^ they're useless on a springer.
The NP2 shroud seems to have some noticable effect, and the hatsan 125 sniper vortex I had for a few days almost seemed quieter than my R9. Some of them have some effect...
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Most spring guns don't necessitate ear plugs, but if you're trying to shoot inside city limits or a populated area your neighbors will hear you. If your new to air guns, I would recommend going with one of the $100 range Ruger or Umarex rifles. You can spend a lot of money but there isn't really a need to. Some guys make fun of my four cylinder truck and say I need a V8. To each their own...
Thanks
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Or the Remington Express
Thanks
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Pyramyd Air currently has the Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 on sale for $99.99, plus the Touchdown-16 10% off code and if you're a first time buyer, they give you another 10% so you should be able to get it for $80.
I have one, shoots H&N FTT 14.66 gr pellets very well, right around 755 fps of the rated 800 fps, should handle the pests you mentioned and be good for target and plinking and the money saved could go towards a better scope as the Optima it comes with won't last long. There are any number of good air gun rated scopes in the $60-$80 range.
This definitely has my attention. Thanks.
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
Thank you. This is what I've been starting to think.
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^^^ what he said ^^^ they're useless on a springer.
Thanks.
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Get in contact with Mike Melick at Flyingdragonairrifles. He has some great deals and can help you,plus you can get a rifle that's being checked over.Look at the Xs25 in .22 caliber.
I'll have to go look. Thanks.
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
^^^ what he said ^^^ they're useless on a springer.
The NP2 shroud seems to have some noticable effect, and the hatsan 125 sniper vortex I had for a few days almost seemed quieter than my R9. Some of them have some effect...
Why did you have it only a few days?
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I would go with Flying Dragon also. Get a full tune. He gives a lifetime warranty that's better than some of the high end airguns.
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
^^^ what he said ^^^ they're useless on a springer.
The NP2 shroud seems to have some noticable effect, and the hatsan 125 sniper vortex I had for a few days almost seemed quieter than my R9. Some of them have some effect...
Why did you have it only a few days?
It was a field supply refurb and the vortex piston dropped its power so I just sent it back.
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I would go with Flying Dragon also. Get a full tune. He gives a lifetime warranty that's better than some of the high end airguns.
Good to know. Thanks.
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
+1! Agree 100%
Ed
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I saw a Daisy 1000 at a pawn shop the other day for $30. It was a bit scratched up, but that didn't bother me. I would have bought it but it was missing the scope and the front sight. Had a real nice light and handy feel to it though.
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Welcome to GTA. I would recommend a Hatsan 95 in .22. I have one with the spring piston and it's a sweet shooter. It usually runs between $100 and $150 based on what kind of deal you find. If you're planning on using a scope, I would recommend change the rings that come with it to a one-piece mount. The factory scope works if you like it but don't expect it to perform like a $100 scope. Some people might say the scope should go in the trash so it's up to you.
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Pyramyd Air currently has the Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 on sale for $99.99, plus the Touchdown-16 10% off code and if you're a first time buyer, they give you another 10% so you should be able to get it for $80.
I have one, shoots H&N FTT 14.66 gr pellets very well, right around 755 fps of the rated 800 fps, should handle the pests you mentioned and be good for target and plinking and the money saved could go towards a better scope as the Optima it comes with won't last long. There are any number of good air gun rated scopes in the $60-$80 range that would keep your total under the $200 you'd like to.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-edge-air-rifle-vortex-piston-black?m=3724 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-edge-air-rifle-vortex-piston-black?m=3724)
I was going to suggest the exact same thing but Steve did it already. I use mine in .25 without a scope. It's light, powerful and extremely accurate. For a bit longer range than 30/35 yards get the .22. Run a couple of drops of GooGone or Simple Green on a patch down the bore then run patches through until they come out clean. Mine had quite a bit of oil in it. Do this before even firing it or it will diesel and be about as loud as a powder burner .22. The first few shots will be a bit louder then she'll quiet down.
It's an outstanding rifle for the $$$ but the scope is pretty cheap--most fail pretty quickly. I just ordered another one in .22. Good luck with whatever you decide to get.
Ed
The Hatsan 95 is also a great choice and has a better trigger with more adjustability. I have a .22 Vortex (gas piston) one. Great rifle but it is quite a bit heavier and more $$$.
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While looking at a suggested site I was looking at a .25 Hatsan.
It has better knock down, is it a legit consideration or just a distraction?
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Are you referring to the Hatsan Mod 25 or a .25 cal Hatsan? If you want a more powerful rifle, I would go with the Hatsan 125 in .25. I also have one and it's very powerful. However, it's not an all-day plinker because it's hard to cock.
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I have the Model 95 (7 1/2 lbs unscoped) and the Edge Vortex (6 1/2 lbs unscoped) in .25 caliber and they definitely have knockdown power. A couple things to consider will be what kind of distances you might be shooting at and pellet availability.
Most of my shooting is 30 yards or less and the .25 does that very well. If you're going to be shooting farther, the .22 is probably the better option and you'll also find pellets in .22 easier although as mentioned in my earlier post, mine shoots H&N FTT (Field Target Trophy) pellets very well so I make use of Pyramyd Air's Buy 3 get the 4th tin free deal. Airgun Depot also has the same deal.
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Most knowledgeable folks keep their airgun's muzzle velocity to around 850-950fps. Airgun pellets don't behave well (decreased accuracy) travelling/transitioning to and from the speed of sound because of their shape and weight.
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I would get clear understanding between springer and piston first then move on to other suitabilities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlPylqmGWLo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlPylqmGWLo)
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John,
With that budget there is a decent possibility you will need to be handy. Also, your budget doesn't seem to take a scope into account.
If you are willing to give up the followup shot in favor of higher percentage of chances for an accurate AND inexpensive shooter, I'd suggest looking at Daisy.
The 880's might need some mod work
The 901's have some of the so-called mod work you might perform on an 880 done
The 853 refurbs from CMP are more pricey but excellent shooters (I'm told)
Benefit of an 880 or 901 is they are quiet at ten pumps but you can hear them, though at maybe 4 pumps you can practice quite silently and they can be very accurate. Even better they are available at WalMart so if you don't get a good one you can return it until you do...
I have one of the other suggested guns, Remington Express. Mine had a bent barrel (which I straightened), which put the sights at limit but the optically centered scope close - then can't use the scope yet because the barrel pivot was gritty and has worked loose. Most are decent from what I've read - just going on record so you have a idea of what I meant by percentage on the springers...
If you are handy you should consider a Chinese knock off, i.e. B1 or B3. Very inexpensive, not hard to work on, and will leave you some budget for a scope. BTW, you said you wanted a gas ram gun, springs can be made to be quite smooth shooting, especially if tuned.
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A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant, while still delivering the power to make lethal shots on traditional airgun quarry to 40 plus yards.
Will second the suggestion of an RWS34 (new, used or refurb) or XS25 from: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51)
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Hi, everyone. If you don't mind me joining in and sharing my note.
I'm on a same boat with you, John. I've watched and read many reviews. These are my notes so far and narrow down to Hatsan Edge and Mod 95 as of today 02/05/16. The Edge .22 is in my basket and tempting to pull a trigger :-)
- My budget is up to $150 or a little more for a .22 rifle, some $50 for other like pellets and strap, max $200.
- Brand: I picked Hatsan because of German steel barrel (personal preference) and many accuracy reviews. I mean a smallest chance getting a bad or poor one out the box. Not to mention different pellet types use for a group testing to findout an accuracy.
- Hatsan 95/Edge: it's 50/50 for me. Accuracy are similar. about $50 more for nice wood stock, smoother trigger and additional 1.2 lb weight.
- spring/vortex: about $20-30 more. It's 60/40 for me because I like repairing stuff and keep things for long time. Replacement parts are hard to find and pricey. Main spring is cheaper than nitro piston which maybe replace vortex with custom made insert. Some says vortex less noise and easier cocking than spring, some says no different. Each person hears things differently(One person can hear a squirrel running but not his wife talking). So that will depend on my neighbor's complaint. Out in the wood, it's up to the muzzle to minimize noise, not by power plant. Some reviewer mentioned about noise different on location of detector, shooter vs. target. Sound wave bounces on walls/objects.
- New/refurb: it's 75/25 for me. About $30-50 less for refurb which some comes with or without "a nice handle." There is a higher risk of getting poor barrel because it's a return and repaired rifle. It maybe other mechanical issue that got fixed or not even fixed as example one mentioned "... refurb and the vortex piston dropped its power so I just sent it back." Scratch and scuff are minor consideration. Warranty is 12 vs 3 months. Note: Hatsan has a recall model Striker which was on my list.
My current thought keep looking maybe another good deal pops up. I don't usually jump on the first good deal :-) Hatsan Edge Vortex at pa is good price right now with discount code and get some pellets or handle replacement to get free shipping over $150 order. I prefer spring but this case gas power for spring power's price ;-)
Let's see if Hatsan 95 has some good deal next, anytime now at Bargain Gate. BTW, I see a thread topic: "Current Deals that set a Price/Value Standard" is good info baseline price what other recently got sweet deal. http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103889.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103889.0)
About a Chinese knock off, I'm handy but like playing with my toy, not repairing (my thought).
I like to say thanks to all of you for sharing your on hand experiences.
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- Brand: I picked Hatsan because of German steel barrel (personal preference) and many accuracy reviews. I mean a smallest chance getting a bad or poor one out the box.
Gump,
German steel is a marketing ploy - steel is steel, no different than anyone else's.
Biggest considerations come after you purchase, warranty, parts support, aftermarket support, etc.
Reason I suggested the Chinese knockoffs if you are handy - you could easily get 2 or 3 of them, work on them, and still come out ahead on $$$ - but it's not most peoples first choice to be sure.
Another expense most folks don't pay attention to is pellets. Some guns are very picky or simply won't shoot certain ones. I had one that wouldn't even go into the breach, and another that shot 4-5" groups inside 15 yards. Then there's the scope --- see fine at 40 yards, OK, but if you are aiming at something as small as a sparrow good luck telling him from a finch, bluebird, chickadee, etc. at that distance. In other words, no scope in the budget now but if you plan to shoot beyond 10-15 yards at something small it will be...
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A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant, while still delivering the power to make lethal shots on traditional airgun quarry to 40 plus yards.
Will second the suggestion of an RWS34 (new, used or refurb) or XS25 from: http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51 (http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51)
Unbeatable for the money IMO.
http://www.airgundepot.com/diana-rws-34p.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/diana-rws-34p.html)
Scotty
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Head spinnin' yet John? No surprise if it is. My .02, stick with .22 spring or piston but get a good trigger! FlyingDragon has a good following here, so they must be good. RWS 34 also gets mentioned a LOT.
I tried a Hatsan and didn't care for their trigger. I now have three RWS guns and love the T05 and 06 triggers. A 34 will cost a bit over your posted target price, but will be worth it in the long run.
Welcome to the site.
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Head spinnin' yet John? No surprise if it is. My .02, stick with .22 spring or piston but get a good trigger! FlyingDragon has a good following here, so they must be good. RWS 34 also gets mentioned a LOT.
I tried a Hatsan and didn't care for their trigger. I now have three RWS guns and love the T05 and 06 triggers. A 34 will cost a bit over your posted target price, but will be worth it in the long run.
Welcome to the site.
Head spinning?
You have no idea. :o
But then again, this exactly what I was asking. I'm enjoying this emencely.
Thanks everyone. Please keep up the advice. Looks like Gump and I are going to benefit greatly from this thread.
John.
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- Brand: I picked Hatsan because of German steel barrel (personal preference) and many accuracy reviews. I mean a smallest chance getting a bad or poor one out the box.
Gump,
German steel is a marketing ploy - steel is steel, no different than anyone else's.
Biggest considerations come after you purchase, warranty, parts support, aftermarket support, etc.
Reason I suggested the Chinese knockoffs if you are handy - you could easily get 2 or 3 of them, work on them, and still come out ahead on $$$ - but it's not most peoples first choice to be sure.
Another expense most folks don't pay attention to is pellets. Some guns are very picky or simply won't shoot certain ones. I had one that wouldn't even go into the breach, and another that shot 4-5" groups inside 15 yards. Then there's the scope --- see fine at 40 yards, OK, but if you are aiming at something as small as a sparrow good luck telling him from a finch, bluebird, chickadee, etc. at that distance. In other words, no scope in the budget now but if you plan to shoot beyond 10-15 yards at something small it will be...
My apology, not meant to offend your suggestion at all. It's good advise for more options for sure. I agree steel is steel, I'm a sucker on their marketing hype LOL. Thanks for the pointer about pellets as I mentioned that there's a need to do a pellet group testing. I also agree about the scope that's my plan to get rifle in low $100 and decent scope around $50-70. That will bring total over 150 for free shipping. What do you think?
About the support & services, yes, I'm reading this thread: Factory & Aftermarket Support http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103631.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103631.0). Crosman and Daisy are top then Flying dragon. Hatsan is not much to say. I hopping that there are chinese clone parts compatible or some cross reference for most rifles. I will do more research on this. Again thanks for your input.
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A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant,]
Whats the biggest critter you've taken with the .177 and also with the .22?
Was there regret of under power or not enough grain weight?
I'm fairly familiar with the concept of flat and fast vrs heavy and arched. I've preferred tradritional archery with homemade wooden arrows at shorter yards vrs cams and pullies shooting carbon missiles or centerfire .303 brit and 7.62 NATO over .243 or .218 and love the venerable 45/70 of my family member. So I'm bent to lean towards heavy and lobbed in if you understand me. I'm starting to see the benefits of fast and flat though.
I prefer shorter ranges at this time.
I do think I'll be going next to a .177 for my boys. We will be able to see which one works for our intended uses.
Thank you for your input. John.
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Head spinnin' yet John? No surprise if it is. My .02, stick with .22 spring or piston but get a good trigger! FlyingDragon has a good following here, so they must be good. RWS 34 also gets mentioned a LOT.
I tried a Hatsan and didn't care for their trigger. I now have three RWS guns and love the T05 and 06 triggers. A 34 will cost a bit over your posted target price, but will be worth it in the long run.
Welcome to the site.
Head spinning?
You have no idea. :o
But then again, this exactly what I was asking. I'm enjoying this emencely.
Thanks everyone. Please keep up the advice. Looks like Gump and I are going to benefit greatly from this thread.
John.
Heck yeah, keep it comin' :-)
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Hatsan's customer service is great. The gas ram on my Hatsan 95 failed about a month after buying it. I contacted them and they told me to ship it. I talked to them and asked for a spring to be installed instead of the gas ram and they had no problem with it at no charge to me. A couple of weeks later my rifle came back and it's been a great shooter since.
I also contacted them because the cheek-piece adjustment screw fell off of my Mod 125 Sniper and they sent me a new one without any problem.
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My apology, not meant to offend your suggestion at all.
You didn't ;D
my plan to get rifle in low $100 and decent scope around $50-70. That will bring total over 150 for free shipping. What do you think?
Sounds good!
Forgot to add, in today's market everybody seems to be cutting labor as much as possible and more stuff gets through QC with problems. I'd suspect percentages are higher in getting a good one when you spend more from a quality-minded manufacturer but I think anyone can wind up getting a lemon or shipping-damaged gun in any price range. So if you can buy from WalMart they have a great return policy if something is wrong with it, and likewise there are some internet dealers better than others. I'd suggest this should also be a consideration?
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My apology, not meant to offend your suggestion at all.
You didn't ;D
my plan to get rifle in low $100 and decent scope around $50-70. That will bring total over 150 for free shipping. What do you think?
Sounds good!
Forgot to add, in today's market everybody seems to be cutting labor as much as possible and more stuff gets through QC with problems. I'd suspect percentages are higher in getting a good one when you spend more from a quality-minded manufacturer but I think anyone can wind up getting a lemon or shipping-damaged gun in any price range. So if you can buy from WalMart they have a great return policy if something is wrong with it, and likewise there are some internet dealers better than others. I'd suggest this should also be a consideration?
John,
With that budget there is a decent possibility you will need to be handy. Also, your budget doesn't seem to take a scope into account.
If you are willing to give up the followup shot in favor of higher percentage of chances for an accurate AND inexpensive shooter, I'd suggest looking at Daisy.
The 880's might need some mod work
The 901's have some of the so-called mod work you might perform on an 880 done
The 853 refurbs from CMP are more pricey but excellent shooters (I'm told)
Benefit of an 880 or 901 is they are quiet at ten pumps but you can hear them, though at maybe 4 pumps you can practice quite silently and they can be very accurate. Even better they are available at WalMart so if you don't get a good one you can return it until you do...
I have one of the other suggested guns, Remington Express. Mine had a bent barrel (which I straightened), which put the sights at limit but the optically centered scope close - then can't use the scope yet because the barrel pivot was gritty and has worked loose. Most are decent from what I've read - just going on record so you have a idea of what I meant by percentage on the springers...
If you are handy you should consider a Chinese knock off, i.e. B1 or B3. Very inexpensive, not hard to work on, and will leave you some budget for a scope. BTW, you said you wanted a gas ram gun, springs can be made to be quite smooth shooting, especially if tuned.
I am so new I didn't know there were chinese knockoffs. No surprise there though.
I really do prefer to get a break over this time. I'm not ruling out a pump in the future. On that thought the youngest fancies a crossman 1377 and wants a shoulder stock on it. I'll probably do that for him to keep the fun up. I already have 2 that like their electronic devices better than being outside. :'(
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Hatsan's customer service is great. The gas ram on my Hatsan 95 failed about a month after buying it. I contacted them and they told me to ship it. I talked to them and asked for a spring to be installed instead of the gas ram and they had no problem with it at no charge to me. A couple of weeks later my rifle came back and it's been a great shooter since.
I also contacted them because the cheek-piece adjustment screw fell off of my Mod 125 Sniper and they sent me a new one without any problem.
Thats rare in the customer service dept now days. Says lots to me. Thanks.
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I already have 2 that like their electronic devices better than being outside. :'(
Same here :'(
When I was a kid the only days I stayed indoors was during a hurricane (not always, but mostly) or if I was being punished...
As an adult remember fondly having all three televisions broken, but my wife made me fix them - that was long time ago, before TV's were throw aways
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I'm sure this is addressed someplace but I've not found it yet.
I'm looking to buy my 1st break over piston or springer. I want it for some plinking and some hunting. I would like it to be able to take small game. Squirrels, Roger Rabbit, pigeons and the like.
I'm putting the ceiling at no more than $200 but would like it to be some less for now. In the future maybe a pcp but just can't afford one now.
I think I want a .22 nitros piston with iron sights.
Also, being a total newb, the whole s i l e n c e r issue on purchased airguns, is there really such a thing or are they all so called muzzle breaks?
As long as I use a heavy pellet shooting under the speed of sound all I really need to worry about is the sound of the power plant discharging, correct?
Thanks in advance, John.
Are you 100% set on the .22 ?
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[/quote]
When I was a kid the only days I stayed indoors was during a hurricane (not always, but mostly) or if I was being punished...
As an adult remember fondly having all three televisions broken, but my wife made me fix them - that was long time ago, before TV's were throw aways
[/quote]
Yeah. When I was a kid indoors was for sleeping, eating (uh...sometimes) homework, canning, and a couple other things. True living was outdoors.
