The Truth About Cleaning Air Gun Barrels

[QVTom]

LOL, that was my thought too.  The CM or 416 SS from Bartlien will both make excellent barrels.  I'd go SS due to it's ability to mirror finish. Either will have superior mechanical properties compared to a LW AG barrel.

Tom 

[D14Jeff]

LW barrels for airguns are extremely soft.  I've learned this fist hand by machining enough of them to know.  Also, ask them about the alloy and condition and their response is always they are not heat treated and the details are proprietary.

Tom

i  know the .22 LW airgun barrel i cut took more effort than a .22 crosman discovery barrel . i'm sure the german steel airgun barrels are harder than crosmans barrels .... so i guess it depends on what brand of airgun barrel you're comparing it to ....

[Bwalton]

LOL, that was my thought too.  The CM or 416 SS from Bartlien will both make excellent barrels.  I'd go SS due to it's ability to mirror finish. Either will have superior mechanical properties compared to a LW AG barrel.

Tom

Tom I have never ordered a barrel before, so I gave them the same spec's as the LW barrels as far as twist bore, groove depth, and such for .25cal do you know of a better spec that I could try?,

[Bwalton]

response:
Baxter,

 

The standard airgun barrels are made from special carbon steel material.     It is pretty tough.   LW 50 is a stainless used in centerfire barrels.

 

Woody Woodall

 

From: Airgun Hunter Extreme Channel [mailto:hatsanextremehunter@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2015 12:39 AM
To: lotharwalther@mindspring.com
Subject: airgun barrels

[oconeedan]

I'll throw in one more variable, that would be very difficult to measure (but matters, I would think)...no matter what type steel is used in the making of a barrel, the creation of rifling will work harden the surface of the bore.  It doesn't matter if button rifled, forged, whatever, it will harden the surface at the very least.
If only a few thousandths of the surface of the bore is hardened, it will provide substantial strength and durability of the bore.  Measuring the hardness of the steel of the barrel itself, will not reveal the true hardness of the bore.
There is a lot of science at play, metallurgy is a pretty complicated science.  Variables that effect surface hardness are (but not limited to): metal type and it's content, method of rifling, speed of rifling, method of cooling and lubrication, etc.

I do understand that even if the bore surface is hardened, it can be wrecked with poor cleaning habits.

Dan

[Bwalton]

here is my final Q&A
Me:  Oh the main question can it be cleaned with a brass brush?
answer:
It can be.

 

Woody Woodall

[Tom SC]

Ive been cleaning the LGV with goo gone and nylon brush followed by dry patches for near a year now. Well yesterday I popped over to Cabelas and picked up some Shooters Choice and a bronze brush in 177. Cleaned once following the instructions and took it out back to see if there was any improvement in the accuracy which steadily had been going south after 4000 pellets or so. Set up at 40 yards,shot 5 on a cold gun and Good Golly Miss Molly put 5 under a dime. Thanks Tom I have my gun back and I am sold. You are the man 😀

[QVTom]

I'd like to say thanks to all that replied and contributed to this thread.  I was a bit nervous when DEz moved it from the Big bore gate the airgun Gate thinking I'd be accused of claiming the earth isn't flat.

My intent was to share what I've experienced with some of the accepted cleaning processes typically discussed. I used to use many of those practices and now have find them ineffective.  I'm not suggesting that anyone abandon what works for them but I believe the performance of the typical AG has increased over the years resulting in more fouling of the bore than previously thought or experienced.  This is very evident with a high performance big bore that is pushing a lot a bullet contact area at speeds up to 1050 fps. 

I've used both the Shooters Choice Super formula which is a general purpose and the lead formula.  Both have produced excellent results.  I'd think the lead formula is all an Airgunner needs but I have both from my PB days.

Common sense is always your best tool.  These products are very effective and very little is needed.  Although I've seen no o-ring issues I'd be careful not to let solvents run into your valves or compression chambers where they will do a fine job of removing the lubricants.  If you are nutty like me, you may want to remove your barrel altogether for a serious cleaning session.

Tom

[K.O.]

If a barrel is leaded up enough to effect accuracy I bet you can feel it if you push a pellet/boolit thru the bore... especially down at 20fpe with pellets  where I am...

My 1985 Daisy 953 started getting a bit off and goo gone did the trick and it was right back to its old self... so I do think even at low fps there is buildup especially on choked barrels... it just does not weld/stick as strongly as the heavy high fps rifles do...

also I will do everything I can to baby a brass barrel...

[oconeedan]

I'd like to say thanks to all that replied and contributed to this thread.  I was a bit nervous when DEz moved it from the Big bore gate the airgun Gate thinking I'd be accused of claiming the earth isn't flat.
Tom

And thank you for making this post Tom.  I have learned much.
Dan

[rsterne]

Here is what I meant by the VFG pellets and mandrel (adapter) that I use with J-B Bore Paste and Bore Bright....

