No thanks Santa

[avator]

Betty Lou and I made a trip to WM this afternoon to pick up our prescriptions. Seen a display of crosman 760s for $34.xx each. Well, we grabbed a couple just for giggles. In a nutshell... these are going back tomorrow. I can't believe what they have done to this classic. They might be for some people but, not for us.

Merry Christmas ya'll.

[lillysdad621]

why do you think that? i prefer the look of the old one, but have not shot the new one...

[DavidS]

I am curious also what the performance issues are with the new ones?

[Paul68]

Out of curiosity I've been looking at the WM offerings, as well as the better name big box store offerings. Seeing some unusual stuff to say the least. In addition to the low grade offerings as noted here, seeing weirdness coupled with low grade as well. Apparently the marketing guys are once again too comfy in bed with the accounting guys at these places, and its hitting the suppliers. In short, they see they sell a lot of something decent, so have their suppliers make even cheaper grade similar items they can buy for next to nothing, and push the beejeesus outta them at slightly lower prices. This looks like it might be a self correcting issue though as they'll likely see the typical high return and fast drop off in purchases.   

[avator]

Agreed Paul...... These things are 100% cheap plastic. I was amazed it actually shot a pellet. I thought it was a toy. They weigh about a pound and you can squeeze the thin stock and almost break it with your fingers. There is no windage adjustment on the rear sight unless you want to bend it. Pellet loading is near impossible unless you use the "strip mag". I could go on but I won't. I really wanted to like them. I'm sorry guys, IMO they are junk.

[avator]

Now this is a 760....

[DavidS]

I have run acrossed similar difficulties with AirRifles as well.   It seems like the low end to low midrange MSP rifles are mostely cheap.    Thankfully the Daisy 880 & 901 are at least well built on the inside (despite the cheap plastic stock and forestock on the current 880's) so there is some quality to work with there.

I take it they have changed the breach since the last version if pellet loading is more difficult with out the clip.   On the last 760 and 66 I had that both used the clips, loading pellets with out the clips was easy as pi (you know 3.14159265).

Now this is a 760....

+1

[Charles Outdoors]

   They have to know there is a market for a 760 built like the one pictured. The wood stocks even go back beyond my time. 1st 760 I seen was around 1973-75. I had to stand up and pump my Benjamin and it wasn't easy. My cousin had a 760 and we could sit on the fence and take turns pumping and shooting that 760 with no problem.
  I guess they figure there is no market for a USA made 760 that cost 100.00 + these days.

[Willydog]

I bought a 760 in 2001 and absolutely hated it and even though they were $25 a few weeks ago, I refused to buy one for my daughter.

I had a late 80's 66 I wish I had kept and fixed. I may just build up another 1322 carbine instead.

[ToRmEnToR]

Agreed Paul...... These things are 100% cheap plastic. I was amazed it actually shot a pellet. I thought it was a toy. They weigh about a pound and you can squeeze the thin stock and almost break it with your fingers. There is no windage adjustment on the rear sight unless you want to bend it. Pellet loading is near impossible unless you use the "strip mag". I could go on but I won't. I really wanted to like them. I'm sorry guys, IMO they are junk.

That brings back the memories of the last 760 I handled.. Without the stripper mag it was useless.. Never thought I'd see the day when one of the greats would be toppled..

[nervoustrigger]

No kidding, it pains me to see such a preponderance of junk multi-stroke pneumatics on the market.  It looks as though there is a glass ceiling at $50 for MSPs which have major deficiencies (compromises) in engineering and materials, while there are excellent values to be had in springers at the $100 price point (Ruger Blackhawk, Beeman RS2, etc.). 

It sure seems like know the major manufacturers like Crosman could build a $100 pumper that would be worth having. 

• Real barrel, not a soda straw.  Daisy, you listening?
• Stabilized barrel - Properly engineered to keep the barrel from flopping around and ruining accuracy potential.  Is it really so expensive to add a proper barrel band with grub screws to firm things up?
• 12fpe out of the box, with a long enough pump arm to give sufficient leverage to make pumping tolerable.
• Wood stock to give it some reasonable heft.  Sure would make it feel like it is worth spending $100 for if I could pick it up off the shelf at Walmart and not slam the box into my nose because I underestimated that I was picking up a broom handle.

I have to assume there is just no market for it when the same $100 will buy an 18fpe springer that can be cocked with one stroke, despite the fact 99% of the buyers have neither the knowledge nor the persistence to shoot it properly.