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Are you 100% set on the .22 ?
[/quote]
No. Leaning towards a .25 now.
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... in today's market everybody seems to be cutting labor as much as possible and more stuff gets through QC with problems.
Ain't that the truth. If I buy, I have to pay for their QC which is so called "Tuning service" for $100, daWn new-generation LOL. I rather buy a higher grade/price range model.
So if you can buy from WalMart they have a great return policy if something is wrong with it, and likewise there are some internet dealers better than others. I'd suggest this should also be a consideration?
That's another good pointer, I had this Benjamin Titan $127.66 from Wallie on my research list. It does not say Titan but the model no. BW8M22NP is. External link is not allowed. Just search by the model no. in case any one interested.
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Are you 100% set on the .22 ?
I set for .22 for my usage. I missed .20 Sheridan Silver that I had sometime ago.
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Quote from: Yrok on Today at 13:06:20
A .177 barrel cocker will have a flatter trajectory than in a .22 caliber from the same powerplant,]
Quote from: John Woodskills on Today at 16:00:28
Whats the biggest critter you've taken with the .177 and also with the .22?
Was there regret of under power or not enough grain weight?
I'm fairly familiar with the concept of flat and fast vrs heavy and arched. I've preferred tradritional archery with homemade wooden arrows at shorter yards vrs cams and pullies shooting carbon missiles or centerfire .303 brit and 7.62 NATO over .243 or .218 and love the venerable 45/70 of my family member. So I'm bent to lean towards heavy and lobbed in if you understand me. I'm starting to see the benefits of fast and flat though.
I prefer shorter ranges at this time.
I do think I'll be going next to a .177 for my boys. We will be able to see which one works for our intended uses.
Thank you for your input. John.
Glad I'm not a newby!
My longest kill shot with a .177 barrel cocking steel spring airgun was a headshot with an HW95k/R10 with Leupold 3-9x33EFR, on a nutria at 75 yards. Longest with a .22 barrel cocker was a nutria, headshot at 50 yards with an HW80k/Leupy 3-9x33EFR. Longest kill with a '64 Sheridan Blue Streak .20/8 pumps + hold over/open sights, was a nutria headshot at 50 yards. Also a headshot on another nutria with a Benjamin 397P-N .177/8 pumps + hold over/open sights, at 50 yards. All were from a standing offhand position and were laser ranged. There have been many similar shots with various older Dans/Benjamins/RWS34s, etc. from 20 to 40+ yards.
Airgun hunting requires trajectory considerations similar to archery or looong range centerfire! Shot placement is KING!
"Was there regret of under power or not enough grain weight?"
Only regret is not being 100% accurate 100% of the time.
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Are you 100% set on the .22 ?
No. Leaning towards a .25 now.
[/quote]
I would stay with the .22 in a springer unless you get up into monsters like the Hatsan 125. Your not going to gain much even in a magnum break barrel. Maybe 1-2 ft. lbs energy. Not worth giving up pellet selection and availability.
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Yup. Being a Newby has its drawbacks but who has never learned from trial and error or asking questions?
As with anything worthwhile it'll take some time.
Thanks for the info.
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Or the Remington Express
Good rifle, but they are getting hard to find. Get one before they are gone.
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I like the speed and penetration of the small .177 pellets in general. But the pellets are hard to handle compared to a 14 grain 5mm or .22.
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Or the Remington Express
Good rifle, but they are getting hard to find. Get one before they are gone.
Just shot a group with mine 2.2" @ 9.5 yards, iron sights, CPHP (best out of 9 pellets tried). Gonna have to quit recommending it until I get around to working on it. Contacted their Customer Service again - they were so clueless you would think Remington made swimming pools :-\
Edit: Oops, bad day, bad week, not best pellet, just don't wanna waste the good ones on iron sights. Rest is still true and best pellets so far are not a lot better. Anyway, wanna tell it like it is - sorry
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I would recommend sticking to .22 for a number of reasons. One being that the pellet selection and price of pellets is great in .22, and pretty poor in .25. The other reason being that most spring guns won't push a .25 pellet very fast, and it will make for a "rainbow" trajectory that makes it hard to hit distant targets. Any gun is capable of plinking and modest target shooting, so I think you need to think about what it takes to ethically take small game. To me, this rules out .177 caliber. Accuracy will always be the most important part of any weapon, but power is still necessary for a clean kill. I would be looking at .22 caliber rifles that can break 700 fps with regular lead pellets like crosman premiers. I would recommend the Hatsan 95 in .22 or the Umarex Octane in .22. The Hatsan has a much better trigger and good power, while the Octane has superior power and a much smoother shooting cycle. The Octane costs a bit more ( a hair over you $200 limit), but also comes with a very useable 3-9x40AO scope that will serve you well for hunting or shooting targets. The scope is probably worth $50 by itself. The Hatsan is cheaper but the bundled scope is junk. Both will shoot hard enough to take game up to about 6-8 lbs with a clean shot, and both will shoot groups of a little under an inch at 25 yards. With practice, you should be able to take squirrels and rabbits out to about 30 yards. To hunt further than that, you need a more expensive rifle with better accuracy. If you find you are bitten hard by the bug, you could step up to a Benjamin Discovery in .22 and a hand pump and hunt out to about 50 yards. But that will cost double what you plan on spending. If you really want to stay well below your budget, I would recommend the Crosman Optimus .22 at $110 with a 4x scope. It is still close in power and accuracy to the others I mentioned, though you will eventually want to upgrade the scope. It is about the best you can do for around $100. Make sure to save up for a lot of pellets to test as well.
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Thank you for taking time providing a very helpful info.
Question about the Umarex Octane, isn't it categorized as high or magnum power? like Hatsan 125th?
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I'm very grateful for your information. My head is spinning with the amount of concern and time each of you are putting into my question.
I am humbled.
I have heard the pros of all three calibers and the cons as well. I can only imagine the hours spent for each of you to have made these decisions. For myself I am leaning towards a .25 for a short range hunter and am really torn on the .22 vrs .177 for plinking and hunting for my sons.
I am very very thankful for your input. John.
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For myself I am leaning towards a .25 for a short range hunter and am really torn on the .22 vrs .177 for plinking and hunting for my sons.
For a .25 to have any kind of decent trajectory it's gotta be pushed pretty hard, meaning magnum class. They are harder to learn to shoot, and the beefier power plants make more vibrations - translation, less accuracy = less suitability for hunting (especially if the kill zone is small).
For kids I know I'm going to catch some flack for this, but sometimes kids make mistakes. A mistake with a .177 pellet weighing 7.4 gr. is sometimes ah,"less", than a .22 weighing ~14.3 gr. I think I looked up "falling to earth" on my .177 pellets once and it was .2 ft#
Hope I'm not just repeating some of what's been said - not sure I recall the whole thread :-\
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My Edge rifles were actually an easy decision. Inexpensive, lightweight, out of the box accurate with just a good barrel cleaning and my .25 is very good inside the 30 yards or so I shoot.
Might be just odd thinking on my part but 1 for you in your wanted .25 and .177's for the sons. As you learn the ins and outs of yours, it would make it easier showing those things to your sons while teaching them all the parts and pieces that go along with gun safety and shooting and for the price, they'd make a nice starting rifle and one they could both grow into until you decide they're ready for the next caliber, plus help and tips from owners here on the forum. Heck, get Mom into things and get her one too! (She is on board with all this I hope)
Again, just my odd 2 cents...good luck with your decision and let us know what you finally decide.
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I'm very grateful for your information. My head is spinning with the amount of concern and time each of you are putting into my question.
I am humbled.
I have heard the pros of all three calibers and the cons as well. I can only imagine the hours spent for each of you to have made these decisions. For myself I am leaning towards a .25 for a short range hunter and am really torn on the .22 vrs .177 for plinking and hunting for my sons.
I am very very thankful for your input. John.
Sounds like you really want that .25 cal. Just keep a good supply of pellets on hand. You don't have to have a Magnum to make a close range hunting gun. Heck, you could stretch it on out to 40 or 50 yards I hunted growing up with a .22 cal shooting around 600 fps. Perfectly doable. The Hatsan 95 Rick tested here was putting light .25's over 600 fps.
Sometimes we get caught up in over thinking things ;D I'll make it simple.
1. Watch this video on the Hatsan 95 Vortex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQZ8a1poX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQZ8a1poX4)
2. Go to amazon and get the Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .25 for 172.00 shipped. http://www.amazon.com/Hatsan-Rifle-Combo-Vortex-Spring/dp/B00JV7ZJRW (http://www.amazon.com/Hatsan-Rifle-Combo-Vortex-Spring/dp/B00JV7ZJRW)
Or At Pyramyd Air for 179.00 with the 10% off and free shipping code. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-95-air-rifle-combo-vortex-gas-spring?m=3411 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-95-air-rifle-combo-vortex-gas-spring?m=3411)
Note: You can get it for 179.00 at Pyramyd Air with the code and free shipping. Get the 10 for $10.00 if you want them to shoot it over the chrony. Adds a day or so to delivery. Pyramyd is most likely better
to deal with if you did have a problem with your airgun.
3. Get some H&N Field Target Trophy .25 Cal, 20.06 Grains pellets. Amazon or Pyramyd Air. Note: You can get it for 179.00 at Pyramyd Air with the code and free shipping. Get the 10 for $10.00 if you want them to shoot it over the chrony. Adds a day or so to delivery. Pyramyd is most likely better to deal with if you did have a problem with your airgun.
Also pick up some Hatsan Vortex Supreme PCP .25 Pellets 19.91 grains from Amazon. I would not go over 24 grains.
4. Now the hard part, Waiting on the UPS truck.
5. Enjoy
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My Edge rifles were actually an easy decision. Inexpensive, lightweight, out of the box accurate with just a good barrel cleaning and my .25 is very good inside the 30 yards or so I shoot.
Might be just odd thinking on my part but 1 for you in your wanted .25 and .177's for the sons. As you learn the ins and outs of yours, it would make it easier showing those things to your sons while teaching them all the parts and pieces that go along with gun safety and shooting and for the price, they'd make a nice starting rifle and one they could both grow into until you decide they're ready for the next caliber, plus help and tips from owners here on the forum. Heck, get Mom into things and get her one too! (She is on board with all this I hope)
Again, just my odd 2 cents...good luck with your decision and let us know what you finally decide.
Yes sir. Mom was raised around firearms and is quite the shot with a center fire. Our 3 boys have been taught the basics but I want to be able to keep them in good practice. With the shortage of .22lr over the last few years the airgun is a natural choice for us. My eldest 2 think everything must have a cord to be worth any time and energy but I'm hoping the youngest can provoke them into having a good time outdoors with dad.
I'm looking forward to this adventure. If it gets me closer to my boys then it's worth it. If mom chose to get involved with the 4 of us then that would ice the cake.
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I'm very grateful for your information. My head is spinning with the amount of concern and time each of you are putting into my question.
I am humbled.
I have heard the pros of all three calibers and the cons as well. I can only imagine the hours spent for each of you to have made these decisions. For myself I am leaning towards a .25 for a short range hunter and am really torn on the .22 vrs .177 for plinking and hunting for my sons.
I am very very thankful for your input. John.
Sounds like you really want that .25 cal. Just keep a good supply of pellets on hand. You don't have to have a Magnum to make a close range hunting gun. Heck, you could stretch it on out to 40 or 50 yards I hunted growing up with a .22 cal shooting around 600 fps. Perfectly doable. The Hatsan 95 Rick tested here was putting light .25's over 600 fps.
Sometimes we get caught up in over thinking things ;D I'll make it simple.
1. Watch this video on the Hatsan 95 Vortex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQZ8a1poX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQZ8a1poX4)
2. Go to amazon and get the Hatsan Mod 95 Vortex .25 for 172.00 shipped. http://www.amazon.com/Hatsan-Rifle-Combo-Vortex-Spring/dp/B00JV7ZJRW (http://www.amazon.com/Hatsan-Rifle-Combo-Vortex-Spring/dp/B00JV7ZJRW)
Or At Pyramyd Air for 179.00 with the 10% off and free shipping code. https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-95-air-rifle-combo-vortex-gas-spring?m=3411 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-95-air-rifle-combo-vortex-gas-spring?m=3411)
Note: You can get it for 179.00 at Pyramyd Air with the code and free shipping. Get the 10 for $10.00 if you want them to shoot it over the chrony. Adds a day or so to delivery. Pyramyd is most likely better
to deal with if you did have a problem with your airgun.
3. Get some H&N Field Target Trophy .25 Cal, 20.06 Grains pellets. Amazon or Pyramyd Air. Note: You can get it for 179.00 at Pyramyd Air with the code and free shipping. Get the 10 for $10.00 if you want them to shoot it over the chrony. Adds a day or so to delivery. Pyramyd is most likely better to deal with if you did have a problem with your airgun.
Also pick up some Hatsan Vortex Supreme PCP .25 Pellets 19.91 grains from Amazon. I would not go over 24 grains.
4. Now the hard part, Waiting on the UPS truck.
5. Enjoy
I so love to see the brown truck to pull up in the yard.
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I can see that you are pretty set on the .25 caliber. As someone who has been around the block with quite a few springers, I'd strongly recommend against it. Get something docile in .177, maybe .22
People way overestimate the power that is needed for ethical hunting. 99% of airgun game can be hunted extremely effectively with 12 fpe airguns.
My current hunting gun? A Beeman R7 putting out 6.83 fpe. But it is laser accurate. I can shoot the gonads off of a fly out to 40 yards. It'll hunt everything up to a rabbit in size at that range.
Precison>power when in comes to airguns.
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I can see that you are pretty set on the .25 caliber. As someone who has been around the block with quite a few springers, I'd strongly recommend against it. Get something docile in .177, maybe .22
People way overestimate the power that is needed for ethical hunting. 99% of airgun game can be hunted extremely effectively with 12 fpe airguns.
Exactly. We all tend to get hypnotized by the .25 caliber. For pigeons, rabbits, squirrels, and plinking? The .25 you have to order and cost about the same as my 22 lr ammo. I don't like wasting it on paper or cans usually. It is nice to run down to the store and get a can of cheap stuff and not worry about not ordering. A crosman nitro .22 will not disappoint for your first break barrel. Mine was a Benjamin Trail NP and after a long break in I love that gun. I don't know why so many people diss the .177? For your purposes it would be ideal. Have lots of tins laying around and the kids can use it in their Daisy 880s or Flying Dragon XS 12s. Want a bigger hole? Look what a fire tip gamo can expand to or a crow magnum! Good luck on your decision. Don't over think as you are losing out on trigger time. Get in the game! T
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To be honest, those things on the end of spring or piston guns are for looks and some make a nice handle. I can't tell the difference.
+1! Agree 100%
Ed
There are several advantages: optics, better grip when cocking, protection of blueing, being able to use the whole barrel length for leverage when cocking. I don't expect it to improve accuracy. In fact i'm keen on seeing no accuray decrease if i shoot the gun with the muzzle brake on. :)
I sometimes shoot just a few pellets and with the delrin muzzle brake on my HW30S and Diana 280 i don't need to wipe down the barrel with Ballistol each time. Also the sharp dovetail edge of the removed front sight doesn't cut into your hand.
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Yep. .25 cal pellets are 8.99 for 200 ct on the low side, Average closer to 15.00.
You can get cheap .177's for 1.99 for 250 count for just plinking and decent pellets for around 7.00 for 500.
.22 cal is just a little more than .177.
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Well, last ah, nay-saying (?) of the .25 calibre's, it was late, long day, and I was almost lights out...
Just going to elaborate a little, as .25 is a fine calibre for hunting and has its place to be sure. It's just that first thing you notice with that calibre and springers or gas rams is that people that post groups seem to mostly post larger spreads. No - not everyone, but MOST. Of those, a higher percentage will "settle" for a larger group with them. Some give excuses, lower expectations, poorer eyesight, open sights (sometimes because a magnum springer will eventually kill almost any scope), but there are a few guys on the forum that can shoot better than one inch groups with them at 50 yards, if memory serves.
It's just that the majority who get these magnum springers aren't hunting with them past 15 to 25 yards. They are a lot more recoil, hold sensitive, heavy, etc. and that makes them a bugger to learn and harder to shoot great groups with than guns in the 12 to 15 FPE range. Not only that, but while you're learning to see if you can, you are paying 5 cents a round or more (ten for Polymags) vs. what, around a penny each for .177's?
Then there's the choices on who makes them. There are fewer manufacturers making these .25 cal guns in spring/gas ram. The bargain priced and best value for the buck tends to point mostly to Hatsan. They have some quality control issues and, well, parts availability is also something to consider.
I'm going to cut it short here as the points can be beat to death and it sounded like you had made up your mind anyway - but I've got a Hatsan 125 (vortex) in .25 cal. and after a year now I still don't even have a clue if the barrel is good on it because I haven't been able to get it to group due to various issues I'm still (too patently) working through. Long story to be sure and the last of it obviously my procrastinating while debating if I wanted to break the warranty but point is, these issues just plain come up less often in .177 and even .22 cal. guns.
We're here for ya though, whatever you decide if you have any issues just holler and lots of folks here will be glad to help out all we can ;D
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Well, last ah, nay-saying (?) of the .25 calibre's, it was late, long day, and I was almost lights out...
Just going to elaborate a little, as .25 is a fine calibre for hunting and has its place to be sure. It's just that first thing you notice with that calibre and springers or gas rams is that people that post groups seem to mostly post larger spreads. No - not everyone, but MOST. Of those, a higher percentage will "settle" for a larger group with them. Some give excuses, lower expectations, poorer eyesight, open sights (sometimes because a magnum springer will eventually kill almost any scope), but there are a few guys on the forum that can shoot better than one inch groups with them at 50 yards, if memory serves.
It's just that the majority who get these magnum springers aren't hunting with them past 15 to 25 yards. They are a lot more recoil, hold sensitive, heavy, etc. and that makes them a bugger to learn and harder to shoot great groups with than guns in the 12 to 15 FPE range. Not only that, but while you're learning to see if you can, you are paying 5 cents a round or more (ten for Polymags) vs. what, around a penny each for .177's?
Then there's the choices on who makes them. There are fewer manufacturers making these .25 cal guns in spring/gas ram. The bargain priced and best value for the buck tends to point mostly to Hatsan. They have some quality control issues and, well, parts availability is also something to consider.
I'm going to cut it short here as the points can be beat to death and it sounded like you had made up your mind anyway - but I've got a Hatsan 125 (vortex) in .25 cal. and after a year now I still don't even have a clue if the barrel is good on it because I haven't been able to get it to group due to various issues I'm still (too patently) working through. Long story to be sure and the last of it obviously my procrastinating while debating if I wanted to break the warranty but point is, these issues just plain come up less often in .177 and even .22 cal. guns.
We're here for ya though, whatever you decide if you have any issues just holler and lots of folks here will be glad to help out all we can ;D
The Hatsan 95 will spit 19 grain .25's at around 630 fps. It's not a power house which makes it easier to shoot. Looks very accurate from Rick's review in the video above. Not what I would prefer, but if you really wanted a .25 for that extra pop sound when shooting a pigeon it would be decent.
