Benjamin Bulldog .357 misinformation.

[jaed.43725]

There are a lot of exaggerated claims out there about this new rifle. Some are claiming you can ethically take a deer with it. This is false as the .357 does not have enough impact surface for its speed to do so. It will take coyote with head shots and heart shots, and hogs under 75lbs. But even those you are really pushing it and relying totally on accuracy. If you see someone, business, etc spreading rumors about this tell them how they are wrong.

And they are also misleadingly calling the pellets bullets. This has been discussed in depth in these forums and it is concluded that they are pellets no matter how big. Because its fired from an air rifle, not gunpowder.

This gun should not be used during normal hunting for anything larger than a raccoon or nutria. It would be great for squirrel.

[Geoff]

the 200 FPE claimed is inaccurate I take it

"The Benjamin Bulldog delivers consistent five-shot groups of nearly 800 feet per second (FPS) and with a stunning 200 foot pounds of energy (FPE) when using the Benjamin eXTREME™ airgun 145 grain hunting bullet by Nosler®. "


200 is not enough for a deer ?  I have no idea as I don't hunt am just curious.

[Airgun.Sniper]

 I dont agree with what your saying unless the gun delivers no where near 200 fpe. I own a benjamin rogue and have seen it and have taken deer, hogs, and other game with the gun. The rogue is the same caliber. I have seen it taken out and have taken out game animals in 100 yards and under...with airguns its all about shot placement, and when taking a doe down I have plenty of energy and no my gun. Same thing for a hog shot placement is key. All headshots taken in the ear.

 EDIT: Ian Halford has taken big game in africa with the gun in africa. I dont believe you have your facts straight. Again, shot placement is key

[jaed.43725]

This is why I said ethically hunting anything larger than a coyote, and even then you must have perfect shot placement. 200fpe on any distance you can shoot a deer in the wild is not going to cut it. Its because its 200fpe at the muzzle. By the time it travels 40 yards to a deer its much less than that. The issue is that when it gets to the deer or yote is that it will not have enough energy to expand the pellet or not completely penetrate. It may go in a deer or pass through a yote, but you just put a hole in the animal and it will run off.

A proper air rifle for deer is going to be .45 or .50.

[mobilehomer]

"Nuff said!

[UCChris]

I disagree. A .25 Mrod has been used to ethically take deer. The Bulldog has plenty of power for a 30 yard headshot.

[jaed.43725]

"Nuff said!

Those videos are heavily edited. They dont show you the guy that shoots the animal with a .308 right after. If it were someone like Teds Holdover doing it, then it would be legitimate.

[jaed.43725]

I disagree. A .25 Mrod has been used to ethically take deer. The Bulldog has plenty of power for a 30 yard headshot.

Not ethically. With a very very precise headshot yes it can. This has been discussed many times. I once suggested you could hunt a yote with a .25 magnum springer. And someone showed me all the technical data. And it just wouldnt work. Thats the same as this bulldog. It has a nice niche market for things like bobcats and skunks, but thats it. Realistically this gun should be looked at as being an amazing squirrel gun.

[RatRacer]

Those videos are heavily edited. They dont show you the guy that shoots the animal with a .308 right after. If it were someone like Teds Holdover doing it, then it would be legitimate.

This statement totally validates this thread.
And the supporting data/links is a big help too....

[maraudinglizard]

This might put things in a little bit better perspective. White Tail does average about 90lbs to 120lbs. Deer can be very destructive to residential areas and farms. This video was taken in Alabama where they now allow .30 cal. or larger air rifles to be used to hunt deer.

[MicErs]

There are a lot of exaggerated claims out there about this new rifle. Some are claiming you can ethically take a deer with it. This is false as the .357 does not have enough impact surface for its speed to do so. It will take coyote with head shots and heart shots, and hogs under 75lbs. But even those you are really pushing it and relying totally on accuracy. If you see someone, business, etc spreading rumors about this tell them how they are wrong.

I don't think so, they are not wrong.

