Last post..

[Hoffman9517]

About hw80's cause I'm ordering one Friday. I would like to know if they are known to have barrel droop. I'm going with a one piece bkl 30mm with a swat scope. Don't want to find out the hard way if I don't have too. So if anyone knows.. Thanks for lettin me know!

[bgmcgee]

I have no idea if it has droop or not but why not just go with the bkl adjustable mount then it won't matter.

[Hoffman9517]

Looking at getting the most rugged setup possible. Minus the fixed variable scope. (Don't have a preference yet)

[Motorhead]

Likely YES ... very few barrel break AG's lock up in parallel with receiver.

[Hoffman9517]

Maybe I should get a cheap utg mount with droop to try first? But i don't want to risk a good scope..

[VillageSniper]

My brother recently bought an R1.  I asked him and he said it shot about 3.5" low at 10 yards.  An adjustable mount may work fine, but many argue that they won't hold zero, especially on a magnum Springer.  You can always buy a custom milled droop mount from Mac1, or get a BKl or Sportsmatch one piece drooper.  The only way to really see your exact situation is to put a scope on and shoot.  If you have a spare set of rings, they will at least give you a general idea before you order something.

Vs

[Roadworthy]

Barrel droop varies by gun, with break barrels being more likely to have it.  I have two Diana break barrel rifles, one has severe droop and the other has none.  My Crosman Nitro Venom droops as well.

I'm afraid you're right there at "wait and see".

[dtdtdtdt]

Frightening title:  Last Post - is the cemetery in some circles.  You had me worried.

Everything about droop - hmmm!  Do you have  a couple years?

I suggest that you do a search on this and other air-gun websites about droop.  There have been several recent discussions about it that might help you.

In a nutshell:  droop has two sources - first mechanical alignment of the barrel with the receiver and second optical alignment of the scope's visual axis with the bore.  This is likely the most important source of droop.

The first one is probably worse with break-barrels but it may possible to adjust some of it away(don't ask me how.  I haven't needed to do it.)  I don't own a break-barrel anymore.  My Walther Chinese POS - first air rifle convinced me that there was a better way. 

The second one is the most important and likely culprit.  Air guns are so short range that the scopes normally can't adjust low enough to zero the rifle at 10-20yds.  High mounts with large diameter scopes make it worse. 

Solutions:

Adjustable mounts raise the back of the scope so that more of the adjustment range is available to you at short ranges.  Virtually all manufacturers make mounts that have droop compensation available. - The best and cheapest solution with lots of options - in my opinion.   

There is magic to shimming scope bases to get the droop out. Lots of discussion on how to do this on many sites - including this one. 

Another group argues that bending the barrel to bring the point-of-impact in line with the center of the scope's visual field is the best solution.  A bit scary to me - what if you want to use a different scope or mount set up?  Your choice though.

My personal approach is to use a smaller objective scope with the lowest practical bases to align the center of scope's visual field as close as possible to the centerline of the bore.  This will minimize droop at the outset.   I use RWS droop compensated bases with an RWS scope on my RWS 54 (notice a pattern here?) and haven't had an issue at 10-12yds.  My second rifle, FWB300SU, required a smaller scope to allow me to easily put pellets in the chamber.  The 1" diameter scope set nearer the bore works fine without droop compensation at all.

Good luck! 

 

[grauhanen]

Diana break barrels are more often droopers than Weihrauch.  I predict your HW80 will be fine with the one-piece mount you were planning on using.

[Hoffman9517]

Well I'm soon to find out I ordered my hw80! Hopefully Wednesday .. Thank you all for takin time to reply. Very helpful. I'll probably be getting a low or med height bkl for sure. Now just an etched glass scope.. Not sure where to go on that one still..

[TooJung2Die]

In a nutshell:  droop has two sources - first mechanical alignment of the barrel with the receiver and second optical alignment of the scope's visual axis with the bore.  This is likely the most important source of droop.

It took me awhile before the second reason for "droop" clicked with me. Why am I dealing with droop on a fixed barrel rifle when the scope and bore are parallel? Like you said, take the height of the scope over the bore and the fact the the pellet is dropping from the instant it leaves the muzzle and you have "barrel droop" at typical air rifle ranges.

Then there's often a slight downward misalignment built-in to many break barrel air rifles that creates an even greater need for some compensation. I use droop compensating scope mounts on the Dianas and bend the barrels on the Chinese airguns. Both methods are equally effective.

[Frank in Fairfield]

If your air rifle has a scope and it is zeroed at 25 yards+ it will always shoot low at 10 yards!
Why?
The barrel is below the scope.

My Marauder is zeroed at 25 yards, at 10 yards I hold 2.5 mil-dots above the point of impact.

Everyone does, IMHO

BTW If the R1 (I have one) or its offspring, the HW80, has barrel droop I will be surprised with the strong lockup HW uses...

[grauhanen]

A pellet's trajectory will ensure that it will initially be below the line of sight (i.e. the point of aim); then it will be above the POA; then it will fall below it again, never to cross the line of sight again.

As noted above, a regular mount will likely be all that you will need.  HW's can have barrel droop but rarely do.

[Booger]

No barrel droop on my 1987 R1, one would have thought that gravity would have affected such an old girl.

[TooJung2Die]

A pellet's trajectory will ensure that it will initially be below the line of sight (i.e. the point of aim); then it will be above the POA; then it will fall below it again, never to cross the line of sight again.

That's true... After you've adjusted the scope so POI and POA are the same at whatever your zero range is. If the scope is optically centered and parallel to the bore the pellet trajectory will always be lower than the POA. They'll never intersect. Droop compensation allows the scope to remain close to optically centered and reduces the amount of adjustment needed to get the POI and POA to be the same at your zero range. Scopes tend to work better when they're close to the center of their adjustment range.

[Hoffman9517]

Thanks everyone, got it last night! I'm not sure how to post pics on my iPhone though.. Have you guys removed a front sight from an 80? The screw comes out fine but it does not seem to want to slide off.. Don't want to mess it up applying to much force.. Also how do you guys store your guns? I've been keeping them in foam cases and I here that's not good and can cause rust long term. I put the plastic the 80 came in back on before I put it in the case. I plan on buying some rem socks. Any suggestions other then a gun safe I can't afford?

[dtdtdtdt]

Grauhanen (sp?) gave a simple and elegant explanation of how the pellet's path varies with distance.  Think about throwing a ball. 

If you haven't looked at it.  Hawke's Chairgun Pro ballistic calculator for air rifles is available on the Hawke Optics website FREEEE. 

It allows you to simulate shooting virtually any kind of pellet and calculate the path of your pellet.  It gives you charts and figures that show how the pellet path varies with distance.  I highly recommend it.  Others have similar calculators but this one has a database of a zillion different pellets and gives you an average starting point on velocity expected with the pellet.  You can insert your own information including velocity, height of crosshairs above the bore's axis etc.  They even include windage and elevation calculations using their reticles to get an idea of hold at various distances.  Fun to play with on a cold and snowy evening...  Better than TV anyway!! There are even tools in the program to calculate the thickness of a shim needed to correct a certain level of droop a specified distance!!!

Disclaimer:  I don't work for anyone and don't get paid by anyone so spend my retirement tinkering on stuff....