Myself, if I was getting a springer in the $200.00 range for small game and target shooting it would be a Walther Terrus in .177. Awesome built German springer that is very forgiving to shoot, not so hold sensitive, and very accurate. Hard to beat this Airgun for $204.00 at Amazon for the Composite stock. $240ish for wood stock.
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The Hatsan 95 will spit 19 grain .25's at around 630 fps. It's not a power house which makes it easier to shoot. Looks very accurate from Rick's review in the video above. Not what I would prefer, but if you really wanted a .25 for that extra pop sound when shooting a pigeon it would be decent.
Yup, the 95's are the in-betweeners to be sure. I am reluctant to recommend them in gas ram lately due to a recent increase in QC related postings on them. Regular pricing might have been on-budget (I don't recall), but they can be had on sale/special, sometimes with a spring. IMHO the spring version is preferable.
You are 100% correct, these 95's can be very accurate. Still more $$$ for .25 ammo...
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The Hatsan 95 will spit 19 grain .25's at around 630 fps. It's not a power house which makes it easier to shoot. Looks very accurate from Rick's review in the video above. Not what I would prefer, but if you really wanted a .25 for that extra pop sound when shooting a pigeon it would be decent.
Yup, the 95's are the in-betweeners to be sure. I am reluctant to recommend them in gas ram lately due to a recent increase in QC related postings on them. Regular pricing might have been on-budget (I don't recall), but they can be had on sale/special, sometimes with a spring. IMHO the spring version is preferable.
You are 100% correct, these 95's can be very accurate. Still more $$$ for .25 ammo...
Methuselah, why do you prefer the spring over the piston? I was going for the piston because of they are supposed to be quieter and are supposed to not be affected by long term being cocked.
Are these not real concerns?
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Nitro Piston, open sights and now not set in a particular caliber...
this is where I would go
http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle (http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle)
I had several Crosman Nitro pistons in the past and have a .177 Titan right now that has the same powerplant as this one and it has plenty power and accuracy for hunting in your required situations.
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Nitro Piston, open sights and now not set in a particular caliber...
this is where I would go
http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle (http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle)
I had several Crosman Nitro pistons in the past and have a .177 Titan right now that has the same powerplant as this one and it has plenty power and accuracy for hunting in your required situations.
I had that AR look a like and you can forget the open sites. it has a shroud around the barrel only glued and after 30 shots it rotates and can be taken off. sent 3 back all the same sent the last one to crosman with $75 and they sent me a 22 discovery. isn't it something where most guys want a canon to start with even firearms. you are one of the few that need a thumper
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sweet deals over at Pyramd. Trail NP2 with up graded scope on sale with 10% off and free shipping. Crosman Shockwave NP .22 or .177 $99 with $10 rebate! I have to stop searching as I will buy another gun that I don't need.
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The Hatsan 95 will spit 19 grain .25's at around 630 fps. It's not a power house which makes it easier to shoot. Looks very accurate from Rick's review in the video above. Not what I would prefer, but if you really wanted a .25 for that extra pop sound when shooting a pigeon it would be decent.
Yup, the 95's are the in-betweeners to be sure. I am reluctant to recommend them in gas ram lately due to a recent increase in QC related postings on them. Regular pricing might have been on-budget (I don't recall), but they can be had on sale/special, sometimes with a spring. IMHO the spring version is preferable.
You are 100% correct, these 95's can be very accurate. Still more $$$ for .25 ammo...
Methuselah, why do you prefer the spring over the piston? I was going for the piston because of they are supposed to be quieter and are supposed to not be affected by long term being cocked.
Are these not real concerns?
True, probably less concern leaving a gas piston cocked but if buying Hatsan's they are drilling a hole through the receiver after manufacture to facilitate charging the ram.
On those where that hole doesn't line up they hit with a reamer and all the shavings left in the gun from that will damage the seal.
A few have also reported failed rams, and if you ever have to replace a ram or spring the spring is a LOT cheaper...
Just my .02 and personal preference - I'm sure most folks getting the 95's are perfectly happy with them. The Hatsan's are a lot of gun for the $$$ but QC can be hit or miss.
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From Methusalah - A few have also reported failed rams, and if you ever have to replace a ram or spring the spring is a LOT cheaper..
The ram for the NP2 is $8.00, you can't get much cheaper than that. Also much easier to replace.
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Yep, rather replace a Gas Ram than a spring anyday.
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From Methusalah - A few have also reported failed rams, and if you ever have to replace a ram or spring the spring is a LOT cheaper..
The ram for the NP2 is $8.00, you can't get much cheaper than that. Also much easier to replace.
Aren't those crosman? I hear most have, ah, "lacking" triggers- no? Anyway, I was speaking of the Hatsan parts cost. Do you put NP2 rams in the Hatsan's? Would de interested in that for sure - are they a straight drop-in mod, and do they perform equally?
Thanks!
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https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-titan-gp-nitro-piston-air-rifle?m=2603 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/benjamin-titan-gp-nitro-piston-air-rifle?m=2603)
149.00 with scope,...cheap enough to have some money left to upgrade scope later, I have this gun in .177 and really like it, I had the Crosman Nitro Venom in .22 ( same gun ) and preferred that one than the Diana 34 in .22 I had
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Nitro Piston, open sights and now not set in a particular caliber...
this is where I would go
http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle (http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle)
I had several Crosman Nitro pistons in the past and have a .177 Titan right now that has the same powerplant as this one and it has plenty power and accuracy for hunting in your required situations.
I had that AR look a like and you can forget the open sites. it has a shroud around the barrel only glued and after 30 shots it rotates and can be taken off. sent 3 back all the same sent the last one to crosman with $75 and they sent me a 22 discovery. isn't it something where most guys want a canon to start with even firearms. you are one of the few that need a thumper
Was out shooting my MRT77 today with open sites and was getting some nice groups at about 12 yards. Never had a problem with the shroud coming loose and have at least a 1000 rounds through it now. I like it. Trigger pull is long and it's hold sensitive.
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The Hatsan 95 will spit 19 grain .25's at around 630 fps. It's not a power house which makes it easier to shoot. Looks very accurate from Rick's review in the video above. Not what I would prefer, but if you really wanted a .25 for that extra pop sound when shooting a pigeon it would be decent.
Yup, the 95's are the in-betweeners to be sure. I am reluctant to recommend them in gas ram lately due to a recent increase in QC related postings on them. Regular pricing might have been on-budget (I don't recall), but they can be had on sale/special, sometimes with a spring. IMHO the spring version is preferable.
You are 100% correct, these 95's can be very accurate. Still more $$$ for .25 ammo...
Methuselah, why do you prefer the spring over the piston? I was going for the piston because of they are supposed to be quieter and are supposed to not be affected by long term being cocked.
Are these not real concerns?
The gas piston is nice because it shoots like a springer with a tune kit installed. Smooth and no Twang. I have mixed feeling about the gas piston. I am always worried it will leak down and some do. Springs do break also I guess, but seem a little more reliable, or at least I trust them more because gas rams have not proven themselves to me totally. As far as leaving it cocked. I treat both Spring and ram the same. I cock them and go hunting. I don't worry about leaving them cocked for 4-5 hours. I don't have a reason to leave one cocked all day or night. To me the trade off is a nice smooth shot cycle in a cheap gun for the possibility I might have to replace a gas ram more often than a spring.
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From Methusalah - A few have also reported failed rams, and if you ever have to replace a ram or spring the spring is a LOT cheaper..
The ram for the NP2 is $8.00, you can't get much cheaper than that. Also much easier to replace.
Aren't those crosman? I hear most have, ah, "lacking" triggers- no? Anyway, I was speaking of the Hatsan parts cost. Do you put NP2 rams in the Hatsan's? Would de interested in that for sure - are they a straight drop-in mod, and do they perform equally?
Thanks!
Talk to Tyler at PA, as far as I know, they still do gas ram upgrades using the Crosman gas rams. As far as triggers, I'm pretty sure one of the Charlie triggers fits the NP rifles, GRT III I think. Also don't remember which one but one of the Benjamins? has a .25 caliber option and better parts availability...still leaves pellets but order ahead and any number of places online sell them.
My original recommendation of the Edge Vortex .25 was made for several reasons: John's original thoughts were a short range hunting rifle with a gas ram. Owning both the Hatsan 95 Vortex .25 and the Edge Vortex .25 I can compare them hands on. Both have the Vortex piston and the same power tested with a chrony. My personal view of short range hunting is anything inside 35 yards and at that distance they're both great rifles.
The Edge weighs in about 6 1/2 pounds and with a scope, about 7 1/2. The 95 unscoped is 7 1/2 pounds, add one and it's closer to 9 depending on how big a scope you use. No, the Edge doesn't have a Quattro trigger but the one it does have can be made better with a .25 cent screw from the hardware store. The hollow stock can also be filled any number of ways without adding more than a few ounces of weight to reduce the hollow sound when you shoot. Both of those are very minor drawbacks to a lightweight, hard hitting, accurate rifle. Neither of them has what I'd call serious recoil either and they recoil just about the same even with the 95 having that SAS system in it.
Yes again, .25 caliber pellets aren't readily available but personally, I don't mind ordering mine especially when I can buy 3 and get the 4th tin free and I can mix and match the pellets I know my rifles shoot well.
Last but not least and anyone can read this on the forum: Yes, Hatsan has QC issues...then again, so does pretty much every rifle maker out there. Pick any Gate you want and someone in one of them has a brand new rifle they have some kind of issue with regardless of price point they paid for it from a $100 Hatsan to top of the line $800-$1000 springers. There have been several replies in this thread alone on issues with rifles and how the different companies dealt with them so is it possible to get a lemon? Definitely and the stories are here for everyone to read.
John, once again, Welcome to the GTA and again, good luck making your final decision...and my apologies for adding to the head spinning.
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Talk to Tyler at PA, as far as I know, they still do gas ram upgrades using the Crosman gas rams.
Good informative post, perhaps the allure of having the Hatsan part had more to do with being able to adjust pressure - I know there was some kind of difference but didn't recall them being interchangeable - my bad, that's a very cool option when you consider the prices. Is there also a cheap Crosman alternative to the rams in the 125's?
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That question you have me on...don't honestly know if Crosman has more than one size ram but if you're calling Tyler at PA, I would think he can give you whatever answers you need.
There might also be a few threads on here about the Crosman ram swaps. Had one myself but it was about converting my Optimus spring to the gas ram and I went with a spring just because I hadn't even gotten to shoot the rifle yet (free rifle, broken spring) to see if it shot well enough to consider it.
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Benjamin Trail XL Gas Spring. Part # BT1500-00-2 Fits the 125/135 Hatsans.
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Benjamin Trail XL Gas Spring. Part # BT1500-00-2 Fits the 125/135 Hatsans.
Will definitely price out that one just in case - thanks Jeff!
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I shoulda known Jeff would have an answer...I know where to find some things...he knows where all of them are...lol
I also just completed my Edge Vortex set and bought the .177 to go with my .25 and .22... there was no sale on the .177 except the current 10% discount but they gave me free targets and $110 is still a good deal.
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scp52,
You really cover all Edge's ;D. Now, I am toward the Edge (.22) rather than 95. I would like to know your recommendation to pick pellet brand / weight for a group test for Hatsan Edge. How many size and what are they?
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Been using custom steel alloy coil springs for 35+ years and would rather rebuild an airgun with a 10,000 shot steel spring than a gas ram, any day. The metallurgy, temper, and sizing for specific use of some aftermarket springs is waaay ahead of the factory springs or rams that come in the mass produced retail market airguns and are much more home tunable. Don't care for the discharge 'feel' or cocking force of a strong gas ram either.
The only way to know for sure is to have first hand operational experience with similar grades/power levels of each type.
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scp52,
You really cover all Edge's ;D. Now, I am toward the Edge (.22) rather than 95. I would like to know your recommendation to pick pellet brand / weight for a group test for Hatsan Edge. How many size and what are they?
I vote for the JSB Kings 15.39 gr. but plain ol' Crosman PHP 14.3 gr. do well in mine also.
Ed
Just remembered I was thinking of my 95 .22. Just got an Edge Vortex in .22 but haven't shot it yet!
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I vote for the JSB Kings 15.39 gr. but plain ol' Crosman PHP 14.3 gr. do well in mine also.
Thank you. Should I order just these two? enough for first time group test?
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scp52,
You really cover all Edge's ;D. Now, I am toward the Edge (.22) rather than 95. I would like to know your recommendation to pick pellet brand / weight for a group test for Hatsan Edge. How many size and what are they?
As I was reminded, we could buy the same rifle with one number difference in the serial numbers and yours might very well end up shooting a different pellet than mine.
The usual go to brands to try at the start are H&N Field Target Trophy 14.66 grain (my Edge .22 likes the 5.53 head size) or JSB in either the Jumbo RS 13.43 or like Ed aka Old Corps said, the JSB Exact 15.89. I have all 3 and they all shoot very well in all my .22's.
You can also try the Crosman Premier Hollow Points from Walmart. They seem to shoot really well for a lot of people and if nothing else, you can use them for breaking in the rifle. I have some and keep shooting them but so far no luck with the accuracy part but maybe I just got one of the bad tins you hear about.
I'm getting quite the pellet library with rifle 10 on the way and rifles in all 3 calibers....lol
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Gump, you asked about the Octane's power level. I would consider the Octane to fall under ultra-magnum like the hatsan 125, and the Ruger air magnum. I have an Octane in .22 and it shoots a 14.3 grain crosman premier at a 10-shot average of 883 fps for a hair under 25 ft/lbs of muzzle energy. It hits significantly harder than any of my other springers. I wasn't sure I would like an ultra-magnum, but it quickly became one of my go-to plinkers. I didn't find it hard to cock or shoot, and it really shines when taking shots past 50 yards.
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... Octane's power level... I wasn't sure I would like an ultra-magnum, but it quickly became one of my go-to plinkers. I didn't find it hard to cock or shoot, and it really shines when taking shots past 50 yards.
That's exactly my concern as newbie, too much power and can not hit anything. You just help me gain some confidence. I think I can, I think I can, ...
The usual go to brands to try at the start are H&N Field Target Trophy 14.66 grain (my Edge .22 likes the 5.53 head size) or JSB in either the Jumbo RS 13.43 or like Ed aka Old Corps said, the JSB Exact 15.89. I have all 3 and they all shoot very well in all my .22's.
Thank you, sorry about going off the subject but still relate to Hatsan Edge recommendation.
More question, I chat with PA, they don't carry tune parts for this rifle. Where do you get these seals, spring or gas piston for the Edge? Are they Crosman's parts compatible? I read about nitro with some modified parts.
The ram for the NP2 is $8.00, you can't get much cheaper than that. Also much easier to replace.
Is this for real? more info/link, please. PA has it for $50 or $100 for conversion.
Pyramyd Air currently has the Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 on sale for $99.99, plus the Touchdown-16 10% off code and if you're a first time buyer, they give you another 10% so you should be able to get it for $80.
I just chat with PA, I can not use both discounts, only one :( I was ready to pull a trigger on this order but put safety switch back on.
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I've only seen a new Edge Vortex ONCE for any less $$$. That was when PA had it on sale for $99.99 and had an 11% off promo. That made it 99.999999 CENTS less. ::) Remember the normal price is $119.99. Getting it for $90 is 25% off the normal price, darn good deal!
Ed
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Gump, I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Octane as a great overall airgun, but as far as reasonably affordable super-magnum guns go, the Octane impresses me. The rifle is very heavy and long, with a very thick barrel. I think this offsets the increased energy fairly well, and makes it easier to cock. The firing cycle is surprisingly smooth for the power level. It is less hold-sensitive than I expected too. For a hunter that will go after larger game, it would be a very good choice as long as lugging a heavy rifle isn't a big concern. I am going to do a fairly in-depth accuracy test of mine at 50 yards when the wind settles down. In fairness, I have owned four of these rifles, and gifted three away. I kept the best shooting one, of course, but they varied from 0.46" at 25 yards to 0.89" at 25 yards. I put a Bushnell Banner 6-24x40 on the one I kept and it has not had any problems holding zero. The Picatinny rail also allows a much wider choice of rings.
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Nitro Piston, open sights and now not set in a particular caliber...
this is where I would go
http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle (http://www.amazon.com/Crosman-MTR77-Tactical-Style-Handle/dp/B00CBQULSM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1454873077&sr=8-2&keywords=crosman+mtr77+np+air+rifle)
I had several Crosman Nitro pistons in the past and have a .177 Titan right now that has the same powerplant as this one and it has plenty power and accuracy for hunting in your required situations.
I had that AR look a like and you can forget the open sites. it has a shroud around the barrel only glued and after 30 shots it rotates and can be taken off. sent 3 back all the same sent the last one to crosman with $75 and they sent me a 22 discovery. isn't it something where most guys want a canon to start with even firearms. you are one of the few that need a thumper
Was out shooting my MRT77 today with open sites and was getting some nice groups at about 12 yards. Never had a problem with the shroud coming loose and have at least a 1000 rounds through it now. I like it. Trigger pull is long and it's hold sensitive.
I got it when they first came sounds like they fixed the problem. I got it for practice for high power where a use a PB AR. I loved it until the plastic shroud got loose. At first it just leans a little to the right or left
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Gump, the NP2 piston is indeed $8.00, per Crosman CS, but it only fits the NP2. From others that have ordered one, I think the NP, or XL piston is around $40.00 from Crosman.
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Gump, the NP2 piston is indeed $8.00, per Crosman CS, but it only fits the NP2. From others that have ordered one, I think the NP, or XL piston is around $40.00 from Crosman.
holly cow, that is fantastic 8 for NP2 and 40 is reasonable for NP. Thanks
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I can't recall if the last XL Piston I ordered was $30 or $40 then shipping.
I can tell you they upgraded the XL Pistons.
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Gump, the NP2 piston is indeed $8.00, per Crosman CS, but it only fits the NP2. From others that have ordered one, I think the NP, or XL piston is around $40.00 from Crosman.
Pyramyd Air has them at 50.00. Last time I checked with Crosman they were under 20.00 Maybe they were closer to 25.00.(About a year ago). 40.00 to 50.00 is way to much, unless they are now made in the USA and of much higher quality. I still need one for my Benjamin trail, but doubt I would pay that for the same Made in China Nitro Piston.
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Any of you guys heard of Robert Hamilton, airgun hunter/author and proponent of legislative changes to 'legalize' airgun hunting? Also a prolific farm pester on the west coast, and frequent contributor to airgun forums in years past. Some of his 'hunting airguns' of choice and their proven effective ranges may surprise you.
http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?p=94420&sid=f51dcf6647b364816cbfe5a091acdd94 (http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?p=94420&sid=f51dcf6647b364816cbfe5a091acdd94)
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The usual go to brands to try at the start are H&N Field Target Trophy 14.66 grain (my Edge .22 likes the 5.53 head size) or JSB in either the Jumbo RS 13.43 or like Ed aka Old Corps said, the JSB Exact 15.89. I have all 3 and they all shoot very well in all my .22's.
Thank you, sorry about going off the subject but still relate to Hatsan Edge recommendation.
More question, I chat with PA, they don't carry tune parts for this rifle. Where do you get these seals, spring or gas piston for the Edge? Are they Crosman's parts compatible? I read about nitro with some modified parts.
