Benjamin Bulldog .357 misinformation.

[woogie_man]

I have seen people kill mature deer with a .22lr, and it dropped in its tracts.

Bottom line.....IF YOU DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT, THEN DON'T!  But don't tell me what u can and can't do just because you think you can't.  People that have hunted all their lives that have done more with far less.

[MicErs]

I have seen people kill mature deer with a .22lr, and it dropped in its tracts.

Bottom line.....IF YOU DON'T THINK YOU CAN DO IT, THEN DON'T!  But don't tell me what u can and can't do just because you think you can't.  People that have hunted all their lives that have done more with far less.

Once saw a soldier take a goat on the big island with a knife, a Gerber Mark IV if I remember correctly.  Wasn't pretty but he jumped from an overhang about fifteen feet to the goat... sooo...  It was as humane as you can do with a knife.  He walked away.  The goat?  We ate him.

[Tofazfou]

We are in a new era.  Not only with kick butt airguns available now, but in our thinking of what it takes to kill game.

The OLD DAYS: Lets take any High Powered rifle round.  Lets say 30-06.  Slip in a Soft Point round.  Now shoot a deer at 75 yards through the lungs.  The round slips through (too easily) the ribcage (which are NOT TOUGH at all and are thin) and penetrates both lungs.  The deer kicks and runs off a 100 yards and expires.  Now, did he die from the 2800 FPE impact (not factual either) or did he die because he SUFFOCATED?

The NEW DAYS:  Lets take the puny 170 FPE 357 cal airgun shooting hard NOSLER BT and launch one into the same deer example given above (lungs at 75 yards)  The deer does the same kick and run and he collapses also at whatever range.  Lets also say 100 yards.  Now, did this deer die from the 120+ FPE (guesstimate) or did he die because he also SUFFOCATED?  Believe me, he wasn't shocked to death by the lowly 120+ FPE.......lol!

The answer is easy, both animals died because their lungs had a hole in them and they suffocated.  This simple bit of knowledge should be more accepted and understood than what it is.  People know it, but they still believe that this shot has to happen with a ubber powerful gun making 3000 fps.

The OLD DAYS:  In this case, the shooter would now go buy a 300 Winchester Magnum because he believes the 30-06 isn't powerful enough (yeah, this is a REAL EXAMPLE).  Not only that, but he now wants heavier bullets (180-200 gr instead of 165s) going even faster because that equates to MORE FPE which in his mind equates to a QUICKER KILL.  He thinks the deer ran too far and that the 06 is inadequate.  This same hunter would then next year shoot another deer with the new 300 Winch through the shoulders and complain that all the meat is destroyed......................DUUUUUUUH!

The NEW DAYS:  This hunter is satisfied because we have now come to a better understanding that it doesn't so much take all out FPE then it does HITTING/PUNCTURING the vitals. And lets all please understand that fact that it takes FPS to give an object FPE so both are needed.  He would then next year become very confident that his airgun is sufficient to get the job done.  Heck, he too might buy a more powerful airgun such as a 45 cal.  Just for the heck of doing it.  But he is still using an airgun.  But he knows his 357 can take deer.

We have found over time that it takes roughly 6 FPE at the Point of Impact to kill a squirrel and that it will more than likely penetrate both sides of the skull.  IT DOES NOT TAKE A 17 HMR or 22 LR or 22 MAG or 223 or even the lowly 22-250 to do this.  Airgunners work with a minimum amount of FPE and a maximum amount of accuracy to get the job done that we need to get done (hunting game efficiently).

No animal/man/insect/mammal/fish can survive a BRAIN/LUNG/HEART PUNCTURE!  Not EXPLOSION, but, PUNCTURE!  Our thinking of 2000-3000 FPE to kill a deer or hog is so Neanderthalic (no insult intended).  Yotes IMO are much tougher than DEER and i've lung shot them and they run the same as if I'd done it with a 223.  The end result is that they die cause i hit the vitals with enough energy to penetrate.  I've even broken the spine with a 257 airgun shooting bullets and it penetrate through and through and he died pretty quickly.  Not because my airgun made 1500 FPE (it doesn't) but because i did SEVERE damage to the spinal chord and the major vein that runs along its path (accuracy).  Deer flesh around the lungs area is super thin and we have been led to believe that it takes massive amounts of power to penetrate this area (not true at all).  A airgun can also penetrate both shoulders (BONE to BONE).  I've even killed a nice little piggy with my 7mm airgun that makes only 235 FPE.  The shot was high in the breast of the hog and it penetrated the top of the heart and exited the lung/rib cage.  Again, the projectile had enough FPE/FPS and accuracy to make the kill and the bullet still penetrated over roughly 15" of pig.

In this argument, i think its more that the OLD WAYS OF THINKIN just don't want to accept fact and change.  We are still discovering the limits of airguns and their effects on game....................

[MicErs]

We are in a new era.  Not only with kick butt airguns available now, but in our thinking of what it takes to kill game.

In this argument, i think its more that the OLD WAYS OF THINKIN just don't want to accept fact and change.  We are still discovering the limits of airguns and their effects on game....................

You have done a very good job of explaining reality, Obi Wan.  Thank you.  A .243 doing 2750 fps with hollow point is just about the ticket for that lung shot.  It will open a hole so big the deer can't breath to run...  You won't get any ribs from that deer though.

Really your post really says it all.

The most telling shot you can take on a deer with a broad head is side on just a couple of inches behind the elbow.  Clips the heart and the lungs at the same time.  Any deer hit that way will stop as fast as if shot by any rifle, except maybe a .50 cal.  The heart bleeds into the chest cavity and the lungs are sucking that up.  End result sudden death.  As humane as you can do it with a bow.

[Nomadic Pirate]

If I was to hunt Deer with a BullDog I would use the 82gr or 93gr EPP/UG.

The BullDog isn't really a 200 FPE gun, those are Hollywood figures.

The Bulldog shoots the 82gr EPP/UG and the JSB pellet at 900 fps for a 150 FPE, the EPP/UG with the sharp front band will cut a nice hole into those deer lungs, as mentioned before deer is a pretty soft animal

[Airgun.Sniper]

If I was to hunt Deer with a BullDog I would use the 82gr or 93gr EPP/UG.

The BullDog isn't really a 200 FPE gun, those are Hollywood figures.

The Bulldog shoots the 82gr EPP/UG and the JSB pellet at 900 fps for a 150 FPE, the EPP/UG with the sharp front band will cut a nice hole into those deer lungs, as mentioned before deer is a pretty soft animal

 I agree. My rogue is getting about 165 fpe and deer rib are like tooth picks...