The Truth About Cleaning Air Gun Barrels

[rsterne]

What about Hoppe's #9 and a bronze brush?.... How will that work on lead, and will it eat the O-rings?....

Bob

[William]

HaaHaa
You mean I can't eat pancakes during my shooting sessions?
Darn...
I don't think there are O-rings in all airguns. Solvents can affect breech seals too. Careful or not.
Tom has good info here. For certain airguns and certain usages. But use what works for you and your style.
I do and am happy with the results I have always gotten.

You right, but most do have O-rings. And as far as the pancakes nobody should go without the best meal of the day regardless of what time of day it is lol.

I agree on the doing what makes a person happy and what works for them, I have tried just about everything on the cleaning side of things, right or wrong it seems to work!

Now that I think about it, the maple syrup might just make a good bullet lube lol

William

[ezman604]

Now that I think about it, the maple syrup might just make a good bullet lube lol

William

Syrup and lead residue. To lick or not lick the fingers....that is the question.

[Meann-Machine]

Do nothing.  When your air rifle starts to loose accuracy, box it up, send it to me and I'll "fix" it, charge you $50 plus shipping and handling, and send it back to you.

[William]

What about Hoppe's #9 and a bronze brush?.... How will that work on lead, and will it eat the O-rings?....

Bob

Excellent Question Bob, ... I do believe it is safe on O'rings,

Straight from Hoppe's Web site..

"No. 9 Synthetic Blend Bore Cleaner
Hoppe’s No. 9 Synthetic Blend Bore Cleaner is especially designed for the modern firearm and is built on the great tradition started by Frank Hoppe in 1903.

Superior removal of carbon, lead, and copper fouling
Safe on anodized aluminum, titanium, steel, chrome, nickel, plastic, polycarbonate and rubber
Same great traditional Hoppe’s 9 smell
Biodegradable / Non-flammable"

http://www.hoppes.com/bore-cleaners/no-9-ultimate-synthetic-bore-cleaner

William

[William]

Now that I think about it, the maple syrup might just make a good bullet lube lol

William

Syrup and lead residue. To lick or not lick the fingers....that is the question.

Thanks for the laugh, not sure why but I can just see myself sitting on the shooting bench and fingers heading toward my mouth lol

William

[1216bandit]

interesting read and topic!  I clean my air rifles fairly regularly.  The ones that shoot great continue to do so...the ones that are just OK are still just OK. So I guess the moral of the story in my case is, routine cleaning has kept them shooting the way I expect them to shoot.  Waiting till accuracy goes out the window is waiting too long for a cleaning.

[sixshootertexan]

Ok here's my addition to cleaning. First I think the quality of the gun makes a difference in how one would clean it. The cheap Crosman and Gamo barrels will be more jagged and leave more lead bits behind. A hard metal brush could scratch them up but not a nylon one. I don't own any of the higher end guns but you would think the quality of the steel and machining would be way better. That means less leading. I believe power levels have a hand in this too. I noticed my 600fps guns did not seem to get as dirty as fast as my 800fps gun and I shoot the slower guns more. IMO the faster harder hitting guns push the skirts deeper into the grooves allowing more lead to be deposited into the pores. One of the best things I have done was use J-B Bore Bright  in all my guns and now they stay clean a lot longer. I can just use a few patches with Goo Gone and they are clean. I stay away from chemicals that could harm orings. If you use to much of a cleaner on a PCP/CO2 style gun it could also get down into the valve and eat away at the poppit.

[rsterne]

One of the best things I have done was use J-B Bore Bright  in all my guns and now they stay clean a lot longer.

^X2....

I lap a new barrel at least 100 strokes with J-B Bore Paste and then finish up with Bore-Bright.... Further polishings with Bore Brite (10-20 strokes) after cleaning just make it better and better, increasing the time between cleanings....

Bob

[K.O.]

Fire lapping the Crosman barrels with auto  rubbing compound is my Sch-tick-

Schtik?

 

[grauhanen]

It's small wonder that there is confusion about cleaning air gun barrels.  For years some dealers and their spokesmen (e.g. Straight Shooters, and Airguns of Arizona, among others) have recommended airgunners avoid using metal brushes, while others (e.g. Pyramyd) have said bronze brushes are okay to use on steel barrels.  Some of these eschew the use of bore solvents as they are said to be harmful to seals and orings. 

To further muddy the waters, 10 meter match airgun shooters seem surprisingly less fastidious about barrel cleaning, rarely cleaning them or removing lead and using felt pellets or possibly even patches when they do clean them.  Apparently they never, ever use bore solvents, and when they do use something to restore life to a troubled bore they may use something like VFG Bore Cleaning Compound (see http://www.waffenpflege.de/en/products-cleaners/accessories/bore-cleaning-compound.html).  It must be kept in mind that 10m air rifles and pistols are relatively low powered airguns and so may respond best to a different cleaning regimen than high powered guns.