I just chat with PA, I can not use both discounts, only one :( I was ready to pull a trigger on this order but put safety switch back on.
The Edge already comes with a Vortex gas piston in it. Air Rifle Headquarters has the piston seal, $12.00 and also a great place tobuy the moly paste for lubing. The rifle comes with a 1 year warranty so if you have a problem in that first year, they'll fix it.
After that you'd have to talk to Hatsan about how much they charge to fix it or PA about how much to convert it to the Crosman nitro piston. If you decided you wanted to convert to a spring instead, I think ARH sells a couple springs that will fit the Hatsan rifles, the E3650 or the Tarantula, but you'd actually have to call them to make sure.
Like Ed said, $90 is a great price for the rifle considering it's normally $119.99 but they usually have them on sale every other month, so does Airgun Depot, so if you miss this sale, watch both sites, they will be again. It's a nice rifle for the price and my .22 Edge over the chrony is shooting 755fps average.
I got the Touchdown deal on my .177 but apparently the .177 isn't on sale, so mine was $109.99. Sent them an e-mail asking why the difference and Erika e-mailed back saying it's hunting season and that's why only the .22 and .25 are on sale. Apparently PA doesn't consider .177 a small game caliber so it wasn't included in the sale.
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Any of you guys heard of Robert Hamilton, airgun hunter/author and proponent of legislative changes to 'legalize' airgun hunting? Also a prolific farm pester on the west coast, and frequent contributor to airgun forums in years past. Some of his 'hunting airguns' of choice and their proven effective ranges may surprise you.
http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?p=94420&sid=f51dcf6647b364816cbfe5a091acdd94 (http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?p=94420&sid=f51dcf6647b364816cbfe5a091acdd94)
Makes me want to push forward and get a HW 50 which I have been contemplating for some time now. But recently that Walter Terrus is sounding really good for its accuracy and price tag.
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Any of you guys heard of Robert Hamilton, airgun hunter/author and proponent of legislative changes to 'legalize' airgun hunting? Also a prolific farm pester on the west coast, and frequent contributor to airgun forums in years past. Some of his 'hunting airguns' of choice and their proven effective ranges may surprise you.
http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?p=94420&sid=f51dcf6647b364816cbfe5a091acdd94 (http://www.airgunadvice.net/viewtopic.php?p=94420&sid=f51dcf6647b364816cbfe5a091acdd94)
Makes me want to push forward and get a HW 50 which I have been contemplating for some time now. But recently that Walter Terrus is sounding really good for its accuracy and price tag.
You might also consider the HW95. Mine is silly accurate as long as I do my part and sweet deal for $299.95 + shipping. The target is about 30 shots at 30 yards using a lawn chair for a rifle rest...I need a better bench but I'll take this....
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That is a hard deal to pass up. I don't understand why the HW 50 would be $70 more than the 95. I just want an in between gun. Sub 12 ft lbs and only 40 inches. HW 30 would be sweet but sounds like the 50 would be just right. I don't hear people mention the 50 like they do with the 95 and 30. Always wondered why...
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Heee hAAA!!! I finally pull the trigger on Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 at PA ($103.42 shipped). I would like to thank all of you for sharing with plenty of info more than I(newbie) can handle.
My final thought, this Edge is a lowest deal with highly recommended among other. I prefer spring, this vortex one is lower price and it's a chance to try out a gas piston as many people seem to like it. I can get a spring kit later which is cheaper way than get spring then convert to gas. It is a good bottom price starter rifle(I think) and left me plenty for an upgrade scope under my $200 budget. It's time to go to waly-world for scope and pellets.
John, I thank you for start this thread. It's your turn to pull :-)
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Heee hAAA!!! I finally pull the trigger on Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 at PA ($103.42 shipped). ...
John, I thank you for start this thread. It's your turn to pull :-)
I'm green with envy my friend. I had life happen this weekend at almost the same moment I was going to pull the trigger on an Edge in .25
Darn furnace took a dive!
My "Extra" money is now warming my house, the wife and 3 boys. Maybe in a week or three...
Be sure to post your fun. I'm still looking by default.
John.
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steel is steel, no different than anyone else's.
I don't think it matters much in air rifles, but no, there are grades in quality of steel
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That is a hard deal to pass up. I don't understand why the HW 50 would be $70 more than the 95. I just want an in between gun. Sub 12 ft lbs and only 40 inches. HW 30 would be sweet but sounds like the 50 would be just right. I don't hear people mention the 50 like they do with the 95 and 30. Always wondered why...
IMO, it is because there is enough 'real world use' overlap between the HW30 and HW95 that it cancels out the HW50, with its jointed cocking link. Can slightly up-tune a 30 and can go either up or down with a (get the 'k' barrel for a shorter OAL) 95. Did you note that R.H. was able to take many ground squirrel and crows at 40+ yards with an HW30? This should reduce some of the anxiety over the power level needed to kill small game.
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I may be late on the conversation but the Ruger Yukon is a solid gun at $200 price point... I have one going on 1 1/2 years now and its accurate and powerfull... my personal preference is a nitro piston gun over spring. Most take 300 - 500 shots to pass a break in period. Good luck
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Heee hAAA!!! I finally pull the trigger on Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 at PA ($103.42 shipped). I would like to thank all of you for sharing with plenty of info more than I(newbie) can handle.
My final thought, this Edge is a lowest deal with highly recommended among other. I prefer spring, this vortex one is lower price and it's a chance to try out a gas piston as many people seem to like it. I can get a spring kit later which is cheaper way than get spring then convert to gas. It is a good bottom price starter rifle(I think) and left me plenty for an upgrade scope under my $200 budget. It's time to go to waly-world for scope and pellets.
John, I thank you for start this thread. It's your turn to pull :-)
I'd check Natchez Supply online for a scope. They always have some smokin deals. Look at the closeouts.
Here's ON SALE link for you. $25 to $100
http://www.natchezss.com/optics/rifle-scopes.html#dir=asc&istock=202997&order=position&price=2,25.00,3,25.00,4,25.00&ribbon=29 (http://www.natchezss.com/optics/rifle-scopes.html#dir=asc&istock=202997&order=position&price=2,25.00,3,25.00,4,25.00&ribbon=29)
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I'd check Natchez Supply online for a scope. They always have some smokin deals. Look at the closeouts.
Here's ON SALE link for you. $25 to $100...
Holly scope!!! another head spin :-) something that I'm not even familiar with terms, a lot of reading to do. Thank you for the info. Any tip what to look for and avoid? Just few general tips, don't want to flood info off the topic.
John, sorry! If you don't mind.
Later I will start a new post about a scope.
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I'd check Natchez Supply online for a scope. They always have some smokin deals. Look at the closeouts.
Here's ON SALE link for you. $25 to $100...
Holly scope!!! another head spin :-) something that I'm not even familiar with terms, a lot of reading to do. Thank you for the info. Any tip what to look for and avoid? Just few general tips, don't want to flood info off the topic.
John, sorry! If you don't mind.
Later I will start a new post about a scope.
I've never had a scope break on a springer, but I've only had one. I have had a reticle come loose inside one on a 30-06 though, so I'm guessing that's the weak link.
With this in mind, I'd probably get the BSA with etched reticle. I think I saw it on there for $65 or $89.
Although this Bushnell Trophy looks like an outstanding deal. http://www.natchezss.com/bushnell-trophy-xlt-riflescope-150889.html (http://www.natchezss.com/bushnell-trophy-xlt-riflescope-150889.html)
I've used one of these before in a 3-9x40 and really liked it. For an economy scope, you'd be hard pressed to find a better scope at a better price.
This one doesn't have high magnification, but I like the 36mm size. And the crossbow reticle should correlate well to an air rifle.
Only problem is, it has a 5" eye relief. Meaning you'll have to mount it fairly far forward, and the field of view could be slightly narrower than a similar scope with a shorter eye relief.
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I'd check Natchez Supply online for a scope. They always have some smokin deals. Look at the closeouts.
Here's ON SALE link for you. $25 to $100...
Holly scope!!! another head spin :-) something that I'm not even familiar with terms, a lot of reading to do. Thank you for the info. Any tip what to look for and avoid? Just few general tips, don't want to flood info off the topic.
John, sorry! If you don't mind.
Later I will start a new post about a scope.
I don't mind at all. I'm learning stuff, I'm good.
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Heee hAAA!!! I finally pull the trigger on Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 at PA ($103.42 shipped). I would like to thank all of you for sharing with plenty of info more than I(newbie) can handle.
My final thought, this Edge is a lowest deal with highly recommended among other. I prefer spring, this vortex one is lower price and it's a chance to try out a gas piston as many people seem to like it. I can get a spring kit later which is cheaper way than get spring then convert to gas. It is a good bottom price starter rifle(I think) and left me plenty for an upgrade scope under my $200 budget. It's time to go to waly-world for scope and pellets.
John, I thank you for start this thread. It's your turn to pull :-)
I'd check Natchez Supply online for a scope. They always have some smokin deals. Look at the closeouts.
Here's ON SALE link for you. $25 to $100
http://www.natchezss.com/optics/rifle-scopes.html#dir=asc&istock=202997&order=position&price=2,25.00,3,25.00,4,25.00&ribbon=29 (http://www.natchezss.com/optics/rifle-scopes.html#dir=asc&istock=202997&order=position&price=2,25.00,3,25.00,4,25.00&ribbon=29)
Those BSA Essential Air Rifle Scopes look pretty decent from 42.00 - 62.00. I have a BSA Contender 3-12X40mm and really like it. I prefer the non-lighted to save weight. I never even put the batteries in the ones I have.
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John,
PM sent
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That is a hard deal to pass up. I don't understand why the HW 50 would be $70 more than the 95. I just want an in between gun. Sub 12 ft lbs and only 40 inches. HW 30 would be sweet but sounds like the 50 would be just right. I don't hear people mention the 50 like they do with the 95 and 30. Always wondered why...
IMO, it is because there is enough 'real world use' overlap between the HW30 and HW95 that it cancels out the HW50, with its jointed cocking link. Can slightly up-tune a 30 and can go either up or down with a (get the 'k' barrel for a shorter OAL) 95. Did you note that R.H. was able to take many ground squirrel and crows at 40+ yards with an HW30? This should reduce some of the anxiety over the power level needed to kill small game.
yes killing is all that matters
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I can see that you are pretty set on the .25 caliber. As someone who has been around the block with quite a few springers, I'd strongly recommend against it. Get something docile in .177, maybe .22
People way overestimate the power that is needed for ethical hunting. 99% of airgun game can be hunted extremely effectively with 12 fpe airguns.
Exactly. We all tend to get hypnotized by the .25 caliber. For pigeons, rabbits, squirrels, and plinking? The .25 you have to order and cost about the same as my 22 lr ammo. I don't like wasting it on paper or cans usually. It is nice to run down to the store and get a can of cheap stuff and not worry about not ordering. A crosman nitro .22 will not disappoint for your first break barrel. Mine was a Benjamin Trail NP and after a long break in I love that gun. I don't know why so many people diss the .177? For your purposes it would be ideal. Have lots of tins laying around and the kids can use it in their Daisy 880s or Flying Dragon XS 12s. Want a bigger hole? Look what a fire tip gamo can expand to or a crow magnum! Good luck on your decision. Don't over think as you are losing out on trigger time. Get in the game! T
100% agree. When the first gas piston rifles came out, they were all the rage with a lot of claims of being stronger and more reliable/usable than a traditional springer. Time told the truth as folks started seeing failures from leaking pistons and scope damage due to the shock of the piston slamming home.
Our EU brethren are limited to 12fpe (no matter the caliber), without an expensive FAC they have to buy to be legal. .177@10.3 or 10.5g pellets40 yards taking rabbits and vermin have been no problem for them. They take much pride in their accuracy. I love the flat flying, accuracy of the .177 heavy for hunting up to the 35yd area. That's my limit based on my confidence for responsible and ethical hunting. Pellets like the Beeman Crow Magnum is a great expander! The headshot is the key. Accuracy is paramount. The .22 gives you a little more luxury with body shots...but if you miss vitals...it makes no difference. The .177 Heavy &.22s are capable hunters. Good Luck to U.
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As far as scopes go,
It's hard to select a scope without the rifle you plan to use it on. The reason is that they react differently to the power of the 2 way shock they see in a springer or gas piston rifle. Some rifles are proven to be very hard on scopes, but you may get a beauty that's docile. By the same token, there have been folks who received very rough examples of models that were supposed to be very good. So I say that it's best to get and break it in first.
The Crossman Centerpoint scopes are generally in stock at your local Box store or Sporting goods store. Lets you play with it, look thru it, and if it fails you can quickly get replacements. If you mail order and it fails, it costs you $10 minimum to mail it back and some require you to pay postage to return your replacement.
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I can see that you are pretty set on the .25 caliber. As someone who has been around the block with quite a few springers, I'd strongly recommend against it. Get something docile in .177, maybe .22
People way overestimate the power that is needed for ethical hunting. 99% of airgun game can be hunted extremely effectively with 12 fpe airguns.
Exactly. We all tend to get hypnotized by the .25 caliber. For pigeons, rabbits, squirrels, and plinking? The .25 you have to order and cost about the same as my 22 lr ammo. I don't like wasting it on paper or cans usually. It is nice to run down to the store and get a can of cheap stuff and not worry about not ordering. A crosman nitro .22 will not disappoint for your first break barrel. Mine was a Benjamin Trail NP and after a long break in I love that gun. I don't know why so many people diss the .177? For your purposes it would be ideal. Have lots of tins laying around and the kids can use it in their Daisy 880s or Flying Dragon XS 12s. Want a bigger hole? Look what a fire tip gamo can expand to or a crow magnum! Good luck on your decision. Don't over think as you are losing out on trigger time. Get in the game! T
100% agree. When the first gas piston rifles came out, they were all the rage with a lot of claims of being stronger and more reliable/usable than a traditional springer. Time told the truth as folks started seeing failures from leaking pistons and scope damage due to the shock of the piston slamming home.
Our EU brethren are limited to 12fpe (no matter the caliber), without an expensive FAC they have to buy to be legal. .177@10.3 or 10.5g pellets40 yards taking rabbits and vermin have been no problem for them. They take much pride in their accuracy. I love the flat flying, accuracy of the .177 heavy for hunting up to the 35yd area. That's my limit based on my confidence for responsible and ethical hunting. Pellets like the Beeman Crow Magnum is a great expander! The headshot is the key. Accuracy is paramount. The .22 gives you a little more luxury with body shots...but if you miss vitals...it makes no difference. The .177 Heavy &.22s are capable hunters. Good Luck to U.
I'm still in the consideration and research mode. I hope to decide soon. Thanks for your input.
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My take on the gas strut type airgun powerplant.
When they first showed up (30+ years ago?) it was on high end/near custom built airguns from the UK. There were 'bugs' to be worked out but the guns themselves were very well made, powerful, accurate, had limited availability and were expensive. Part of the attraction.
These new strut guns were indeed powerful and the cocking action was 'smooth' but very heavy and the movement of the piston on discharge, was 'smooth' but rather violent. Scope killer? Then Beeman/HW decided to cash in on the wave and made the RX/HW90. I was associated with a '5 Star Beeman Dealer' dedicated airgun shop during this period and was exposed to almost every 'new' trend.
Many years later, makers realized they could adapt the, now inexpensively mass produced, struts made for the auto industry and reduce production/sales cost in their low end, big box airguns. At the same time could advertise the 'new breakthrough in POWER and smoothness'. Big selling points when successfully contrasted with the 'noise and vibration' of the 'old tech' (un-tuned) spring powered airguns in advertising campaigns.
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I actually have the same rifle in both versions: the Hatsan Edge .25 in spring and Vortex piston. The springer was actually a mistake on my part. I never read the whole description and thought I was getting a Vortex in the Harvest Moon camo stock. No such luck, that stock only comes on the spring versions. I also now pay wayyy more attention to the descriptions.
I also don't mind one bit having the spring version, plus I can compare them:
-In power, over the chrony with JSB 25.39gr pellets, there's only a 7fps difference in the 2 rifles. The Vortex spits them at 569 (also the same fps as my Mod 95), the springer spits them at 562fps. I have other pellets to try but those so far are the most accurate for me.
-The Vortex does cock smoother and has a bit smoother shot cycle. I took care of that in the springer, it's been taken down and lubed better, a better tune is planned.
-Both are a bit on the noisy side but part of that is the hollow synthetic stock. Easily fixed in any number of ways without adding more than a couple ounces, I have one way posted in the Turkish Gate.
-They both have the same trigger, which is a Gamo clone and easily tweaked with a .25 cent screw from your local hardware store and makes the 2nd stage smoother. There's also a post in the Turkish Gate about it and other things if someone wants to tweak even more.
Will the spring fail? Probably. Will the gas ram fail? Probably. But for $99.99 when they're on sale, you're getting an inexpensive, hard hitting, accurate, lightweight rifle, that with a couple tweaks gets better and you have a nice shooter to use while you start saving for the better one you still have in the back of your mind (don't we all?)down the road.
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I did it!
I ordered my first break over airgun. I went with an economy model for now and got the Hatsan Edge Vortex in .22
I really wanted a .25 but considered access to ammo and a few other things and went with the .22
It hopefully will be here by next Friday from pyramid air.
This has been fun and I thank everyone who's taken time and helped me.
I'll be posting in the Turkish Gate after it gets here and I can give it a workout.
This is a great forum.
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GET YOUR POPCORN!!
err...I mean pellets.
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Great pick John! Just clean the bore first and check/tighten up the stock screws and enjoy. Hard to beat for the $$$. When you want to improve the trigger check back. It can go from being an acceptable trigger to a VERY good one with the purchase of a couple screws and a bit of your time. LOVE my 2 Edges and my Webley (same rifle, different stock).
Ed
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GET YOUR POPCORN!!
err...I mean pellets.
Lol!
Got a variety. About 1000 rds coming. Building a target frame on my hill to staple targets to.
Family time!
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GET YOUR POPCORN!!
err...I mean pellets.
Lol!
Got a variety. About 1000 rds coming. Building a target frame on my hill to staple targets to.
Family time!
The .22 is a good all around choice and when you are ready for an under lever talk to Mike at Flying Dragons the XS46U sems to please everyone that buys one or if you want to move up the food chain there are plenty of fine rifles available for under $400
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Great pick John! Just clean the bore first and check/tighten up the stock screws and enjoy. Hard to beat for the $$$. When you want to improve the trigger check back. It can go from being an acceptable trigger to a VERY good one with the purchase of a couple screws and a bit of your time. LOVE my 2 Edges and my Webley (same rifle, different stock).
Ed
How long should I wait to start moding? I see a 30 day return policy. Do they usually come with a factory warranty too?
I most definitely will be doing a trigger job and eventually get a better scope.
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[/quote]The .22 is a good all around choice and when you are ready for an under lever talk to Mike at Flying Dragons the XS46U sems to please everyone that buys one or if you want to move up the food chain there are plenty of fine rifles available for under $400
[/quote]
I only saw my 1st under lever yesterday in a video. I assume they have better accuracy possibilities.
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My first springer Edge went bad fast and blew a piston seal. The replacement is a great shooter, very accurate, and shooting Crosman hollow points at or close to 800 fps. Only mod I thought it needed was the wood stock I put on it. Personally don't think the trigger is bad and you get used to it. So you haven't been spoiled by German triggers yet either, it shouldn't be an issue. Just luck of the draw getting a good one and breaking it in.