[DavidS]

No kidding, it pains me to see such a preponderance of junk multi-stroke pneumatics on the market.  It looks as though there is a glass ceiling at $50 for MSPs which have major deficiencies (compromises) in engineering and materials, while there are excellent values to be had in springers at the $100 price point (Ruger Blackhawk, Beeman RS2, etc.). 

It sure seems like know the major manufacturers like Crosman could build a $100 pumper that would be worth having. 

• Real barrel, not a soda straw.  Daisy, you listening?
• Stabilized barrel - Properly engineered to keep the barrel from flopping around and ruining accuracy potential.  Is it really so expensive to add a proper barrel band with grub screws to firm things up?
• 12fpe out of the box, with a long enough pump arm to give sufficient leverage to make pumping tolerable.
• Wood stock to give it some reasonable heft.  Sure would make it feel like it is worth spending $100 for if I could pick it up off the shelf at Walmart and not slam the box into my nose because I underestimated that I was picking up a broom handle.

I have to assume there is just no market for it when the same $100 will buy an 18fpe springer that can be cocked with one stroke, despite the fact 99% of the buyers have neither the knowledge nor the persistence to shoot it properly.

I would like to see such a pumper, I would save up for it.     As it sits, I have considered saving up for a Webley Rebel, though I am not sure if it is worth going through the potential 1 or 2 returns to get a decent one (would definitely have to take advantage of PA's 10 for $10).   That is the issue, the couple of really good designs do not have the quality control needed to be worth the effort.

There is a reason I stick with the Daisy Powerline MSP's for the most part, even they have there issues though.

[lillysdad621]

Real barrel, not a soda straw.  Daisy, you listening?
Stabilized barrel - Properly engineered to keep the barrel from flopping around and ruining accuracy potential.  Is it really so expensive to add a proper barrel band with grub screws to firm things up?
12fpe out of the box, with a long enough pump arm to give sufficient leverage to make pumping tolerable.
Wood stock to give it some reasonable heft.  Sure would make it feel like it is worth spending $100 for if I could pick it up off the shelf at Walmart and not slam the box into my nose because I underestimated that I was picking up a broom handle.

They did... iy was about 140 bux and we did not buy it... the 392/397

at least we did not buy 16 million of them... i got 1

[bubba zanetti]

No kidding, it pains me to see such a preponderance of junk multi-stroke pneumatics on the market.  It looks as though there is a glass ceiling at $50 for MSPs which have major deficiencies (compromises) in engineering and materials, while there are excellent values to be had in springers at the $100 price point (Ruger Blackhawk, Beeman RS2, etc.). 

It sure seems like know the major manufacturers like Crosman could build a $100 pumper that would be worth having. 

• Real barrel, not a soda straw.  Daisy, you listening?
• Stabilized barrel - Properly engineered to keep the barrel from flopping around and ruining accuracy potential.  Is it really so expensive to add a proper barrel band with grub screws to firm things up?
• 12fpe out of the box, with a long enough pump arm to give sufficient leverage to make pumping tolerable.
• Wood stock to give it some reasonable heft.  Sure would make it feel like it is worth spending $100 for if I could pick it up off the shelf at Walmart and not slam the box into my nose because I underestimated that I was picking up a broom handle.

I have to assume there is just no market for it when the same $100 will buy an 18fpe springer that can be cocked with one stroke, despite the fact 99% of the buyers have neither the knowledge nor the persistence to shoot it properly.

I agree with your ideas Jason.  I had a 20th Commemorative 760. Rifled barrel, wood stock and accurate! I smoked so many chipmunks with that thing. It was a workhorse and it was a great tool in teaching me the art of marksmanship. Having handled the 'new' 760's I knew right away I would have to get my older son a different air gun to start out his career on. I agree with what others have said: Why people buy them now is beyond me. Not accurate (compared to the old ones) and please spare me the speech about fixing the design flaws. I have to time to do maintenance on my AG's and shoot with my boys, not sit in the garage and work on AG's.

For 80.00 bucks my oldest shoots a XS-12 from Flying Dragon. Fun, very accurate mid powered AG for youth. The ONLY thing I don't like is its a springer. Its not very hold sensitive, just can't walk around with it cocked for pests. But for backyard, accurate shooting of army men, it works perfect 

I would add that 7-8 fpe, polymer stocks that are a bit thicker and a rifled barrel that is secure would do wonders for the 760. Keep the price around 60.00 bucks? If selling them for 25.00 bucks yields what we see, can't imagine the price can be that much more.

