Pistol questions please... HW75 & HW45/P1

[Technical Ted]

At this point, I'm not sure what my next purchase will be.... I've got my eye on a couple of German rifles, but with winter coming and having a large basement, I'm also considering buying a nice pistol. Two pistols that have sparked some interest are the HW75 and P1/HW45.

My use would be target shooting only, no hunting. I'm guessing my typical range would be 10-30 yards, but it would be nice to be able to reach out a tad farther if I got the bug, but not a requirement.

Questions:

1- I've read that the P1 is more difficult to shoot than the HW75 because it's a springer. Is the P1 "terribly" hold sensitive? I know this is relative, but is there night and day difference between the two? It would be nice to have the additional power of the HW45/P1, but not if I struggle to hit a barn door! Is the hold for the P1 hard to master for accurate shooting and tight groups? It's such a classic it seems that a lot of people must really love the P1...

2- Is the only difference between the P1 and HK45 the writing on the side? I've read that the P1 wasn't as "nice" as the HW45. Then again, I've read they are virtually identical....

I'd love to hear comments on these pistols and any others that I may be overlooking that are comparable (not interested in CO2 or PCP at this time).

Thanks!
Ted

[Motorhead]

Having owned a P1 for near 30 years can give ya feedback there ...
IT IS a HW45 only with Beeman markings and grips. ( Most 1911 .45 grips fit the frame )
The pistol is Large ...Very large and feels in hand like a top heavy 1911, tho balances well in spite this.
Power is 2 stage pending if half stroke or full stroke cocked.
Very nice adjustable sights that are attached to top half of cocking lever/upper receiver.  This keeps Barrel and sights aligned even tho side motion is there as you lock it into main chassis.
Trigger fully adjustable & quite nice !

In shooting, it DOES JUMP especially at high power position. ( In .177 with @ 7 grain lead 600 fps !! ) so in terms of pistol velocity's there a STRONG shooter to be sure. 
Typical HW quality being made very well.

Learn to shoot it and there very accurate for a recoiling pistol.

They are one piston gun THAT CAN BE dry fired without harming it.
Used is a Teflon piston seal that actually is form fitted to comp chamber by hard impact ( deliberate dry firing )

All I got 

[grauhanen]

The HW45 is a very nice air pistol, well-built and reliable, but it is not easy to shoot really well.    The HW75 is a single stroke pneumatic and makes it easier to shoot with greater accuracy.  Competition air pistol is done at 10 meters (or yards), and for that the HW75 will serve an air pistol shooter well.  Indoor shooting in the winter is often at ranges even less than 10 meters.  It is well to keep in mind that shooting any pistol for accuracy -- air or PB -- is much more challenging than shooting a rifle for accuracy.  I've had both air pistols and if I was going to get one of these it would be the HW75 because the HW45 is tough nut to shoot well and is not a target air pistol.

[MikieG]

These guys aint liein. The P1 Magnum is just that. Here is a pistol that makes R7 rifle power. I myself have been thought of as a pistol shooter from time to time but.....  P1 is tough to shoot well for accuracy. You can hunt with it, you can plink with it. But if shooting many pellets into a nice tiny group is your game, the P1 can do it. Just a matter of if YOU can do it.
Now that said, IF you vecome skilled with the P1, you WILL be awesome with every other pistol on the planet. I have a San Rafael P1. Mine has both barrels .22 and .177. Would i do it again? Well sweatheart, the only air pistol i own is a P1.

[Brazos]

I went thru the same decision about two years ago.  I went with the HW75.  Though I would not mind picking up a HW45 one day I do not regret the 75 for a second.  The weight and balance are perfect.  The trigger is perfect (it is adjustable but I have never found the need on this one).  It is boringly accurate.  The sights are great.  Build quality is flawless.  The walnut grips are great.  There is no recoil.  I can't think of anything that isn't perfect.

Strangely if I had one complaint is that it is so darn accurate it can get boring.  It hits anything you aim it at.  I can't really fault the pistol or HW though.  They built it that good.  My good friend has the HW40.  More or less a polymer version of the 75.  It is a nice pistol but I am glad I spent the extra money for the 75.  It just shoots better and all around a nicer pistol to hand down to the kids and grandkids.

[wjjones]

I had The P1 many years ago.  Because of the heavy recoil, you MUST use a consistent grip from shot to shot, much like you would with a  springer rifle. For some reason this seems harder with a pistol.  It requires a lot of practice and deliberate technique.

Also, you can't switch from high power to low power from shot to shot!  There is a drastic change in POI between settings and the POI can shift a move up or down a couple inches at ten yards.  Once your gun is sighted for low or high power, you may want to leave it at that power setting rather than adjust the sights again.

I now have an HW75.  Its power level is about the same as the low power setting on the P1/HW45.  That power level is plenty for punching paper and plinking.  It has no recoil and I don't have to tell you how accurate this thing is. It had enough power to kill a chipmunk at ten yards, but I don't make a habit of using it for pesting.  I have other guns for that.

[EMrider]

If you master the proper technique, the HW45 can be very accurate. The accuracy does not come easy, but it is a very enjoyable and rewarding air pistol.  The fact that it does recoil is one of its characteristics that I enjoy the most.  SSP pistols get boring pretty fast. 