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My first springer Edge went bad fast and blew a piston seal. The replacement is a great shooter, very accurate, and shooting Crosman hollow points at or close to 800 fps. Only mod I thought it needed was the wood stock I put on it. Personally don't think the trigger is bad and you get used to it. So you haven't been spoiled by German triggers yet either, it shouldn't be an issue. Just luck of the draw getting a good one and breaking it in.
Hmm. I'm used to 2 stage milsurp rifle triggers. So should that be close enough?
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I did it!
I ordered my first break over airgun. I went with an economy model for now and got the Hatsan Edge Vortex in .22
John, congratulation!!!
I got mine today. I cleaned wherever I could with a stock removed, included inside the barrel. There was not much oil on it, like what I have read. On first cocking, I heard some plastic rubbing noise where the barrel is about 45 degree. So I moved it back and forth around that. It surely made noise like opening my old car's hatchback. I went ahead cock it all the way and fired a first shot without a scope. I hit a center of 2x4 stud end laying on the ground about 12 yards away, maybe not dead center but about 0.25. I was not counting that accuracy because I used a cheap Daisy pointed pellet for break-in purpose. Every wally or academy that I shopped, were out of stock for crosman php .22. Anyhow, I paid more attention to noise testing, my iphone(next to me) detected 76 db. It sounded to be louder than that. I noticed some puff smoke came out the barrel, no smelling, just small amount but noticeable. It must be dieseling. The trigger, to me, it's not critical nor rough. Tomorrow, I will do more cleaning and check out the rubbing sound closely.
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PA gives you a 30 return policy, Hatsan gives you a 1 year warranty. Not a clue what the trigger is you mentioned, but I'd say just clean it, double check the stock screws and shoot it just the way it is for awhile. You might find you don't mind the trigger the way it is, but you'll never know until you shoot it for awhile. I'd also recommend not mounting the included scope until you've put a 100 rounds or so through it which would also be a good time to double check the stock screws...which is one of the mantras of the air gunner...."Check your stock screws"...
Enjoy the new rifle and keep us posted :)
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I did it!
I ordered my first break over airgun. I went with an economy model for now and got the Hatsan Edge Vortex in .22
John, congratulation!!!
I got mine today. I cleaned wherever I could with a stock removed, included inside the barrel. There was not much oil on it, like what I have read. On first cocking, I heard some plastic rubbing noise where the barrel is about 45 degree. So I moved it back and forth around that. It surely made noise like opening my old car's hatchback. I went ahead cock it all the way and fired a first shot without a scope. I hit a center of 2x4 stud end laying on the ground about 12 yards away, maybe not dead center but about 0.25. I was not counting that accuracy because I used a cheap Daisy pointed pellet for break-in purpose. Every wally or academy that I shopped, were out of stock for crosman php .22. Anyhow, I paid more attention to noise testing, my iphone(next to me) detected 76 db. It sounded to be louder than that. I noticed some puff smoke came out the barrel, no smelling, just small amount but noticeable. It must be dieseling. The trigger, to me, it's not critical nor rough. Tomorrow, I will do more cleaning and check out the rubbing sound closely.
Thats good to know. How many days did it take? I couldn't get the $99 price the other day. I had to wait since I put my $into a furnace repair.
Keep me updated.
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PA gives you a 30 return policy, Hatsan gives you a 1 year warranty. Not a clue what the trigger is you mentioned, but I'd say just clean it, double check the stock screws and shoot it just the way it is for awhile. You might find you don't mind the trigger the way it is, but you'll never know until you shoot it for awhile. I'd also recommend not mounting the included scope until you've put a 100 rounds or so through it which would also be a good time to double check the stock screws...which is one of the mantras of the air gunner...."Check your stock screws"...
Enjoy the new rifle and keep us posted :)
Should I get some red locktight? Probably void the warranty.
I'll be checking to see if I've got a screw loose. :P
I'm really looking forward to this.
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Blue loctite, not red and it doesn't affect the warranty if you use it. Most times you'll find a little on them anyway when you take them out. And Gump just made me remember what's been nagging the back of my mind. Takes awhile for them to get to the US being they're made in Turkey and Hatsan puts a light coating of oil on the metal parts to protect them. Only takes a clean cloth to wipe them down.
They also really aren't that loud and most of what you hear is piston recoil made a little louder by the hollow stock, which can be lessened by filling it and there's any number of ways you can do it, several are posted in the Turkish Gate.
Here's one way, you don't have to use silicone, just cut the foam bigger so it fits tighter.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103077.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=103077.0)
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Yeah, use removable thread locker!
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... How many days did it take? I couldn't get the $99 price the other day. I had to wait since I put my $into a furnace repair.
About 3 days from OH to TX. I ordered Tue afternoon so it's shipped on Wed and delivered Fri.
My furnace went out Jan last year:-(. I installed it myself and paid a licensed A/C contractor to inspect and approve. It's low end grade Rheem, nothing fancy feature for my low budget. There's no problem so far (knock on wood).
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Keep me updated.
John, I found some problem that you may want to check when you get yours. When I cocked the barrel, there was some metal rubbing on a breech and a receiver at the pivot. I marked the bolt with a yellow highlight(for re-install purpose) and removed. One side-washer was missing. I called PA, the rep told me to call Hatsan. I called Hatsan, there was no rep, only a message to fill-out a form online.
This side-washer is thin and has cup edge to fit a groove. There is not available at local hardware store. PA doesn't have this part. It must be from Hatsan.
It's not good that I got a new rifle and can not shoot because I don't want to damage it for a long term keep. Still waiting to hear from Hatsan. Some people may say it's ok without a washer but I prefer it the right way how it's designed and supposed to be.
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Keep me updated.
John, I found some problem that you may want to check when you get yours. When I cocked the barrel, there was some metal rubbing on a breech and a receiver at the pivot. I marked the bolt with a yellow highlight(for re-install purpose) and removed. One side-washer was missing. I called PA, the rep told me to call Hatsan. I called Hatsan, there was no rep, only a message to fill-out a form online.
This side-washer is thin and has cup edge to fit a groove. There is not available at local hardware store. PA doesn't have this part. It must be from Hatsan.
It's not good that I got a new rifle and can not shoot because I don't want to damage it for a long term keep. Still waiting to hear from Hatsan. Some people may say it's ok without a washer but I prefer it the right way how it's designed and supposed to be.
Will do. That doesn't make me feel all that confident.
I did get a notice saying it was shipped this morning. We should be seeing it Thursday I do believe.
Was Hatsan off today due to the holiday?
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Will do. That doesn't make me feel all that confident.
I did get a notice saying it was shipped this morning. We should be seeing it Thursday I do believe.
Was Hatsan off today due to the holiday?
Sorry about loosing your confident but it's hidden. You won't know until it grinds each other over the time and damage by a warranty ended. I doubt about a holiday, especially for non government place.
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I think I saw something in someone's post about needing 8mm brass washers to replace these washers anyway so the steel washers we ouldnt gald the barrel. I'll need to check my PMs.
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I think I saw something in someone's post about needing 8mm brass washers to replace these washers anyway so the steel washers we ouldnt gald the barrel. I'll need to check my PMs.
Hatsan just emailed me, they will ship the washer. Guess what! it's a steel washer on one side and a plastic washer(the missing one) on the other. Your info maybe very good idea because the plastic one will wear out or break and the steel one is too rough. The exploded view is shown 2 different part number 453 (steel) and 454 (plastic).
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If you want to replace those washers with brass ones, I don't see any reason why you can't and if you take one to your local hardware stores, you should be able to find a match for them. You're also going to want some moly paste to lube it all when you put it back together. Maybe check your local gun shops and see if they carry Air Venturi Moly paste or equivalent, something like 60% moly. The best is from ARH but you'd have to order it. I think it's something like $17 with shipping.
You don't need much, a little goes a long ways. If you do want to order some, here's what to get:
http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm (http://www.airrifleheadquarters.com/catalog/item/251484/42989.htm)
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Thanks for the info.
I wish we had an airgun store here. The bass pro and Academy have some stuff but not enough.
Would you say airgunning is becoming more popular?
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I wish we had an airgun store here. The bass pro and Academy have some stuff but not enough.
John, you can get the paste/grease/lube at Honda car or motorcycle place. It's being used on spline/drive/shaft. You can use some similar stuff in your garage then use moly later if you find it.
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I'm looking at Gump's picture and remembering the Krytox lube is one that's popular and works well if you can find it locally. Amazon also has it.
Air gunning has gained quite a bit in large part to the skyrocketing cost of .22LR ammo. Pellets are way less expensive and for small game, head/heart shots with pellet rifles will take your pest just as easily as a rimfire .22 and quieter. Quieter was a big thing for me as I live inside the town limits and although I have a Savage 64f .22, it's not an option for eliminating the occasional unwanted pest.
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I'll be looking for one of those lubes.
I came back to the airgun by way of hard to find .22lr ammo myself. While I do live in the country on 2.5 acres I still would rather not shoot my centerfire fire arms where I live most of the time. I have a great backstop but still prefer not to.
That backstop will become my airgun range. I'm daydreaming of having multi targets and benches for my boys and myself.
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You probably already have but look around the forum, you'll find all kinds of inexpensive, easy to make targets, holders, benches, roller rifle rests and everything else you could want.
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I think I saw something in someone's post about needing 8mm brass washers to replace these washers anyway so the steel washers we ouldnt gald the barrel. I'll need to check my PMs.
Hatsan just emailed me, they will ship the washer. Guess what! it's a steel washer on one side and a plastic washer(the missing one) on the other. Your info maybe very good idea because the plastic one will wear out or break and the steel one is too rough. The exploded view is shown 2 different part number 453 (steel) and 454 (plastic).
Gump, the small pin that keeps the barrel locking pin retained ("locking tab pin" #529) can be seen from both sides if both side-washers are out. If you don't see it on both sides then your thick plastic washer is still on the breach block...
John, I think the mention of an 8mm brass washer is Crosman related, not Hatsan. Hatsan's are built better in at least that regard ;)
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I couldnt find the post I thought I read it in.
Thanks.
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I couldnt find the post I thought I read it in.
Thanks.
Well John, you are buying a Hatsan and reading threads on rebuilding everything - I think that is very smart as the good ideas are not limited to a particular brand! If you're worried about getting a good one or being able to work on it, I suspect you have nothing to worry about, and that you will do just fine :D
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Thanks
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I broke down my Striker 1000s in .25 to put a new piston seal, lube it with moly and heavy tar. Had a lot of twang and super loud in my ear. Filled the stock with silicone and its still loud. But any way. I don't think I ever want to tear down a Hatsan springer again. Nightmare! Lots of preload on the spring. I made a compressor but the end cap is such an odd ball shape it was almost impossible to keep the head of the compressor on it. Unless there is some sort of attachment to use that I don't know about? Any other gun I did was waaay easier! Good luck with that mess. Lots of swearing, sweating, and cut up knuckles/fingers!
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Oops
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You probably already have but look around the forum, you'll find all kinds of inexpensive, easy to make targets, holders, benches, roller rifle rests and everything else you could want.
Actually I haven't yet. But looks like I'll be doing so soon.
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Gump, the small pin that keeps the barrel locking pin retained ("locking tab pin" #529) can be seen from both sides if both side-washers are out. If you don't see it on both sides then your thick plastic washer is still on the breach block...
John, I think the mention of an 8mm brass washer is Crosman related, not Hatsan. Hatsan's are built better in at least that regard ;)
Next time when I receive the washer to put it on, I'll check out the 529 pin how it's located to see those washers. Hatsan's design may not be that bad if it's properly build per design specs. It's quality control problem. It could be just my (bad) luck. I prefer a hard blue steel washer like a spring washer between a motor armature and bushing or bearing.
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I broke down my Striker 1000s in .25 to put a new piston seal, lube it with moly and heavy tar. Had a lot of twang and super loud in my ear. Filled the stock with silicone and its still loud. But any way. I don't think I ever want to tear down a Hatsan springer again. Nightmare! Lots of preload on the spring. I made a compressor but the end cap is such an odd ball shape it was almost impossible to keep the head of the compressor on it. Unless there is some sort of attachment to use that I don't know about? Any other gun I did was waaay easier! Good luck with that mess. Lots of swearing, sweating, and cut up knuckles/fingers!
I took wood stick (closest thing I found on Lowe's sight was a "Wood Pine Fence Picket") and chopped off a slice, then stuck it in a vise and cut away at it with a HFS hobby mill, but I would imagine any 1-by could be carved up with a jig saw, coping saw, etc. until it fits well enough to keep from sliding.
Basically stole the idea just doing searches for spring compressors to see what others had come up with. Camera connection is on the fritz, will post if I figure out how...
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Just used a small block of 1/2 inch plywood maybe 1 inch wide by 3 long....slid in between the compressor head and the cap. No sliding issues and everything slid right back in the receiver.
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Gump, the NP2 piston is indeed $8.00, per Crosman CS, but it only fits the NP2. From others that have ordered one, I think the NP, or XL piston is around $40.00 from Crosman.
Just checked prices. The NP2 and the NPXL pistons are $26 each and then a $4.00 shipping charge.
So $30 shipped. Order 5? Still $4 shipping for all 5.
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Gump, the NP2 piston is indeed $8.00, per Crosman CS, but it only fits the NP2. From others that have ordered one, I think the NP, or XL piston is around $40.00 from Crosman.
Just checked prices. The NP2 and the NPXL pistons are $26 each and then a $4.00 shipping charge.
So $30 shipped. Order 5? Still $4 shipping for all 5.
I will note that down, not $8 (maybe it's $8 plus $22 shipping). Thank you for an update.
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I had a Crosman Employee in Chat today.
After the story about part numbers we talked about?
;)
I gave her the numbers and She gave me the prices.
8)
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Don't know Jeff... long distance relationships don't usually work out. Just saying... ;)
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That does look strange now that you point that out!
:o
You have a Bus somewhere don't you?
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Update - I received the washer from Hatsan last night. It's so much better when cocking. Now I can shoot a group test.
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You probably already have but look around the forum, you'll find all kinds of inexpensive, easy to make targets, holders, benches, roller rifle rests and everything else you could want.
Actually I haven't yet. But looks like I'll be doing so soon.
Many newbies don't research the forums and depend on one thread for all their information. These same questions have been asked many, many times. Over many years! There is a wealth of info on the GTA, other forums and other sources on the www! Google, or your favorite engine, is your friend!
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True. But
It was his post that provoked me to research it.
Did I mean I hadn't been searching the other threads? Nah, just that idea.
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John, you out shooting that gun yet?
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Yes sir. Just came in.
I'm having a blast. Trying to get it settled in. I'd say I've put about 50 pellets through it.
I knocked the tin of pellets off in the grass, so I can't count what's missing.
After this old tin is gone I'll break out the stuff I ordered and try to get it on paper.
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I broke down my Striker 1000s in .25 to put a new piston seal, lube it with moly and heavy tar. Had a lot of twang and super loud in my ear. Filled the stock with silicone and its still loud. But any way. I don't think I ever want to tear down a Hatsan springer again. Nightmare! Lots of preload on the spring. I made a compressor but the end cap is such an odd ball shape it was almost impossible to keep the head of the compressor on it. Unless there is some sort of attachment to use that I don't know about? Any other gun I did was waaay easier! Good luck with that mess. Lots of swearing, sweating, and cut up knuckles/fingers!
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Thanks for the pic Steve. If I decide to go down that road again I'll have to make one of those up!
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Ive been shooting my Hatsan Vortex Edge .22 for the last week and a half. I'm very impressed. I felt it was shot in and was consistent so I put the scope on that came with it. My boys love shooting this about as much as I love seeing them shoot it.
When I was seeing the scope shooting left 5" and down 2" consistently I got my 9 yr old to shoot it as I started zeroing in the scope. He did exactly as I told him. He started asking about adjusting his aim to move the point of impact. I was impressed that he was understanding Kentucky windage but we resisted the urge and kept up the task at hand. I am very surprised at the recoil. Everyone told me about it but I just didn't understand until I experienced it. You really DO have to keep watch of all the screws!!!
So, in practice I did a few experiments. We have shot through a 3/4 inch pc of particle board with oak veneer. We robbed a beef rib bone from the dogs and at my amazement watched it punch holes all the way through with large blow outs on the back.
This gun is more accurate than I am. We are able to touch pellet holes on a regular basis. I'm not steady enough in my set up yet to stack pellets but I feel it can be done.
I really do thank everyone for all of the information and help. My boys and I are having a blast.
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That sounds like y'all are having a great time.
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That sounds like y'all are having a great time.
Yes sir. That we are.
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Was kinda hoping the boys would realize it's more fun to actually shoot a real rifle than the ones in a video game. Glad to see everyone is enjoying the new rifle and maybe one of those paint roller rifle rests I've seen posted and been thinking of building myself will help with the pellet stacking.
Happy shooting :)
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Was kinda hoping the boys would realize it's more fun to actually shoot a real rifle than the ones in a video game. Glad to see everyone is enjoying the new rifle and maybe one of those paint roller rifle rests I've seen posted and been thinking of building myself will help with the pellet stacking.
Happy shooting :)
Its the youngest showing the most interest so far then it's the oldest. My middle boy just isn't into guns very much.
Hopefully the oldest two will want some dad time too. :P
I have been thinking about that paint roller a lot. I made an impromptu gun rest while sighting in the scope and that was in my head nagging away.
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I know y'all are a bit of a drive from Sherman, TX, but Academy had 2-3 Stoeger X-3 youth rifles marked down to $32.97. I think they were marked down to 49.00 when I bought one a month ago felt like I got an awesome deal. Grandkids love it and so do I. Just fun to shoot.
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I know y'all are a bit of a drive from Sherman, TX, but Academy had 2-3 Stoeger X-3 youth rifles marked down to $32.97. I think they were marked down to 49.00 when I bought one a month ago felt like I got an awesome deal. Grandkids love it and so do I. Just fun to shoot.
Wow!!
I'll need to run and look at the two Academy stores in Tulsa.
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I also want to thanks to Yaal. I have been busy replacing timing belt and AC compressor on my car (still in work). Everyday a little here and there, I grab my Edge and shoot at my quiet target box. I put the scope on but my eye sight is poor, unable to stay focus through it. I put a blue Loctite on all screws so there is no problem. This rifle is very accurate for my most shooting a 13-15yd target.
I want to share the test result and my homemade quiet 12"x12" box. The circle is about 1" dia. and about 14 yards away. The rifle is on my open palm and my arm is rest on top of a chair, no rest bag. I am very satisfied.
The box is made from a fence picket, Simpson plates, nails, screws and black tar. I have some scrap plywood on the back instead of 2 pickets. There are 12 nails on Simpson plate. They are spacing for 12 poker cards or standard 8.5x11 paper. There is a tar layer between metal plate and back wall for less noise when a pellet hits. I use a wooden screw to hold a metal plate so they are not bow and push the soft tar over the time. I can use a long screw and not using nail but I like proper spacing nails. I add more tar on top and blow torch. The tar is some left over from fixing my driveway but you can use some fancy duct seal compound.
