My 4month old R9

[nced]

Recently "Re-Tuned" a diana 34 with a Vortek PG2.  Spring was canted, sacked and just done !
In figuring out what customers needs were, power wanted etc .... was able to use an OEM Air Arms TX spring with a custom length delrin top hat to get the fit correct preload reusing the PG guide/sleeve tube.  This was a .177 "Panther" model which after some preload fiddling settled in @ 14 ft lbs shooting very very nicely.

** Generally has been my observation VORTEK winds SMALLER coil diameter to be able in using the Outer PG2 spring sleeves and still get inside the pistons spring cavity. This 34 was the first bringing attention to using OEM coil diameter with PG2 guides.

YES, agree IMO the service life of a LOT of vorteks smaller diameter springs within PG2 sleeves is LESS 

Years ago RWS offered the RWS94 (rebadged Cometa) and a fellow at the DIFTA field target club used one for a while. After a few months the RWS94 owner mentioned that the springs sagged quickly and he had gone through several replacement springs.

I have always preferred a main spring for my R9s to have a .540ish ID wound of .120 wire with 30ish coils and have gotten good service from JM springs with these specs. If my suspicions are correct (might be goofy), the Vortek replacement spring for the PG2-HW95/97 770120 and 780125 has an ID of about .530. This is assuming (we all know what as#-u-me does) that the part number means .770OD with .120 or .780OD with .125 wire giving a .530 ID. If this is correct then I really have no idea why my PG2 kit sagged so quickly since the ID is real close to the JM springs I've used for years so I'm a bit puzzled by the reports of sagging Vortek springs based on "wind geometry" alone!

This thread is pretty interesting in the since a small ID spring will fit in a tighter piston while giving higher output at the same (for a while), but it will also be higher stressed than the same spring wire wound on a larger ID.

I had never considered using a TX200 factory spring but this does seem interesting because the TX rifles do have a reputation for reliability! I do believe that the TX200 uses a .128 wire spring, does anyone know the dimensions of a factory FAC TX200 spring?

[Brazos]

Interesting Motörhead.  I don't know much about springs sizes.  It appears Vortek lists the OD of the spring, wire gauge, and number of coils.  JM lists the ID of the spring, wire gauge, and number of coils.  I would still like to swap out a Vortek spring and install a JM spring into the Vortek Kit.  I plan to measure a new 34 PG2 spring and determine the ID of the spring and see if it matches up to any JM offerings.  What I don't know is if the OAL between the Vortek & a JM spring would be the same if I ordered a spring from each with the same OD/ID, spring gauge, & number of coils.  Seems to me number of coils may not determine OAL if one spring has coils tighter together (wrapped tighter) than the other.  What you say though makes sense.  In order for the Vortek outer guider to fit in the compression tube they have to use a small gauge spring and in turn it wears out faster.  Therefore my experiment may not produce results. 

I hope nobody walks away thinking I am slamming Vortek after reading my posts.  I am not.  They have a really good design and I recommend and use them.  I am installing a Vortek Kit today for a friend who bought the Kit per my recommendation.

[wimpanzee]

I ordered the vortek kit based on several recommendations...now you have me thinking buyers remorse, and I haven't even received the kit yet!

I'm sure it will be good - better than the factory one - and it spurred me to go ahead and disassemble my R9 - something I was very hesitant to do, but it was easy, and now my confidence level is boosted as well. Now I'm almost itching to go buy a cheap ruger airhawk or something, just to tear it down and play with it!

[nced]

I ordered the vortek kit based on several recommendations...now you have me thinking buyers remorse, and I haven't even received the kit yet!

I'm sure it will be good - better than the factory one - and it spurred me to go ahead and disassemble my R9 - something I was very hesitant to do, but it was easy, and now my confidence level is boosted as well. Now I'm almost itching to go buy a cheap ruger airhawk or something, just to tear it down and play with it!

If you're not shootin' 1000shots per month like I did when I had my PG2 kit you'd probably never have any issues anyway. Springs (like seals) are actually "wear items" like tires on a car and will need to be replaced on occasion regardless. As you've learned, with the R9 a simple spring swap can be done rather cheaply in less than a half hour so the down time plus shipping charges to send it in for repair isn't an issue if you do your own repairs! Of course opening up the gun will void the factory warranty but no big deal since R9s ain't rocket science! 

[wimpanzee]

Everything went back together smoothly. A bit of a pinch getting the sleeve into the piston while trying to press and twist the end cap.