Adding to the confusion, it is not common to hear of airgunners across the pond (in the U.K. and in Europe) using anything other than a pull through with patches and their cleaner/lubricant of choice (e.g. Napier Air Gun Oil, Ballistol).  The consensus there seems to be that a coating of lead in the bore is desirable for accuracy.  In fact reading threads about cleaning from U.K. airgun forums leads to the conclusion that many U.K. airgunners rarely clean the barrels of their air rifles.  Of course, it must be remembered that the vast majority of our friends on the other side of the Atlantic shoot air rifles that don't exceed 12 fpe (that's about 800 fps with an 8.44 grain JSB Exact .177 pellet) and thus they may have different cleaning needs.

In the New World, we don't labor under the same power restrictions as U.K. shooters with a 12 foot pound energy limit or 10m match shooters (who simply don't need much power for accurate shooting).  Canadians who may be limited to sub-500 fps probably don't need to worry too much about frequent bore cleaning.  Perhaps cleaning requirements for full powered air rifles are more rigorous and demanding.  Maybe they do call for the removal of leading from the bore and brushing the barrel with bronze brushes and bore cleaning solvents.

In any case, it might be well to bear in mind that different airguns have different cleaning requirements.  High power air rifles may well need a different cleaning regimen than airguns that produce lower velocities.

[oconeedan]

One of the best things I have done was use J-B Bore Bright  in all my guns and now they stay clean a lot longer.

^X2....

I lap a new barrel at least 100 strokes with J-B Bore Paste and then finish up with Bore-Bright.... Further polishings with Bore Brite (10-20 strokes) after cleaning just make it better and better, increasing the time between cleanings....

Bob

Bob, do you apply the J-B bore paste to a patch and pull it through, or do you have a mop that you go back and forth?

[Papa Smurf]

Well said grauhanen , very well said . After many thousands of pellets thru my .22 Crosman Nitro Venom accuracy went away. Every thing I tried didn't work and the grouping kept getting larger . At the point of removing the scope and junking it , and thinking I had nothing to lose , I disregarded every thing I read on this and other airgun forums . I pushed a bronze brush thru five or six  times . This was followed with a few tight plain cloth patches . Now accuracy is back and better than ever. -------Good Shooting to you my friend-------John--AKA- Papa Smurf

[nervoustrigger]

do you apply the J-B bore paste to a patch and pull it through, or do you have a mop that you go back and forth?

Dan,

See these two excellent threads for more information, in particular the guidance offered by Motorhead and SeanMP:
J-B bore paste
Deburring riflings - JB Bore Paste

The short answer is you want to go back and forth, working from the breech end, polishing progressively less as you near the muzzle.  A smoothly rotating ball bearing cleaning rod is needed so the polishing action follows the rifling.

[oconeedan]

Thank you Jason. 
I was thinking I had JB bore paste..I was wrong, I have Iosso bore cleaner paste on hand.  Something else I'll have to get and try!

[rsterne]

I use the VFG cleaning pellets of the appropriate caliber, on a mandrel that screws into a standard 8-32 cleaning rod, and lap from the breech.... There are two mandrels, the larger for .30 cal. and up.... and they are long enough to use two pellets at once, which is what I do.... On a new barrel, I use the method suggested by Sean Pero, which is 100 strokes full length, being careful not to run the pellets right out the muzzle on every stroke (it happens occaisionally. which is OK).... I replace the Bore Paste every 20 strokes.... I then reduce the stroke about 1" for every 4 strokes, so for a 25" barrel the breech gets a total of 200 strokes, but the muzzle only the initial 100, with more strokes the closer you get to the breech.... Sean says this produces a very slight taper to the bore.... I then clean out all the grit, swab it with a couple of patches of solvent, then dry it, and switch over to the Bore Bright for the final 20 strokes, which leaves it gleaming smooth....

I now prep all my new barrels this way, regardless of brand, caliber, or projectile.... I think it not only makes them more accurate, but it takes longer for them to foul.... When I see leading (which usually shows up near the muzzle first) I swab out the barrel with Hoppe's #9, dry it, and then give it 20 strokes or so with Bore Bright, which puts that shine back on it.... Sean says that lead builds up in micro scratches in the bore, and eventually it goes longer, sometimes much longer, between cleans.... Whether the lead fills the scratches or you just eventually polish them all out with the Bore Bright I don't know, but the cleaning intervals do seem to increase over time.... I shoot almost all my guns in the mid 900s, so haven't noticed any difference in how they lead relative to velocity, but it makes sense that the faster you shoot, the quicker they will foul up....

