Cleveland National Forest??? BLM or National Forest Service?

[Zulu__Dawn]

Hi all,

I tried to do a forum search... and I only got 2 hits...read them both.  I live in south Orange county (got to be the worst place on the planet for shooting places), I really don't feel like driving 2 hours to get to a shooting location?

I currently shoot with the CASA Guys up in Heavens Ranch...BEST GROUP OF GUYS to shoot with...I have learned a ton already.

I need a place where I can just jump into the truck and go shoot...

So here is my question...

Does anyone know if the Cleveland National Forest (runs North and South and splits Orange County from Riverside County) has BLM land or if can you shoot up there???  Typically if you want to get up there onto those plateaus you go up through Silverado Canyon...I think most folks call them the Saddle-back Mountains.  I cant find a dang map on the internet that shows you if there is any portion of that belonging to BLM or Public.

Who manages that land...National Forest Service?  Rangers?  Or OC Sherrifs?  Anyone have a BLM map of that particular zone?

Anyway...would like to go plink up there on a weekend or 2 if possible.

Zulu

EDIT:  Just found this
They are called the Santa Ana Mountains

http://www.freewebs.com/santaanamountains/trailinformation.htm

[dougroundup]

I was unable to access the link that you posted......
The Cleveland National Forest is just that, a National Forest. As such I would believe that is under the jurisdiction of the US Forest Service. Which by the way interestingly enough in the case of The Cleveland National Forest ,,,,,, Managed by the U.S.D.A.  (yes, the same folks that inspect the produce you purchase at the market!).
However it can get complicated because there exist much private land within its boundaries that fall under jurisdiction of Riverside, Orange and San Diego Counties. I am sure that the State of California somehow has authority over some type of area of this land. The US Government Military also lays some stakes within the Greater Santa Ana Mountain range.
Much of the infrastructure such as the roadways (unimproved "fire roads") are publically maintained by the various Counties or by private entities (such as utility service roads).
The USDA/US Forest Service are usually the primary Authority. They maintain an active and regular presence. Usually patrolling along the winding network of all the unimproved roadways. This includes both the publically accessable and non accessable, public and privately maintained right of way roadways and easements.
The Cleveland National Forest once was a place of great interest for me. I have always had a fondness for having such a mild wilderness right nearby in my backyard and yet in the middle of everything. Unfortunately, this has also been its own curse and demise too......  I couldn't refrain from posting my comment and sharing my thoughts, recollections and my vague past knowledge of The Cleveland National Forest. 
Afterall,,,, my introduction to recreational shooting began with a great majority of my beginning experiences occurring within the boundaries of The Cleveland National Forest!  It was a place just outside of town that I discovered shortly after being re transplanted back to California from the Colorado Rockie Mountains. (I spent my preteen and early teens of my youth in Colorado and thus imagined myself to be a great outdoorsman)
Way back in the day... (circa... very early 80's)  as a late teen and young adult I greatly enjoyed spending many outdoor adventures up in those hills. A great portion of which involved shooting and/or hunting.
My perspective and recollections are coming from someone on the otherside of the mountain. Y'all know how us Inland Empire folks were all out in the sticks, and rural like. Not so sophisticated like y'all City Slickers from the O.C.!?!  Right?
Well,,,, ya guys did at least have Saddleback,,,, a pretty kickass motorcross park before development......  Right! 
Anyhow,,, while growing up in the rural outskirts of Corona, I recall a time when It certainly seemed that the "Forest" was much more accessible. It certainly seemed to allow a greater amount of freedom.  It seemed much easier to pursue your own "wilderness" adventure activities with much less restriction and invasiveness of others.
I recall that essentially, it was possible to travel nearly unrestricted upon most every fire road or other misc. unimproved roadway.
Eventually, seasonal closures restricted some of the more treacherous pathways and roads along the peaks.
It seems that this is how it began....  Other misguided adventurers, (probably from the O.C. ended up getting really bad stuck and blocked the roadway. An expensive offroad recovery ensued requiring support from El Toro Marine base. A pathway had to be cleared for the right of way of utility vehicles requiring immediate service access.
Basically however, ya could pretty much enjoy your outdoor activities free from too much scrutiny or overly burdensome authority. As long as you had some respect for the land, respected the private properties of others and used reasonable common sense with your activities, you could get right along fine.
Usually the only authority that I would see were USDA Forestry personal. Most exchanges with them was a nod and a wave. Most direct contacts were more of a casual and social exchange. If they had any concern for enforcement of any statue it was almost always exclusively related to fire safety! NO OPEN FIRES except within approved Forest Service operated campgrounds. Spark Arrestors on all off highway vehicles..... Etc....

