Author Topic: SUB MOA at 100 yards (Read 44062 times))

Sfttailrdr46 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 21, 2015, 02:52:10 PM »

Quote from: Motorhead on February 21, 2015, 02:44:15 PM

And this thread lives on ...

Scott you have to admit it has many of us that consider ourselves "excellent " shots thinking about it and scratching our respective heads wondering if we can put 25 shots into 5 under a dime size groups in a row . The good news is there is no $50,000 cash prize riding on it only bragging rights

jeff76 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 21, 2015, 02:53:11 PM »

I just want to see the guy buy a super expensive rifle, and hopefully shoot some awesome groups. maybe even achieve the 1 moa at 100 yards on a regular basis.

Motorhead · « **Reply #42 on:** February 21, 2015, 03:07:12 PM »

Quote from: sfttailrdr46 on February 21, 2015, 02:52:10 PM

Quote from: Motorhead on February 21, 2015, 02:44:15 PM
And this thread lives on ...

Scott you have to admit it has many of us that consider ourselves "excellent " shots thinking about it and scratching our respective heads wondering if we can put 25 shots into 5 under a dime size groups in a row . The good news is there is no $50,000 cash prize riding on it only bragging rights

As one who actually shoots semi serious / informal Air Rifle bench rest off Concrete stations, Wind flags etc ...
That task with a .177 at 50 yards ( 25 into 5 dime ) is fairly difficult done outside. ( At 25 easy peezy )
Done with a .22 cal becomes a tad easier, and quite likely easier as calibers get larger

Stretch that out to 100 yards and you will open up POI OVER twice your 50. "Over" because pellet while not only covering twice the distance, travels SLOWER at 50-100 than it did 0-50. The influences of winds, pellets flight dynamics changing as it slows will ALL degrade POA / POI relativity.

Fun discussion, reality however is a tad more telling.

Charles Outdoors · « **Reply #43 on:** February 21, 2015, 03:18:51 PM »

MOA does not mean 3-5 shots covered by a dime as that measures outside to outside and not center to center so no need to try and make it more difficult. That's like 2 .25's touching side by side. That would force a .50 cal. to 1 hole. How about we keep MOA at MOA.

grauhanen · « **Reply #44 on:** February 21, 2015, 03:20:45 PM »

Quote from: Motorhead on February 21, 2015, 03:07:12 PM

Quote from: sfttailrdr46 on February 21, 2015, 02:52:10 PM
Quote from: Motorhead on February 21, 2015, 02:44:15 PM
And this thread lives on ...

Scott you have to admit it has many of us that consider ourselves "excellent " shots thinking about it and scratching our respective heads wondering if we can put 25 shots into 5 under a dime size groups in a row . The good news is there is no $50,000 cash prize riding on it only bragging rights

As one who actually shoots semi serious / informal Air Rifle bench rest off Concrete stations, Wind flags etc ...
That task with a .177 at 50 yards ( 25 into 5 dime ) is fairly difficult done outside. ( At 25 easy peezy )
Done with a .22 cal becomes a tad easier, and quite likely easier as calibers get larger
Stretch that out to 100 yards and you will open up POI OVER twice your 50. "Over" because pellet while not only covering twice the distance, travels SLOWER at 50-100 than it did 0-50. The influences of winds, pellets flight dynamics changing as it slows will ALL degrade POA / POI relativity.

Fun discussion, reality however is a tad more telling.

Listen to Scott. Shooting an air rifle at 1/2" groups at 100 yards is in the realm of wishful thinking. Shooting an air rifle sub 1/2" groups at 50 yards can be done, but it is extremely difficult and hence unlikely to be done repeatedly.

rsterne · « **Reply #45 on:** February 21, 2015, 04:00:06 PM »

Craymar, the most common pellet calibers (and that's the challenge, not for bullets) are .177, 22 (which measures 0.217"), and .25.... A dime measures 0.710" in diameter, so if you can completely cover a group, then the C-T-C measurements are:

.177 cal = 0.533"
.217 cal = 0.493"
.250 cal = 0.460"

That is a 0.073" advantage to the .177 cal, but typically they get pushed around more by the wind.... 1 MOA is 1.047" at 100 yards, or 0.523" C-T-C at 50 yards.... so in theory a group covered by a dime at 50 yards in .177 could be 0.010" over MOA, the other calibers would be slightly less....

The reason I suggested using a dime at 50 yards is because it is MUCH easier to lay a dime over a group and see if anything sticks out than it is to ACCURATELY determine the exact center of five holes, some of which overlap, and then measure the C-T-C distance.... You can't use a plug scoring gauge once the holes are not perfect, round, single holes (ie one shot per target).... So, if you think it is more accurate to ESTIMATE where the centers are to determine whether or not the group is MOA instead of using a constant, easy to use standard (that favours .177 over .25 cal by 0.073") then more power to you.... If you post five MOA groups at 50 yards on one piece of paper with a .35 cal, I'll be the first to admit you properly met the challenge.... Heck I'd even be impressed if you did it with bullets from an airgun instead of pellets.... So get shooting and lets see some results, guys!....

Bob

Sfttailrdr46 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 21, 2015, 04:22:38 PM »

As long as we use Bob's Fifty yard distance and 5 groups on one target sheet covered by a US ten cent coin I still feel it may be doable but extremely difficult out doors. The fun is in the trying and again this is for fun and bragging rights NOT $$$$$$$ so let the games begin

Tater · « **Reply #47 on:** February 21, 2015, 05:04:47 PM »

Put me down for $10 on Palone.

Sfttailrdr46 · « **Reply #48 on:** February 21, 2015, 06:01:52 PM »

Quote from: Tater on February 21, 2015, 05:04:47 PM

Put me down for $10 on Palone.

