Author Topic: Are springers bad? (Read 15703 times))

Meann-Machine · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:02:36 AM »

A springer was my first love and has remained as such, loe these past 35 years tarnished only by my subsequent and everlasting affair with her close cousin the gas-ram. Neither will I ever release so long as breath I can take.

lefteyeshot · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:05:22 AM »

Well said, Sir.

DOKF · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:21:52 AM »

Agreed

DOKF · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:31:56 AM »

Quote from: Kavin2845 on June 17, 2015, 11:24:14 PM

Quote from: DOKF on June 17, 2015, 11:13:50 PM
What ViperJack said ...

I have a mild preference for the Benjamin Trail series (NP2 and NP XL) ...
the NP2 looks nice, i noticed in your tag that you on the NP2 in .22 cal, what you opinion of it? and did you tune it your self? if so how?

The NP2 is my backyard goto gun. Self tuned; replaced seal, deburred, honed, buttoned piston, Tuna trigger, fitted pivot washers, Mo lube ...

Smooth cocking, smooth shooter. Much less recoil than stock RWS 350 / 460, or Hatsan Patriot, and very quiet compared to the latter guns.

The NP XL twins also had same treatment, and although slightly more powerful than the NP2, still smoother and quieter than the stock RWS 350 / 460, or Hatsan Patriot.

I also find the NP2 just a little lighter and slightly more ergonomic to shoulder.

.

Bryan Heimann · « **Reply #24 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:33:33 AM »

Another vote for Flying Dragon. Get an XS25 with the full tune in .22 cal.

nced · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2015, 09:35:27 AM »

Quote from: Kavin2845 on June 17, 2015, 08:32:25 PM

Ive heard people telling me to avoid using springers b/c their like really hard to use and not for beginners, is that true? also whats the difference between a gas ram and a springer? anyone better than the other?

as you can probably tell im new to all this, so take it easy lol!

My experience with springers is that I really like my .177 R9s but not so much any of the "cheap springers" I've bought in the hope of setting up an inexpensive springer with more than "can rolling" accuracy.

Even when shooting hunter class field target style (sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks) I can shoot 1"ish ctc 5 shot groups at 50 yards with my R9 like this........

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
And the next 5 shots on paper from the same "sit"........

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
A piston gun does require a consistent shooting form to shoot accurately, however once you can shoot a piston gun accurately the PCPs are relatively easy. Some better than average (for me) groups shot at 50 yards hft style..........
5 shots.......

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Recently shot 4 shots. LOL, was afraid that the 5th shot would have messed it up

....

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

How about 15 out of 20 pellets through a 3/4" killzone at 50 yards.......

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

For the "cheapies" I bought a Crosman Quest, Gamo440 (on sale), a BAM B26, and a Remington Express, all .177 cal. None would shoot better accurately than about 1" ctc at 30 yards, even after a LOT of rework and tuning but I do have to admit that the B26 was the "best of the bunch"!

My latest dabbling my toe in the shark infested waters of cheap springers was/is the Remington Express which has proven to be a major disappointment! The thing is a nice looking, nicely finished Chinese offering that seems to be a hybrid between the R9 and Diana34 but it has high cocking effort for mediocre output and the groups do wander around when shooting. Here is are a couple targets I shot at only 18 yards in an attempt to find an accurate pellet for the Remmy........

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Anywhoo......my .177 R9 springer is all I've ever needed (or even wanted) for all shooting being it field target matches, squirrel hunting, plinking or informal target shooting!

nced · « **Reply #26 on:** June 18, 2015, 09:37:25 AM »

Deleted double post!

AHMSA · « **Reply #27 on:** June 18, 2015, 10:47:22 AM »

Quote from: sfttailrdr46 on June 17, 2015, 09:01:36 PM

Springers are definitely tricky . The trick is only buying only one

+1

Springers are the airguns I shoot the most. I grew up shooting them and I continue to enjoy shooting them almost daily. Honestly, the hold sensitivity is not that big of a deal. When I buy a springer, I enjoy learning how it likes to be held during the break-in period. After you know how the rifle likes to be held, they are, in my opinion, the best air rifles you can shoot because you don't have to worry about external power sources and you don't have to pump them multiple times before taking each shot.