Good luck choosing.

R

[Yogi]

I have a Diana LP 8 Magnum and a Diana 6G with Match grips.
Have you considered either the IZH-46M or a "cheap" pcp?  I find the cocking action of the P1, Gammo Match, HW45 to weird to even consider.  Breakbarrels are sooooo much easier and natural to load.
Consider the Crossman Silhouette, the Alfa Comp, and the Hammerli AP20 Air Pistol.  A hand pump should surface for the PCP's.  Or look for an older FWB 65.  Pistol shooting is much harder than rifle shooting, FYI.
Good luck...
-Yogi

[north country gal]

Ted, as we've been discussing via PMs, the HW45 is harder to shoot, but it's such a beautiful, high quality gun that it's hard not to like it, anyway. Love mine, even though I also have the 75. As we've discussed, though, if you're shooting for score, the HW75 is awesome. It keeps right up with our Izzy and that's saying something.

If you do go with the 45/P1, I do prefer the FO sights on the HW45 version. Wish my 75 had them.

[Technical Ted]

Thanks a million for the input everybody! Right now I'm leaning towards the 75. I'm not a very good shot with a pistol and sounds like the 75 will be a lot more forgiving and easier for me to learn pistol holds and shooting with. Paper shooting between 10-25 yards in my basement this winter should be a very good start.

Anyone have any suggestions for food? My TX200 likes AA 4.51 domed and I have a nice supply of them, but if someone has had really good luck with a different pellet I might buy a tin or two when I order the 75. I've got some other domed pellets I can try, but I don't have any wad cutters if they work well.

Thanks,
Ted

[north country gal]

Ted, I use wadcutters for all my 10 meter shooting with the 75 and have also used them out to 25 yards with good success. Mostly R10s, because I shoot R10s in other air pistols, but Meisterkugelns work just as well and are a bit cheaper. The advantage of a wadcutter, of course, is the nice clean holes for the sake of scoring

For a domed pellet, the JSB Exact 7.33s do group a bit better for me out at 25 yards than the wadcutters and I suspect that I get a bit more velocity with them than the heavier wadcutters, so not as much sight adjustment needed. JSB Exacts in one weight or another are always a good pellet to have on hand, anyway. Work well in most any HW. Give them a try.

Haven't tried the FTTs, but I suspect they'll do well and some of my other HWs do like them. Like you, I keep them on hand for our TX. My 75 is not too pellet fussy, so give them a try.

[.]

I'm a bit late to this party, and all the main points have been well-covered already, but I did want to add my two cents anyhoo, lol..

Both pistols are excellent choices, but for very different reasons. Sure, the 75 makes a very forgiving, boringly accurate shooter, and that is a virtuous thing, certainly. But the P1/HW45 does more than just give R7 power in a pistol, it will make a pistol shooter out of you, if you aren't already, if you take on the challenge. I don't think a better training pistol exists, actually, this pistol will deliver better accuracy than most .45 acps will, once you figure it out. And in figuring it out, you will develop the zen to shoot ALL your pistols better, believe me. I absolutely love what these pistols do for the shooter, they make you be your best, or go home, lol.

Now, that said, they aren't really all THAT hard to master, but the question is whether a person is up for the challenge personally, or not. For those that dare, great joys lie ahead.

[Technical Ted]

Everyone brings up excellent points... First I lean one way, then the other. I really didn't think much about using this pistol for a "trainer". So, is it the consensus that mastering the P1 over the 75 will basically make a better shooter out of you? I certainly have learned, and continue to learn, a lot from my TX, much more so than a PB.

Thanks,
Ted

[Brazos]

I have been shooting wadcutters out of my 75.  So far just RWS Basics and RWS Meisterkuglens.  They both shoot great.  RWS Basics are cheap.

[north country gal]

Ted, the 45 is a best bet for someone who has already mastered the basics of pistol shooting and is up to the challenge, as Girl mentioned. If you're somewhat new to pistol shooting and still learning the basics, though, the 45 may be too big a step. Gotta learn to walk before you run. As a first serious pistol, I like the 75. My two cents, anyway. You can always add the 45, later, right?

[Technical Ted]

You can always add the 45, later, right?

That's exactly what I was thinking! 

Thanks,
Ted

[Technical Ted]

I want to thank everyone for the excellent input on my decision. I was going to wait until closer to winter, but I just couldn't take it anymore!  I pulled the trigger this morning on a HW75. I feel this was a better fit for me and I'm sure I won't be disappointed. But, in all likelihood, I'll probably end up with a P1 down the line as well!  That will give me something to look forward to next winter!

Thanks,
Ted

[.]

Congrats, Ted!

There really wasn't a 'wrong' choice, lol, and the 75 is a great piece, for sure. You'll have a ton of fun with it, and, as you mentioned, you'll likely end up with a P1/HW45 sooner or later, anyway!

Happy shooting!! 

[Brazos]

I own a 75 and have never shot a 45.  I had a real hard time with my decision and agree you can't go wrong either way.  I will have a 45 one day.  Enjoy your new 75.  It's a great pistol.