Educate me on the best old pumpers

[gk10]

I need a quick history lesson on what the best old school pumpers are.
I've got a Sheridan blue streak but l'm craving more and need to know what the good models are so l can keep an eye out.
I'm mainly interested in the more powerful .22 cal ones.
I have a friend who should be able to organise the importation from the US.

[Habanero69er]

If your friend can find one, the made in Racine, Wisconsin Benjamin 342 is one of the great .22 pumpers. Walnut stock, tough as nails internals & Steroidable (if that is a word )too.

[bgmcgee]

The St. Louis Benjamin 312's are a great gun. Keep an eye out for Crosman 140/1400's also they were made right and shoot well.

[avator]

Yep, that's about the best of the best right there.... unless you can get your hands on a Super Grade.... good luck with that.

[bbv13]

Don't overlook the early Racine and Bloomfield 397's and 392's with the push pull safety and stamped metal trigger guard.

I have a later 392 with the Crosman trigger and walnut stock that's a tack driver.

My advice to you is? When you find a good deal on a Benjamin rifle that has a walnut stock buy it and figure out what it is later.

Bryan

[north country gal]

Another vote on the Bloomfield 392/397 with stamped metal trigger guard. Our 397 delivers PCP accuracy.

[gk10]

Thanks guys, there's a few there that l didn't know about and l've now got a list to research.
My original plan was to get him to buy a new Benjamin 392 and get it Sterioded, but the hit a miss nature  of the current quality control has me worried. Is this still worth a go and how long is the Steroid turn around time as l might have to spread it over two of his yearly trips.

Obviously if l can find an early 392 it's an easy option.

I really like the compactness of the 342.

The Crossman really intrigues me as l never knew these even existed and l like it's looks. Are these any good as far as power and build quality as l'm tempted.

Cheers

George

[Habanero69er]

 You should probably contact Tim at Mac-1 He could tell you for sure the turnaround time on having whichever airgun you buy steroided. 

[Jeff Marshall]

Crosman made many different high quality blued steel and wood 22 caliber guns from the 1920's to 1980 or so.

http://www.crosman.com/discover/crosman/crosman-product-dates

[bantam5s]

If you have a real SHERIDAN ( pre.
 Crosman)  than other than the super grade, you already have the best right there.    As far as pumpers are concerned you wont get much extra power in .22 over .20 because .20 is the perfect compromise between pellet weight,velocity,energg
Y, and accuracy.   So while you may want another gun for your collection, you wont really be getting a better one.   there's a reason why a lot of kids had to settle for a much cheaper benjamin instead of the SHERIDAN that they really wanted.

[Rob112o]

Few decent deals on the classifieds right now:
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=106296&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=6

http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=106245&adSort=&StartingAd=50&NumberOfPages=6

http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=106215&adSort=&StartingAd=100&NumberOfPages=6

On airguns.net classifieds do a search for Jim Evans. He's usually got a ton of American pumpers.

[avator]

Few decent deals on the classifieds right now:
http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=106296&adSort=&StartingAd=0&NumberOfPages=6

http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=106245&adSort=&StartingAd=50&NumberOfPages=6

http://www.airguns.net/classifieds/show_ad.php?adNum=106215&adSort=&StartingAd=100&NumberOfPages=6

On airguns.net classifieds do a search for Jim Evans. He's usually got a ton of American pumpers.

I agree. I bought 3 guns from Jim in the past 1 1/2 years. All 140/1400. altho I've resealed a couple, he's been honest, fair priced and fast shipping. He gets a ton of them. He told me that he buys in lots to get the one gun he wants then sells the rest after some cosmetic work.

[DavidS]

Crosman 101
Crosman 102
Crosman 140
Crosman 1400
Sharp Innova
Daisy 922
Sharp Ace

Just to mention a few.  I hope this helps.

