SUB MOA at 100 yards

[Rimshot]

While reading another post talking about moa. I have to ask the question is there an air rifle that can achieve sub moa at 100 yards. Years ago a dealer told me he had an AirForce PCP that could, and with a muzzel brake could make it back yard friendly.

So because the DA "aka domestic assistance, aka the bride, aka chief procurer, said because you have been working so hard you can get a new gun.

I then said this is my air rifle and this is my gun, this one is for throwing lead and this one is for fun. So I think I have been approved to buy a new air rifle because my gun doesn't need an upgrade.

Budget under $2500. I have air for pcp I own several.  Requirements are sub moa at 100 yards or so, report level comparable to a rws 48 or less.

Thoughts ??





 

[MicErs]

That is a tall order even in a powder burner.  There are plenty that can do it and a lot more that can not do it.  Just being able to shoot that well is a challenge.  I think I can do that from a bench on a range because I have shot a few groups that good... but with an air rifle flight time itself exposes the pellet to a lot more wind drift.

Are there stats somewhere about what people are doing on the bench competitions?

[rsterne]

I assume you want to be able to shoot it outside in real conditions, and not 100 yards indoors?.... If that is the case, and you expect to do it reliably, then forget using pellets and consider something like a Sinner from Holland, shooting 41 gr. bullets around 1050 fps.... basically .22LR target loads in an air rifle.... That is the ONLY type of airgun that will consistently turn in MOA at 100 yards outdoors.... It's not the fault of the rifle, but the pellets just don't (can't) have the Ballistics Coefficient necessary to fight the wind at that distance.... What you probably don't realize is that a 2 mph wind, which you cannot feel on your face, will drift the best pellets about 2 inches at 100 yards.... Compare that to a .22LR bullet at about 1/2"....

Bob

[ToRmEnToR]

I think for on the cheap AF in .25 is your best option.. Then you can do simple, two min cal changes to almost any cal you want.. Then you'd have to go .257 to get the one of the best bc's.. My own AF Condor SS, 18", factory shroud is a great 100yd air rifle.. Yes wind is a factor, but still performs very well out a longer range compared to My old/sold Gen 1 Mrod .25.. My D48 is WAY louder than My Condor SS!

[mobilehomer]

Take a look at some of this post from THEOBENRULES. Especially reply #3. Check the links and scroll down to the pix. There are some good 100 meter groups.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=66826.msg636602#msg636602

[rsterne]

NOTE: Indoor Match....

Bob

[Motorhead]

Hows that saying go
When the cows come home ... fat lady sings & pigs fly.
All the above can and does happen ... once in awhile.

Sub 1 moa at 100 yards outdoors with an air rifle shooting pellets ... good luck with that 

[Bryan Heimann]

I would think that for $2,500, if you already have a fill method and an optic, they sky is the limit.  Just shop wisely.  Then again, I don't know a thing about pcp's and I've never even attempted to shoot paper at 100 yards.  Lord knows I love air rifles, but if I had $2,500 to spend I'd get a nice bolt action rifle in 6.5X55 Swedish, and maybe invest in some hand loading equipment if there was anything left 

[palonej]

Awesome position to be in!!
I would look at Daystate, FX and RAW or Steyr.
Might not be able to do what you're looking for, but those rifles are SWEET and ridiculous accurate!!
Not sure of the price, but that Steyr Hunitng 5 in semi auto is absolutely gorgeous!!!

Check this work of art out!!!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1424114866/My+new+Steyr+hunting+5

[Bryan Heimann]

that steyr is something else

[DavidS]

If you are a good enough shot to perfectly compensate for the wind with no error, and the AirRifle has a very good barrel (well made, no deformity, lead lapped, etc), and the AirRifle is .22 or better and capable of sending 18 grain pellets at over 700FPS (in .22, heavier in larger cal), and the shot to shot consistancy is very good with the AirRifle, then the combination of you and AirRifle should be able to do sub MOA at 100 yards.

That actualy leaves a lot of possibilities, and eliminates a lot as well.     Obviously if you want a PCP, then it will have to have a pressure regulator, to keep the shot to shot consistancy.

Though there are many out there that could do the job, many of them will require purchasing the Rifle, Regulator, and LW Barrel, then upgrading the Rifle with the Regulator and LW barrel.

[Bryan Heimann]

David, please don't take this the wrong way, but you might want to do a quick google search about 100 meter benchrest with airguns.

[ptpalpha]

I would contact Timmy Mac and inquire about a US FT Benchrest rifle.

[Bwalton]

First off to be able to shoot sub moa @ 100yards is not just the gun, its the shooter and knowing how to read the wind if outside, here is my 100yard group  with my AT44-10 and it did not take $2500 to do it, I say this all the time... If you can shoot under .500 @ 50yards is a good indication that you can do moa @ 100. Now for hunting thats is fine if you are bench rest shooting then a little more is required...If your gun shoots true, no left to right or right to left cork screwing and can shoot in a straight line, then that is 80% of the guns needs the other is a very Low ES, after that it is all up to you and your knowledge. Just to prove that my 100yards were true I took two back to back starlings @ 100yards no problem.... Now for bench rest the use a much heavier pellet like a .30 or .25 to fight against the wind, and much more is involved. That scene is much too involved for me and too time consuming. But in general and in theory there is two very different moa groups, a hunting moa and a bench rest moa which is way more precise.