And they are also misleadingly calling the pellets bullets. This has been discussed in depth in these forums and it is concluded that they are pellets no matter how big. Because its fired from an air rifle, not gunpowder.

We try really hard to avoid a couple of terms,  because of that if I say them they cause issues.  Bullets are bullets.  If you shoot them from an air rifle they are still bullets.  Maybe you should review the H&N Rabbit Magnum and tell me if it is a bullet or a pellet?

This gun should not be used during normal hunting for anything larger than a raccoon or nutria. It would be great for squirrel.

My .177 Diana model 36  that shoots about 14 foot pounds just kills the heck out of squirrels at the ranges where I can hit a marble.  Killed a young ground hog from about 25 yards this spring and he did not move an inch from where I hit him.

I don't think you understand how air gun hunters operate.  I don't think you know what you are talking about.  Suppose I had a high end .22 rifle that could shoot dime sized groups at fifty yards.  Suppose I decided that the only shot I would take was a head shot, quartering away at fifty yards or less behind the ear, from a rest, in a stand.  Would I be able to take that deer humanely?

That is the thing you are not getting.  Air gun hunters understand the limits of their equipment.  They know what they can do and they do what they know is possible.

You make the assumption that they will take poor shots.  I think you might be wrong there.  NO OFFENSE INTENDED... REALLY.

[MicErs]

Those videos are heavily edited. They dont show you the guy that shoots the animal with a .308 right after. If it were someone like Teds Holdover doing it, then it would be legitimate.

This statement totally validates this thread.
And the supporting data/links is a big help too....

I'd be happy to view the supporting data and links...

This really crosses a line.  You are saying that people who don't agree with you resort to shooting things with a .308 after they show you they have killed game with an air rifle?  Really?  Are you really going there?

[jaed.43725]

This might put things in a little bit better perspective. White Tail does average about 90lbs to 120lbs. Deer can be very destructive to residential areas and farms. This video was taken in Alabama where they now allow .30 cal. or larger air rifles to be used to hunt deer.

That goes perfect with what I said, that you must have an absolutely perfect shot with a .357 air rifle for something like deer. Headshots are preferred. Its the old adage of just because you can.

[jaed.43725]

There are a lot of exaggerated claims out there about this new rifle. Some are claiming you can ethically take a deer with it. This is false as the .357 does not have enough impact surface for its speed to do so. It will take coyote with head shots and heart shots, and hogs under 75lbs. But even those you are really pushing it and relying totally on accuracy. If you see someone, business, etc spreading rumors about this tell them how they are wrong.

And they are also misleadingly calling the pellets bullets. This has been discussed in depth in these forums and it is concluded that they are pellets no matter how big. Because its fired from an air rifle, not gunpowder.

This gun should not be used during normal hunting for anything larger than a raccoon or nutria. It would be great for squirrel.

I don't think you understand how air gun hunters operate.  I don't think you know what you are talking about.  Suppose I had a high end .22 rifle that could shoot dime sized groups at fifty yards.  Suppose I decided that the only shot I would take was a head shot, quartering away at fifty yards or less behind the ear, from a rest, in a stand.  Would I be able to take that deer humanely?

That is the thing you are not getting.  Air gun hunters understand the limits of their equipment.  They know what they can do and they do what they know is possible.

You make the assumption that they will take poor shots.  I think you might be wrong there.  NO OFFENSE INTENDED... REALLY.

I more than understand air rifle hunting. And I understand that the claims of this rifle are exaggerated. We can hunt deer with a .22 in NC. But its very very advised not to.

Its not the assumption that someone wants to make a poor shot. Its when things just dont work right. And say you miss that perfect head shot and only get some neck, then you have a bleeding running deer.

No offense intended on shredding your post....really.

[jaed.43725]

Those videos are heavily edited. They dont show you the guy that shoots the animal with a .308 right after. If it were someone like Teds Holdover doing it, then it would be legitimate.

This statement totally validates this thread.
And the supporting data/links is a big help too....

I'd be happy to view the supporting data and links...

This really crosses a line.  You are saying that people who don't agree with you resort to shooting things with a .308 after they show you they have killed game with an air rifle?  Really?  Are you really going there?

