This Is What Can Happen.....

[bstaley]

From what I can hear the poppet in my hipac isn't spring loaded. If it were you wouldn't hear it clicking when the unit is shaken end to end. The pin on my 13ci tank does the same thing when shaken while empty, click-clack click-clack, and it ain't spring loaded either.

I stand corrected.  I just opened up one of my hipacs and the type of washer that is used between the spring and check valve leaves a little room for play.  It retains the check valve but does not actually force it closed all the way.  So a controlled release of air via the fill hose should be possible.

No guarantee that all hipacs are created equal though!

[Gerard]

From what I can hear the poppet in my hipac isn't spring loaded. If it were you wouldn't hear it clicking when the unit is shaken end to end. The pin on my 13ci tank does the same thing when shaken while empty, click-clack click-clack, and it ain't spring loaded either.

I recall just a short time ago how you were nervously trying to make your HiPAC seal properly, asking for help on CAF, apparently not understanding that there was a seal inside the valve which usually fails when high pressure air (not lower-pressure CO2) is used, wondering about what poppet to get to replace the broken one... etc. And there's nothing wrong with that. But you did display considerable reluctance to even open up the various parts of the airgun. Which makes me smile a little when I read that you shook it and it rattled, ergo there is no spring. You don't bother dismantling it to look, and to see that yours has what EVERY HiPAC ever sold has, namely a great big spring in the front section which closes the valve. I'm trying to be patient with this comment... but then earlier today I noticed you'd posted this comment on Alex's 'forum' (where he only posts positive comments):

Don't worry, Alex. Just like with the boys in blue, i got your back.

So you can see how it might be a little bit difficult to take your comments seriously regarding the HiPAC. As with Lloyd and a few others in his little Network54-hosted clubhouse, stating your undying affection for Alex kind of makes it difficult to take you seriously.

Gerard earlier you stated that you drilled out the Cros valve to get more volume. I read where it said not to use the Boss valve for HPA because of the thinner wall created when it's drilled out. You started that unscrewing the hipac it didnt bleed and thhe air stayed in the tube. I've done it several times and it worked fine. Maybe you unknowingly plugged all the holes and the valve also expanded because of the thinner wall you created. Once the pressure was released the valve calapsed a bit and able to drop out like nothing happened to it, the valve. Seems to me you may have created your own Boss valve. I looked into the Boss valve just because PM recommended not using it for hpa. Guess he should have added, bon't make your own either.

As stated earlier, I removed just barely enough brass to take away the threads which Crosman cut into it. Actually there's still a trace showing, but only barely, as I polished it down carefully. Anyone who has worked with brass will no doubt be familiar with the fact that a given piece is only as strong as its thinnest part. The valleys of those coarse threads were the weakest part. I removed only 'passenger' brass, the threads themselves which contribute nothing or very close to nothing to the rigidity of the piece. In my particular 2240 the brass valve body is a fairly close fit. It seems from various other postings I've read in the past year that quite a few are more sloppy than this, but mine just barely moves up and down the main tube. I polished the inside of the main tube using 0000 steel wool on a dowel spun in a drill, making it a bit smoother than factory. The fit remained very close after this. So it seems at least a little bit plausible that a seal could be generated by the valve body itself expanding under the relatively enormous pressure of 2,200psi, comparing to the standard 850psi of CO2. And of course a situation such as I encountered would never be relevant with CO2, as one just unscrews the end cap to release CO2 pressure if needed. Just as I did with the HiPAC, only at close to 3x the pressure of CO2.

I have looked at what a Boss valve means, both back when I was considering options for the build and just now. This picture is popular:

http://www.alchemyairwerks.com/uploads/1/7/3/1/17313740/s124734459505808862_p130_i1_w359.jpeg

This shows an EXTREMELY thin brass wall on a Crosman valve. I have not done anything like this. What I did was to remove the threads, only, leaving approximately double the wall thickness shown in the photo. So despite your insinuation, no doubt in hopes of helping Alex's case regarding the difficulties I encountered with the device, what I did is nothing close to the extreme modification which he is recommending users not use.

[Gerard]

No guarantee that all hipacs are created equal though!

No, they most certainly are not. I ordered 2 HiPAC units at the same time, one for a friend. I sent him the one with the nicer inside finish. Mine has never rattled, so perhaps the washer configuration is slightly different somehow, as in mine the spring pushes the aluminum rivet firmly closed against the seal material. Had to polish the inside face of the front though, as it was very rough and wouldn't seal with the harder urethane until it was smoothed.

[BigTinBoat]

You don't bother dismantling it to look, and to see that yours has what EVERY HiPAC ever sold has, namely a great big spring in the front section which closes the valve.

