Talk me into (or out of) an HW50S in .177 (LONG)

[Franklink]

I think I want an HW50s in .177.

I’ll provide a little (or a lot) of background info on my journey through airgunning.

This airgun addiction started with a Crosman 1377, it received a steel breech and 24 in barrel.

I then went to a XS25 in .22 from Mike Melick @ Flying Dragon (an RWS 34 clone for those of you unaware).  I bought it without the tune and have struggled to get very good accuracy from it for about two years (light hold, tight hold, tongue to the left, tongue to the right during shot cycle, follow through, thumb placement, etc).  I finally lube tuned it, replaced the piston seal, replaced the spring, smoothed up the cocking slot, and buttoned the piston.  Big improvement but still I am lucky to hit a soup can at 45 yards more than half the time.

I went from there to a Disco in .22 with a TKO brake.  This gun has proven to be very accurate by my estimation of accuracy.  I shoot strings of 20 and I can get 1inch groups at 45 yards without trying very hard.  I have been so happy with how it came to me that I never messed with the tune.  I get 20 shots at about 22 foot pounds with a pretty consistent POI before I need a refill.  The only thing I don’t like about it is the length.

I then went with a Crosman 2400 custom shop carbine with an 18 inch .22 barrel.  I never even shot a CO2 cartridge in it. It went straight to a Hipac with 2 extensions.  It took a lot of work but I currently have it tuned to give me 20 shots at around 19 foot pounds before the POI drops much.  My typical 20 shot string gives me a 2 inch group at 45 yards.  It is short, light, and LOUD.  It was purpose built to be the gun I shoot out of my truck at my family’s stockyard/silage pit area.  I consider it my low cost bullpup.

The Disco and the 2400 are primarily used for hunting/pest elimination.  Usually the pests are Eurasian collared doves, ground squirrels, and starlings.  I also frequent a prairie dog town when they’re not hibernating and occasionally will go after a jackrabbit.

I understand that my airguns are pretty entry level for the most part but I have gotten a lot of enjoyment from them.

Now, for why I think I want an HW50s. I’m young and in decent shape so pumping the Hill isn’t an overly strenuous activity for me, but the nagging thought of pumping the two PCP’s back up makes me reserve them for hunting.   I just usually shoot the XS25 when I’m doing target shooting or plinking-and the XS25 isn’t accurate enough to be very fun (perhaps I’m the inaccurate one).

I have concluded that the very nature of springers is more conducive to putting a lot of shots downrange.

So, I am looking for an accurate, pump-free, stress-free, pleasing to shoot rifle.  Since plinking and target shooting make up the bulk of my shooting, I initially was leaning to the HW30s. I have run some numbers through Chairgun and I don’t think I’d be happy with the loopy trajectory of the HW30s at 45 yards (my typical target range) nor does the thought of 3 foot pounds at 45 yards sound like very useful for occasionally sniping a collared dove or starling.  So that is how I am arriving at the HW50S as a plinker/target shooter and occasional hunter if needed.

I have read everything HW50S and HW30S-related up to page 50 in the Euro gate.  Most of the reviews/comments rave about the accuracy of them both.

If you’re still with me after all of that:
The HW50S costs more than a typical consumer is going to pay.  Is the reason for the reported accuracy because only dedicated (read “good”) springer shooters shell out the money for it?

My other questions for anyone still reading boil down to:
How large of a group (please provide something quantitative like “inches, centimeters, etc”) will the average shooter (me) see from a HW50S in .177at 45 yards after figuring out a pellet that it likes?

I have a small, light 4x Leapers AO scope that I’ll probably put on it to keep weight down.  Is it going to kill that scope with recoil?

Thanks for reading all of that and for any advice you can give.  I’m asking for advice b/c I don’t want to spend $360 bucks on a gun that I’m not capable of shooting any more accurately than the XS25 that I already have.

[JimL911]

The 50S is a nice gun. Great size, weight, accuracy and power. The downside is the cocking effort for the power level. It is not far below the 95. I shoot at 30 yards and I can stay inside a dime all day long. I don't shoot it much since getting a 57 which is easier to cock. If your heart is set on it get it.

I will recommend getting a 95 with a JM UK kit. The 95 is almost the same price and it would be easier to cock.
Second choice would be a Diana 34 with a JM OS kit. Should be able to get gun and kit for about the price of the 50.