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Gump, nice to see you're liking the rifle and it doesn't say <trial> in your signature any more.
Got my .177 Edge right after you and tinkered (I get bored when the weather is bad and I can't shoot) and it now looks like this:
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Gump, nice to see you're liking the rifle and it doesn't say <trial> in your signature any more.
Got my .177 Edge right after you and tinkered (I get bored when the weather is bad and I can't shoot) and it now looks like this:
Thanks, I love it. Right after last post, I made another set of (12) 1" circle target. I shot 15 pellets for inside 12, 2 on circle edge and 1 a little outside circle. It's my good day :-)
Very nice paint job, is it metallic blue? or just shining reflex?
Did you shave off front sight?
I thought that just me having the scope far back. Your is even reverted ring. I just slide scope all the way back and keep a stopper on last back 2 screw position. It's ok for me as now until I get a new scope. I prefer to have it high and for option to use the sight without removing a scope.
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Gump, nice to see you're liking the rifle and it doesn't say <trial> in your signature any more.
Got my .177 Edge right after you and tinkered (I get bored when the weather is bad and I can't shoot) and it now looks like this:
Thanks, I love it. Right after last post, I made another set of (12) 1" circle target. I shot 15 pellets for inside 12, 2 on circle edge and 1 a little outside circle. It's my good day :-)
Very nice paint job, is it metallic blue? or just shining reflex?
Did you shave off front sight?
I thought that just me having the scope far back. Your is even reverted ring. I just slide scope all the way back and keep a stopper on last back 2 screw position. It's ok for me as now until I get a new scope. I prefer to have it high and for option to use the sight without removing a scope.
I need to move my scope like scp's.
I have mine like yours gump.
I sure do like it. I came home today with a wad of targets for me and 3 packs of reactive zombie targets for the boys. The fella at the shooting supply store was talking airguns with me and threw 2 packs of zombies in for the boys. Said he will check with his suppliers to see about some higher quality pellets to keep in stock.
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I have mine like yours gump.
I sure do like it. I came home today with a wad of targets for me and 3 packs of reactive zombie targets for the boys. The fella at the shooting supply store was talking airguns with me and threw 2 packs of zombies in for the boys. Said he will check with his suppliers to see about some higher quality pellets to keep in stock.
John, I saw some youtube mentioned using only one screw so you can move back 1/4 in. I tried that there is no different, I can move my eye closer for that 1/4 gap and more.
BTW, I used up 250 cheap Daisy pellets for break-in. Now I use Crosman php 14.3gr from amazon same price $6.47 as wally (if you can find them in stock). I ordered 1 pack with other stuff for free shipping. They are well grouping for my Edge so I ordered 5 packs more. I am not a high quality pellet person just plain o-cheap :-)
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Gump, I got 3 tins of H&N Barackuda hunter extreme 19.09 grn and 1 tin of predator polymag 16grn when I ordered and had a tin of daisy max speed of unknown grn from along time ago. I used the Daisy's to break in.
I will be trying others as I can. I think the barakuda work good so far. If we aren't running to a ballgame or its not blowing 25 mph I've been coming home to shoot a dozen pellets or so in the afternoons.
Need to make my shooting bench and target holders.
I'm pumped.
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Ive seen people make reactive tags by getting cardboard and putting a white trash bag over it and stretched tight. Then they spray paint flat black over it and let it dry. They place orange stickers for targets. I'm going to be trying this.
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To get your scope back where it should be so you don't get a sore neck get one of these...........
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount)
or these..........
http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings (http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings)
Ed
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To get your scope back where it should be so you don't get a sore neck get one of these...........
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount)
or these..........
http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings (http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings)
Ed
Ed, that's excellent. So what's better, one pc or two?
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To get your scope back where it should be so you don't get a sore neck get one of these...........
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount)
or these..........
http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings (http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings)
Ed
Thanks. I may need it whenever I get new scope (add those links to my note). With my current setup(max back limit), I can see full view but blurry on this combo scope. My eye is slow focusing by the time ready to pull, I see double target. I found the trick is set at normal position to see full view with some dark circle shade then back out a little to see full black circle ring, aim, breath and fire. This way I don't see a double target and reset eye position. Any one have any trick or suggestion?
That's why I like to use the sight rather than this scope. I will continue to use it for now, or until my neck is sore as Ed says.
Gump, I got 3 tins of H&N Barackuda hunter extreme 19.09 grn and 1 tin of predator polymag 16grn when I ordered and had a tin of daisy max speed of unknown grn from along time ago. I used the Daisy's to break in.
I will be trying others as I can. I think the barakuda work good so far. If we aren't running to a ballgame or its not blowing 25 mph I've been coming home to shoot a dozen pellets or so in the afternoons.
Need to make my shooting bench and target holders.
I'm pumped.
I'm not hurry to try other pellet yet. I am thinking about making a table top shooting holder/rest/tool for tuning. Hummm, a shooting bench! if I get to move around that's an idea. Also I will drill 2 holes on my target box and use a rope for handle or hanging.
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Gump, I think a little bench will make a world of difference. Plus a few movable pvc pipe target stands. Being I have 2.5 acres in the country I am thinking of using my hillside as my back stop and be able to have a 17 yard, a 25 yard and a 50 yard target. Might even go with a 75 yard. Then when we get the boys outfitted we can run a little competition on the different yardages. Whats good is we can use the same holders to put archery targets in.
I am so pleased!
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Gump, I think a little bench will make a world of difference. Plus a few movable pvc pipe target stands. Being I have 2.5 acres in the country I am thinking of using my hillside as my back stop and be able to have a 17 yard, a 25 yard and a 50 yard target. Might even go with a 75 yard. Then when we get the boys outfitted we can run a little competition on the different yardages. Whats good is we can use the same holders to put archery targets in.
I am so pleased!
I'm jealous 2.5 acres. I don't have to move around at all in a tiny backyard and worry about noise to the neighbor. I have two spots to shoot, from my patio table about 13 yd and other end to the fence for 15 yd. I just pull up the chair and sit backward :-(
If I have that space, I might built a shooting station with cover instead LOL
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Gump, nice to see you're liking the rifle and it doesn't say <trial> in your signature any more.
Got my .177 Edge right after you and tinkered (I get bored when the weather is bad and I can't shoot) and it now looks like this:
Thanks, I love it. Right after last post, I made another set of (12) 1" circle target. I shot 15 pellets for inside 12, 2 on circle edge and 1 a little outside circle. It's my good day :-)
Very nice paint job, is it metallic blue? or just shining reflex?
Did you shave off front sight?
I thought that just me having the scope far back. Your is even reverted ring. I just slide scope all the way back and keep a stopper on last back 2 screw position. It's ok for me as now until I get a new scope. I prefer to have it high and for option to use the sight without removing a scope.
The paint is metal flake blue with a couple coats of wet look clear and yep, I shaved the front fiber optics off as the intent was a scope only target rifle plus it gives it a cleaner look. There's a post in the Turkish Gate with more pics and everything I did to the rifle.
As far as your scope, you can try using the very front screw hole and stop plate and put the back of the front ring against it. Here's how all my Hatsans and my Webley are...if you look just behind the front ring, you'll see the factory scope stop plate and with those rings reversed I get even more room to slide the scope back how I want it.
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I know y'all are a bit of a drive from Sherman, TX, but Academy had 2-3 Stoeger X-3 youth rifles marked down to $32.97. I think they were marked down to 49.00 when I bought one a month ago felt like I got an awesome deal. Grandkids love it and so do I. Just fun to shoot.
I love that rifle. I feel like you should have bought those X3's. I wouldn't have thought twice about it for just $32. They really are sweet, sweet rifles.
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To get your scope back where it should be so you don't get a sore neck get one of these...........
http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount (http://www.amazon.com/UTG-Offset-Airgun-Mount-Bi-direction/dp/B002TUSJRK/ref=sr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885274&sr=1-4&keywords=utg+offset+mount)
or these..........
http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings (http://www.amazon.com/Dovetail-Extension-Ring-Set-2/dp/B00BGKNIDY/ref=sr_1_38?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1456885776&sr=1-38&keywords=hawke+scope+rings)
Ed
Ed, that's excellent. So what's better, one pc or two?
Either one work really well.
The one piece is less $$$ and you can leave the scope stop in the rear, factory position. I think you can find one on ebay for $15 shipped.
After seeing the Hawke offset rings that Steve has I thought they looked "cooler" so I got a set with my new Hawke scope. Steve's are 1" offset, mine are 2" offset either one will work fine. When using them you move the stop to the front set of holes, put the front ring in front of the stop then the offset on snugged up to the rear of the stop.
Whichever way you go make sure to degrease (de-oil?) the stop screws and apply locktite to them.
Yer welcome! ;)
Ed
I noticed Steve doesn't have the rear offset ring "snugged" up to the stop. That's because his is offset 1", mine is 2".
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Thanks Ed.
I think I'll go with a 2 pc but will still need to think about one or two inch offsets.
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The paint is metal flake blue with a couple coats of wet look clear and yep, I shaved the front fiber optics off as the intent was a scope only target rifle plus it gives it a cleaner look.
Look out! so shiny bright, you might get a ticket for violation of harassing the wildlife LOL
To me, "a cleaner look" and cocking at ease, no front sight in the way.
I just found a rubber pad 1.75"x5.5" in Hatsan box. It's hidden at one end of the box and a styrofoam. Does anyone know what it is?
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Ive seen people make reactive tags by getting cardboard and putting a white trash bag over it and stretched tight. Then they spray paint flat black over it and let it dry. They place orange stickers for targets. I'm going to be trying this.
I get extra life out of shoot n see targets by painting over the shots with some cheap black spray paint. Works better than the darn patch dots they include , because it doesn't blow off when hit like the dots sometimes do.
P.S. the waxy backing on the shoot n see can also be painted black and work well also ;) .... It must be the Norwegian in me LOL
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Thanks Ed.
I think I'll go with a 2 pc but will still need to think about one or two inch offsets.
The eyepiece on my scope ends up in the same place (looks like) as Steve's 'cause I used both front holes for the stop and brought the rear 2" offset ring all the way up to the stop. My way is MUCH better! LOL, Sorry Steve! ;) ;D
Ed
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The paint is metal flake blue with a couple coats of wet look clear and yep, I shaved the front fiber optics off as the intent was a scope only target rifle plus it gives it a cleaner look.
Look out! so shiny bright, you might get a ticket for violation of harassing the wildlife LOL
To me, "a cleaner look" and cocking at ease, no front sight in the way.
I just found a rubber pad 1.75"x5.5" in Hatsan box. It's hidden at one end of the box and a styrofoam. Does anyone know what it is?
Hey Gump, I've got one of those as well. Let me know if you want another one. ;)
Seriously, that piece was put somewhere in the packaging to protect something, have no idea what. ???
Ed
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Probably to keep the muzzle from busting out the end of the box
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Seriously, that piece was put somewhere in the packaging to protect something, have no idea what. ???
Ed
That's what I thought at first. I think it's for protecting a butt plate when you store your rifle standing in a cabinet or on a stand.
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Thanks Ed.
I think I'll go with a 2 pc but will still need to think about one or two inch offsets.
The eyepiece on my scope ends up in the same place (looks like) as Steve's 'cause I used both front holes for the stop and brought the rear 2" offset ring all the way up to the stop. My way is MUCH better! LOL, Sorry Steve! ;) ;D
Ed
No you're not, lolol. As long as it works for you that's all that matters....for me, mine work and I still have some wiggle room if I want to move things.
As far as that blue paint....I saw it on line and the picture of it didn't look like metal flake at all...and then I sprayed the first coat...definitely makes the stock stand out with the muzzle break and scope rings painted to match. Maybe I'll do the next one candy apple red....hmmmm
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I just want to update on my Edge. It's defective with bad grooves for scope mounting. These grooves are not symmetry to the center. If the scope is mounted, it's tilted to the right. It's been closed to 30 days satisfaction. I shouldn't have delay testing with a scope as many suggestions. Anyway, I sent back for exchange with PA. The waiting period can be up to 2 weeks from PA received date 03/14/16. I have to wait as hard as I can :-(
I don't know if PA will send a new one or just replace with new receiver. I try not to talk bad about it but it got worse than I thought. Don't get me wrong, I like the accuracy (with sight of course).
This Edge may be back on the market as refurbished, look out!
I wonder about OP having trouble adjusting scope, never get it to work, not knowing maybe bad grooves same as mine.
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I own 4 myself and with the other forum members that bought them during the different sales, you're the only one I've seen with dovetails that screwed up.
PA will probably just send you a new rifle, then send yours back to Hatsan to deal with.
Keep us posted on how things turn out.
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I own 4 myself and with the other forum members that bought them during the different sales..
Speaking of sales, I had to pass last 3day Fieldsupply's refurbished sales because of very low confidence with Hatsan.
you're the only one I've seen with dovetails that screwed up.
I know!!! if I don't post those pictures, everybody would think I'm smoking or typical blaming on scope excuse. It is very odd.
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Gump.
I'm sorry to hear about the bad dove tails. Mine seem to be ok.
I'm very pleased with my rifle, the scope is what everyone says it is so I'll be getting a better one. Its always just a little blurry no matter what I do to it. I'm taking mine camping with my 9 yr old tomorrow. I think we will have some fun.
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Gump.
I'm sorry to hear about the bad dove tails. Mine seem to be ok.
I'm very pleased with my rifle, the scope is what everyone says it is so I'll be getting a better one. Its always just a little blurry no matter what I do to it. I'm taking mine camping with my 9 yr old tomorrow. I think we will have some fun.
It's good that your dove tails are checked. I wonder if it is because of sale price item. I remember that you bought after the sale ended. Steve bought it normal price because .177 was not on sale. Lucky me, the defective sale ::)
"little blurry" I thought my eye is a problem ;-) Did you try adjusting object lens? (I don't know what range Hatsan is setting) It helps somewhat usable until you get a replacement. It's good enough for my common range 15-20yds for now.
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I own 4 myself and with the other forum members that bought them during the different sales..
Speaking of sales, I had to pass last 3day Fieldsupply's refurbished sales because of very low confidence with Hatsan.
you're the only one I've seen with dovetails that screwed up.
I know!!! if I don't post those pictures, everybody would think I'm smoking or typical blaming on scope excuse. It is very odd.
Gump, you are right, it IS a rare manufacturing error (I posted earlier but it got eaten by the bit bucket, so I reckon some of this will be a repeat).
Many makes/models have their Achilles heel. For Hatsan, its changes in their manufacturing process tend to have cleanup oversights, sometimes lasting a very long time. Basically the design is solid, the components are not particularly fragile (except perhaps some parts of the composite stocks), and they seem to be stand-up on warranty issues.
I'm going to compare service/warranty with the only ones I know about (three). First Hatsan, mine had an issue and they were willing to have me send it to them at my expense for repairs but didn't acknowledge it had an issue so I declined. The majority of others who sent theirs in for repairs seemed to be happy with their services. Second Daisy --- MANY issues, weird one like your barrel rails, my barrel came out ... they replaced the rifle, subsequently even sent me parts to rebuild the replacement and I had offered to pay for them! Third Remington (Express), they didn't have what I requested but after some coaxing they sent me a piston seal and several extras. It was a hassle dealing with them and I had to write two letters, but it is also my understanding they are new to this gambit and will be passing the baton - so I don't hold it against them. Fourth, RWS/Umarex, they lie, cheat, and steel from their customers REGULARLY as an enforced policy. I'm not making that up, just read the BBB complaints. RWS, well, Diana, I let them know and they didn't bother to respond ... personally I'll just say that anyone buying anything "RWS" better be willing and able to work on it themselves and be planning on it or quite frankly if not I would think they have more loose screws than RWS rifles do.
Oh, Achilles heels, Hatsan, as I said, debris in the chamber takes out your seal. Daisy - attention to detail and debris, had a valve washer reversed, needed better gluing of the barrel to the receiver (wish I just put it back), fuzz on the pump o-ring. Remington, not enough packing in the box (bent barrel, and mine had the barrel pivot work loose - hence the seal, might as well tear into it). RWS has a fork bracket that if loosens up totals the gun, front sight is carp and customer service is criminal at best.
I wouldn't pass on the Hatsan's if you buy from a reputable dealer willing to accept returns for 30 days, and if you are also handy in case the seal goes after that 30 days.
Just my $.02 and limited experiences.
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Gump.
I'm sorry to hear about the bad dove tails. Mine seem to be ok.
I'm very pleased with my rifle, the scope is what everyone says it is so I'll be getting a better one. Its always just a little blurry no matter what I do to it. I'm taking mine camping with my 9 yr old tomorrow. I think we will have some fun.
It's good that your dove tails are checked. I wonder if it is because of sale price item. I remember that you bought after the sale ended. Steve bought it normal price because .177 was not on sale. Lucky me, the defective sale ::)
"little blurry" I thought my eye is a problem ;-) Did you try adjusting object lens? (I don't know what range Hatsan is setting) It helps somewhat usable until you get a replacement. It's good enough for my common range 15-20yds for now.
Really sorry you got a bad one, hope the next one is perfect. ;) I'm sure it has nothing to do with being on sale or not. All 3 of mine were on sale (only way I buy) and no problems. Good luck!
Ed
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For Hatsan, its changes in their manufacturing process tend to have cleanup oversights, sometimes lasting a very long time...
Perhaps, I should put "Hatsan Edge Vortex .22 Mfg Trial Edition" on my signature.
debris in the chamber takes out your seal...
Mine had some of those, that's minor but shouldn't be there nor sharp/rough metal edges & surfaces.
I already dealt with Hatsan for missing right plastic breech washer. Let's see PA reputation turns out. I get to test their services right from start.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I will keep update.
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Really sorry you got a bad one, hope the next one is perfect. ;) I'm sure it has nothing to do with being on sale or not. All 3 of mine were on sale (only way I buy) and no problems. Good luck!
Ed
Thanks. I certainly hope for a new good one from PA.
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You know, I have not seen any complaints on Crosman service and support. Nor daisy.
I take that back. I saw one for Crosman, about 5 years ago. Pretty good record if you ask me.
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Update:
I got a Hatsan Edge exchange from PA but it's poor grouping and same dovetail defective. Two weeks later, I received another. This third one is good. The accuracy is not as good as the first one. It may gets better over the time shooting. It makes a pinging sound every shot. I will check it again this weekend, it maybe a scope cause pinging.
- Hatsan has some bad batch, those EDGE defectives have first 4 digits serial 0515. Hatsan support sent me a missing plastic washer on the first rifle, no problem.
- Thumb's up for PA, especially a 30-day policy. They take care things timely manner. The third rifle receipt has "Airgun Tech Supervisor review" on the list.
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Update:
I got a Hatsan Edge exchange from PA but it's poor grouping and same dovetail defective. Two weeks later, I received another. This third one is good. The accuracy is not as good as the first one. It may gets better over the time shooting. It makes a pinging sound every shot. I will check it again this weekend, it maybe a scope cause pinging.
- Hatsan has some bad batch, those EDGE defectives have first 4 digits serial 0515. Hatsan support sent me a missing plastic washer on the first rifle, no problem.
- Thumb's up for PA, especially a 30-day policy. They take care things timely manner. The third rifle receipt has "Airgun Tech Supervisor review" on the list.
