FYI.....Scope mount screw torque specs from UTG mount.

[nced]

I never noticed this before but today I received a set of two piece 30mm Accushot medium mounts and noticed that they actually had the recommended screw torque specs on the back of the package. Nice touch that my BKLs don't have.......
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[Roadworthy]

Thanks for sharing, Ed.  It's something all manufacturers should probably do but I didn't know any did.  I've just been contacting the manufacturer for the info.

On the other hand, how many actually use a torque wrench to tighten scope screws?

[nced]

Thanks for sharing, Ed.  It's something all manufacturers should probably do but I didn't know any did.  I've just been contacting the manufacturer for the info.

On the other hand, how many actually use a torque wrench to tighten scope screws?

I bought a torque driver a while back after damaging the tube of a Vortex diamondback scope and now use it for all my R9 screw tightening.
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
I found it hard to believe but I damaged the Diamondback using only moderate pressure on the leg of the allen wrench on the screws of double strap BKL mounts! I've since learned that even 15 INCH pounds of torque on the rather large #8-32 fine thread screws on each end of a strap that's a bit less than 1/2" wide can damage a scope tube! Since then I've been padding the BKL straps with cloth electrical tape and torquing the screws to only about 12 IN/lbs. Just for grins I tried a 10 in/lb torque setting on the BKL mount and the scope slipped with the recoil of my R9..........
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[Mateo74]

Good info, It is to easy to over tighten and strip / damage small screws.

[nced]

Good info, It is to easy to over tighten and strip / damage small screws.

I've damaged my scope tubes but never stripped a "ring screw" yet!
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I do have to admit though that I have stripped some BKL BASE MOUNT SCREW THREADS trying to get the sucker to hold position before I learned the "initializing trick", but I never stripped the screw threads themselves!

[Booger]

Thanks for sharing, Ed.  It's something all manufacturers should probably do but I didn't know any did.  I've just been contacting the manufacturer for the info.

On the other hand, how many actually use a torque wrench to tighten scope screws?

I bought a torque wrench because I want to take care of my guns and scopes, I have the same torque wrench NCED has. As a matter of fact I looked it up after seeing his. 

[nced]

Thanks for sharing, Ed.  It's something all manufacturers should probably do but I didn't know any did.  I've just been contacting the manufacturer for the info.

On the other hand, how many actually use a torque wrench to tighten scope screws?

I bought a torque wrench because I want to take care of my guns and scopes, I have the same torque wrench NCED has. As a matter of fact I looked it up after seeing his. 

As mentioned elsewhere.........what prompted me to get a torque driver was an exchange with Vortex concerning a Diamondback scope I sent in for warranty work. With the scopes return I had a note explaining that I had deformed the scope tube with excess mount strap tightening. I then called Vortex and talked to tech support explaining that I had never before deformed a scope tube tightening the "straps" by hand using the short end of an allen wrench, however I wanted to know how much it would cost me to return the damaged scope and PAY to have the tube replaced since I damaged the tube but Vortex sent me a new replacement scope free of charge even though I was the one who did the damage somehow.

Anywhoo.....I had ordered and received the torque driver and when I received a the brand new Diamondback I mounted the scope in a set of BKL double strap mounts using 10 in/bs of "strap screw torque" but the scope slipped in the mounts after a few hundred shots. Then I applied 15 in/lbs of screw torque to the BKL top straps and the scope didn't move, however I also noticed the tell-tale two strap indentations of of the BKL mounts on the new replacement scope.

[bubba zanetti]

Yes, thanks Ed. An easily missed but important piece of information when mounting scopes.

As a side note, pretty sure BLK has their torque values listed on their website, but don't supply it with the rings Odd but it is what it is.

BZ

[crosman999]

  Very important topic here that you don't hear about often enough!! Thanks for posting,major key in accuracy.