Bob

[TCups]

Interesting to see this post today.  Before I ever saw it, I decided, yesterday to truly clean the barrel on my Theoben Crusader .20 cal in preparation for doing some testing on head-sized 20 cal pellets for my brother.  The Theoben is 7-8 years old, has never been cleaned, and still shoots accurately, by the way.  But it doesn't get "heavy" use.  I suspect, conservatively that it has maybe 2000-3000 round down the bore.

For those who don't regularly shoot and clean powder burners, there has been a big shift in the world of gun cleaning solvents in very recent years.  There are a number of new products out there that are water based rather than petroleum based, and a number of new "synthetic" CPL (cleans. lubricates, protects) all-in-one products.

I have recently purchased several to try and gone throng my collection, doing some very thorough cleaning, with good results.  I have settled in on two products that seem to do a very good job with the added benefit that they don't drive my wife crazy with "that awful smell".  These are M-Pro 7 cleaner (http://www.mpro7.com) and Slip 2000 EWL (https://www.slip2000.com/slip2000_ewl.php).  There are many others out there -- FrogLube, BreakFree CLP, etc.

Pulled out my old Beeman cleaning kit, a cable pull through with both a small (1-inch long), bronze .177 and .22 brush that could be screwed into one end and a fixed, slotted patch puller on the other end.  Hmmm, so Beeman sells bronze brushes to clean Beeman air rifles -- Who knew?

Anyhow, I took a plastic coated 177 Dewey rod with a  .177 wool bore mop, sprayed the bore and soaked the mop with M-Pro7, let it set about 5 minutes, then pulled first the .177 brush (useless, too small) and then the .22 brush which didn't seem overly tight) through from breech to muzzle 3 times.  Then I mopped  the bore again and let it set another 5-10 minutes.  Then I began pulling dry patches till they came out clean.  Then, I put several drops of Slip2000 EWL on a patch, pulled it through, let it set over night, and pulled a couple of dry patches through.  None of this resulted in much visible lead or grime being removed from the barrel, though.

I test-fired 2 Beeman FTS 11.2 gr pellets over the ProChronograph, clocking at 747 and 751 fps, or about 14 FPE for the gas ram air rifle.  Then I set the Theoben aside and sorted some pre-weighed Beeman FTS pellets to test today.

Here is the email I sent my brother late last night (early this morning, actually) regarding my plans for today's pellet testing:

____

Jerry:

Too beat to blog tonite.  Cleaned the barrel of the Theoben Crusader .20 cal tonite with M-Pro 7, a mop on a .177 rod, and pull through brush and patches patches on a Beeman cable cleaner.  Shot a couple of rounds through to see if there would be any hint of dieseling after cleaning with a non-petrolium based cleaner.  As expected, none.  Two Beeman FTS .20 pellets out of a weighed partial tin of Beeman FTS pellets marked 11.18gr (weighed on a Gem Pro 50 digital scale) crossed the ProChronograph at 747 and 751 FPS, so that’s  14 Ft-Lb out of a gas ram .20 ga air rifle.

Decided I’d sort the rest of the partial tin of pellets for head size:



The first 50 pellets had what looked to be a bi-modal head size distribution.  Wondered if they might be from two different manufacturing dies.  Remembered your comments about a fellow who used a Dremel grinder bit, hand held, to take the edge off his pellet gage.  Looked at that and decided I’d try, instead, just using a felt tip Dremel polishing buff and some Flitz metal polish to make sure that there wasn’t a burr on the 5.07 mm aperture.  After polishing the gage, I sorted the remainder of the pellets.

Notice also that I took the plastic bezel of the pellet gage and interposed it between the steel gage and the protective plastic aperture to make a “stand off” that would guide the pellets, centered, into the gage when I dropped them.  This resulted, IMO, in a much more reproducible go/no go measurement.  The problem of then getting the pellet to drop back out of the gage once the head passed through was pretty easily solved by using a Q-tip to guide the skirt end of the pellet back out of the gage.  Pretty quick way to do it, actually.

I then sized the next 50 or so pellets (I confess I haven’t yet counted) through the polished gage. No tendency to measure the pellet head size, overall, as “smaller” after polishing the apertures, and no change in the apparent bi-modal head size distribution.

The test pellets will be the 5.06 mm and 5.08 mm pellets, all of uniform 11.18 gr weight.  Testing, over the chronometer for uniform velocity, for 5-shot group size will have to wait for a while.  I feel very confident that I got good sizing results and that the sized/weighed pellets should perform well, compared to 5-shot groups from un-weighed, un-sized 5-shot groups from the same lot (I have two sleves of these pellets from the same lot, most unopened).

I should stop to count so the data will be compelte . . .

First group, un-polished pellet gage, size (mm)  -  weight (grains), n=49

5.05 - 3
5.06 - 19
5.07 - 5
5.08 - 12
5.09 - 10

Second group, polished pellet gage, size (mm)  -  weight (grains), n=53

5.05 - 1
5.06 - 18
5.07 - 4
5.08 - 19
5.09 - 10
5.10 - 1

So, it looks like I have 102 x 11.18 gr test pellets with 3 dominant groups:
37@ 5.06 mm
31 @ 5.08 mm
20 @ 5.09 mm

Uniform weight didn’t predict uniform head size.