I'll be happy to take your money and buy pellets with it

BALLISTIC1 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 21, 2015, 07:19:45 PM »

Hitting a dime at 50 yards every time...... Is a lot different than under a dime at 50 yards every time....

I haven't made any attempts yet. I was just giving it serious thought. I tell non airgun and firearms people I can hit a dime at fifty yards almost every time but I know i can only hit a dime at fifty yards most of the time (on a bood day more than half).

BRASS

Greg

Sfttailrdr46 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 21, 2015, 07:26:36 PM »

Quote from: BALLISTIC1 on February 21, 2015, 07:19:45 PM

Hitting a dime at 50 yards every time...... Is a lot different than under a dime at 50 yards every time....

BRASS

Greg

Absolutely but remember the guy or gal that does it will leave the rest in total awe of the skill required

lillysdad621 · « **Reply #51 on:** February 21, 2015, 08:39:46 PM »

3 pages... no takers... lol

pyroboy33 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 21, 2015, 08:45:21 PM »

Sounds like a fun challenge, I'll try it with my cricket as soon as the wind calms down and report back here...

grauhanen · « **Reply #53 on:** February 21, 2015, 08:56:35 PM »

Quote from: lillysdad621 on February 21, 2015, 08:39:46 PM

3 pages... no takers... lol

There'll be takers, no doubt about it. It's easy enough to imagine shooting a half-inch group at 50 yards. But it gets harder and harder to imagine doing it five times in a row with no "fliers" or misses. You screw up one shot out of 25 and you have failed. It is a very difficult challenge with an air rifle.

BALLISTIC1 · « **Reply #54 on:** February 21, 2015, 09:59:41 PM »

The 5 shot bull may be fun to try but I also think it near impossible.
But I believe that sub 1 inch at 100 yards is.

If we are honest do we have anything to be embarrassed about or be ashamed of.

I have good evidence that goes to support both sides of the discussion.

For whatever reason of the three methods of posting pictures none of them will post a photo here on GTA.
I don't have a problem posting pics on forums, just here.

I will post this link. If someone would be kind enough to repost it as a picture I will explain..

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h462/1katana/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150212_095115.jpg

BRASS

Greg

rsterne · « **Reply #55 on:** February 21, 2015, 10:12:17 PM »

Please note, the requirement is NOT to hit a dime 25 times at 50 yards, the placement of the shots on the target is of no consequence, you are not shooting for a score, you are shooting ONLY for the size of the group.... In fact, I would intentionally sight the gun in so that the POI was NOT at the POA, so that the POA would not be obliterated by the holes in the target.... If you typically sight your rifle at 35-40 yards, I wouldn't change it, let the pellets hit an inch or two low.... The requirement is that each of the five 5-shot groups can be covered completely by a dime....

Bob

BALLISTIC1 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 21, 2015, 10:29:07 PM »

My pic posted so here is what I have to lend to this dicussion.

This is a railroad track plate. It is a little over a foot tall. It hangs below my 100 + a few yards.

The square holes in the plate are 3/4'' square..prairie dog silhouette is the target we shoot at at the 'Winter Varmint Shoot'.
.22's at 70yds, .25's at 80 yards and .30's have to shoot 90. The X zone on the target we shoot at is about 1 1/2'' maybe just a little smaller. The X zone on my target was not painted very clearly.

When the target was fresh I shot at the neck, the X, and down lower. Some of the shots were in the wind and you can see where they were blown off but still grouping (touching, stringing) but if you look really close at the bottom of the X zone there are about 7 shots in a neat little group. If you look below that there are about 8 shots stacked up. The hole is 3/4'' square the CTC on that group is about 1/2''. You can also see where I was aiming at the hole and there are several shots struggle together and some shots went through the hole.

Most of the shots that seem wild are from when I get a liitle bored when shooting at the 50 yard line and shoot without refocusing and holding the bottom of the scope on the top of the plate. Unless there is a lot of wind I can hit the plate that way most times.

I hope everyone takes this in good taste and in the interest and pursuit of something we all truely love.

BRASS

Greg

MicErs · « **Reply #57 on:** February 21, 2015, 10:32:15 PM »

Quote from: rsterne on February 21, 2015, 10:12:17 PM

Please note, the requirement is NOT to hit a dime 25 times at 50 yards, the placement of the shots on the target is of no consequence, you are not shooting for a score, you are shooting ONLY for the size of the group.... In fact, I would intentionally sight the gun in so that the POI was NOT at the POA, so that the POA would not be obliterated by the holes in the target.... If you typically sight your rifle at 35-40 yards, I wouldn't change it, let the pellets hit an inch or two low.... The requirement is that each of the five 5-shot groups can be covered completely by a dime....

Bob

+1 All you have to do is shoot five (5) groups which are zero point five (0.5) inches in diameter at fifty yards on one sheet of paper...

What could be easier?

Show me, don't tell me.

michaelthomas · « **Reply #58 on:** February 21, 2015, 10:41:17 PM »

This is at 55 yards (50m). Gun zeroed for 27y (25m). They all cover with a dime.....although the first one is by far the closest. I can post with the dime if the measurements are in doubt. To be honest.....I only took 25 shots at this distance.....I didn't spend all day trying to shoot this. I shot this for a guy that was inquiring about how one of my 12fpe bench rifles did at 50m. The conditions were very calm, and a change in that variable alone would be enough to spoil the bunch.

I did exactly as Bob suggested. I used the sighter bulls at the top to aim at.....with the shots going low.

Mike

Sfttailrdr46 · « **Reply #59 on:** February 21, 2015, 10:45:47 PM »

Mike you're my hero even if the rifle is "just" a 12 FPE PCP rifle

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SUB MOA at 100 yards

Author Topic: SUB MOA at 100 yards (Read 44062 times))