What advantages do a 20 to 25 FPE PCP have over a 20 to 25FPE pumper? That is assuming equal accuracy.
Quote from: DavidS on January 13, 2015, 11:03:53 PMWhat advantages do a 20 to 25 FPE PCP have over a 20 to 25FPE pumper? That is assuming equal accuracy.If indeed having the same accuracy, I would say the act of pumping--particularly the type of pumping that is generally required to charge a >20fpe pumper--degrades ones ability to achieve a steady hold. There's just no cheating the effects of heart rate, respiration, and muscle fatigue. That is not to say that it will necessarily be enough of an effect to dramatically degrade the shooter's performance, but even if you're an Olympic caliber athlete with a resting heart rate of 45bpm, physical exertion of any amount will have at least some effect.
That's true, if I'm stalking a squirrel, I'm not going to wait until I'm within range and then clack, clack, clack my pumper. In most small game hunting situations, that one shot is sufficient but there have been plenty of times that I have taken multiple squirrels back to back by virtue of being able to quickly chamber another pellet in a PCP rifle. If I were instead holding a >20fpe pumper, I have to be concerned about both the sound of pumping and the time it takes to put enough pumps into it that I can take that second shot. Plus there's always a little adrenaline flowing in those situations, so combine that with the physical effects of pumping and I'm also at a disadvantage from a hold and trigger control perspective.
if you're hunting i don't see where the pumping of the MSP is a issue , just pump it up as you enter the woods or leave your yard . why wait till you see something to shoot to start pumping ? unless something is wrong with the MSP it should hold the charge for days if not weeks or maybe longer . if noise is the problem in the hunting area .... the fuzzy side of velcro makes a big difference , FWIU felt tabs work well too . my walnut pump arm is quieter than the DBO arm that came with it but that can be muted some too by filling in the hollow areas with permatex . but a PCP gives some bragging rights ....... till you run out of air with no pump . hehehe @ darksiders
I'm a little puzzled by the apparent double standard about shot counts and availability of "fuel".In making an argument in favor of an MSP it is often cited that in a hunting situation, one shot is enough.But then turn around and cite running out of air in a PCP is a disadvantage. In all but the most unusual of circumstances, 50 to 100 shots is simply not a real limitation.
Quote from: nervoustrigger on January 14, 2015, 12:00:43 AMI'm a little puzzled by the apparent double standard about shot counts and availability of "fuel".In making an argument in favor of an MSP it is often cited that in a hunting situation, one shot is enough.But then turn around and cite running out of air in a PCP is a disadvantage. In all but the most unusual of circumstances, 50 to 100 shots is simply not a real limitation.I can only speak for those that I know how hunt. A few times per year it is time for hunting trips, leaving behind all roads, cars, etc, etc for weeks at a time. Thus giving the big stock piles of meat.With a PCP you will run out of air. And remember you have to carry all of your prey plus what ever you use to preserve your prey to last till you get home, so carrying an air pump or air tank is a bad idea.
I disagree that PCPs have to be heavier than pumpers, and offer in evidence my Grouse Gun.... It uses a 2260 tube....Virtually identical in weight, and identical in size and layout to my Uber-Carbine, which uses a 2200 tube and linkage....The former holds enough air for 16 shots at 20 FPE on a single fill, and I have never had to refill it in the field in 5 years of Grouse Hunting, despite taking my daily limit many times.... The latter is tuned for two shots of 12 FPE and requires 20 pumps to do that (10 pumps per shot).... While both of them are single shot in the photos above, I have since fitted the PCP with a repeater breech that holds an 8-shot PRod clip, giving me 8 shots immediately available, and 2 clips per fill, and this at over 50% more power than the pumper.... The pump linkage and piston in the pumper weighs about the same as the difference in the tubes....I think it should be pretty clear why I prefer the PCP for hunting.... Should I require even more air, I have a pony tank available which weighs less than 2 lbs. and will refill the gun 6 times, giving me enough air for at least a week of continuous hunting.... or enough to take over 50 birds (allowing 2 shots each, which is more than I use).... Our possession limit here, for a single hunt, is only 15 anyway, and I typically get about twice that in a whole season.... That one small tank will last me an entire hunting season and more....Bob
If those you know that hunt do so by leaving for weeks at a time, that is certainly not something I can deny.What I dispute is that such a scenario is typical, thus my comment about "in all but the most unusual of circumstances".Even for long hunting trips, most will be at a camp of some sort where one could certainly recharge a PCP in the evenings.And where the goal is to build big stockpiles of meat, I don't believe for a second that the typical hunter approaches that goal with a 20fpe air rifle. Not saying it can't be done. Just saying most hunters don't look to fill their freezer with meat by shooting a truckload of squirrels and rabbits. It is way more practical to do it with 2 deer and a hog, and if that is to be done by way of an air rifle, that is squarely within the realm of big bore PCPs.I say this as someone who has a freezer full of squirrels, but I did so because I enjoy hunting them. Most definitely not because it was an effective way to spend my time to feed myself and my family.
I find the pcp with more advantages than a pumper.your comparison regarding pumping does not fit all, I don't pump but even then those multiple pumps for multiple shots still outperform multiple pumps per shots.you don't have to have a air source on hand, many pcp's will provide 20+ shots, and if strictly hunting you can only carry so much if goofing around and wasting shots you still will gather enough meat. and with many pcp's one can carry a extra air tube or buddy bottle. I get 90 shots on my r10 way more than enough air.the only advantage a pumper has over a pcp is if the shooter goes out unprepared meaning a near empty bottle and no way to fill.the other advantage is multiple kills with a pcp and stealth, with a pumper it's shoot, clack clack clack until you build up pressure. what animal is going to sit around waiting for you to get a second shot after alerting any critter around there's danger around.the only advantage of a pumper is it's self contained. after that it loses ground on many avenues in my opinion.
Why not have the best of both worlds with a Millennium Pumper.....http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=77542.0;topicseen
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