More later.

_____

The story continues . . .
This morning, I decided to shoot some groups for accuracy, comparing pellets straight from an un-operned tin of Beeman FTS with the weight/head size sorted pellets from the same lot (I have two sleeves of these pellets as old as the air riflle).  Set up on my back yard bench at 30 yards around 9 am (already hot here in Columbia, SC) and pulled out a tin of unweighed, un-sized FTS .20 cal pellets to begin testing.  I was shooting the Theoben Crusader off a front rest and rear bag.



I haven't shot this rifle for groups in a while, and confess that the last few years, powder burners have dominated my target shooting, to the extent I actually get to do any target shooting.  I don't shoot on a regular basis.  The first 2 shots were way high, 3 inches over the target.  I re-zeroed the scope accordingly, by putting the rifle back on the rest and moving the scope adjustment UP until the cross hairs had moved from the center of the top/left bull to the approximate POI of the first two pellets.  I was then certainly pleased to see all 10 of the next 10 shots inside the target ring, with 9/10 tearing a single ragged hole and the 10th a definite flyer in the 2-ring, just barely cutting the 3-ring, at 4:00.  Not to shabby, huh?  Left target. Black bulls are 1 inch (these are 10-Meter targets).



Things then rapidly went down hill from there.  Only 9 of the next 10 shots hit the paper -- two are in the center target's outer rings, 6 sort of group in the top/right target with only one in the bull, and one is at the edge of the paper to the right of the lower/right target!!!  Something's very wrong.  Checked the scope mounts - solid, not moving.  No obvious drift of the scope in the rings.  Tried 10 JSB Exact .20's at the lower/left bull.  Only 5 hit the paper. 

Here ended this AM's shooting session.  Took the Theoben inside, checked all the action screws and scope mount screws for tightness.  The foreshock screws were, perhaps, about 1/4 to 1/2 turn "loose" in that I could tighten them a bit.  All the rest were solid and tight.  Lunch and errands with the wife took me through until about 2:30 PM, when I returned to the bench and started shooting JSB's at the right hand target at 30 yards.  Shot maybe 50-60 rounds.  Couldn't get any to group better than 2 inches.  It *may* be that I need to re-season the barrel with some lead build up, or it may be that the Hawk AirMax has crapped out.  Don't know yet.  Mayhap I will swap out the scope and see what happens tomorrow morning before it gets too hot to shoot.

[larspawn]

Tom, which Shooter's Choice product?  I noticed there is a bore cleaner and a lead solvent.  Thanks

[TCups]

I suspect you were asking the other Tom, but for what it's worth, I've used the Shooter's Choice lead solvent for some time, with good results, on rim fire pistols and rifles.  It's also a staple of many rimfire bench rest shooters, in my limited experience.  If shooting lead bullets, like 22 rimfire or cast lead bullets in larger calibers, then there is no need for a copper solvent.  The lead solvents work best when used with bronze brushes.

On the other hand, if shooting copper clad rifle bullets, then I really like Butch's Bore Shine. The downside of any cleaner that includes copper solvent is that if used with a bronze brush, or even a nylon brush with a bronze core, then the copper solvent tends to dissolve the bronze, too, as it is a copper alloy.

As for protecting the seal, if in doubt about a solvent, then a dab of silicone grease covering the seal will protect it.  You can find it in dive shops or on amazon.com  -  )  --  Just wipe off the excess after you finish. 

What actually needs cleaning from the bore of springers and gas ram air guns, and I suspect much less so with PCP's, is the tar-like residue that accumulates from minute amounts of lubricant on the back side of the piston seal that, with each stroke, make their way from the wall of the compression chamber into the compression chamber gas.  When the piston fully compresses the air, it superheats the compressed air and burns the lubricant, dieseling, but in a very limited (and normal) way. 

The thing I usually worry about the most, when "seriously cleaning" rifles with an array of chemical solvents cleaners and lubricants is getting something  on the coated optics of a good scope.  If you don't have good scope covers, and don't want to dismount the scope for every cleaning, then you can buy non-lubricated custom latex scope covers in the family planning section of any drug store.

[Smoketown]

Be careful “mixing and matching” your cleaning products!!

Although most are safe when used alone, not all of them are compatible with each other.

Certain combinations of cleaning/preservation products will actually remove bluing and cause pitting in steel barrels.
(Not to mention the funk that will grow on aluminum or copper based parts.)

Keep the ‘families’ together – I.E. -  Hoppes/Hoppes, Outers/Outers, Iosso/Iosso and Butches/ Butches.


Cheers,
Smoketown