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/cleaning-pellets/weapons-care-system-pellets-prod13839.aspx

Bob

[JonnyJalapeno]

Sorry for bringing the topic back, but is there any risk of damaging the breech/transferport seal with the brush? How should i clean the barrel then? Is there any sign that you've pushed the cleaning rod far enough to scratch the seal? So should i push the rod only up to the length of transferport/breech seal? Obviously im talking about PCP rifle. Maybe i got the PCP construction wrong, and there's no risk actually?

I heard some barrels are made from bronze or brass? I assume that brass/bronze cleaning tip would damage the brass/bronze barrel? Which material has higher hardness? Brass or Bronze? I have SPA PR900W/Diana Stormrider, does it have brass/bronze barrel?

[cosmic]

I believe that is where the "don't use brushes" came from .. Older barrel were  brass or lined with it..
1. I use Hoppe's ELITE FOAMING GUN CLEANER and a brush and it works well.. 
2. Kroil cleaning..
Lastly I use Frog Lube correctly...

[JonnyJalapeno]

I believe that is where the "don't use brushes" came from .. Older barrel were  brass or lined with it..
1. I use Hoppe's ELITE FOAMING GUN CLEANER and a brush and it works well.. 
2. Kroil cleaning..
Lastly I use Frog Lube correctly...

Do you brush all the way through -that you can see brush sticking out of breech/loading port?

[triggerfest]

I have red once about a guy that shot every now and then, in between cleaning his bores, some of those copper pellets and that seemed to help as well.

Thoughts ?

[cosmic]

I remove the barrel and brush from the breech.. Once I am past the chamber if there is a internal o ring I mark the rod with tape once past it.. Then a few strokes to the muzzle and back to the tape so you don't scrub the o ring.. I have my rifle vise with the barrel muzzle against the wall ..
That way the brush doesn't exit the muzzle
 If no o ring yes the chamber gets a few stroke but since is a looser tolerance not much lead there..
Now I am done with regular air guns and selling the 2 I have..  I have now turned my attention to the .30 Impact I have on the way

[subscriber]

If you use a new bronze brush of the correct size for caliber, trying to reverse the brush before it passes all the way through the barrel will take a lot of force. Some are concerned that the brush could damage the barrel due to the very high pressure on the bristle tips, as the bristles "flip over" on stroke reversal.

I understand the concern about pushing the brush past the muzzle, and then drawing the brush back in over the crown.  However, if the brush does not make it past the muzzle, how is the muzzle being cleaned?

If you are really concerned about the crown, the "right" thing to do it to fully exit the muzzle, then unscrew the brush on every stroke... 

The above assumes cleaning from the breech.  On many PCPs this is not possible, unless you remove the barrel completely.  That is not something one wants to do on a regular basis.  I think this is another reason why airgun barrel cleaning is deemed "no brush" territory:  Because people use pull throughs and can't get a long brush into the barrel from the breech.

Cleaning from the muzzle with a rod is considered bad.  It certainly has the potential to wear away the lands at the crown.  I think it is a matter of what your options are, and what immediate problem you are trying to solve.  Imagine if you had to strip down and reassemble your vehicle's engine every time you refueled it

Bottom line:  Use the least aggressive cleaning method you can get away with to prevent accuracy destroying metal fouling.  All airguns and all projectiles are not the same.  Figure out what your's requires and use that.  For instance, even mid-power springers can foul their barrels badly, if you shoot high antimony lead pellets.  The ideal is that very projectile scrubs off and carries out as much dirt as it lays down.  This seems more likely when shooting pure lead projectiles. Even slugs at 1050 FPS.

The "rules" and expectations may differ for .22 caliber slugs, compared to .45 (for example).  Other than the surface finish of the bore, the projectile fit in the barrel may be a factor.  The larger bores seem to work better with a projectile diameter matching groove diameter, or a few 0.0001" larger than groove diameter.  This, while the smaller bore seem to work better with slightly undersize slugs, compared to groove diameter.  If the slug does not contact the barrel groove diameter, it can't wipe off any lead onto it.  Rifling land height and profile seems to matter too.  Then there is the question of the choke; if any...

[subscriber]

Peter,

Your Stormrider barrel bore may be rough from the factory.  If it fouls quickly and is hard to clean; or simply looks dull, then it may benefit from being lapped with JB bore compound.  I have a Dragonfly (pumper version of Stormrider) that had a very rough bore.  I "fire lapped" it to smooth it out.  This resulted in a 26% increase in power.  The thread link below explains how. 

If you use this method, I strongly advise you not to overdo it, for reasons explained in the thread:  https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=155047.0

A more focused and controlled barrel improvement thread can be found here: 
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130555

[Gone Fishing]

I won't clean my rifles unless absolutely needed. I always do when they arrive, however.

[jmoronic]

So, I'm guessing acid wash and sand blasting is out of the question...