Glad your 3rd one appears to be ok. Hope it gets more accurate as it breaks in. After seeing those 1st four digits of that bad batch I had to check mine, both purchased from PA. My .25 caliber is 0715. My .22 caliber is...............0515!!! Funny thing is I tried two different dovetail to picatinny adapters from Amazon and sent them back because they wouldn't sit perfectly level--they canted slightly to, yep, you guessed it, the right. The good part is I just gave up on that idea and used the Hawke rings with the 2" extension with the Hawke 4-12X50 AO IR scope and she mounted just fine and shoots great, got it sighted in very quickly. I have no doubt now that the grooves on mine are off but you can't tell anything is wrong looking at the way the scope sits from any angle so I'm not worried about it. I eyeballed the way the rings set before putting the scope on and they looked level to me, nothing like that photo you posted but the adapters I tried DID obviously cant to the right. Go figger..... Anyhoo, the way the scope looks on the rifle is perfect and the rifle is a tack driver so no worries for me fortunately. I don't believe mine (the grooves) are nearly as bad as yours were because you can't tell just looking at 'em.
Happy shooting!
Ed
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RE : scope rail groves , on my 25 super tact , i had to play with it a bit , by sliding forward and or backwards , to find the best alignment , one of these days ill take it to my local machinist and see if he has a fix.
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both purchased from PA. My .25 caliber is 0715. My .22 caliber is...............0515!!!
BTW, the third one is 0715. The second one was not off as much the first one. If it was accurate, I would have shim or add a spacer between a ring block and upper side of a little clamp block. Just a thought, if you feel like doing so. You have a lot experience, this little tilting is nothing. I'm noobie, it's a lot harder to hit a target and will not enjoy, only frustrate. The first one was really bad tilt, even by a quick glance at it.
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RE : scope rail groves , on my 25 super tact , i had to play with it a bit , by sliding forward and or backwards , to find the best alignment , one of these days ill take it to my local machinist and see if he has a fix.
WoW, that will drive me nuts. This Hatsan Edge is limited ring location which is all the way back or picatinny adapter.
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Wow. I'll have to look my serial number over.
I hate that you've had so much trouble.
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After reading, I had to check my .22 and mine starts with 0815 but mine also came from AGD.
Gump, there's a couple ways to work around Hatsan's too far forward scope mounting. One is that UTG offset mount, I actually have a couple I got for some Centerpoint scopes I got cheap. Another is the style rings Ed aka OldCorps and I both have which are the Hawke Reach Forward Match mounts. His are 2 inch, mine are the 1 inch. They're a little pricey at $27.99 but I have them on all my rifles, they work great and I haven't had a scope slide in any of them.
You can also try moving your scope stop plate to the very front holes and putting the back back side of your front scope ring against it...it will let you slide your scope farther back.
Here's what the set up looks like on my Edge .177. If you look right behind the front ring, you'll see my stop plate:
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After reading, I had to check my .22 and mine starts with 0815 but mine also came from AGD.
Gump, there's a couple ways to work around Hatsan's too far forward scope mounting. One is that UTG offset mount, I actually have a couple I got for some Centerpoint scopes I got cheap. Another is the style rings Ed aka OldCorps and I both have which are the Hawke Reach Forward Match mounts. His are 2 inch, mine are the 1 inch. They're a little pricey at $27.99 but I have them on all my rifles, they work great and I haven't had a scope slide in any of them.
You can also try moving your scope stop plate to the very front holes and putting the back back side of your front scope ring against it...it will let you slide your scope farther back.
Here's what the set up looks like on my Edge .177. If you look right behind the front ring, you'll see my stop plate:
Gotcha! That will be a next step if I ever past a first. For now, I am ok with the combo scope because my range is between 13 to 22 yards. It is clear enough with a lens adjustment, enable to read a normal letter font size 12 on the target. Seeing that picture makes me drooling, again. That's remind me at least I swap the trigger screw like yours(ref: M3x8-.50 hex socket screw, all the way in then back out 1 1/4 turn *** stock butt bump safety test ***).
Wow. I'll have to look my serial number over.
I hate that you've had so much trouble.
Just in case anyone wondering, those numbers are manufacture date (ref: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=24931.msg226171#msg226171 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=24931.msg226171#msg226171)).
So much trouble, it is indeed. The majority waste of time is preping (cleaning/smoothing/lubing). I think as gaining handyman experience. During exchanging process, I made a shooting rest with a couple revisions already with feature for compressor and different target height.
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Sorry for chuckling over your drooling but that scope was free...I got some Walmart gift cards for christmas, saw that Hawke Vantage 4-12x40 AO scope on Walmart's website and figured why not. There's any number of under $100 scopes that will work great for the distances you're shooting if or when you decide you want a better one, Hawke is just my own personal favorite.
The blue scope rings are only blue because I painted them to match the stock and added a little bling with stainless base and ring screws. They're normally the standard matte black finish.
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Sorry for chuckling over your drooling but that scope was free...I got some Walmart gift cards for christmas, saw that Hawke Vantage 4-12x40 AO scope on Walmart's website and figured why not. There's any number of under $100 scopes that will work great for the distances you're shooting if or when you decide you want a better one, Hawke is just my own personal favorite.
The blue scope rings are only blue because I painted them to match the stock and added a little bling with stainless base and ring screws. They're normally the standard matte black finish.
okay, I clean myself up now. You must have been nice and got good christmas gift card. Today, I used my christmas home repot $35 gift card :-[ on gardening stuff and a trigger screw. The trigger pull is short, it's easier than before. Somehow, it conflicts with my norm, gradually pull. It is noticeable two stage vs. mfg screw, feel like single stage. I tried with instance pull seems to work better for me. I will consider a second screw mod on forward side after a warranty expired and metallic blue paint ;D.
About the Hawke scope, it seems like a lot of people favorite. Hawke Vantage 4-12x40 AO is currently $117, 3-9x40 AO $100 and 3-9x40 $90. How important is AO? Is refurbished scope any good?
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Refurbished scopes I honestly don't know about, I bought all mine new. The AO feature for air rifle shooting is very handy as it lets you adjust for different distances when shooting and the distances are marked on that front AO bell.
My Hawkes all focus from a little under 10 yards to infinity. I normally shoot at 30 yards or less and with the magnification on 6 and the AO at the 30 yard set, I can read the wording on my targets. They also have a 2-7x32 AO version you might take a look at which is right about $90. I have 2 and they work great for my 30 yards or less.
I've also seen quite a few posts from members that said they got a real nice Centerpoint scope at Walmart for something like $70 and they were having real good luck with them, I just don't remember the size they said they got. Maybe this one but don't quote me on it:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/CENTERPOINT-4-16x40mm-w-ILLUMINATED-TAG-RETICLE/45848946 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/CENTERPOINT-4-16x40mm-w-ILLUMINATED-TAG-RETICLE/45848946)
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OK... I made it the top of page 4 and need to do some research but don't want to loose this awesome thread. Going to use my classic search phrase to make it easy to find later.
Posting for future reference.
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... they were having real good luck with them...
I feel like a deer looking at a headlight. Is that a hint? as you know how my luck went so far LOL. It is what I was looking for, the combo is ok for me right now. I think I should save up for the Hawke 4-12x40 AO (there may be on sale later). or what ya think about this Bushnell 4-12x40 AO for $95? thank you for your suggestion.
http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Multi-X-Adjustable-Objective-Riflescope/dp/B00IYHG1MM/ref=dp_ob_title_sports (http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Multi-X-Adjustable-Objective-Riflescope/dp/B00IYHG1MM/ref=dp_ob_title_sports)
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Gump-I personally wouldn't get that Centerpoint although I'm very happy with the four I own--two 3-9X40 AO and two 4-16X40AO IR. The reason? They changed 'em to "TAG" reticle instead of mil-dots for some dumb reason. ??? This Hammers scope appears to be the exact same scope as Centerpoint offered previously. http://smile.amazon.com/Hammers-Illuminated-Varmint-Riflescope-4-16X40AO/dp/B00CEJCDXW/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1460083063&sr=1-1&keywords=Hammers+4-16X40+scope (http://smile.amazon.com/Hammers-Illuminated-Varmint-Riflescope-4-16X40AO/dp/B00CEJCDXW/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1460083063&sr=1-1&keywords=Hammers+4-16X40+scope)
Very good dependable scope at a fair price. Good luck with your decision.
Ed
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I really was guessing on the Centerpoint and all I could remember was some posts saying guys got them at Walmart around $70, they were pretty good scopes and they seemed to hold up well on air guns.
Ed's suggestion is a very good one (and I dislike when I hafta agree with him, although I don't on those 2 inch mounts...lol) as you'll get some extra magnification with the 4-16, you'll get a mil dot scope, you'll save some money, plus it comes with the scope rings which Hawke scopes don't. If you buy a Hawke scope, you'll have to buy the rings or 1 piece base mount for it separately.
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Thank you all for your input.
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
I hear ya LOL. He teases me a little higher with a carrot(Hawke 4-12x40 AO). BTW, I see this Hammer with one piece mount per Steve's recommendation ;D but less magnification and illuminated(not important) http://www.amazon.com/Hammers-4-12X40AO-Magnum-Spring-Built/dp/B015YN8QTE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1WK1IND8BEFL4 (http://www.amazon.com/Hammers-4-12X40AO-Magnum-Spring-Built/dp/B015YN8QTE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1WK1IND8BEFL4)
What's ya opinion on it vs. the last suggestion 4-16x40?
There is some not recommend a low end scope with 4 times range magnification as this one (like 3-12, 4-16, 6-24), only recommend 3 times range like 3-9, 4-12... what ya think?
If I decide to get the Hawke and use the current optima rings, would it be ok? or new ring?
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;) Actually we are all only too happy to encourage to buy new AG's in the hope that after we read a member review we really don't want that AG but think it is really cool ;D ;D Only kidding we all try to help one another spend our hard earned money and help to hide the addiction from our collective spouses ::) ;D
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;) Actually we are all only too happy to encourage to buy new AG's in the hope that after we read a member review we really don't want that AG but think it is really cool ;D ;D Only kidding we all try to help one another spend our hard earned money and help to hide the addiction from our collective spouses ::) ;D
Is that a carrot you're holding? I need a scope to see up close ;D
I am appreciate all members helping out.
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
I hear ya LOL. He teases me a little higher with a carrot(Hawke 4-12x40 AO). BTW, I see this Hammer with one piece mount per Steve's recommendation ;D but less magnification and illuminated(not important) http://www.amazon.com/Hammers-4-12X40AO-Magnum-Spring-Built/dp/B015YN8QTE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1WK1IND8BEFL4 (http://www.amazon.com/Hammers-4-12X40AO-Magnum-Spring-Built/dp/B015YN8QTE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1WK1IND8BEFL4)
What's ya opinion on it vs. the last suggestion 4-16x40?
There is some not recommend a low end scope with 4 times range magnification as this one (like 3-12, 4-16, 6-24), only recommend 3 times range like 3-9, 4-12... what ya think?
If I decide to get the Hawke and use the current optima rings, would it be ok? or new ring?
To be clear, I've never had a Hammers scope but overall they seem to get good feedback for budget scopes. I gave you the link to the 4-16X40 because it appears to be the same scope that CP dropped & that was a good 'un. I would think the 4-12X40 would probably be fine but for the relatively small difference in $$$ I'd go with the 4-16. JMHO One thing to keep in mind if this is going on a Hatsan (can't recall what rifle you have)--to get proper eye relief you need to have either 2 piece rings and move the scope stop up to the front holes putting the front ring in front of it OR get the UTG offset one piece OR go with the 2" offset Hawke rings. I personally wouldn't use those Optima rings but it wouldn't hurt anything to try them. Hope this doesn't getcha more confused. ;)
Ed
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;) Actually we are all only too happy to encourage to buy new AG's in the hope that after we read a member review we really don't want that AG but think it is really cool ;D ;D Only kidding we all try to help one another spend our hard earned money and help to hide the addiction from our collective spouses ::) ;D
+1!!! I try my best to order so that delivery will be made when my dear wife will be elsewhere........
Ed
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;) Actually we are all only too happy to encourage to buy new AG's in the hope that after we read a member review we really don't want that AG but think it is really cool ;D ;D Only kidding we all try to help one another spend our hard earned money and help to hide the addiction from our collective spouses ::) ;D
+1!!! I try my best to order so that delivery will be made when my dear wife will be elsewhere........
Ed
;) ;D :o my older step son puts my AG stuff in the man cave before the wife gets home from work ;D ;D ;D
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
First thanks for the laugh. Your house was half full of airguns before I joined the forum and as I recall, you bought your first Edge because I bought my Spector and you said you thought it was only fair that you try one of mine because I tried one of yours.
You bought the 2nd Edge because you liked that first one so much.
The Webley Tomahawk is the only one I said break the bank and buy....that rifle is as accurate as my HW95 and was half the price.
There's NO way yer blamin' me for that new NP2, I don't even own one and have never mentioned them....LMBO
Gump, I shoot pretty much the same distances as you do and once in awhile out to 40-60 yards and the bulk of my scopes are all 3-9x40 AO mil dot and for me have worked great for all my shooting whether it's targets or the occasional pest so anything 3-9, 4-12 or 4-16 should work great for the shooting you do.
If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one. Will save you $18 and you can put that towards whatever scope you finally decide to get, whether it ends up being a Hawke , Hammers or something else.
Let me know :)
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
I hear ya LOL. He teases me a little higher with a carrot(Hawke 4-12x40 AO). BTW, I see this Hammer with one piece mount per Steve's recommendation ;D but less magnification and illuminated(not important) http://www.amazon.com/Hammers-4-12X40AO-Magnum-Spring-Built/dp/B015YN8QTE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1WK1IND8BEFL4 (http://www.amazon.com/Hammers-4-12X40AO-Magnum-Spring-Built/dp/B015YN8QTE?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_3&smid=A1WK1IND8BEFL4)
What's ya opinion on it vs. the last suggestion 4-16x40?
There is some not recommend a low end scope with 4 times range magnification as this one (like 3-12, 4-16, 6-24), only recommend 3 times range like 3-9, 4-12... what ya think?
If I decide to get the Hawke and use the current optima rings, would it be ok? or new ring?
You asked some really good questions ;D
General rule of thumb is a 3X magnification mechanism is easier for the manufacturer to make reliable and of higher quality than a 4X mechanism. But individual item quality can vary so widely that you might see a 4X mechanism doing better than a 3X mech. I'm new to using scopes so I'd be the last person in the world to ask but that is my take on what seems to be the consensus.
As far as 3X or 4X low end, and 9X, 12X, (16X and 24X), depends on what you intend to aim at. AO or side focus can be important to weigh in on based upon your answer(s) as well.
As for me, at 10 - 15 yards I find any more than 5X too much trouble to acquire the target quickly. 3X to 4X at that range is good enough if I'm not trying to thread under a 1/2" shot window at that range. At 20 to 25 yards, I want 5X to 9X (using a 3X9 mostly). I said want, but if the target is hard to discern I'd change that word to need, and it would be 9X. But at 9X it is the same as over 5X at 10 yards, difficult to acquire quickly. That's a gray area as far as trying to be thorough in answering your question though, since I think someone else might be able to make use of higher than 9X at 20 yards and still be able to quickly acquire a target if they had to, I just couldn't do it with any regularity. Maybe you could - and if so, at that range I'd say up to 12X could be handy.
Now, for stationary targets, again, range and intended target. But generally, if wanting precision and have some support (bench or otherwise), higher power then comes in handy rather than being a determent. Still, I would consider the mentioned 6 - 24X too much scope for most applications. Not just the more magnification the harder it is to steady it, but you might miss the lower range below 6X...
There have been many discussions on the forum gates about recommending a scope where these considerations and others came up, maybe do a search if I didn't get close to a decent answer?
HTH
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If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one.
SawEEEET! I don't care what othEdr say about you ;D, I'll pm ya
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... maybe do a search if I didn't get close to a decent answer?
Thank you, the answer is pretty much cover my puzzles.
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
First thanks for the laugh. Your house was half full of airguns before I joined the forum and as I recall, you bought your first Edge because I bought my Spector and you said you thought it was only fair that you try one of mine because I tried one of yours.
You bought the 2nd Edge because you liked that first one so much.
The Webley Tomahawk is the only one I said break the bank and buy....that rifle is as accurate as my HW95 and was half the price.
There's NO way yer blamin' me for that new NP2, I don't even own one and have never mentioned them....LMBO
Gump, I shoot pretty much the same distances as you do and once in awhile out to 40-60 yards and the bulk of my scopes are all 3-9x40 AO mil dot and for me have worked great for all my shooting whether it's targets or the occasional pest so anything 3-9, 4-12 or 4-16 should work great for the shooting you do.
If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one. Will save you $18 and you can put that towards whatever scope you finally decide to get, whether it ends up being a Hawke , Hammers or something else.
Let me know :)
VERY funny stuff, double LMBO!!! ;D You really oughta send Gumper those inferior 1" offset Hawke rings so you can get a set of the PROPER 2" offsets!
Ed
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
First thanks for the laugh. Your house was half full of airguns before I joined the forum and as I recall, you bought your first Edge because I bought my Spector and you said you thought it was only fair that you try one of mine because I tried one of yours.
You bought the 2nd Edge because you liked that first one so much.
The Webley Tomahawk is the only one I said break the bank and buy....that rifle is as accurate as my HW95 and was half the price.
There's NO way yer blamin' me for that new NP2, I don't even own one and have never mentioned them....LMBO
Gump, I shoot pretty much the same distances as you do and once in awhile out to 40-60 yards and the bulk of my scopes are all 3-9x40 AO mil dot and for me have worked great for all my shooting whether it's targets or the occasional pest so anything 3-9, 4-12 or 4-16 should work great for the shooting you do.
If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one. Will save you $18 and you can put that towards whatever scope you finally decide to get, whether it ends up being a Hawke , Hammers or something else.
Let me know :)
VERY funny stuff, double LMBO!!! ;D You really oughta send Gumper those inferior 1" offset Hawke rings so you can get a set of the PROPER 2" offsets!
Ed
Try a set before you trash them oh wise and ancient one ;D :P I actually have a set here I bought for a Ruger 10/22 I ended up never buying (I got the XS25 instead) but they're weaver mount, not dovetail and I don't happen to have a weaver rail for them at the moment or I actually would have.
Been looking for one like my Umarex Fuel has but so far no luck. I even tried Umarex and got told they're actually part of the receiver and not made to be removed without possibly damaging the rifle so the search continues.
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Thank you all for your input.
Yer very welcome Gump (Gumper, Gumpy? :D). Just a word to the wise. Be VERY careful when taking advice from Steve, he's on a mission to spend all yer $$$--"hey, you only live once" let'r rip and buy buy BUY! Next thing ya know your house is full of airguns and you're in the welfare line! Very devious character! ;) :D ;D
Ed
First thanks for the laugh. Your house was half full of airguns before I joined the forum and as I recall, you bought your first Edge because I bought my Spector and you said you thought it was only fair that you try one of mine because I tried one of yours.
You bought the 2nd Edge because you liked that first one so much.
The Webley Tomahawk is the only one I said break the bank and buy....that rifle is as accurate as my HW95 and was half the price.