[Rob112o]

I still don't know where this dude is getting these guns by the masses. It's ever 2 weeks he's got a different lot of rifles. Did he buy an old crosman plant years ago and just rummaging thru old rooms as he gets spare time? I got 1 140 from him needed a lot of work to get it shooting again. I'm actually in the process of cleaning it up the stock after owning it for 6months now. For 80 bucks it wasn't a bad deal.

[TerryM]

No one has mentioned the Crosman 110 and 120.  Only made for a brief period in the early 1950's, they are not seen for sale as often as others.  Simple design, not much to look at but durable and hard hitting.  I have a 110.  It is very accurate.

[avator]

I still don't know where this dude is getting these guns by the masses. It's ever 2 weeks he's got a different lot of rifles. Did he buy an old crosman plant years ago and just rummaging thru old rooms as he gets spare time? I got 1 140 from him needed a lot of work to get it shooting again. I'm actually in the process of cleaning it up the stock after owning it for 6months now. For 80 bucks it wasn't a bad deal.

I talked to him awhile back. He told me he went to estate sales and guns shows. He's managed to get his name out and he gets calls when deals are found. But like I said, he may buy a whole lot to get one gun that he wants. He usually only reworks the wood and leaves the guts to the buyer if it shoots at all. Altho I've seen a few that he posted as resealed.

[19Sheridan57]

I have owned numerous older Sheridans over the years & their quality is , in my opinion, above the rest. I have never owned a " steroided " version as I feel it has plenty of power & accuracy from the factory. I like some of the older Crosman pumps, but don't care for the models with the safety that is through the stock.

[gk10]

If you have a real SHERIDAN ( pre.
 Crosman)  than other than the super grade, you already have the best right there.    As far as pumpers are concerned you wont get much extra power in .22 over .20 because .20 is the perfect compromise between pellet weight,velocity,energg
Y, and accuracy.   So while you may want another gun for your collection, you wont really be getting a better one.   there's a reason why a lot of kids had to settle for a much cheaper benjamin instead of the SHERIDAN that they really wanted.

Yes, mine was built in 1971 and l agree that it's a beauty and l was lucky to get it.
 The problem is it's too nice and l am forced to leave it alone. In a perfect world, l need another one and then l could get that Sterioded.

I also have a Sharp lnnova that was not in the best shape, but its definitely worth saving. I'm currently getting ready to rebuild it with a heap of new parts. I would love to get a Sharp Ace, but l have never seen one for sale.

I find myself craving for more of them.

[TimmyMac1]

Thanks guys, there's a few there that l didn't know about and l've now got a list to research.
My original plan was to get him to buy a new Benjamin 392 and get it Sterioded, but the hit a miss nature  of the current quality control has me worried. Is this still worth a go and how long is the Steroid turn around time as l might have to spread it over two of his yearly trips.

Obviously if l can find an early 392 it's an easy option.

I really like the compactness of the 342.

The Crossman really intrigues me as l never knew these even existed and l like it's looks. Are these any good as far as power and build quality as l'm tempted.