Clocking in around 14.5-14.9 fpe, depending on pellet - 8gr to 10.65gr, now that the dieseling is out of the way.

I totally understand what people mean now, when they say "there is no twang or buzz - it is just a solid thunk". Definitely buzzy before, but now its just smooooooth.

There is a bit of a squeak when I cock it, and the cocking shoe sounds to have a little grate - maybe I under lubed that part, but it's exposed, so I should be able to address that fairly easily.

Accuracy testing this weekend, weather holding!

[Brazos]

No worries with the Vortek Kit.  Just shoot and enjoy.  It is extremely good.  If the rifle gets weak just swap the spring out only.  You don't have to take the piston out, barrel off, etc.  10 minute deal and a new Vortek spring is $17-$18.  I have installed a lot of Vortek kits.  I have only one guy that I have replaced a spring for.  He shoots 2x each day or approx 1000 pellets each week.  I just replaced his 5th Vortek spring sine the end of last June.  He shoots way more than the normal person. 

[ptpalpha]

Hold up...he's gone through 5 springs in less than a year?  Please tell me that's for more than one rifle.

[wimpanzee]

Everything went back together smoothly. A bit of a pinch getting the sleeve into the piston while trying to press and twist the end cap.

Clocking in around 14.5-14.9 fpe, depending on pellet - 8gr to 10.65gr, now that the dieseling is out of the way.

I totally understand what people mean now, when they say "there is no twang or buzz - it is just a solid thunk". Definitely buzzy before, but now its just smooooooth.

There is a bit of a squeak when I cock it, and the cocking shoe sounds to have a little grate - maybe I under lubed that part, but it's exposed, so I should be able to address that fairly easily.

Accuracy testing this weekend, weather holding!

Well jsb 8.44's and polymags are like lasers, once again. We've settled down to 900fps on the jsb, and 920fps on polymags, with about a 10 ES (about 1.3%!!!). The squeaking when cocking, and the sliding sound of the cocking shoe both worked themselves out - its just smooth clicks and solid thuds now. I'm pretty happy!

[Motorhead]

With a squeek / squaak upon cocking would indicate somethings dragging or under a bind most times.
In said rifle ... DID IT HAVE a thin metal sleeve within piston spring cavity ? ... was it removed ?

As too the using of the OEM TX spring ... more than springs I.D. was that of O.D. so the PG kits outer sleeve/guide would be in contact with coils more so than the I.D. guide portion which are generally a tad undersize anyways.
It is OMO that most of the PG's Damping quality comes from the O.D. sleeve and the use of an synesthetic rubber buffer in compression between them. 

[Brazos]

Yes.  5 springs in one RWS 34.  Since June of 2014, that is when I installed his PG2 kit.  I have installed every spring.  He shoots 2x a day.  Typically 800-1000 shots per week.  Sometimes less when weather is bad.

[Motorhead]

Yes.  5 springs in one RWS 34.  Since June of 2014, that is when I installed his PG2 kit.  I have installed every spring.  He shoots 2x a day.  Typically 800-1000 shots per week.  Sometimes less when weather is bad.

Sounds like GUIDE issues ( Both ends ) more than the springs fault.  Find if spring under compression is allowed to rock/cock sideways at any point along it's length it will go wonky in short order 
Ideally set up the guide / top hat so as the guide bottom out in a position rifle gets upon cocking and getting safety set, the 2 are just about touching each other.
In this way when in full battery the spring coils are held in perfect alignment under compression and when released have less tendency to strum and vibrate over time.
Sadly springs are metal and given allowed motion will take memory to move the same direction especially if this undesired motion mechanically decreases there stress.   

[wimpanzee]

With a squeek / squaak upon cocking would indicate somethings dragging or under a bind most times.
In said rifle ... DID IT HAVE a thin metal sleeve within piston spring cavity ? ... was it removed ?

As too the using of the OEM TX spring ... more than springs I.D. was that of O.D. so the PG kits outer sleeve/guide would be in contact with coils more so than the I.D. guide portion which are generally a tad undersize anyways.
It is OMO that most of the PG's Damping quality comes from the O.D. sleeve and the use of an synesthetic rubber buffer in compression between them.

I measured the spring, on an even coil at the base, wrapped around the little black end cap that goes where the original spring guide went, and for .690. The wire diameter came out to .127/.128 (my calipers are cheap).

The metal sleeve came out - it was damaged too, and there was no way the new spring would fit in the piston with it in there. The little instruction sheet also indicated it should be removed. The new spring, and the cap at the end, fit in the piston with no play, as well.