Might want to look at the post just above yours.......

[chekbone]

I read, I read, I read, I comprehend, i try and i learn, extreemly quickly, sometimes to a fault and not a tinker. I'd rather read about it and ask how than to try it myself. Understand? And yeah, I got his back. Heck, i got your back too if you're in the right. Last time I was here asking a question about the striker changing mod - thanks Bob - you took that post on another path by putting his name in it. Gip even called you on it saying you do it in almost every post about hipac. So yeah, with bad attitude like yours when a guy can't respond, i got his back. Dump on you and you can't respond, i got yours too. Now here you are doing it again. Once i finally got an OK to try the striker mod i stayed off of here for a couple of weeks because of that mess. I was able to read forum post without reply and learn on my own, waisting less mental energy. And yeah, I took it apart. Put it back together, shook it and heard nothing. Blew air into it and the pin went in. Shook it at the ground and the pin didn't move. Blew into the exhaust end and the pin went outward. Shook it and still no clicky-clacky. I would have thought the pin had pressure on it. Nothing but oo much silicone on the pin. But back to the jest, let it go.

[Gerard]

Steven; either you're confused or just being confusing in the way you write these things, but I'm at a loss now as to whether your HiPAC goes "click-clack click-clack" or makes no sound. Which is it? Are you saying you later put in "too much silicone" or that there was too much previously, causing it somehow to make noises? Mine came with no silicone grease, was dry except for the dense red-brown matter with metal shavings stuck to the inside of the extension tube. Does Alex ship them with silicone grease now? Or did you add it at some point?

Whether or not you 'have his back' is of no consequence, and certainly has no bearing on any potential legal actions (which I seriously doubt will be undertaken by the guy with the hole in his thigh, as his actions were responsible for the injury, it was not caused by the HiPAC being in any way flawed as pertains to his setup) as you would not be called upon in any legally relevant role. Unless you secretly witnessed something to do with the video... did you? It's all well and good to be a fan of someone, but please, let's try to be rational about the situation. The product itself is not without flaws, and on his 'forum' Alex pretends it is perfect. If I point out that inconsistency and mention various failings of the product in an airgun forum I am attempting to provide a service in the form of potentially valuable advice to other enthusiasts. If Alex were to bother upgrading the quality of his product I'd be among the first to congratulate him publicly, but he doesn't bother, preferring to label his critics 'haters' and worse, routinely besmirching the reputation of Bob Sterne among others for example by suggesting their ignorance is to blame when his product fails or falls short. This is laughable, immature behaviour.

[BigTinBoat]

Steven; either you're confused or just being confusing in the way you write these things, but I'm at a loss now as to whether your HiPAC goes "click-clack click-clack" or makes no sound. Which is it? Are you saying you later put in "too much silicone" or that there was too much previously, causing it somehow to make noises? Mine came with no silicone grease, was dry except for the dense red-brown matter with metal shavings stuck to the inside of the extension tube. Does Alex ship them with silicone grease now? Or did you add it at some point?

Whether or not you 'have his back' is of no consequence, and certainly has no bearing on any potential legal actions (which I seriously doubt will be undertaken by the guy with the hole in his thigh, as his actions were responsible for the injury, it was not caused by the HiPAC being in any way flawed as pertains to his setup) as you would not be called upon in any legally relevant role. Unless you secretly witnessed something to do with the video... did you? It's all well and good to be a fan of someone, but please, let's try to be rational about the situation. The product itself is not without flaws, and on his 'forum' Alex pretends it is perfect. If I point out that inconsistency and mention various failings of the product in an airgun forum I am attempting to provide a service in the form of potentially valuable advice to other enthusiasts. If Alex were to bother upgrading the quality of his product I'd be among the first to congratulate him publicly, but he doesn't bother, preferring to label his critics 'haters' and worse, routinely besmirching the reputation of Bob Sterne among others for example by suggesting their ignorance is to blame when his product fails or falls short. This is laughable, immature behaviour.

So looks like you feel the need to belittle (and argue with) everyone on this forum who has a difference of opinion from you......and you gotta get that last word in huh. Good way to get such an informative thread locked.

[oldgearhead]

I suspect the outcome of the events from this incident will be Crosman will add:
1) A relief hole in the tube.
2) An engraved warning near the hole.
3) A price increase of at least 10 USD.

[amb5500c]

More on the issue. Straight from the horse's mouth. Hope this clears up some stuff.
Richard

[bradyman1]

Crosman has no fault and no reason to give any warnings. People who choose to modify and swap parts of one thing with those of another (guns, jeeps, trucks, etc.) do so at their own risk under no influence of the manufacturer.