My youngest son, who is 4, is already being taught safety and the parts of guns for identification. He sits with us and helps sets targets and hands us pellets. I have been searching gun broker for an AG for him. Right now I have been looking at the older Crosman CO2 rifles. Why? Because after all these years they work the way they were intended too and built to last.

I refuse to unleash an AG on my kids that yields mediocre accuracy.

Rant complete 

BZ

[nervoustrigger]

They did... iy was about 140 bux and we did not buy it... the 392/397

at least we did not buy 16 million of them... i got 1

Agreed, but that's my point.   I look at the pains the manufacturers have gone through to get the price point down from $75 to $50, and from $50 down to $40, and now down to $35.  That just reinforces my assumptions that the MSP market is extremely cost conscious, and in comparison to the $100 springer price point, I think a successful MSP needs a $100 cap.  Not $130 - $150.  I don't think the average Joe will buy an MSP for $130 with 900fps printed on the box when it's sitting next to a $100 springer on the shelf that boasts 1100fps.  But if they can successfully market the advantages of no hold sensitivity (accuracy), ability to be pumped and ready to go (for pesting), lightweight, and not brutal on scopes (can save money there), then maybe more folks will reach for the MSP.

[stonykill]

 Bill, thanks for that short review. I have been considering one, against my own best judgement. I already have 2 760's, a 1997 and a 1975. So I needed another like a hole in the head. And beside in the last 12 months I have bought 1/2 dozen new Crosmans and every single one had quality control issues. So while out the other day i had a choice, a new 760 or a Daisy 35, both right at $33. I came home with the Daisy and was blown away at it's out of the box accuracy. And it feels solid like all of the older all plastic ag's. So thanks for saving me $33 on an Ag I would return. I'll just make my next AG a Daisy 901.

[silent_airman]

Now this is a 760....

Now you're talking! That's what I grew up shooting.

[stevemag]

my parents bought me a 760 for my birthday back in 1976 or so. i remember picking it out in the local sporting goods store. well , they hemmed and hawed because it was as pretty pricy at $37.00.   you gotta figure if its still that price today it must be junk.

[avator]

Bill, thanks for that short review. I have been considering one, against my own best judgement. I already have 2 760's, a 1997 and a 1975. So I needed another like a hole in the head. And beside in the last 12 months I have bought 1/2 dozen new Crosmans and every single one had quality control issues. So while out the other day i had a choice, a new 760 or a Daisy 35, both right at $33. I came home with the Daisy and was blown away at it's out of the box accuracy. And it feels solid like all of the older all plastic ag's. So thanks for saving me $33 on an Ag I would return. I'll just make my next AG a Daisy 901.

I kinda blame this on you Stony. After I read about your $33 Daisy at TSC, we went and looked at them. The clerk had them rung up and I was pulling the old credit card out when a light went off in my head and I had him take them off the bill and put them back. That's when we went to WM and got this garbage.... J/K about blaming it on you. Anyhow, I must have had a feeling because I told Betty Lou to keep the WM receipt handy. Here is the kicker, you ain't going to believe what I am going to do next..... About a month ago, I went and bought one of those APX NXG Umarex things for $50. I put my homemade peep on it and I'm quite impressed with it. I'm gonna take these toys back and get Betty Lou one of those.

[stonykill]

Bill, thanks for that short review. I have been considering one, against my own best judgement. I already have 2 760's, a 1997 and a 1975. So I needed another like a hole in the head. And beside in the last 12 months I have bought 1/2 dozen new Crosmans and every single one had quality control issues. So while out the other day i had a choice, a new 760 or a Daisy 35, both right at $33. I came home with the Daisy and was blown away at it's out of the box accuracy. And it feels solid like all of the older all plastic ag's. So thanks for saving me $33 on an Ag I would return. I'll just make my next AG a Daisy 901.

I kinda blame this on you Stony. After I read about your $33 Daisy at TSC, we went and looked at them. The clerk had them rung up and I was pulling the old credit card out when a light went off in my head and I had him take them off the bill and put them back. That's when we went to WM and got this garbage.... J/K about blaming it on you. Anyhow, I must have had a feeling because I told Betty Lou to keep the WM receipt handy. Here is the kicker, you ain't going to believe what I am going to do next..... About a month ago, I went and bought one of those APX NXG Umarex things for $50. I put my homemade peep on it and I'm quite impressed with it. I'm gonna take these toys back and get Betty Lou one of those.

   Lol. Tiss alright...I'll take the blame. Seriously tho.... the 35 rocks. I have been wondering if the Umarex was any good. Now Iknow