 I believe I once saw the USFS accompany a State Fish and Game Agent.

I look back now a bit more objectively and am suprised many of my exploits didn't gain much more greater scrutiny!

It wasn't uncommon to encounter the USFS guys while I was roaring down the road on an ATC, myself shirtless and wearing cutoff shorts but also  wearing a very large shoulder harnessed holster, packing a very large Scope'd Thompson Center Contender Pistol with a super 14" barrel! Not once do I ever remember being asked about the pistol..... Spark Arrestor yes, pistol no... Sure was a different era, similarly, I had a gunrack in the back window of my 4x4  that always carried both a Mini 14 stainless steel folder (Ala the "A-Team")  and also carried a AR-15 HBAR Delta Elite. 
I gotta feeling ya cant do that anymore these days! 
Today even a less menacing looking gun like a 30- 30 or even a Maruader would likely result in a traffic stop that includes weapons fully drawn!
Major urban encroachment rapidly took place. The growth of large scale developments nudged up against and right up into the Santa Ana Mountain Range. Many people flocked to the lure of more affordable larger luxury executive housing. Developments became a new cash crop for the vast citrus industry. South Corona urbanized with commuters working from the OC  and making a distant drive back to retreat to the six or seven bedroom affordable home in the neighborhoods that have choked off the open entrances into the mountain range.... You know, the ones with second mortgages, used to buy the rest of the toys like the Joneses down the street!
Seriously, I dunno if it was really all that.....
However, there was a very noticably large increase in visitors in and out of these areas.  I do know when ya get too many people it always seems as if there's a loss of accountability and respect from the collective whole multitude. Collectively, the easily accessible areas got trampled under foot. Partying and littering up the areas. Running amock, wrecking and abandoning cars. Racing  around shooting up road signs, broken beer bottles everywhere. Vandalism of historic pioneer buildings. Painballs and bullet holes in private properties, Tampering with urilities and crucial radio sites.... 
With so many people, it became a burden upon much of the unimproved access roads. Roads paid and maintained by variety of both public and private entities.
Restricted access and closures greatly limited travel to some of the choicest traveled places that once featured the best wilderness experiences.
The abuse to the resources , the liabilities,  and damage to conservation have greatly curtailed the activities enjoyed and abused by so many.
If an activity isn't abolished it is strictly managed and usually somehow taxed or regulated  requiring proper permit.
You must purchase a wilderness permit to enter the forest.
No longer can you hike into a location of your own choosing and camp out.
All camping is done at a campground. Rock collecting,  peospecting, harvesting or simply removal of resource strictly forbidden or exrinct from over-exploitation.
Off Roading and 4x4 ? Paragliding? Loitering?
Some of the most avoidable and environmentally  damaging recreational activities in the past come from ourselves and our favorite sportsman activities. The sport of recreational shooting with what many consider unecessary destruction complete with the additional eyesore of discarded debris that usually remains left behind..... Recreational shooting usually occurs in a confined areas of the outdoors and thus is considered second only to the number one desecration of open land,,,,, The off highway vehicle and the damage they allegedly create happens over a much larger area. Irresponsible operation of those rebelous off roaders straying off the beaten path being the major environmental evil. Miles of long pathsways of destruction to the environmenl.....  Trampling every living organism to death.. Ripping away every last sritch of foilage. Attributing to air quality paeticulate matter and global warming......  . I remember hearing this concern from supposed environmental impact reports during the days of Fienstiens great crusade to preserve the Deserts and restrict access to BLM lands.

Working my way all the way back on track and on topic....  to answer any questions with this long drawn out story?
Well my knowledge is far from very current.......
As for specifically the case of firearms,,,
I can only ever recall three truly allowable places that the Forest Service had officially permitted what they have defined as "Open Field Target Shooting".
The first of two places I know for fact are now closed down. However I will share where I once know such activities were located....
The first place down memory lane, was Tin Mine Canyon along the roadside of Skyline Drive.... This place was much like many other popular places of the time ....(Lytle Creek comes to mind!)  A complete zoo!!!!
Abuse of firearms all along the roadway above the roadway and beyond the roadway, leading all the way up and into the Orange County sides and back down into Blackstar Canyon rd.
This probably was a large contributing factor leading to its closure as was its close proximity to private lands and general irresponsible behaviour of the many whom acted foolishly.
The second place for a brief time was off of Indian Truck Trail near the Bedford Canyon area. Just far enough and deep enough into the forest to be out of the way from the local nudist colony.
This area is now occupied by a large housing community with a shopping mall right at what was once the entrance.
Third place was pretty decent shooting area but I am not very optimistic that it would still be open to shooting........  However it might be worth further research..... Ya never know?
This would be at the very top of the summit on the Ortega Highway .   Where Bluejay campground is located you would enter the Forest service Main Divide roadway and proceed North for about three miles  and that would be where shooting was allowed to begin.
I do know that entry to the roadway nowadays requires purchase of a forest wilderness pass....

