This Is What Can Happen.....

[Poorman Plinker]

Seems the Airguns World people are not going to come clean as they are are focused on the "deep pockets" of the Hipac guy.
First they say they did not mod or cut the hipac and now they drilled it out??? They used my pic above and put a red mark on the male threads that join the the hipac to the main tube of the gun and called that the weak point. They like to use the word exploded but then say the hipac separated from the gun at the threads as a single unit and the remains of the threads are in the main tube.

I like that biblical adage that the truth will set you free. But, we in the airgun community will never hear the truth of the matter.

[WHITEFANG]

Commend sence would tell one that drilling anything with a step in it takes away material Esp at a parting line of the step od being smaller.
Horizontal parting lines as imperfections in a horizontal are always areas in the Grey on metal vs vertical indications. The step thickness had to be calulated for integrity vs the thicker. Or should have been. Removal of any material period changed the integrity of the complete part.JMO💥

[nervoustrigger]

If the guy genuinely intends to bring suit against Hipac, I hope he has something substantially more compelling than has been presented in the video.  Taking apart a pressurized vessel and then blaming the manufacturer when something erupts is not likely to go in his favor.  If it had happened in normal use, it might be a different story. 

Also, the fact they acknowledged the gun had been "falling apart" for the last few days plainly says they knew something was wrong with it but still decided to take it apart with it pressurized.

Again, maybe they have something more but right now based on what has been presented to the community, it just looks like a tragic accident. 

I do wish the gentleman a full and speedy recovery.

[vigilandy]

Seems the Airguns World people are not going to come clean as they are are focused on the "deep pockets" of the Hipac guy.
First they say they did not mod or cut the hipac and now they drilled it out??? They used my pic above and put a red mark on the male threads that join the the hipac to the main tube of the gun and called that the weak point. They like to use the word exploded but then say the hipac separated from the gun at the threads as a single unit and the remains of the threads are in the main tube.

I like that biblical adage that the truth will set you free. But, we in the airgun community will never hear the truth of the matter.

I wish I was on a PC so I could read the FB page properly!  Amazing how these guys think they can modify a HiPak to work in a way contrary to the design and then blame the manufacturer....  Welcome to modern society folks!

[WHITEFANG]

I just watched the test video Bob posted. Very good demo.
One thing I did catch this time is going back to the incident video, on the final frames of the part in question? There appears no sheared of attachment bolts in the valve? Which is clearly a questionable indicator vs the test demo that clearly left behind the material in the hold down section?⚠

[BigTinBoat]

There appears no sheared of attachment bolts in the valve?

The reason is that they only used a single screw and it was in the valve directly opposite the exhaust port, so that portion in laying on the table in the video.

[WHITEFANG]

Thanks for the pointing out of this. Forgot they had the 1 attachment?  I had just watched the test video.  Got caught up in the moment. SORRY!
I guess they have photos of the shear I must to have forgotten or missed.
I still would like to hear a guess of the  front of valve assembly missing anybody as it exited? I guess LUCK?
MUCH assumption in this scenario? Esp with parts coming out of both ends? Leaving this alone. The better educated can continue on and I will just read after this post. Just was curious?
Thanks all.

FANG
JUNKYARD AIRGUN'S

[Gerard]

Front half? The valve remained intact, the entire assembled valve shot into his leg. Things didn't come out both ends of the tube. The tube went one way, the valve went the other.

[BigTinBoat]

I still would like to hear a guess of the  front of valve assembly missing anybody as it exited?

Listen to the end of video where he says the gun was "in his lap".

The way I "picture" him working on it in my head is that he is sitting in a chair with the hammer end of tube resting on his thigh right where the valve entered it. He has his left hand on the back side of tube holding it and applying pressure (inwards) towards his right hand. I picture him applying this pressure as the screwdriver would be in his right hand and he is putting extra pressure on it as he is having trouble removing the "stock" (front grip frame) screw. He is having this trouble as the valve retaining screw is already starting to shear (due to the tube being pressurize from improper installation) and the valve has moved rearward putting pressure on the screw he is removing. Due to the extra extensions he has to hold the tube at an angle away from himself. As he gets the screw farther out, it's just like putting the trigger back, then bang it goes off. Valve into leg, rest of tube/hipac out of hand and into ceiling where the Hipac "breaks" off due to the impact into the ceiling.
Thankfully he had those extra extensions on it or I picture him having the tube deeper into his "lap" with the tube right in front of his chest so that it would be in his "power zone" and he would be able to use much more force on the screw.......and the Hipac would have been pointing up directly under his chin.