Cheers

George

Some good advice being given. The earlier the better when it comes to the .20 cal Dans. The .22 are a different story. The 342's made after 1978 all have the Sheridan internals so the capability for Steroid is there. I feel the nicest set-up is extended Billet Steroid which is $185. The production of the 342 was moved to Racine and the higher sight line of the 342 from Racine meant it could take a Williams peep from '85-89 when the 342 production stopped. The transitional 392's were made with Walnut stocks and they were very good examples of .22 Benjies. Racine 342's are always a great find and all are walnut. The weakness of this platform was the factory Inlet which was prone to getting blown up anytime someone oiled the air inlet. The other .22 version is the new trigger pack 392's made thru about 2004 when they stopped using Walnut and went to the Sycamore wood. I think all the guns with the slanted cut between forearm and butt are all the pallet wood. They certainly fitted a weaker and weaker lever till the levers and links were unuseable for Steroids.
So the more recent the gun the more they will require major parts. The modern gun needs lever, link, front plug, intake and exhaust, custom piston and trigger work bringing the modern guns up to very close to $200 to Steroid. Just make sure the gun is a shooter B4 you decide you want it to last forever. Some are not worthy. The more recent the more likely they will have accuracy issues. The guns made in Racine are almost always good but the After 2013 guns are suspect and the ones made with aluminum valves need that assembly pitched and replaced with Brass.
Steroid turnaround is about 2-3 months on average with the modern guns getting done a little quicker because they are easier to get cleaned up. My tendency is to do Steroids about every other month and when you send it will have a lot more to do with when it comes back in terms of how long it will be after yours arrives that I do a batch.
MY shop set-up is Job shop so when I do a given model I do all of that model and then switch the shop over to another model. Right now I need more parts to do Dans and Benjies so when those arrive the batch will begin. I'll be about 12-14 weeks behind when I start the process and probably more like 4 months by the time I get all the guns done. Guns that show up in the next week or so will maybe make it in this batch and maybe not. I always get way behind this time of year because September is a killer and we get next to no business during that month. I always use it to play catch-up and try to get the total repair work done by the end of September to be ready for holiday demand.
When a gun is 60 years old and we are talking about making it last another 60 a 60 day wait is gonna be the deal breaker for some. It normally isn't when someone has already sampled or owned a Steroid. You can feel the mechanical superiority of the Flex free components creating greater air compression.
It is a far better value to fit better parts so the rebuild will last. As the factory has discontinued key components I have manufactured every one of them in a way that is better or matches the best they ever did. THis is all about the fact that Planned obsolescence is STUPID! Making Parts that will fail in short order is what Board rooms come up with because they are ignorant of what the American consumer wants.
They want to turn the clock back to when stuff could take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.
The consumer wants to find the old Dan or Benjy in the Folks attic and bring it back to its former glory or find a like model and do it to that.
Babyboomers can afford and definitely want their gun back they had in their youth. Making it better than  ever is the theme we see time and time again. Just like I restored the Racing Triumph I rode to College in the 70's people want to bring back pieces of there world that brought great joy and memories of hunting with the Multi pumps. For me the trips to the Canyons to shoot AG's with my cousins are great memories never to be forgotten.
One of the projects inspired by that time was the QB which I did for Shanghai Airgun in 1991 which is the copy of the Sears 160 I shot when I was a kid. That became the 2 decade long best seller for them and put them in a position to OWN the Beeman Brand. That is the ultimate measure of Chinese success when the maker takes ownership of the US distribution company. CheckMate based on Quality while the USA pencil pushers push quality down to help the Chinese along. What is wrong with this picture?
Why does American stuff need to be made Lousy? For Corporate Profit in the SHORT RUN! STUPIDITY by the board with a short term profit perspective rather than a long term sustainable theme.
USA makers need to start looking long term. Shortsightedness is what got the USA manufacturing sector in trouble and the way out is quality. The price needs to be high enough to be profitable making Quality goods smart. We need to realize what we had in the 60's was special and we need to focus on making the teens as good as the 60's was. Dumbing USA made stuff down to be price competitive with the Asian goods will NEVER work because we make far too much per hour to be producing rubbish.
American made should mean something again. It should mean "bring your best so we can show you better!". Airguns by Ruger, Colt, Winchester, Remington, S&W, Beeman, Luepold and Mac1. All Brands that have withstood the test of time but only a few have stayed in the Quality Game. I tried as hard as I could to talk Ruger into helping me make the LD under the Ruger Badge but they didn't want to become an AG company for real. Instead they just wanted to cash in on the Name. American names that have not sold out are few and far between. I find that a huge failure of the American companies due to shortsighted management that resulted in the devastation of the American manufacturing sector.
Long term perspective is never going to come from a board focused on the next 1/4's results. Next decade maybe, but next month, no way.
As for output FPE .20 is going to max out at 22FPE and the .22 maxes out at over 25FPE and a lot more heavy pellets to choose from than .20 cal.

TimmyMac1

[Habanero69er]

Amen!