[lillysdad621]

not to be a naysayer but a b25 should be hitting the can at 45 consistenly... i have shot mikes b25 at targets way beyond that, and a can should be no problem... maybe rifle, but most of the time is us, and that an HW is not going to fix. The hw50 is good for target practice at that range, but hunting becomes somewhat of a challenge. most hw50s push about 11.5 to 12 fpe and will start to open up after 40 yards. opening up groups will give more of a chance that you might not deliver what power is left at the right spot. As stated above, i would jump up to a R9/ HW95, in either .177 or consider .20 caliber. And dont give up the 25... try modifying your hold til you can get predictable and consistent groups at 30 yards first. when you can group under an inch at 30, move it out to 35, thyen 40,and finally to 45. you'll be amazed at the capabilities of that gun specially after MM had his ways with it. Your other option would be a diana 34. but I expect you will have the same results as the 25 unless you polish up your hold.

[ancient1one]

The 50S is a nice gun. Great size, weight, accuracy and power. The downside is the cocking effort for the power level. It is not far below the 95. I shoot at 30 yards and I can stay inside a dime all day long. I don't shoot it much since getting a 57 which is easier to cock. If your heart is set on it get it.

I will recommend getting a 95 with a JM UK kit. The 95 is almost the same price and it would be easier to cock.
Second choice would be a Diana 34 with a JM OS kit. Should be able to get gun and kit for about the price of the 50.

x2.. I had the HW95 and still have a 34 compact both Vortek tuned. Being your in good shape I would recommend the HW95 over Diana 34 or HW50.

If I was buying a 45 - 50 yd break barrel in the $400 range it would be the HW95.

[Oldgringo]

I have an unturned HW50S that will probably be sent off for a tuning in the not too distant future.  She is a sweet shooter but she is more difficult to cock than my Shootist tuned Diana 34.

In this thread, there are a couple mentions of an HW95 being preferred over the HW50S.  Okay then, isn't the seemingly more readily available Beeman R9 (edit oops!) essentially the same rifle as an HW95 at about the same price point?

[RC1947]

I think Old Gringo meant to say a Beeman R-9 when comparing to an HW95.  I had an XS25 which was among the most accurate guns I've shot.  I also have an HW50S (.22) and you cannot go wrong with one.  RC

[ancient1one]

The R9 is around $50 - $60 more. I think its more because of the nicer stock. It has the stippling/design work towards the front of the rifle.

[JimL911]

If I cared about the stock I would get the 95 Luxus. Open sights and still cheaper than the R9.

[Txfish219]

If I had the opportunity to go after prairie dogs and jackrabbits, I would ante up a few more dollars and purchase the R9. Flatter trajectory and more punch! I do enjoy my HW 50, works well on starlings & sparrows, but would choose my R9 for the larger pests!

[stevemag]

As one who has had a love /hate relationship with an xs25 .22' I can completely relate. as much as my xs25 was a vast improvement over my terrible Steoger rifle. The one thing above all else I have found with my new love, (hw95) is the the German is very consistent.
I can't talk you out of getting one, as a matter of fact, you will be glad you got it.

[Jtlittle]

I have both th R9 and 50s. I enjoy both as the 50 is lighter and more compact. The R9 is easer to cock but both are great rifles.

[Oldgringo]

If I cared about the stock I would get the 95 Luxus. Open sights and still cheaper than the R9.

Thanks, Jim.  That's the one I think I want next.

[Franklink]

I appreciate the advice.   

Let me make it clear that I meant no ill towards Mike Melick or his guns.  I had nothing but excellent customer service from him.  Mike first sent me a replacement barrel for free after the first 2000 or so pellets.  Later, when I opened the XS25 up and saw that the spring was crooked and the piston seal was slightly nicked I tried to order a new spring and piston seal from him.  He shipped them to me for free. He wouldn't even let me pay.

"lillysdad621" seems to have reinforced what I think I already knew-I simply cannot shoot a spring rifle accurately any further than about 20 yards.

After about 5000 total pellets through the XS25, a replacement barrel, three different scopes, a Williams peep site, four weights of JSB pellets, four types of Crosman pellets, RWS Superdomes, a lube tune/cocking slot smoothing/piston buttoning, and every conceivable variation in hold I guess I will give up on my efforts to shoot a spring rifle accurately at longer ranges.

From most reports of the XS25, it is a very accurate rifle.  I have tried everything and can only conclude that the problem must be myself.