You don't have to spend a fortune if you want to buy a quality springer. Many options are available at reasonable prices. My $100 Crosman Optimus is one of my favorites and is a very accurate rifle.

degorovi · « **Reply #28 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:40:07 AM »

If you don't mind buying refurbished, Air Gun Pro Shop has the Hatsan 95 for only $99.99.

http://www.airgunproshop.com/product-category/hatsan-refurbished/breakbarrel-variants/high-powered/

For additional $49.95 you can upgrade to a 3-9X40 AO scope.

Meann-Machine · « **Reply #29 on:** June 18, 2015, 11:44:57 AM »

Kavin,
You mentioned earlier, "a bunch of you guys mentioned the Diana RWS 34, i have to admit its a gorgeous gun but a bit out of my price range": the question then is, "What is your price range?" I suggest that the number you come up with be, not what you would like to spend but, what $$$ could you pull together if you really had to, to spend on an air rifle. As is often the case with most things, there really is a difference based on price. There is a difference between a $125 and a $1,000 air rifle. I suggest you get the best rifle you can afford. Once we know what your top price is we can make meaningful suggestions to you and perhaps point you in the direction to get an air rifle you will be satisfied with.

palonej · « **Reply #30 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:03:38 PM »

Little more info needed Kev.
Budget, including glass.
What type of shooting and what distance.
BUDGET!!
Are springers bad???
If you want to spend $80 and shoot 1/4" groups at 70 yards with a plastic rifle touting 1800 fps......yup!! They are REAL bad!!!
Call Mike at Flying Dragons bro!!
Good luck!

Kavin2845 · « **Reply #31 on:** June 18, 2015, 12:34:52 PM »

Quote from: palonej on June 18, 2015, 12:03:38 PM

Little more info needed Kev.
Budget, including glass.
What type of shooting and what distance.
BUDGET!!
Are springers bad???
If you want to spend $80 and shoot 1/4" groups at 70 yards with a plastic rifle touting 1800 fps......yup!! They are REAL bad!!!
Call Mike at Flying Dragons bro!!
Good luck!

Really sorry guys, my top dollar would be $200 and looking to shoot up to 50 yards, birds to small game, I really should have mentioned this before

Jaximus · « **Reply #32 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:10:20 PM »

For hunting I really like the gas ram. With a spring gun you have to wait until you know you're going to take a shot to cock the gun. With field target or something like that it's not really a problem, but a lot of times when you're hunting it doesn't work out so well. A gas ram you can cock and leave cocked for the duration of your hunt and for me personally, that's kind of a big deal.

It does seem that the very high quality gas ram guns are very expensive, though (compared to the Crosman guns). For your budget you should be able to get a Crosman/Benjamin nitro-piston with a modest optic and be effective within 30-40 yards. The NP2 would probably work out quite well for you.

Meann-Machine · « **Reply #33 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:15:27 PM »

Look Here for the rifle:

http://flyingdragonairrifles.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51

YOU WANT TO ORDER IT WITH THE BASIC TUNE!

Look here for the scope:

Have fun.

anuthabubba · « **Reply #34 on:** June 18, 2015, 01:33:17 PM »

" With a spring gun you have to wait until you know you're going to take a shot to cock the gun."

Not so! Have shot springers outdoors for 35+ years and walked around with 'em cocked and ready for the shot with no spring weakening. With a 'quality' spring, there is no real damage or weakening from leaving them cocked for an hour or so. You might not wanna leave one equipped with a 'softer' metal spring ($50 to $100+) cocked for very long though.

Can-o-cide · « **Reply #35 on:** June 18, 2015, 02:02:19 PM »

The key is having one good Springer. I have an umarex surge that I paid almost nothing for. I put a Hawke 2-7x32 scope that outlived a poor hatsan striker 1000s (terrible gun, lasted 6000 shots). It took about 1000 shots to fully break in and for me to learn how to hold the gun. There is one stock screw that will come loose every tin of pellets or so, no matter how much loctite I put on it. Is it a pain? Yes. Does it make me wish I hadn't bought it? No. Does it group well? Absolutely! I routinely shoot the primers out of empty shotgun shells at 25 yards. Cloverleaf groups.