I will try and dig up some data. There is a thread here all about why a .25 springer should not be used on yotes. It has a lot of info. And notice they didnt show the head of the animal. Ya, a powder burner is why.

[dk1677]

 A reminder guys keep it civil or it goes

[jaed.43725]

There are a lot of exaggerated claims out there about this new rifle. Some are claiming you can ethically take a deer with it. This is false as the .357 does not have enough impact surface for its speed to do so. It will take coyote with head shots and heart shots, and hogs under 75lbs. But even those you are really pushing it and relying totally on accuracy. If you see someone, business, etc spreading rumors about this tell them how they are wrong.

I don't think so, they are not wrong. - They are only trying to sell a product. Thus they make outrageous claims, just like that 1500 fps .177 springer. Ya, think about that.

And they are also misleadingly calling the pellets bullets. This has been discussed in depth in these forums and it is concluded that they are pellets no matter how big. Because its fired from an air rifle, not gunpowder.

We try really hard to avoid a couple of terms,  because of that if I say them they cause issues.  Bullets are bullets.  If you shoot them from an air rifle they are still bullets.  Maybe you should review the H&N Rabbit Magnum and tell me if it is a bullet or a pellet? - It is still a pellet. A bullet is defined by being fired from a FIREARM using a cartridge. If you take the bullet out of a cartridge or round as its sometimes called and fire it from an air rifle, it is then a pellet.

This gun should not be used during normal hunting for anything larger than a raccoon or nutria. It would be great for squirrel.

My .177 Diana model 36  that shoots about 14 foot pounds just kills the heck out of squirrels at the ranges where I can hit a marble.  Killed a young ground hog from about 25 yards this spring and he did not move an inch from where I hit him. - Squirrels still run around a lot even after being shot with a .22 PCP.

[MicErs]

This might put things in a little bit better perspective. White Tail does average about 90lbs to 120lbs. Deer can be very destructive to residential areas and farms. This video was taken in Alabama where they now allow .30 cal. or larger air rifles to be used to hunt deer.

That goes perfect with what I said, that you must have an absolutely perfect shot with a .357 air rifle for something like deer. Headshots are preferred. Its the old adage of just because you can.

Really, it is not about "just because you can".  It is about what can be accomplished with minimal resources and someone willing to limit himself to doing the right thing by the game animal.

Let me relate a story to you.  When I was a child my step-dad bought me a bow.  I wanted one so badly.  I shot that bow for ten years.  Then  I got another and it was 30 pounds!  I shot that bow for a couple of years.  Then I was 14.  "What do you want for your birthday son?"  Well dad, I want that red wing hunter in the hunting club store.  So I had it.  I had my 43 pound pull, Red Wing Hunter.

"But Dad, now I want to hunt deer with my bow?"  Dad said that was idiotic.  Dad said you can not humanely kill deer with a bow.  Thankfully my friend's father was a Virginia Game Warden named Dupree.  That game warden took my dad to a 20 yard target.  He taped a dollar bill on that target and he told my dad, "Here is the deal.  Every time I hit George, you give me a dollar.  Every time I miss, I give you a dollar."  Two hours later he was still taking dollars from my dad.  True story.

That winter I killed my first deer with a 27 foot pound weapon at seven yards.  Before you judge, think about it.  People have taken game a thousand different ways.  It is the nature of man to be a predator with respect to other species.  Doing it efficiently is really important.  It is especially important it that game might escape.  My point there is that, If you know what you are doing, and you limit yourself to the proper use of your weapon, you can humanely take deer with a club.

[dk1677]

GTA RULE #-2- Please have respect for differences in opinions with your fellow GTA members on your forums. After all, the forum is all about opinions

[MicErs]

I will try and dig up some data. There is a thread here all about why a .25 springer should not be used on yotes. It has a lot of info. And notice they didnt show the head of the animal. Ya, a powder burner is why.

You know this because you were there?

Edited for a unallowable topic.

You can kill anything with an ice pick all you have to do is know how to use it.