[cluny1973]

     I have been able to shoot my FX Boss less than 1 inch ctc. I think that unless you get into a .257 or 9mm big bore, you are going to have a hard time. As mentioned earlier in the thread,diabolo pellets are just not made for that kind of range. A diabolo pellet is like a badmington birdie, it stabilizes in the air by using drag and not spin, hence why a bullet is better suited for range. Also, bullets are heavier and resist wind deflection better. Using pellets for 100 yard shooting is like playing tennis with a nerf ball.

     Your best bet, with the money you have, is an Extreme Big Bore in either .257 or .308. Keep in mind you only get 3 shots per 4200-4500 fill. You will need a carbon fiver tank and a regulator unless you want to charge every 2-3 shots. You want to keep your extreme spread at a minimum, less than 15-20 fps. A regulator will cost you around 400-500 dollars and a carbon fiber tank around 300-800 depending on size. So, assuming you already have a CF tank, you will need to spend about 2000 for an Extreme rifle and a regulator. Throw in a tank and you are looking at 2800 for the set up. It is important you have a CF tank rated for 4500 psi or your not going to be able to fill your gun. A DAQ or XP in the same calibers would work but good luck trying to get one of those.

     Second choice and less expensive is to go for a regulated, high power gun in .25, .30 or 9mm.  A RAW in 9mm will spit a 80 grain pellet at 800 fps. an 80 grain pellet is less affected by air than a 50 or 25 grainer. A RAW would be my choice, followed by an FX Boss or Daystate Wolverine. These last two will shoot a 50 grain pellet at 850 and 950 fps respectively. These 3 guns have match triggers which is essential for accurate shooting. They have a good fitting stock also which is important as well.

Hope this helps
D.

[rsterne]

Using pellets for 100 yard shooting is like playing tennis with a nerf ball.

That's the best quote I have ever seen on this subject.... Is it POSSIBLE, yes?.... but it's 90% the shooter's ability to dope the wind unless it's dead calm.... If you expect to hold MOA by just holding on the bull, you will be sorely diasppoionted.... If you want to attempt it with pellets, why not get the gun that just won the Extreme Bench Rest.... The USFT in .30 cal from Tim @ Mac1 Airguns....

If you want to go bullets, with all the advantages of superior BC, you will need a custom PCP.... I would concentrate on .257 cal, (alternately .224 or .308 cal.) or the "new kid on the block" in airguns, the 7mm.... Set the gun up to shoot tethered on a regulator at 2900-3500 psi, from an 88 CF, 4500 psi SCBA tank, and you will have the ability to shoot 2-5 shots without the tether....

Bob

[grauhanen]

Budget under $2500. I have air for pcp I own several.  Requirements are sub moa at 100 yards or so, report level comparable to a rws 48 or less.

Thoughts ??

Sub MOA at 100 and quiet as a springer, eh?  No one should enjoy raining on a parade but realistically that's a very tall order -- the sub MOA part, that is.  Such rifles, if they do exist, are few and far between.  The few rifles that may shoot sub MOA don't come shooting that well off the shelf.  It's hard enough to achieve with a .22LR, let alone with a pellet shooting gun.  Pellets simply don't give you the chance to reasonably hope or expect MOA accuracy.  Save your money and spend it on something more attainable than a sub MOA PCP.

[mobilehomer]

Sorry for any confusion in my earlier post. I only added this to show that there are many capable guns.
 The ability to do this consistantly is SOLELY on the person behind the trigger. The better the equipment, the better the possible outcome.
 And as always , there is NO SUBSTITUTE for practice!!!

[Bwalton]

Sorry for any confusion in my earlier post. I only added this to show that there are many capable guns.
 The ability to do this consistantly is SOLELY on the person behind the trigger. The better the equipment, the better the possible outcome.
 And as always , there is NO SUBSTITUTE for practice!!!

indeed

[ToRmEnToR]

First off to be able to shoot sub moa @ 100yards is not just the gun, its the shooter and knowing how to read the wind if outside, here is my 100yard group  with my AT44-10 and it did not take $2500 to do it, I say this all the time... If you can shoot under .500 @ 50yards is a good indication that you can do moa @ 100. Now for hunting thats is fine if you are bench rest shooting then a little more is required...If your gun shoots true, no left to right or right to left cork screwing and can shoot in a straight line, then that is 80% of the guns needs the other is a very Low ES, after that it is all up to you and your knowledge. Just to prove that my 100yards were true I took two back to back starlings @ 100yards no problem.... Now for bench rest the use a much heavier pellet like a .30 or .25 to fight against the wind, and much more is involved. That scene is much too involved for me and too time consuming. But in general and in theory there is two very different moa groups, a hunting moa and a bench rest moa which is way more precise.

Right on..

Wow that Steyr is beautiful!!