There's NO way yer blamin' me for that new NP2, I don't even own one and have never mentioned them....LMBO
Gump, I shoot pretty much the same distances as you do and once in awhile out to 40-60 yards and the bulk of my scopes are all 3-9x40 AO mil dot and for me have worked great for all my shooting whether it's targets or the occasional pest so anything 3-9, 4-12 or 4-16 should work great for the shooting you do.
If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one. Will save you $18 and you can put that towards whatever scope you finally decide to get, whether it ends up being a Hawke , Hammers or something else.
Let me know :)
VERY funny stuff, double LMBO!!! ;D You really oughta send Gumper those inferior 1" offset Hawke rings so you can get a set of the PROPER 2" offsets!
Ed
Try a set before you trash them oh wise and ancient one ;D :P I actually have a set here I bought for a Ruger 10/22 I ended up never buying (I got the XS25 instead) but they're weaver mount, not dovetail and I don't happen to have a weaver rail for them at the moment or I actually would have.
Been looking for one like my Umarex Fuel has but so far no luck. I even tried Umarex and got told they're actually part of the receiver and not made to be removed without possibly damaging the rifle so the search continues.
Ancient? Guilty as charged! Wise? Uhhh, not so much........ ;)
Actually, I own 2 rifles with picatinny/weaver rails (the XL1100 & the Summit NP2) and no need for an offset ring on either one.
Happy shooting buddy!
Ed
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;) Actually we are all only too happy to encourage to buy new AG's in the hope that after we read a member review we really don't want that AG but think it is really cool ;D ;D Only kidding we all try to help one another spend our hard earned money and help to hide the addiction from our collective spouses ::) ;D
+1!!! I try my best to order so that delivery will be made when my dear wife will be elsewhere........
Ed
;) ;D :o my older step son puts my AG stuff in the man cave before the wife gets home from work ;D ;D ;D
Now that's a good boy you've got there! ;)
Ed
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If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one.
SawEEEET! I don't care what othEdr say about you ;D, I'll pm ya
Hee-Haw! It's a Christmas in April (http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/dance-smileys/dancing-smileys09.gif)
I received it even earlier than scheduled. I thought it's a metallic blue ;D just kidding. Thank you Santa Steve. (http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/banana-smileys/banana_smiley_006.gif) (http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/music-smileys/electric_guitar.gif)
Last weekend, I did some refining on a trigger and a pinging noise. I was unable to change my trigger pulling habit and got stuck on Hatsan Edge standard trigger setup. So, I put back the original screw and buffed some sear contacted spots. I was really enjoy shooting but the rain kept on interrupting.
I have to say, it is a keeper unless some part breaks under warranty which can be replaced per part. The Hatsan Edge Vortex is a good recommendation from valuable members of this forum. My .02 is any brand or model rifle would have some discrepancy, some minor or major depends on one's opinion. Although I own only one but I see many ouch and oops reports during my research. Both Hatsan and PyramydAir resolved my issues, that's good enough reason for me to stick with the recommendation per my budget and sale price.
ProSteveLy... I mean... Positively ;D, I get to learn much more stuff within a short period of time, what and where to inspect this particular Edge model to be able to determine a good one or defective. After a warranty expired, I may customize it like Steve's blue :P.
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Our-friggin-standing!
Now it's on my "Want List"
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If I poke around in the mess of stuff I have here, I know I have a couple of the UTG offset mounts just sitting. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll send you one.
SawEEEET! I don't care what othEdr say about you ;D, I'll pm ya
Hee-Haw! It's a Christmas in April (http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/dance-smileys/dancing-smileys09.gif)
I received it even earlier than scheduled. I thought it's a metallic blue ;D just kidding. Thank you Santa Steve. (http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/banana-smileys/banana_smiley_006.gif) (http://www.4smileys.com/smileys/music-smileys/electric_guitar.gif)
Last weekend, I did some refining on a trigger and a pinging noise. I was unable to change my trigger pulling habit and got stuck on Hatsan Edge standard trigger setup. So, I put back the original screw and buffed some sear contacted spots. I was really enjoy shooting but the rain kept on interrupting.
I have to say, it is a keeper unless some part breaks under warranty which can be replaced per part. The Hatsan Edge Vortex is a good recommendation from valuable members of this forum. My .02 is any brand or model rifle would have some discrepancy, some minor or major depends on one's opinion. Although I own only one but I see many ouch and oops reports during my research. Both Hatsan and PyramydAir resolved my issues, that's good enough reason for me to stick with the recommendation per my budget and sale price.
ProSteveLy... I mean... Positively ;D, I get to learn much more stuff within a short period of time, what and where to inspect this particular Edge model to be able to determine a good one or defective. After a warranty expired, I may customize it like Steve's blue :P.
I still have some of that blue paint, all you had to do was ask...lol...which reminds me...decide on a scope yet??
Hoosier,
I have 4 Edges and the first one is what got me started on easy, free or at least crazy cheap ways to make them a little smoother shooting rifle. I say smoother because for me at least, they've all shot great out of the box and just needed a little smoothing out and I've found cheap ways to strengthen the front stock screw holes, fill the hollow stock and pistol grip and for a .25 cent allen head screw, make the 2nd stage of the trigger a little better.
I did get way crazy on the .177 I have but that was part boredom, totally intentional and the reason I even bought it. Go back far enough in the Turkish Gate and you can find the threads I've posted on the things I've done or PM me if you want, I have a list of them in a file on my computer just so I can find them again....lol
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I still have some of that blue paint, all you had to do was ask...lol...which reminds me...decide on a scope yet??
Too soon to decide, I'm still researching and experimenting with the combo scope. I try to see what magnification range is suitable for me, 3-9 or 4-12. Maybe, there will be Hawke 4-12x40 on sale by the time I'm ready. I really enjoy shooting with this Edge.
By this time next year, I will ask for paint selection. You might have more variety colors in your collection by then ;D
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If or when I do a 2nd one, I'm thinking candy apple red....
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If or when I do a 2nd one, I'm thinking candy apple red....
Do you mean 3rd? I saw your Harvest Moon Camo(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/hand-gestures/im-watching-you-smiley-emoticon.gif) ;D
Funny that I was thinking red color too but referring as sport race red... red with some white and/or yellow splatter.
I have a question about a Mil-dot reticle. Per-say, I use Crosman PHP .22 14.3gr, what is a minimum target distance which I would need to use a next lower dot? regardless a distance between center dot and one lower dot.
The reason I ask is just in case something on sale other than mil-dot model.
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Nope, I meant 2nd. The Harvest Moon Camo is an actual Hatsan Edge stock option but it only comes on the spring piston models. Only reason I have it is because I saw the rifle on the Pyramyd Air website, didn't read the description of the rifle far enough, thought I was getting a Vortex and bought the rifle. Found out after I got it that I bought a springer.
Hatsan makes a couple other stock versions for the rifle but doesn't sell them in the US, one is Mossy Oak Camo and the other is a Walnut Woodgrain camo which I actually looked into getting but they want $79.99 for the stock plus another $20 to ship it from Turkey plus a 60-90 day wait to get it. I'm not paying more for a plastic stock than I did for the rifle and if I want a wood grain one, the Edge rifles will fit in the Striker wood stocks. I have one on the .22 I got from Hatsan for $39.95 plus shipping.
My Vortex .25 is currently in it because I was working on the .25 springer trigger while I was tuning the rifle and the spring for the safety went flying and I haven't found it yet and won't shoot it without the safety working right.
For the mil dots, all my rifles are zeroed for 30 yards. The mil dots below the center line only come into play when I go back farther than 30 and have to compensate for pellet drop. For my Edge .22 it's 1 mil dot at 45 yards. Farther back I'm not sure as I'd have to sit on the other side of the street I live on to shoot that far. I live on a dead end street and there's an open lot I could shoot from but I have no urge to chat with the local police about why I am.
The picture is my Edge .22 in the Striker wood stock. With the discounts I got from AGD, it was $79.99 with pellets and targets and after saving all that money, I dressed it up in the Striker wood stock and put the Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO IR scope on it. Was my christmas present to myself....lol
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... they want $79.99 for the stock plus another $20 to ship it from Turkey plus a 60-90 day wait to get it.
Dang, that's too much for my blood.
... the Striker wood stocks. I have one on the .22 I got from Hatsan for $39.95 plus shipping.
Is that recent price? what's the shipping cost?
I saw this post and bookmarked for my note http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=79121.msg774588#msg774588 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=79121.msg774588#msg774588)
and Ed's warning http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=101072.msg949512#msg949512 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=101072.msg949512#msg949512)
... the spring for the safety went flying ...
Are you talking about a safety spring ref#169 or pin locking ring ref#153? I need to pay extra cautious.
My house is second from a dead end street where the police parks for watching the neighborhood from time to time. So you know my limit, even my backyard ;D. It's good to know that mil-dot is not much need for me.
The picture is my Edge .22 in the Striker wood stock. With the discounts I got from AGD, it was $79.99 with pellets and targets and after saving all that money, I dressed it up in the Striker wood stock and put the Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO IR scope on it. Was my christmas present to myself....lol
now, that's bragging... isn't it against the forum's rule? ;D Very Niiiiice!!! +a steal price.
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E-mail HatsanUSA service and they'll happily give you current price and availability and shipping cost for the rifle stock, just tell them you'd like to buy the Striker wood stock and if you do, be careful with the wrapping it comes in because they include replacement stock screws but the bag their in is just mixed in with the wrapping: service@hatsanusa.com
The spring in question is part number 158 in your picture and not a clue how I managed to send it winging, but I figure I'll find it when I least expect it or maybe see if Hatsan will actually sell me one so I can finally see what tuning it did for the rifle.
And yep, that wood grain stock was too rich for mine and the real wood one looks way better and was half the price.
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That Striker stock will cost you $55 w/shipping, well actually $54.90. $34.95 + $14.95. ::) I won't mention that Hatsan messed up when I asked about buying one and they quoted me what a warranty replacement would cost. I'd never mentioned the word warranty at all and out of ignorance & trying to be helpful I posted the incorrect price on here and caused a big stink. I ESPECIALLY will not post that when I explained to Hatsan the what & why of it all they actually apologized to me and took care of me.
END of STORY. ;)
Ed
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... they actually apologized to me and took care of me.
That's what I'm talking about ;)
55 is not too bad, fair price for a wood stock. Thanks Ed.
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... they actually apologized to me and took care of me.
That's what I'm talking about ;)
55 is not too bad, fair price for a wood stock. Thanks Ed.
but I like the break down price better $34.95 + $14.95 ;D I just playin' with ya
Gotcha. ;D It is actually a very nice looking stock. Just beech but they made it look nice.
Ed
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What ever is listed on my signature I can vouch for, If i suggested something I ended up buying one, so far no complaints and only one major repair on the Crosman MTR .177 needed a gas piston. Oh and now after 3 years Hatsan 125 needs a piston seal.
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That Striker stock will cost you $55 w/shipping, well actually $54.90. $34.95 + $14.95. ::) I won't mention that Hatsan messed up when I asked about buying one and they quoted me what a warranty replacement would cost. I'd never mentioned the word warranty at all and out of ignorance & trying to be helpful I posted the incorrect price on here and caused a big stink. I ESPECIALLY will not post that when I explained to Hatsan the what & why of it all they actually apologized to me and took care of me.
END of STORY. ;)
Ed
Uhhh, make that $39.95 + $14.95......... :-[
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The spring in question is part number 158 in your picture...
Ah, that's a trigger spring. I actually dealt with that particular one, last weekend. I think I know why it sprung away from you, it clicked and turned loose. My situation was the inner edge on a trigger so rough like a saw teeth somewhat. The spring was lightly stuck and ready to pop any time. That's a finding which trouble my trigger pull concentration. I made some pictures a couple days ago. Mind as well share them while we're on the subject. You may be interested. There are two ways to fix it, easy or permanent see pictures.
This fix may help a lot of Hatsan Edge shooters, including you, John Woodskills. I hadn't forgot about you who started this very helpful thread. Haven't see you a while, too bz shooting?
Sorry, I should have paid a little more attention. #169, the safety spring in your diagram is the one I sent winging, see trigger picture below.
The one in your picture is the one that controls that longgggg first stage trigger pull that everyone dislikes. There's a thread on fixes for both that spring and the M3 x 8mm or M3 x 10mm 2nd stage screw fix. Ed did the set screw fix in the thread which basically pushes that spring off the back of the trigger and shortens the first stage and he said it works great. Here's the link to the thread:
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=84653.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=84653.0)
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It's been rain so many days this week and finally cleared out. My tough luck continues, the combo scope is failed to hold zero. First, I thought that I did poorly on my part or barrel need to be clean/lube or bad batch pellets. It took me a long long while to figure out. I couldn't get a group test and was very frustrated. Being newbie, I thought that maybe somehow a barrel was damaged and blaming a cheap Crosman pellets was contaminated with debris. I inspected and there was no loose screw. While I began a full clean/lube process, I felt how light it was without a scope. So, I took a few shots and hit a bulls-eye and it was a cool feeling.
I put a scope back on and hit the target without adjustment. After few shots, it dropped a couple inches and gone wild. I turned the rifle up side down and hand tapped or slapped on a scope, I could hit a target again. After the repeat troubleshoot, I decided to submit a request for a scope exchange with PA. Let's see how it turns out. I know that no one likes this combo scope but it should properly function throughout a year warranty. In my case, it's less than 30 days and learning in a fast pace ;D.
I am looking for a replacement scope anyway, Hawke Vantage 4-12x40 but not on sale yet. There is BSA 6-18x40 $53 shipped from Fieldsupply posted in bargain gate. It's more suitable for my cheap budget and should fit nicely with a ring which I got from a kind member, named Steve(scp52). Some review mentions a poor reticle visual on high magnification on this scope which I may not need for my range.
In the mean time, I am shooting with an open sight and enjoy it.
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Gump,
If you contact Hatsan USA about that scope being bad, I think you can upgrade it from the 3-9x32 to a 3-9x40 AO that I've seen several members post about and say it's a better made scope and has held up nicely.
I THINK it's something like $20 for the upgrade to the better scope, but don't quote me on it. Safest bet as always is to e-mail Hatsan, explain your scope problem and ask about upgrading to the better scope.
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Gump,
If you contact Hatsan USA about that scope being bad, I think you can upgrade it from the 3-9x32 to a 3-9x40 AO that I've seen several members post about and say it's a better made scope and has held up nicely.
I THINK it's something like $20 for the upgrade to the better scope, but don't quote me on it. Safest bet as always is to e-mail Hatsan, explain your scope problem and ask about upgrading to the better scope.
Me, frequently ;) More than that, I was about to post how they hold up ... at least mine, on a pumper.
I've just kicked the rifle over. The scope broke the fall nicely :P. 4th or 5th time now, it adjusted right back in. Is it my clearest? NO. My fastest (AO Vs. Side focus)? NO. But 10 pumps, 10 or 15 tins, beating it to death, and mil-dots too. What's not to love ;D
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Gump,
If you contact Hatsan USA about that scope being bad, I think you can upgrade it from the 3-9x32 to a 3-9x40 AO that I've seen several members post about and say it's a better made scope and has held up nicely.
I THINK it's something like $20 for the upgrade to the better scope, but don't quote me on it. Safest bet as always is to e-mail Hatsan, explain your scope problem and ask about upgrading to the better scope.
I didn't think of that. Well, I already submitted a request with PA, I just gonna wait and see because it's within 30 days thing. Is 3-9x40 AO really upgrade in quality? or is it just more feature bigger lens and AO? and what about warranty?
With my cheap low budget, I think I'll spend that $20 toward that BSA for $53 or maybe Hawke ;D. Unless, there is any one ever upgrade and recommend.
I've just kicked the rifle over... 4th or 5th time now, it adjusted right back in... What's not to love ;D
So that's how she is, likes it rough, eh? I couldn't tell, mine didn't come with a whip and leather outfit LOL
I repeated the adjustment maybe 3 times which was good for 4 to 6 shots. It was not fun seeing my tail again.
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Gump,
If you contact Hatsan USA about that scope being bad, I think you can upgrade it from the 3-9x32 to a 3-9x40 AO that I've seen several members post about and say it's a better made scope and has held up nicely.
I THINK it's something like $20 for the upgrade to the better scope, but don't quote me on it. Safest bet as always is to e-mail Hatsan, explain your scope problem and ask about upgrading to the better scope.
I didn't think of that. Well, I already submitted a request with PA, I just gonna wait and see because it's within 30 days thing. Is 3-9x40 AO really upgrade in quality? or is it just more feature bigger lens and AO? and what about warranty?
With my cheap low budget, I think I'll spend that $20 toward that BSA for $53 or maybe Hawke ;D. Unless, there is any one ever upgrade and recommend.
I've just kicked the rifle over... 4th or 5th time now, it adjusted right back in... What's not to love ;D
So that's how she is, likes it rough, eh? I couldn't tell, mine didn't come with a whip and leather outfit LOL
I repeated the adjustment maybe 3 times which was good for 4 to 6 shots. It was not fun seeing my tail again.
For $20 you'd have a spare ;) But to answer your question, mine's not been on a springer. The klack klack of the pump handle does sometimes hurt the wrist so I would think the scope takes a beating too. Warranty? I reckon you'd have to ask Hatsan...
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Gump,
If you contact Hatsan USA about that scope being bad, I think you can upgrade it from the 3-9x32 to a 3-9x40 AO that I've seen several members post about and say it's a better made scope and has held up nicely.
I THINK it's something like $20 for the upgrade to the better scope, but don't quote me on it. Safest bet as always is to e-mail Hatsan, explain your scope problem and ask about upgrading to the better scope.
You are correct in all counts. I e-mailed Hatsan, the response was quick. He or she will send a replacement 3-9x32. I don't want to spend $20 for an upgrade (same "quality" but more features) with less than a year warranty (when my rifle warranty expired) vs. other new scope for lifetime(unknown quality).
I know, it's a boring combo scope subject not worth to discuss but it's usable for my purpose. Most people may have a good laugh or chuckling. Some people may be interested about how Hatsan service has been provided.
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As long as you're happy with it and it works for you, that's all that really matters....plus with almost a year of replacements under the warranty, it gives you plenty of time to save up for whatever better scope you finally decide on.
As always, Happy shooting :)
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Since I bought my Nitorvenom I've noticed how nice the Remington Thunderjet looks which from the box is supposed to put out 23 foot pounds of energy with a pellet, thats plenty for hunting small game, they're under $200 at Pyramid air right now. I wish that I could swap out my Nitrovenmom.
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As long as you're happy with it and it works for you, that's all that really matters....plus with almost a year of replacements under the warranty, it gives you plenty of time to save up for whatever better scope you finally decide on.
As always, Happy shooting :)
That's my plan.
Before I bought the rifle, I thought it would be fun to shoot a can or a tennis ball size object. I didn't know that I could shoot a dime size target because my hands are shaking all the time. I am happy with this good deal and accurate starter.
PA response around noon(next business day after submitting a form). Because of the scope is a combo, I have to send both scope and rifle for exchange or contact Hatsan for scope. I replied that I already contacted Hatsan and it's being resolved.
As you mentioned "... Safest bet as always is to e-mail Hatsan..."(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/yes/winking-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gif)