[WHITEFANG]

Got ya! Reread all again. Thanks for the info.
So that complete valve assembly was in his leg.
The tube and HiPac rocked on, then the hipac and tube seperated somewhere with impact.
Much clearer now. Thanks again. I guess I am in a senior citizens moment?
No more questions or commets your honor.

FANG

[nervoustrigger]

I have a general question that crossed my mind previously and Doug's post reminded me.  Something that has been mentioned several times is that a Hipac seals against the valve face, whereby significantly reducing the force pushing against the valve as compared with pressurizing the whole tube.  I assume this to be a seal which, like any other, can be expected to fail...not if but when.  Lacking any sort of overpressure release (burst disc) doesn't this mean every Hipac conversion needs to be assembled in such a way as to safely handle pressurizing the tube?

Maybe the design intent is that they are to be built with this potential (probable) failure in mind.  I just haven't picked up on that in what I've been reading.

[vigilandy]

Lacking any sort of overpressure release (burst disc) doesn't this mean every Hipac conversion needs to be assembled in such a way as to safely handle pressurizing the tube?

I've had the CO2 cart vent before from a bad seal and the gas just escapes around the valve because it's not sealed like the Disco valve used in the video.  Of course this is much lower pressure than someone using 2-3k fill in a Hipac. 

I've seen a suggestion posted somewhere that the safer thing to do would be to drill a decent sized hole in the tube just in case...

[TPL]

There is no risk if parts are used as designed. Valve body is not sealed to tube and there are two threads to leak out in case of seal failure, grip front screw and hipac thread. They should never be sealed. That tube is not designed to hold any pressure.

[nervoustrigger]

Okay, thanks for clearing that up, guys.  I was definitely picturing the valve sealed to the tube.

[TPL]

That was exactly the fatal mistake here, disco valve is sealed to tube and they must have sealed hipac thread too in order to keep pressure inside, as I understand it.

[rsterne]

^X2, combined with a single screw which failed, resulting in the valve becoming a projectile.... I still have no idea why the HiPac broke, leaving the threaded inner portion inside the tube.... unless it collided with something after it became a rocket....

Bob

[TPL]

I'm pretty sure it collided somewhere as they were indoors... That must have been so unexpected, violent and sudden event that they just can't understand what happened in which order.

[WHITEFANG]

Again many thanks for all the clirifcations. I am still new with the PCP in many ways. Got plenty of them and have had more.
I have been inside many of them Esp the MROD. Having a huge background in pressure vessels and more pressure retaining equipment I am just trying to picture all of this.
This is the BEST place for explaining.  So sorry if I am in left field at times.
But many of us are in the same boat looking from the outside.
Thanks all for your help and patience !!👻💀

FANGSTER
JUNKYARD AIRGUN'S

[Gertrude]

^X2, combined with a single screw which failed, resulting in the valve becoming a projectile.... I still have no idea why the HiPac broke, leaving the threaded inner portion inside the tube.... unless it collided with something after it became a rocket....

Bob

Bob,

Do you think it is possible that they may have had the different threaded extensions ? I.E.- essentially having them "Cross-threaded together ?

example might be,... they initially had an "older" Hipac unit, that had the "coarser" original threads,....

 ... but then maybe (?) they had purchased some of the "newer" Hipac extensions (?),... that have the "finer" threads.

I do know that "Newer" Hipacs have "finer" threads, than the older Hipacs had.

 What I dont know, is how much finer or coarser those threads are... and if it might be possible to thread a "newer" extension, onto an "older" extension/unit.

Hipacs website specifically states that the available extensions are ONLY for the "finer" threaded models.

I just dont know if a person was so inclined,... (or) oblivious to the different threads,... if they might be able to get them to "fit" together, (cross-threaded together).

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Perry "BigTinBoat" Mason,
I believe you got it .  Randy, as we knew all along, is guilty of negligence , but gets an "honorable mention" for trying to warn and make an example of himself to the airgun world.
Kirk