I think 95% of people who buy a Springer will not like them, and of the remaining 5%, about half know how to shoot them well and the other half don't care. The only problem that springers have in general is the unrealistic expectations people have when they buy them. A little knowledge, maintenance, and common sense is all that is needed, but the majority of consumers are lacking these. The majority of consumers are expecting to be able to prop the gun in a closet, and pull it out a couple times a year to get rid of a possum eating their cat's food or something.

if a person will likely shoot no more than a tin or two of pellets in their lifetime, then a Springer is not going to be a good gun. If a person wants a Springer to target shoot on the cheap and maybe do some hunting, then the right Springer is going to be a good gun.

nced · « **Reply #36 on:** June 18, 2015, 03:24:50 PM »

With a spring gun you have to wait until you know you're going to take a shot to cock the gun.
Nope....never had to do that with the R9s I've been shootin' for a couple decades! I simply shoot a shot or two when I get to the "squirrel woods", cock the gun-load pellet-latch barrel, and then hunt "normal style" like I did with rimfires.
LOL, if I didn't don't get a shot every couple hours then it was a SLOOOOW day, and a quality springer being cocked for a few hours at a time isn't an issue. When living in WV I shot roughly 10,000 shots per year and I had to replace a Maccari spring every couple of years with that shooting schedule. After a spring broke (and they do break after a lot of use) it was simply another $20 bill for a new Maccari spring plus about 30 minutes of disassembly/reassembly and I was good for another couple years!
With a springer there are a couple things considered "consumables" and need replacing occasionally like tires on your car. These are the spring, the piston seal, and the breech seal. LOL....even the gas ram gun can have issues with the piston seal and breech seal, plus the gas charge in the ram can leak down with time (especially the cheap rammers) and the "cheapies" have rams that can't be repaired....only replaced.

Anywhoo.....I personally consider replacing the spring of a R9/HW95 simply a "less than 1/2 hour chore" every few years and a non-issue!

P.S. I guess that I also have issues with this statement if "modest" means cheap.......
"with a modest optic and be effective within 30-40 yards."
Any piston gun of moderate power (say 14fpe) will require a robust scope. This is especially the "rammers" due to the sharper shot cycle. Also, the rammer requires more cocking effort for an equivalent power level than the springer. As a side note....I have found that the inexpensive Adventure Class scopes available at WallyMart for about $80 do hold up pretty good on a springer.

triggerfest · « **Reply #37 on:** June 18, 2015, 03:50:00 PM »

Ohhh and springers are bad... it's an addiction !

And they are great for beginners, they correct every wrong technique used immediately... To still keep some fun in shooting I would advice a low to medium powered springer. Preferrably .22 in around 12fpe max. Like the HW50 or Diana 280. In .177 the HW30 is a great alternative.
And..., just start practising on short ranges with open sights. Save your money for a good scope as next purchase or put the money into a quality springer.

And most of it..., whatever you choose..., have fun !

K.O. · « **Reply #38 on:** June 18, 2015, 03:54:20 PM »

I have shot very well to fair midlin with friends BSA and tuned/untuned springers so I will never say that the can not be accurate and usually the less fpe the less hold sensitive...

But in the 200 dollar range with the double recoil well with the scope I just think there is difficulty ahead...

Now if you can work with peeps and learn to tune your rifle yourself...

Me in that range for store bought stock it would have to go to the pumpers; Benjis, Crosmans, and Sheridans...

My eyes got older and I like the scope now so I build 13XX and may build my 2100 into a ~850 fps .177 pumper with some custom parts.

They will usually need a little knowledge of how to tune/accurize a pumper some do very well out of the box...

Point is at the 200$ level the pumper has a less steep learning curve both on tuning and shooting well.

My I have had fun mixing and matching parts to come up with ~21 accurate fpe for about $150.

But for out of the box performance I would be getting a Benji 392 and a peep at the $200 dollar level...

And keep your eye out for some of the oldies that have been taken care of...

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=92189.0

rockmike · « **Reply #39 on:** June 18, 2015, 05:00:03 PM »

My springers are so much fun and very accurate! Flyindragon air rifles puts out great cost effective springers.I have a XS12 had a XS25 and have shot 3 different XS46u's from Mike melic all had his tunes on them and all shot great.

If you dont mind luggin around a heavy rifle the XS 46u is pretty sweet,the extra weight really mellows the spring in it.The rifles is not that hold sensitive,its very easy to shoot and very accurate.

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Are springers bad?

Author Topic: Are springers bad? (Read 15703 times))