[jonhunt82]

you got me looking for a torque driver...  I am going to pass this deal on to you guys http://www.midwayusa.com/product/718023/wheeler-engineering-fat-firearm-accurizing-torque-torque-wrench-screwdriver?cm_vc=ProductFinding

but...".... can be used to apply torque from 10 to 65 in-lbs at 5 in-lb increments."

[cwlongshot]

I bought a FAT wrench about 3 winters back and have been using it since. (Same one Jon posted above)

I have found that torqueing my action screws on PB my accuracy has INCREASED!! I also like single shot rifles and there for end screws also respond NICE and FAVORABLY too consistent torque! 

On my scopes, I torque to the screws torque recommendations.

http://www.federalscrewproducts.com/torque-chart.htm

Hope this helps,

CW

[nced]

Yes, thanks Ed. An easily missed but important piece of information when mounting scopes.

As a side note, pretty sure BLK has their torque values listed on their website, but don't supply it with the rings Odd but it is what it is.

BZ

Yep.....the horizontal base screws have a 35 in/lbs max torque spec, but no spec for the top strap screws.

Scope slipping in BKL double straps with 10 in/lbs torque.
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Here are the tell-tale "double strap" damage left by torquing the BKL straps to 15 in/lbs.
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As you probably already know.......it's also a good thing to tighten the top strap screws a bit at a time alternating from one side to the other for two screw straps like the BKLs and in a criss-cross pattern like the UTGs.

[Yak54]

Hi Ed

So 15 in. lbs. is too much, at least with the BKL rings.  And 10 in. lbs. is NOT enough to prevent slipping.  So something in between 10 & 15 in. lbs. would be good.  I'm not sure the tool you showed is able to reliably give a setting between 10 & 15 in. lbs.  What do you say Ed ?

Dan

[bubba zanetti]

Hi Ed

So 15 in. lbs. is too much, at least with the BKL rings.  And 10 in. lbs. is NOT enough to prevent slipping.  So something in between 10 & 15 in. lbs. would be good.  I'm not sure the tool you showed is able to reliably give a setting between 10 & 15 in. lbs.  What do you say Ed ?

Dan

Hey Yak, I've been thinking about this too and since Ed knows what he is doing I think other factors may have been at play like the shot cycle of his rifle was too much for the BLK rings on that particular AG.

Anyway, here is what BLK says on their website regarding clamping the scope onto the base:

15.How do I know when the scope tube is properly clamped?
 When the oval shape of the ring becomes a circle around the scope tube and no gap is seen between inside diameter of the ring and the outside diameter of the scope tube. Important: Do not close the gap between the edges of the ring (the flat surfaces where the screws are) as this might crush your scope tube! Please refer to our technical data sheet for more information.



The base mounts are done to 35 inch pounds as previously stated from BLK.

BZ

[Yak54]

Bubba

No question that Ed knows what he is doing !  Just seems like there isn't much room for error between 10 in. lbs. where the scope moves, and 15 in. lbs. where the tube gets crushed.  And you and I both know that the majority of guys don't use a torque wrench for putting their scopes on, at least not untill now.  But I appreciate your input and the BKL info from their website, for sure !

[bubba zanetti]

Bubba

No question that Ed knows what he is doing !  Just seems like there isn't much room for error between 10 in. lbs. where the scope moves, and 15 in. lbs. where the tube gets crushed.  And you and I both know that the majority of guys don't use a torque wrench for putting their scopes on, at least not untill now.  But I appreciate your input and the BKL info from their website, for sure !

Anytime

Glad this thread got started by Ed as this is a very overlooked aspect in any shooting discipline. Reminds me of how suspensions are ignored in motorcycle riding.

BZ

[Yak54]

"Reminds me of how suspensions are ignored in motorcycle riding".  Yeah, I have a son who is a road racer, and he is always tuning the suspension to improve handling on his GSXR.

