Hatsan 125 Cocking Effort

[gregdavidson]

I want to purchase a Hatsan 125 with a Vortex gas piston but people keep on saying that it's a "bear to cock". Is this true? On Airgun Depot's website it says that the cocking effort is 33 pounds which doesn't sound too bad.

[triggerfest]

Based on my own experience I think that 33 pounds sounds pretty right, the spring version however, that's a bear to cock !

[SpringerForever]

I'd say 33lbs is just a bit on the low side. At least based on my Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25s in NPSS & Vortex.

Just measured the cocking effort by placing the butt of the rifle on the scale & cocking it. Never done this before & I know that others somehow place the rifle barrel end on the scale instead but I don't like that idea so take these numbers for FWIW:

NPSS x 3:   ~49lbs, ~52lbs, ~49lbs.

Vortex x 3: ~48lbs, ~50lbs, ~50lbs

Both guns shoot the JSB Exact King 25.39 pellets at ~25 FPE.

The NPSS was bought used & has always shot that FPE.

While the Vortex was bought refurbished & started off at 28+FPE (both 1st & current rifles) but is now at ~25 FPE. 1st rifle dropped to ~22 FPE before I returned it.

So the cocking effort may be even higher for a totally new gun!

Keep in mind that these aren't just 'magnums', they're "super magnums"! So don't expect a milquetoast cocking effort :-). That probably more than anything else has most folks getting rid of their super magnums. Just too much effort. Definitely not in the plinker category. At least not for most folks. But I'm not most folks & that's exactly what I use mine for. At least currently.

Good luck.

[gregdavidson]

I'd say 33lbs is just a bit on the low side. At least based on my Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25s in NPSS & Vortex.

Just measured the cocking effort by placing the butt of the rifle on the scale & cocking it. Never done this before & I know that others somehow place the rifle barrel end on the scale instead but I don't like that idea so take these numbers for FWIW:

NPSS x 3:   ~49lbs, ~52lbs, ~49lbs.

Vortex x 3: ~48lbs, ~50lbs, ~50lbs

Both guns shoot the JSB Exact King 25.39 pellets at ~25 FPE.

The NPSS was bought used & has always shot that FPE.

While the Vortex was bought refurbished & started off at 28+FPE (both 1st & current rifles) but is now at ~25 FPE. 1st rifle dropped to ~22 FPE before I returned it.

So the cocking effort may be even higher for a totally new gun!

Keep in mind that these aren't just 'magnums', they're "super magnums"! So don't expect a milquetoast cocking effort :-). That probably more than anything else has most folks getting rid of their super magnums. Just too much effort. Definitely not in the plinker category. At least not for most folks. But I'm not most folks & that's exactly what I use mine for. At least currently.

Good luck.

Thanks for the information.

[Oscar M.]

Ok, while I agree with Springers work, I went about it somewhat differently. My gun is a new Hatsan 125 springer. Received Last Thurs. 4-23.
I began shooting it Sat. as work is hectic. That day it was harder to cock. Perhaps 4-5 lbs. more than the figures I'll generate. By shooting it this decreased. So, the method I used was: on a certified scale  with 4oz. divisions, the gun weighs 8.75 lbs.. My arm weighs 12 lbs. with not much shoulder resting on the scale. So, some built in error. I cocked it 3 times with the butt resting on the scale. Each time it was consistent at 58-58.25 lbs.. Upon cocking it the force required to creep it downward was steady at 55 lbs.. Only the last bit did the weight jump up to 58 lbs..
NOW, subtracting the weight of the gun. We'll call it an even 9 and my arm weight at 12 lbs.. We arrive at 37.25 lbs.. When I interpret this data
I'd put the cocking effort at a range of 37.25-38 lbs.. As these types of experiments are not exact but instead express an accurate range of operation. OM

[SpringerForever]

You're absolutely right Oscar M.!

Thank you for pointing out my error.

Plus, you got me thinking ... how could I isolate the rifle & arm weights from the results? And ... the answer is ... with a luggage scale! Digital too! Mine has 3 settings & I used the setting that records peak weight during use.

