Regulator question for AT-44 .22

[Rallyshark]

As some of you may know from my other post, I now have a regulator on the way for my AT-44 long QE.  My question is about the 6 ports.  Should I leave them as is, or should I plug all, but one and enlarge it?  It seems from what I can find, that most people plugged 5 out of the 6 holes, and enlarged the one that lines up with the transfer.  I may have overlooked it, but I didn't see results for anyone that left them as is, and installed a regulator?  Also, what size are the two o-rings on the (outside)brass fitting on the end of the pressure tube?  The gun came with some extras, but not the smaller one.  I've even considered ordering another one of the fittings that goes into the end of the tube, in case I mess this one up.  Opinions?  Any other advice/cautions you guys can offer on this would be appreciated as well.  Thanks in advance!

Oh, and I tried the gun at 50 yards today, since I was emptying the air out to prepare for the regulator showing up.  I'm happy to say I was able to get a couple of groups that could be covered by a dime, and some were only slightly larger.  Man, this gun sure is accurate

[Ribbonstone]

There is some testing you can do before the regulator gets here.  If you know what the regulator's output pressure is, can kind of tune the rifle BEFORE the regulator shows up.
Just fill it to the expected regulator output and test it for 3-4 shots.  Have to stop and refill it again to test another 3-4 shots, but can at least get an idea of what to expect.

Yeah...the regulated version won't have the regulated air volume of a full non-regulated tube at the same pressure, which will make a difference...but can get a pretty good idea of what to expect once you do get that regulator installed.

[eddie40]

if you order the air superiority reg. that is all you need, they are so good that you don't need to plugs holes at all, i found tha out with mine. i tried the regulator like that first it was wonderful. then everybody talking about the valve holes pluged up so i decided to do it, all that work. and on the end shot count did not make no difference. so i ordered another valve. tried them several times, not much of a difference. i speaking for my self here. maybe without reg would be different i dint know, but with reg i already prove it to my self. like i said i speaking for myself.

[Bwalton]

Vic is right... if you use a reg no need to plug holes as the reg will only use a fixed pressure.

[Rallyshark]

Hmmm, that's not the answer I was expecting, since a lot of the posts/info I've found has been holes plugged with regulators.  Is it that many of the people with regulators originally tried plugging holes, before they got a regulator?  Or, is this a subject that people debate on? I'm all for less work though   I had intended to try as is, so this makes me feel a bit better.

[blackdiesel]

I got my valve modified before getting a regulator.  The main reason I got the regulator was that my gun was shooting too hot with the 18 gr pellets I wanted to use.  I thought the valve mod would help with air efficiency and so would get more shots; however, since I got my reg afterwards it's no way to know in my case.

[Rallyshark]

Thanks again for the input guys!  Luckily, I also ordered a chrony, right after I ordered the regulator.  I should be able to get down to business when all of it shows up   It'll be interesting to see the speed differences of the 14.3,16,18,19,21, and 25gr pellets too.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Baxter,
I would hope the gun would be more efficient with all valve holes filled, but the remaining one.
The compressed air will not expand into the filled valve holes delivering more power for each shot relative to the unplugged valve.  So I would hope velocity should increase a bit , meaning you could back off the hammer or decrease the regulator's set-point, and in theory get more shots .

However, I've never tested to see how marginal this difference would be 

Kirk

[zandrew]

I am getting 50 shots with CPHP @800 fps. Shoots really nice. I do have to turn the fps up for heavier pellets. My guns accuracy is p00p below 800 fps so thats something you might look into as well.

I have not plugged any of my holes on my regulated cylinder.

[Rallyshark]

Hopefully, I'll be able to give some details on how mine works as is in a couple of days, when I get it all set up.  I'm going to try and get it shooting with as much fps as possible, without loosing accuracy on the lighter pellets.  All the pellets I tried shot pretty good as it is.  I'm guessing that should put the 18 and 19gr pellets in the low 900 range.  I haven't tested that theory yet though.  My chrony just showed up today, and I should have the reg tomorrow.  If I'm able to get 35 + shots with good power, I'll be happy. 

[Rallyshark]

Well, I got something wrong when I installed my regulator   The tube was holding air just fine, and I re-installed it into the gun, and it was still holding air just fine.  I shot my first round, and then hissssss.  As soon as I cocked the gun again, it stopped.  Basically,  if the gun is cocked, there is no air leakage.  As soon as a shot is fired, it starts leaking, until it's cocked again.  What did I do wrong, or what is wrong??  I'm not going to mess with it anymore tonight, so I haven't pulled the regulator back out to see if it still does it.  Is it possible I need to back off the hammer spring tension or something?  Remember, I'm a newb on this one   Help please!

[blackdiesel]

Sound like you misplaced the o-ring that goes between the valve and regulator

[Rallyshark]

The one in the base of the regulator, and the one on the outside near the adjustment end were both present and accounted for.  My only clue(having not taken it back out yet) is that the air loss stops when the gun is cocked.  It's like the hammer is resting on the valve or something?  I can see how what you're saying could be the case too.  I'll see what I can figure out tomorrow after work.  I emailed Nick back, and he told me the same thing.  Sounds like I need to stop questioning you guys, and just do what I'm told, haha!