 BlueJay was a favorite offroad 4x4 destination for myself and a few friends as we would start in corona at the base of skyline drive and take it to the very top and access the north main divide road at what once was the stone house known as beeks place, then starting at pleasants peak we would navigate our way up and down all the way past Santiago peek continuing south and back down into bluejay and out onto the highway on the ortega highway.
Sometimes we would stop halfway and camp out over the evening.
Othertimes we would make a day of it.
Other times myself and copilot would transverse the path in my single vehicle at night.
My 4x4 had like over a zillion candlepower of halogen external spot lighting in every direction! With two batteries and dual alternators!  We would see many herds of deer at night, bobcats, and occasionally the most prolific of several mountain lions ,,,, the one we named Big Cat! 
This brings me to another point that as far as I know based on facts that may long be dated... It is or at least was,,, entirely legal to use and discharge a "firearm" within the Cleveland National Forest in the LAWFUL pursuit of game. Now its been a very long time since i possessed a valid hunting license and i know they have added all kinds of geographical restrictions on where you can hunt with a "firearm".  Of course a big thing that i havent answered and we need to know is if an air rifle is per missable in the national forest. My guess is for the lawful pursuit of game ,,,,,, Yes, but California has no game species and only a few furbearers that can be hunted with air  rifle....
Another interesting fact....... That is if you are still following me....
It used to be a little known fact, that often there were many unclaimed or unutilized deer tags in the zone that covers the geographical area of our local Santa Ana mountain range. The likelyhood or overall odds of securing a draw for these tags from fish and game were generally pretty good.  Not many hunters utilized this zone, ( D4?) and i think they even extended the archery hunt.. Mostly small to medium sized scrub deer with a diet of sage and whatnot probably doesnt dress out to a huge locker of venison and it  may have more gamey'er flavor than some would prefer ,,, I know I really prefer the bovine variety of meats much over venison anydays.

BtW ....... Or ,
PS....
Some of my many exploits and memorable activities within the Cleveland National Forest.....
shooting, hunting,  hiking ,  dirt biking, 4x4ing, camping,  Soaring RC sail planes and Paragliding, learning to hover in a R22 helicopter and all about transitional lift, treasure hunting, prospecting, , ,  Setting up my band and playing at maximum volume through a hundred watt marshall. High above the city at the very top of skyline drive at sunset,
Setting up a very large "portable" antenna array for a long distant ssb communication to the Hawaiian islands on 2mtr vhf ssb ham radio. The radio waves propagated by morning tropospheric ducting! Attempting the same contact on 70cm with Morse code..... Experimenting with laser light. Attempting to communicate on laser light.  Conducting a Laser light show with confirmed visibility on Catalina! 
Quite few nefarious activities too, such as operating over a nearly 300watt input power transmitter with a very broad coverage area we broadcast what was a very authentic pirate radio station. A format of classic psychedelic rock music and profanity strewn dialog with Market Quotations from the pages of High Times Magazine. Wideband true FM Stereo! (KLSD 104.7FM) happy turkey day LA!
Throw in some inadvertant cultivation from the accidental germination of a few discarded seeds near the kickback spot ....
And of course a very great place to take  a date to watch the submarine races off of the coast of southern California,,, this always takes place in the evening just after viewing the sunset on Catalina!
And also running out of gas with my girlfriend and later rescued and befriended by a most kindly and generous stranger... Only later to discover after his capture that he was some sort of high ranking fugitive cartel leader!!!!
Ah yes, good times in them there hills,,,,,, nobody should be allowed so much fun..... Maybe I am the reason why?!
I doubt if i offer much useful information but I truly have appreciation for the Santa Ana Mountains /Cleveland National forest.... Good times indeed, maybe someone else finds the experience an interesting enough read. Thanks for letting me carry on and share!

[Gertrude]

Zulu,

Short answer,... No. There is no "target shooting" permitted in the CNF. (including airguns)

longer answer, click here... http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cleveland/news-events/?cid=STELPRDB5227909

Shooting with the CASA guys at HR is about as close as it gets, and yes they are a GREAT group of guys.