And the results for my Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 NPSS were:

41.5lbs
41.7lbs
41.9lbs

& here's a pic of the final measurement:



And I think it would be reasonable to expect the Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 Vortex to produce similar numbers since it & the NPSS were pretty well matched in my original attempt.

Closer to Oscar M.'s numbers too.

gregdavidson, sorry about the numbers I 1st posted.

These numbers 'should' be more representative of the cocking effort of a Hatsan Mod 125. But definitely not even close to the number posted on AGD's site. ~22% difference!

[Oscar M.]

Springer, Thank you. Yes, the fly in the ointment with this effort is, 'how do we isolate the arm pressure against the scale' during cocking? I think we just have to  extrapolate the arm pressure. Give it a ball park figure and concede it's not exact but close. Heck, I'll even move your direction a bit and give it a total of 39-38 lbs.. I think we're very close. TO me the effort doesn't seem that much and I like the workout. Plus, I've noticed
much depends on body position during cocking as to the effort required. Such as; if I'm standing and rest the butt on the ground the cocking is not bad. But if I'm in a prone position behind a bush, trying to remain hidden for a second shot. I can barely exert sufficient effort to cock it. Lay down and try it. OM

[redtrucker610]

I thought mine felt harder to cock then my Trail NP2 and about the same as my Octane.

[SpringerForever]

Springer, Thank you. Yes, the fly in the ointment with this effort is, 'how do we isolate the arm pressure against the scale' during cocking? I think we just have to  extrapolate the arm pressure. Give it a ball park figure and concede it's not exact but close. Heck, I'll even move your direction a bit and give it a total of 39-38 lbs.. I think we're very close. TO me the effort doesn't seem that much and I like the workout. Plus, I've noticed
much depends on body position during cocking as to the effort required. Such as; if I'm standing and rest the butt on the ground the cocking is not bad. But if I'm in a prone position behind a bush, trying to remain hidden for a second shot. I can barely exert sufficient effort to cock it. Lay down and try it. OM

I should've explained my "digital luggage scale" technique because it does isolate rifle & arm weight. Here's what I did:

1. Attached digital luggage scale hook to barrel moderator at midpoint to simulate hand location during cocking effort.
2. Then I cocked the rifle normally, i.e., placed butt on leg & then pulled down on the digital luggage scale handle, just as if it were the moderator.
3. Noted peak 'pull' weight.
4. Repeated as necessary.

So if those results aren't spot on, they're very darn close.

I've cocked quite a few magnum rifles, RWS 48/54/56TH/350, & the Hatsan Mod 125s are easily the hardest cocking rifles of them all. Absolutely no contest.

I know what you mean about different positions. I started off cocking my super magnums on my right leg & with my right arm since I was right handed but decided early on that it would be more efficient to do the opposite, cock the rifle on my left leg with my left arm instead & it took awhile to make the adjustment. Definitely taxed me initially until I got used to it, but now it's no issue.

I think it would just be a matter of developing & practicing the technique in different positions & it would eventually become easy. Or at least easier.

[Oscar M.]

Ok, I see what your doing now. Thank you for your efforts in resolving this matter. Yes, these rifles house a powerful spring. Good shooting. OM

[redtrucker610]

I had a chance to shoot both my Octane and the 125 today. The 125 is definitely harder to cock than the Octane.

[SpringerForever]

Out of curiosity did a quick google search on "hatsan mod 125 cocking effort" & found this link:

http://www.topairgun.com/-41-to-50lbs

which lists rifles requiring 41-50lbs of cocking effort & the Hatsan Mod 125 is one of them.

[Oscar M.]

Yes, though he does give a range. Which we've determined is close to our figures. He doesn't give how this was arrived at. This rifle being such a magnum springer, why does he place so many other rifles in this range? OM

[SpringerForever]

Yeah, I kinda find it hard to believe that those others are in the same category as a Hatsan Mod 125 or Mod 135 or even Mod 155. What's even more interesting is that there's an even higher range & not one Hatsan is included. So that makes me just a bit skeptical.