I was hoping that stepping up and paying the big bucks for the HW50s would be a solution. I suppose if I want accurate at more than 20 yards I'll just have to continue to pump up the two PCPs.

Thank you again, the forum saved me about $360 bucks in addition to, likely, a lot more frustration.

[lillysdad621]

non accuracy is not a terminal disease... a bit of patience and experimentation will get you through the 20 yard barrier. i would not want you to miss out on how wonderful springers are because of that. dont give up!, and by the way, owning a weihrauch is an experience even if you never pull the trigger to shoot it at all... (but you'll be missing out on the reckord too, so i dont know...lol). Sometimes i pull out my HFT rig (HW77k) and try practicing on the yard, and i find i could not hit the broad side of a barn at 5 yards... is an off day, that is it. so i go back inside, place my rifle on the table, pour some coffee and enjoy a cup of java with an ol' friend. memories flood back, great shootouts, awesome hunts, its all worth it. I would rather loose a hand than stop shooting springers...

[stevemag]

I appreciate the
Let me make it clear that I meant no ill towards Mike Melick or his guns.  I had nothing but excellent customer service from him.  Mike first sent me a replacement barrel for free after the first 2000 or so pellets.  Later, when I opened the XS25 up and saw that the spring was crooked and the piston seal was slightly nicked I tried to order a new spring and piston seal from him.  He shipped them to me for free. He wouldn't even let me pay.

"lillysdad621" seems to have reinforced what I think I already knew-I simply cannot shoot a spring rifle accurately any further than about 20 yards.

After about 5000 total pellets through the XS25, a replacement barrel, three different scopes, a Williams peep site, four weights of JSB pellets, four types of Crosman pellets, RWS Superdomes, a lube tune/cocking slot smoothing/piston buttoning, and every conceivable variation in hold I guess I will give up on my efforts to shoot a spring rifle accurately at longer ranges.

From most reports of the XS25, it is a very accurate rifle.  I have tried everything and can only conclude that the problem must be myself.

I was hoping that stepping up and paying the big bucks for the HW50s would be a solution. I suppose if I want accurate at more than 20 yards I'll just have to continue to pump up the two PCPs.

Thank you again, the forum saved me about $360 bucks in addition to, likely, a lot more frustration.

I loved my xs25 till I shot an hw98, the 25 is not sold or advertised as a bench gun. I shoot my hw95 better ,for whatever reason. Maybe it's the barrel lock up . When I miss with the 95 I feel it is me, when I missed with the xs25 it often left me scratching my head.

[tjk]

If I were to get a HW50 I'd try to find one in .20 and invest in a JM kit for it. I'm sure that would make it a bad to more easy to cock as I've often read the stories of it being a hard cocking rifle. They are nice looking small to mid sized rifles so one would think it to be a great all around multi purpose springer. Good luck making your decision.

[Not The Brightest Bulb]

Well at age 78 I shoot usually 70 to 90 pellets a shoot and I'm really not understanding the hard to cock program.

I love my Whylameina (assuming everybody names their guns) jump on a 50.

[Oldgringo]

78!  WOW, there's someone older than me on this forum.  I am stoked!   

[wjjones]

Well at age 78 I shoot usually 70 to 90 pellets a shoot and I'm really not understanding the hard to cock program.

I love my Whylameina (assuming everybody names their guns) jump on a 50.

78?  I guess I should feel like a wuss.  I'm 62 and I found the hW50s harder to cock than I wanted to deal with when plinking for hours.  If I didn't also have an R7 and a Walther LGV, both of which are easier to cock, I might have kept it.  I think you will find lots of guys who had one and sold it solely because of the cocking effort.

Really, though, the cocking did get easier after a while.  It is definitely a nice gun and I love the new stock.  It's the perfect size and weight for me, too, especially with a peep sight.

[wjjones]

Well at age 78 I shoot usually 70 to 90 pellets a shoot and I'm really not understanding the hard to cock program.

I love my Whylameina (assuming everybody names their guns) jump on a 50.

78?  I guess I should feel like a wuss.  I'm 62 and I found the hW50s harder to cock than I wanted to deal with when plinking for hours.  If I didn't also have an R7 and a Walther LGV, both of which are easier to cock, I might have kept it.  I think you will find lots of guys who had one and sold it solely because of the cocking effort.

Really, though, the cocking did get easier after a while.  It is definitely a nice gun and I love the new stock.  It was the perfect size and weight for me, too, especially with a peep sight.