You can use a needle designed for diabetes for shooting heroin. It isn't the needle manufacturers fault you are a dumbass.

Richard thanks for posting that. I must say I admire the guy for posting this. He pointed out that he modified the hi pac. With all the bashing he has apparently taken it takes balls to get back out there and admit that.

I think Bob hit it on the head. Single valve screw failed, gun shot into ceiling breaking off hi pac. Bob definately knows his stuff.

[chekbone]

Steven; either you're confused or just being confusing in the way you write these things, but I'm at a loss now as to whether your HiPAC goes "click-clack click-clack" or makes no sound. Which is it? Are you saying you later put in "too much silicone" or that there was too much previously, causing it somehow to make noises? Mine came with no silicone grease, was dry except for the dense red-brown matter with metal shavings stuck to the inside of the extension tube. Does Alex ship them with silicone grease now? Or did you add it at some point?

I didn't notice the click-clack til well after i took it apart and siliconed the inners. I noticed that the black washer was concaved and the inside of the fill area was a cone, and clean. Made me wonder how the pin was held in place. A few days later, working on my gun I took it out and for no reason started shaking it and click-clack click-clack. Ah ha, now it click-clacks when empty so obviously no spring load.

[PBguns]

Just throwing it out there for you who don't have a hipac, I have had mine for a year or so and have used it about for about 40 fills now. It took me a solid 2-3 hours of work to get mine to even hold pressure when I received it. The machining looks like poop, but the hipac works. I had to face the valve side, it had a razor edge on it. Then had to experiment with different o-rings & tape the threads. Finally got it to hold pressure (not talking HPA....I'm only filling with co2)!

Mine came bone dry, some kind of metal shaving inside it??? (cleaned that crud out). Upon initial disassembly mine (like others have stated contained a Silica Gel packet inside). 

[BigTinBoat]

More on the issue. Straight from the horse's mouth. Hope this clears up some stuff.
Richard

"Modified" just as we presumed.....at least he had the gonads to admit what he did was wrong (working with it aired up)

[Bwalton]

[chekbone]

Hats off to Randy. What a way to show some class. No swimming for you for awhile. Hope that hole closes soon. That was a close-up to remember, but why no stiches?

[amb5500c]

On super deep injuries sometimes its better to leave open for drainage and to promote the healing from inside out.
Richard

[oldgearhead]

Hats off to Randy. What a way to show some class. No swimming for you for awhile. Hope that hole closes soon. That was a close-up to remember, but why no stiches?

Wound care was perfected near the end of WW1, and stiches were found to inhibit proper healing. Healing needs to occur from the inside out.
It involves several visits back to the hospital and possibly the use of a vacuum pump. Believe me, I know first hand.

[PBguns]

Vacuum pump???


Far as the video, I have to agree (way to take responsibility). Chalk it up to experience....and move on.  I'm glad he is doing ok.
I thought I spotted epoxy at the threads. Just didn't look right.

[Gerard]

chekbone; it is quite likely that you reassembled the washers in the wrong orientation. One of them is very difficult to get to fall in the right way around. If it's the wrong way the valve may still work as the washers prevent it from falling all the way in, but it will rattle when empty.

[rsterne]

Hats off to Randy for accepting the blame.... It's really a shame he missed the root cause of the failure, which was the single valve screw.... If he realized that, and considering the exposure his video is getting, he could likely save someone else from the same fate.... I see they admitted to gluing all the pieces of the HiPac together to seal them, by using Epoxy on the threads, and that would obviously include where it threaded into the gun.... So, we know for sure the tube was pressurized, because they shortened the HiPac to clear the front of the Disco valve....

The only thing that remains a question is why the HiPac broke in half.... We are assuming that was collateral damage from a collision post valve exit, and that was the likely cause.... The only comment I have is that the inner wall of the HiPac where the O-ring is, and right where it broke, is pretty thin.... It appears to be about 1/3 as thick as the diameter of the O-ring.... Not having a HiPac, I don't know what cross section that O-ring is, but scaling it from the photo in Bwalton's post above with the video link, I'm thinking it's a 0.070" (series 0), likely a #016 or #017.... which would mean the wall thickness below it is 0.030" or less, by my ESTIMATE.... I would be very interested in knowing the ID of the HiPac at that point, and the OD of the bottom of the O-ring groove.... Prehaps a moot point, though, since Gippeto tested it to 5,000 psi....

BTW, you can't bleed spring-loaded Fosters by cracking the bleed valve slowly, the spring causes it to close as soon as the pressure drops a few psi....

Bob