[nced]

Hi Ed

So 15 in. lbs. is too much, at least with the BKL rings.  And 10 in. lbs. is NOT enough to prevent slipping.  So something in between 10 & 15 in. lbs. would be good.  I'm not sure the tool you showed is able to reliably give a setting between 10 & 15 in. lbs.  What do you say Ed ?

Dan

Well.....this is the torque driver that I use......
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
I assume that the pointer half way between 10 and 15 would be "12 ish". By the way, using 15 in/lbs torque on the wider caps (almost 3/4" wide) one piece BKL mount caused no scope damage at all. I also find it interesting that BKL offers a "two piece style single mount" with THREE of the rather narrow top straps like this........
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Kinda makes me think that others have had scope slipping issues when the screw torque didn't mar the scope tube or it wouldn't be a seller.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/bkl-single-1-triple-strap-ring-3-8-or-11mm-dovetail-1-53-long-black?a=5400
Anywhoo....I've actually seen guns with TWO of these "triple strapers" holding their scope!

[nced]

Bubba

No question that Ed knows what he is doing !  Just seems like there isn't much room for error between 10 in. lbs. where the scope moves, and 15 in. lbs. where the tube gets crushed.  And you and I both know that the majority of guys don't use a torque wrench for putting their scopes on, at least not untill now.  But I appreciate your input and the BKL info from their website, for sure !

I do wonder if the brand of scope also enters into the mix. The Vortex Diamondback is a relatively light scope so PERHAPS scope tube material, or even the wall thickness, could be involved.

I'm ATTEMPTING to show the condition BKL states as......
"15.How do I know when the scope tube is properly clamped?
When the oval shape of the ring becomes a circle around the scope tube and no gap is seen between inside diameter of the ring and the outside diameter of the scope tube. Important: Do not close the gap between the edges of the ring (the flat surfaces where the screws are) as this might crush your scope tube! Please refer to our technical data sheet for more information."

Just for grins I took a 1" tube scope and mounted a BKL "double strapper" to it and took a couple pics. This pic shows the top strap with NO screw torque.
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Now here is a pic that shows the "circle around the scope tube and no gap is seen between inside diameter of the ring and the outside diameter of the scope"
Personally.......it was very hard for ME to actually SEE at what point the straps are tight to the scope tube, but it does indeed seem that the fit in the second pic assumed "no gap" was achieved at 10 in/lbs of torque..........
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Here is another "oddity" with my set of 1" two piece BKL mounts......the anodizing is literally worn away on the front and rear edges of the base saddle.........
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Anywhoo.....I really don't know what all this means except to start at 10 in/lbs of torque, shoot a few hundred shots and if the scope shifts in the rings add a couple more in/lbs till the shifting stops.

As a side note....my R9 is tuned to shoot 8.4 grain 4.52mm JSB Exacts at 850ish fps (about 13 1/2 fpe).

[nced]

For decades I used the "real snug with two fingers on the short end of an allen wrench" to torque the top strap screws of my mounts. I never had any issues till I used the double strap BKLs with my Diamondback scope and the damage prompted me to buy the torque driver.

I just did a little  "fer grins" test bay taking my BKL mount and tightened the top strap screws as tight as I could with two fingers. Then I set my torque driver to 15 in/lbs and found that the screw would tighten about 1/8th turn more with the driver.

After loosening the screw I again tightened it as tight as my two 68 year old fingers could on the short end of the allen wrench and found that when my torque driver was set at 10 in/lbs, the finger tightened screw wouldn't tighten any more. This leads me to believe that my decades old practice of using the short end of the allen wrench for top strap tightening was indeed 12 in/lbs ish and why I never had any issues in all those years. Now I REALLY wonder how I damaged the Diamondback tube by two finger torquing on the short end of the allen wrench! LOL....y'all strength will most surely vary but "short end torquing" does indeed seem usable in the absence of a torque driver! I know my brother doesn't even try to tighten his scope straps as tight as possible, he only snugs them down firmly a little at a time in an alternate pattern.