[Oscar M.]

Yes, the details are missing. And anybody can say stuff on the internet. I think the upper end of that range is high. Plus, I tend to put the 125 springer at the upper end. Not some of those others. But I don't have experience with them. OM

[SpringerForever]

Just ran across a mention of the cocking effort for a Hatsan 135 by Tom Gaylord on PA. Anyvey ... he recorded 75 lbs of cocking effort for the 135!

I know it's not a 125 but it's not that much different. Talking about 30mmDiameter x 120mmStroke vs 29mmD x 120mmS so the 125 should be in the same ballpark. And I'm pretty sure it is.

Reflecting on my measuring technique I realized that I had conducted the cocking test using a very slow motion which is not how I normally cock my Hatsan 125s. It's one, sorta explosive, quick movement with one hand so the registered cocking effort would actually be higher than what I posted last. How much higher I don't know. I don't trust my Velcro at the muzzle brake attachment sufficiently to perform the test.

But it would be analogous to measuring trigger pull/press with a jerking motion (I'm exaggerating a bit) vs with a smooth press. Just re-confirmed the difference last week in re-measuring the trigger pull of a Hatsan 125 .25 Vortex that I had adjusted the 1st stage out of, not realizing that I had also adjusted the safety out of it as well. Luckily my brother pointed it out to me. Duh! So ... I readjusted back in the 1st stage & re-measured the trigger pull/press & initially recorded 2lbs 12.2ozs but my 2nd & 3rd tests yielded 2lbs 2.8ozs & 2lbs 1.9ozs, then the 4th test yielded 2lbs 13.0ozs. At which point I realized I had been using a very smooth/gradual press for the lower readings so one final reading yielded 2lbs 3.5ozs.

My point, after all that writing, is that the cocking effort of the 125 is much higher than any of the numbers that I've posted. How much higher I don't know but if Tom Gaylord registered 75 lbs for the Hatsan 135, I'm sure that the 125 (even Vortex) is easily in the 50s. Especially considering my last measurements ranged around 42 lbs for my Hatsan 125 .25 Vortex which is 'only' shooting the JSB Exact King 25.39 at ~25 FPE.

[SpringerForever]

Oh ... & I forgot to mention that the cocking effort of my Hatsan 125 .25 Vortex that yields 25+ FPE with the JSB Exact King 25.39 actually feels harder than the very same rifle switched back to it's original spring (no other change) which produces 28+ FPE shooting the JSB Exact King 25.39. It's a bit hard to explain but the ram is harder initially & thruout the cocking effort while the spring ramps up to it's final maximum.

[SpringerForever]

Finally got up the nerve to actually use my digital luggage scale in a 'real world' cocking effort test.

Velcroed the digital luggage scale to the moderator, just as I did before, & then tested the cocking effort using my natural cocking motion & came up with:

37.4 lbs
37.6 lbs
37.7 lbs

Had some spikes to ~40 lb due to not stopping when the rifle was fully cocked but otherwise a very consistent cocking effort & surprisingly 'light'. Lower than my 2nd set of numbers using a slow controlled cocking action by ~4 lbs.

That's with a Hatsan Mod 125 .25 NPSS that shoots ~25 FPE with the JSB Exact King 25.39.

So much for my contention that the real world cocking effort of the Hatsan Mod 125 .25 NPSS would be in the 50's. Guessed completely wrong. Very surprising since I expected the peak cocking effort weight to peak much higher than it did. Just assumed that the fast cocking action that I use would produce a higher spike in cocking effort. Wrong.

[Oscar M.]

Springer, thanks for these efforts. Still, that's very close to 38 lbs.. Which is what we originally arrived at. So, I must give a look of askance toward the figures some others posted. I know my 125 was stiffer during the first 25 cocking efforts. Then it settled in. OM

[Voltar1]

Take all of Tom's testing with a grain of salt.
 No way that a springer is 75 pounds to cock it.
will test mine tonight.