Best value tuning parts brands for hw97kt

[ballasteve31]

Hey guys,

I have a hw97kt at home and its almost due to be pulled down, cleaned and reassembled with some better parts and some more appropriate lubrication...

Now the real question, is as far as i can gather i have 3 main choices for the parts...

-Maccari kit through ARH (used maccari bits in my gamo big cat and was stoked with how it all went)
-Vortek kit (never dealt with them)
-V-mach kit (also never dealt with them)

my main aim is to smoothen the firing cycle out further, and to quieten down the shot cycle as well. However we dont have any restrictions for 12fpe etc here so i dont wish to lose too much power, as its very effective against our local critters at this level. So looking at the Vortek and JM kits offered with spacers to adjust power levels etc seems like the best bet to me, but feel free to correct me 

Keen to hear your opinions and previous experiences, also if there's any other decent part suppliers ive missed.

Cheers, Steven

[Motorhead]

For the coin spent ... minimal fussing around .... VORTEK gets my nod.  There customer service and a person to speak with should issues or general questions occur is priceless !

[ballasteve31]

Thanks for your reply Scott, because i live in Australia good customer service feels like a good thing for me to keep in mind in case of issues... I will certainly keep vortek in mind... (id already have bought one of their in house tuned hw30s if it werent for Australia's tight gun laws lol)

Cheers, Steven

[BenjiHunter]

Vortek!
Turned my HW97K into an even better gun.

[ballasteve31]

2 votes for Vortek - looks like things are heading in that direction lol.

[wimpanzee]

My only aftermarket experience with this type of thing has been vortek'ing my R9, and it went great, and 0 complaints here.

I'm about to tear it back down tho, after a thousand or so shots, I'm down from 16fpe to 14fpe...

[robertr]

 I have a Vortek in my 350 mag., working good. No spacers with mine, unless you count the two inside the tube behind the spring.

[JimL911]

I've tried both JM and Vortek in a couple of guns and promptly removed the Vortek from both. I find JM kits to have a smooth shot cycle and find Vortek to have a snappy cycle.
My 77 in .20 is doing about 15 fpe and very smooth.

[grauhanen]

Vortek and Macarri both make good products.  So, too, does V-Mach.

[ballasteve31]

Cheers for the replies guys it sounds like a tough decision to make haha.

After looking at the pricing of v-mach kits and the current weak Aussie dollar im thinking that one is out of the question, it will cost more than the 97 did lol.

[Petey]

I've tried both JM and Vortek in a couple of guns and promptly removed the Vortek from both. I find JM kits to have a smooth shot cycle and find Vortek to have a snappy cycle.
My 77 in .20 is doing about 15 fpe and very smooth.

+1

[anuthabubba]

They haven't called Maccari "The Springman", since the '80s, for nothing.

[nced]

My only aftermarket experience with this type of thing has been vortek'ing my R9, and it went great, and 0 complaints here.

I'm about to tear it back down tho, after a thousand or so shots, I'm down from 16fpe to 14fpe...

Hummmm....Vortek springs still sagging rapidly? Years ago I put an early version of a PG2 kit and VAC seal in my R9 and the initial velocity was a much too high (for my liking) 960fps with 7.9 grain CPLs. I broke down the R9 and replaced the heavy thick steel top hat with a home turned one that gave less preload and got an acceptable (to me) 910 fps with the 7.9 grain pellet.

This worked perfectly for a short while (perhaps a thousand shots) and I started noticing a poi shift. The chrony showed that the 910fps velocity had dropped down to about 880fps so I broke down the R9 once again and replaced my home made top hat with the original that gave more spring preload and the velocity again went to 910ish fps. After about 1500 more shots I again noticed a shift in the poi and the chrony showed 880ish fps. With less than one case of CPLs down the tube in 3 months the velocity went from a too high 960fps to 880fps (80fps drop) so I pulled the PG2 kit and reverted back to home tune kits based on the Maccari offerings I used for years.

Actually, the lower velocity of 880fps with a CPL is a good workable velocity for a R9, however the issue wasn't the velocity but how rapidly the spring sagged compared to what I was using previously. LOL.....a couple decades ago when I owned a Beeman R10 I put in a Maccari kit and stopped counting empty pellet boxes and tins when the shot count was 25,000. The R10 started shooting CPLs at 910fps with the Maccari kit and after 25,000 shots the gun still chronied about 910 fps. To date I've never had a Maccari spring sag, but they have indeed broken after a couple 10s of thousands of shots! I'm currently using the last of my favorite Maccari spring (I bought several years ago and squirreld 'em away) consisting of 34 coils of .120 wire wound with a .540 id and was hoping that I could get a similar spring from Vortek since Tom does offer a spring with similar properties as the ole Maccari E1500 (no longer available).

