HW97 feels like it is shooting "harsh"?

[bowzette]

The rifle is .177 and was tuned by Mark611 before I bought it and I don't think it had many miles on the tune.  I haven't shot the rifle a lot.  Mark detuned it to 12 fpe which I verified with my chrony.  The rifle is very accurate, and doesn't "twang".  Compared to my  LGV Motorhead tuned .22 the HW97 feels somewhat "violent/harsh" in the shot cycle. The LGV is also around 12 fpe.  I have a HW80 in .22 and the HW97 feels about as hard to cock as the 80 (may be due to short cocking handle) and much closer to the HW80 recoil than to the LGV.  The HW80 is producing 20 fpe. Is the difference in recoil between the HW97 and LGV both at 12 fpe the difference in caliber-.177 v .22 or is there something else going on? As heavy as the HW97 is I'm surprised at the amount of recoil, snap, sound at only 12 fpe. But it has a great trigger and is very accurate.

[ptpalpha]

Without knowing what all Mark did inside of it, I'd only be guessing.  I suggest shooting Mark an email and see if he can help.
-Paul

[bowzette]

Without knowing what all Mark did inside of it, I'd only be guessing.  I suggest shooting Mark an email and see if he can help.
-Paul

I don't know how to contact Mark.  He is out of ARs and back into PBs.  His email address has changed and I think he may have moved.  I'm not unhappy with the 97 but find it strange to be shooting as hard as it feels for only 12 fpe. I think it has a Vortex spring kit.  Next winter I may take it down and look inside.  Nothing feels rough just "hard shooting" like it is producing much higher fpe. Feels more like shooting a .22lr PB.  Don't know if I'm describing this well and it's all subjective anyway. And I'm spoiled by shooting the FWB 300S, R7 tuned by P.W. and the really soft shooting LGV that Scott tuned.

[Motorhead]

First thing is do a tissue test and see if BREECH o-ring is leaking. If it is that will effect the shot cycle a bunch !!

* Spell correction

[Tomcat]

Without knowing what all Mark did inside of it, I'd only be guessing.  I suggest shooting Mark an email and see if he can help.
-Paul

I don't know how to contact Mark.  He is out of ARs and back into PBs.  His email address has changed and I think he may have moved.  I'm not unhappy with the 97 but find it strange to be shooting as hard as it feels for only 12 fpe. I think it has a Vortex spring kit.  Next winter I may take it down and look inside.  Nothing feels rough just "hard shooting" like it is producing much higher fpe. Feels more like shooting a .22lr PB.  Don't know if I'm describing this well and it's all subjective anyway. And I'm spoiled by shooting the FWB 300S, R7 tuned by P.W. and the really soft shooting LGV that Scott tuned.

I have a HW97, and I thought it was shooting less than spec.  I bought a Vortek PG2 standard power kit for mine, and while it did up the velocity to what I would consider the norm, I also think it is more harsh than it was.  Mine does not twang either.

[anuthabubba]

Have you tried some different pellets? Can make quite a difference sometimes.

[Supaflee]

I concur with Yrok.
 I have a 97 although mine is a .22 cal , and it shoots faultlessly , smooth using either Webley Round head 14.2 Grain or
  RWS Super- H - Point 14.2 Grain .
 I hav'nt chronied it yet , but it is rediculously accurate at 10 meters .
 Good luck ,,,,,,and oh yeah ,,,,,,,,dont take it all to bits !!! Just play with what's there already , you'll get it right .
 Regards Supaflee 
 

[Mulby]

I agree with Scott on this. 9/10 times the breach seal is the culprit. A lot of times it doesn't take long for it to squash and leak. I replaced the one in my 97 with a Vortek product and its by far the longest lasting seal I've used in a 77/97.

[bowzette]

I did the tissue test and doesn't appear to be a breech seal problem.  I shoot JSB 8.44 and FTT I think 8.6.  I think part of the problem is the LGV, R7 and FWB 300s shoot so "soft" the 97 "feels" harsh.  I have a HW80 and it is hard shooting but it is 20 fpe not 12 fpe and I expect it to shoot hard even though it has been highly tuned.  The 97 is accurate but more hold sensitive than the three soft shooting ARs. No twang and the best trigger of the group. Well the 300 is lighter but not "better".

[EMrider]

Every Vortek kit/spring that I have used (R7, pro sport and R1) has felt snappier, or for lack of a better adjective "harsh" than before the kit was installed.

If you have not shot the 97 very often, I can see how it might feel harsh at first.

R

[DanD]

Every Vortek kit/spring that I have used (R7, pro sport and R1) has felt snappier, or for lack of a better adjective "harsh" than before the kit was installed.

If you have not shot the 97 very often, I can see how it might feel harsh at first.

R

I was thinking along the same lines, but my experience is more limited. I put a Vortek SHO kit with Vac seal in an HW50 and although it passes the pellet on turret test even from a stiff rest, and recoils very quickly and  linearly, it just has a hard, dry edge to it that makes it feel more like a crack than a thunk. I have a JM kitted R9 and lube-tuned Blackhawk Elite, both of which shoot harder and are much jumpier and a bit louder, but they seem somehow softer in comparison to the Vortek. I did, however, recently shoot a .177 LGU kitted with a Vortek HW77 small tube kit, and it had a very soft shot cycle at 11.5 ft-lbs, IIRC. On the same day I also had some trigger time with an HW97 shooting at sub 12 ft-lb, and it was a sweet rifle. I hope to have one in my future. Enjoy your new 97. Hopefully JM will recover and reopen so we can try his new 12ft-lb adjustable HW kit!
-
Dan D

Edit: Corrected ADV seal to Vac seal.

[Mulby]

I need more info on this HW kit fitted to the LGU! Modification to the kit? Easily fitted?

[TWBryan]

My initial thought was a leaky breech seal,but you've checked it and it's good. How tight do the pellets fit in the bore? If they are a little lose you'll get a harsher shot cycle due to air getting past the pellet and the piston slamming.

I have a vortek kit in my HW77 and the action seems to moving faster than the pre-kit install. If the gun hasn't been shot much since the kit was installed it may need to bed in,and will get less "harsh" the more you shoot it.

HTH

[Motorhead]

I did the tissue test and doesn't appear to be a breech seal problem.  I shoot JSB 8.44 and FTT I think 8.6.  I think part of the problem is the LGV, R7 and FWB 300s shoot so "soft" the 97 "feels" harsh.  I have a HW80 and it is hard shooting but it is 20 fpe not 12 fpe and I expect it to shoot hard even though it has been highly tuned.  The 97 is accurate but more hold sensitive than the three soft shooting ARs. No twang and the best trigger of the group. Well the 300 is lighter but not "better".

Just a thought ...
HW97's are a fairly powerful rifle generally making 16-17 ft lbs power in stock form.
You may want to try and shoot some heavier pellets in the 10 grain range and see how action feels then