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Donny,
It almost sounds as if the hammer is keeping the valve stem pushed in/open after the shot?
How much pressure is in the gun?  If she is pumped up between 100/200 bar this shouldn't be happening as the back pressure will make the stem difficult to push in.  What is your set-point?

Try backing off the hammer some too.

I have a few guns that when they fall below below 800 psi, the next shot drains the reservoir.
The hammer just holds the valve open
 
Kirk

[blackdiesel]

Hey Donny,
It almost sounds as if the hammer is keeping the valve stem pushed in/open after the shot?
How much pressure is in the gun?  If she is pumped up between 100/200 bar this shouldn't be happening as the back pressure will make the stem difficult to push in.  What is your set-point?

Try backing off the hammer some too.

I have a few guns that when they fall below below 800 psi, the next shot drains the reservoir.
The hammer just holds the valve open
 
Kirk

This sounds reasonable.  I remember having to give a burst of HPA the first time I filled after I installed the reg.  If needed you can borrow my buddy bottle until you get up and running.

[rjorge]

I have seen similar issues, you have a nick on the poppet seal. You should have gotten a spare with the gun, inspect the replacement for nicks and replace the defective one. The hammer is adding just enough force to lift the poppet from the seat a tiny bit, creating the leak through a small nick on the seal.

[Rallyshark]

Hey Donny,
It almost sounds as if the hammer is keeping the valve stem pushed in/open after the shot?
How much pressure is in the gun?  If she is pumped up between 100/200 bar this shouldn't be happening as the back pressure will make the stem difficult to push in.  What is your set-point?

Try backing off the hammer some too.

I have a few guns that when they fall below below 800 psi, the next shot drains the reservoir.
The hammer just holds the valve open
 
Kirk

This sounds reasonable.  I remember having to give a burst of HPA the first time I filled after I installed the reg.  If needed you can borrow my buddy bottle until you get up and running.

Thanks for the offer Norman, god knows my arms could use the rest!  The gun doesn't leak without the regulator.  I tried it tonight.  I spoke with Nick at Air Superiority, and he thinks it's possible the reg isn't letting enough pressure through.  It definitely is the hammer resting on the valve causing it to leak though.  I backed the hammer spring off as low as it can go as well.  I can pull the cocking lever back just enough for the hammer to start to come back and it stops leaking.  I can also unscrew the air tube a little and it stops.  It will do this even with the gun at 200bar.  Nick at Air Superiority said he'd send me another reg, so I can verify if that's the issue or not.  One thing is for sure, Nick takes customer service to the next level! 

I would think if it were a nick on the oring for the poppet, it would leak without the reg as well, right?

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Donny,
Nick sure is going the extra mile .

I'm no expert, but this sure seems like a valve poppet/seat leak issue ...... brought on by hammer force applied to the valve stem.  Have you tried shooting unregulated again, to double check your theory?
A leaking regulator would appear like an unregulated gun, assuming the leak was going into the valve (like it seems to be here).  The valve poppet is ultimately the seal that holds the air pressure so the gun doesn't leak in this fashion.

My two cents ............. as an armchair quarterback



 

[Rallyshark]

Hey Donny,
Nick sure is going the extra mile .

I'm no expert, but this sure seems like a valve poppet/seat leak issue ...... brought on by hammer force applied to the valve stem.  Have you tried shooting unregulated again, to double check your theory?
A leaking regulator would appear like an unregulated gun, assuming the leak was going into the valve (like it seems to be here).  The valve poppet is ultimately the seal that holds the air pressure so the gun doesn't leak in this fashion.

My two cents ............. as an armchair quarterback



 

Yes, I did try it without the regulator again   It didn't leak then.  I'll take another look at that poppet just to be sure.  I don't think the reg is leaking.  I think the reg is over-regulating and not letting enough pressure get to the valve.  I may try again tomorrow and see if I can get chrony readings.  I haven't been able to yet, since it's been dark when I've been monkeying around with it.  I can tell that when it does shoot, it doesn't seem have any ooomph.  I had to stop for tonight though.  My arms need a break from pumping...

[Rallyshark]

Okay, I just pumped the gun up again to about 140 bar, and shot the gun down to a hair over 100bar(without the reg).  There are zero leaks.  I left the gun at the ending pressure, and it's holding just fine.  I also took the hammer spring tension from minimum to 2.5 turns out, and it was shooting 957fps at 140 and was at 911fps when I stopped at just over 100bar.  I didn't put the reg back in and chrony it, but I don't really see a reason to do that at this point.  There just isn't enough pressure from the reg to keep the valve closed.

I'm sure Nick at Air Superiority will get me a new reg out asap, just like he said he would.  I will also note that he was the one that suggested that.  I can't tell you what happened to the reg.  I never dropped it, and have handled it like an egg,lol!  I'm sure it's possible I could have done something with the adjustment on it.  I was sure not to turn it too much, but who knows.  We also have to remember that the USPS got to play with it for a few days, haha.    SpiralGroove, you are right about Nick going the extra mile.  He has done nothing, but be helpful, and certainly appreciate him taking time to talk with me on the matter.  He definitely is a customer service oriented guy for sure