Tom at Vortek gives top notch friendly customer service and did offer to replace the PG2 kit but I declined because I really didn't want to break down the R9 three times a year to service "sagging springs" if the offering I received was "normal" and not an anomaly. I spoke to several Vortek kit owners at field target matches and more than a few had "sagging issues" like me so I do know that my situation wasn't "rare".  I do wonder if the "relatively rapid spring sag" was the result of the fact that Tom needs to use a spring would with the small ID necessary so the spring would fit in the outer guide, and perhaps one of his custom springs with a larger ID would hold up better for the long haul if used with a simple tight fitted internal guide and top hat like I've used for decades.  Perhaps I need to buy a Vortek spring with approx a .540id/.120 wire/& 34 coils which is similar to my favorite old Maccari springs. Perhaps that would be the solution to replacing my current spring when it "lets go". The reluctance I have however is the thought and expense of breaking down my R9 several times a year to replace springs!
Here are a couple pics of the early PG2 kit and VAC seal I used. In the "early days" Tom didn't close the spring ends but I do notice that he advertises his springs do have closed en polished spring ends. Notice the thick heavy steel top hat..........

Another issue I had with the earlier R9/HW95 was that the cocking shoe actually rode on a spring liner. To install the PG2 kit I needed to remove the spring liner to make room for the PG2 "outer guide" and then I noticed that the edges of the R9 cocking shoe was shaving away the plastic outer guide as this pic shows......

This issue was solved by rounding & smoothing up all the cocking shoe edges that rode the guide. After the cocking shoe smoothing I had no further issues with "outer guide shaving". With the newer HW95/R9 redesign the cocking shoe rides the edges of the cocking shoe slot rather than the piston liner so the cocking pressure would no longer be applied directly to the "outer guide" so perhaps the "outer guide shaving" is no longer an issue! Pic of new HW design cocking shoe riding the receiver cocking shoe slot.......

LOL.....it's been lubed with non-dieseling "one lube for all" Dupont Krytox.

Anywhoo......a few years ago there was a "squirrel hunter" posting a report of the longevity of his PG2 kit and he was making claims that he was getting several 10s of thousands of shots from his PG2 kit "with no loss of power". This really puzzled me because this was at the same time my PG2 lost 80fps with less than 5000 shots! If there any here than can verify at least 10,000 shots without a Vortek "spring sag" I would like to read about it. If I could get 10,000 shots from a spring in my R9 or HW95, at least I could go a full season without the need for a "re-spring"! With the Maccari offerings and the way I tune (12.5-13.5fpe) I get several seasons of service before the spring "lets go".   
 
 

[wimpanzee]

I noticed a poi shift, which led me to re-chrony, where I discovered my lost power. I started out shooting JSB 8.44 at 930 or so, which I thought was about perfect. Now they are in the 880's, with the 10.5gr dropping way down to around 770, which is a little disappointing. But it is still accurate, at least!

Perhaps I'll get a maccari kit and see how that fares.

[ballasteve31]

Thanks for the responses guys, I think im going to place an order for the Maccari stuff again

Cheers, Steven

[nced]

Thanks for the responses guys, I think im going to place an order for the Maccari stuff again

Cheers, Steven

I just did a research on my PG2 kit woes and found that the kit was bought and installed in Oct 2010 and I did get 2500 consistent shots from my R9 shooting 7.9 grain CPLs at 905-910fps, however, the velocity did drop to 880fps between shots 2500 and 4000 when I "retired" the PG2 kit in Jan 2011 (about 3 months of shooting).

As mentioned...that was an early PG2 kit with the unclosed spring ends and heavy steel top hat so I just ordered a new spring (spring only, no kit this time). It was a ".118 Wire 770/775 OD spring with 34 coils" and I'll be testing the spring when it arrives to see if the metallurgy/heat treating of the Vortex springs has improved. When I'm used to getting a couple years use with the Maccari offerings it was a bit of a downer to only get 3 months service from a $80 spring kit from Vortek!

The issue with the Maccari springs at this time is that the my stash of E1500 springs I squirreled away is about gone (working with the last one now) and Jim doesn't offer a spring with a similar .540 ID. Tom at Vortek does offer springs that are similar so if the new spring works well I'll have a source for springs similar to what I bought years ago. I've "bad mouthed" the PG2 springs on the internet since 2011 so perhaps it would be good to risk another $25 (spring price plus shipping) to see if the quality has indeed improved over the last few years!

[JimL911]

ED look at the E3200. Right ID. Add a shim?

[nced]

ED look at the E3200. Right ID. Add a shim?

Perhaps that would be an option, however with a geometry of "32 coils, .110 wire, ID .540 inch" I really wonder if I can get even 12fpe output with the R9 and CPLs.
Hummmm.......I do have a practically unused HW95 spring and the geometry is 34 coils, .122 wire (about 3mm), ID .550 (about 14mm) and I do know that with the factory spring it's difficult to get the CPL velocity UNDER 880fps. Still.....perhaps the .110 wire Maccari offering would be an option to try in the future.