ever try to put new guts in old 880? i just did and it works! 3rd update!

[tweedking]

as i have acquired an old daisy 880 (confirmed by daisy as manufactured in oct - '74) that does not hold air, i am looking to rebuild. JGAirguns has the old (pre-'95) parts, but it would end up being more than $30 + sipping.

here is the thought. can i put the guts of a new 880 (barrel/vale-housing, exhaust-valve, pump-tube, piston assembly, etc.) into the old metal-receiver / housing? ever try?

as far as i can tell, the only things that have ever changed with the 880 is the exhaust valve and inlet seal, but if the vale-body is switched the new parts should fit.  maybe i should build me a 1974 "resto-mod" daisy 880+riffling.....

thanks,
rob

[stonykill]

 I have always wondered the same. But have no idea.

[Bryan Heimann]

i think it's worth $30 to get a good oldie like that back in working order

[stonykill]

agreed

[BigTinBoat]

Rob,

There is a chance it might fit, but no likely without significant modification to the receiver. I broke the bolt on one of my 2 metal guns and got a newer bolt. I had to do quite a bit of dremel work to get the bolt to fit. Don't remember exactly what I did but I'm sure it was metal removal on both the valve/action "and" the receiver. It does still shoot but I haven't tinkered with them in a while. I have one gun assembled and the other is in parts.
Since I have gotten into the Hammerli 850 and have a QB78 on the way to bottle I have decided to box up everything I have for my metal 880's and ship them to DavidS.
Seeing his passion for the MSP Daisy's, and only ever having experienced the plastic ones I know that he will appreciate them more than anyone I know.

For anyone who has had the guns apart you will see that there are several "inconspicuous" differences between the different guns. Some differences I've seen on line and others  I've found my self.
One that I've never seen anyone point out is in the receivers. Between my 881 and 880 (both metal receivers, but one pressed barrel and the other clamped barrel) you can't just take off one side of the receiver and put it on the other gun. Reason? Stock screw is on different side.
See below pic

[Nod]

I posted this awhile back but I think it's still good. As I recall the parts were $16. This is for the old metal frame.


Here's the guy that has the parts for the 880.  Just give him a call. He doesn't take credit cards so a check works. His wife said that it contains all of the parts necessary to re-build the air pressure to new, plus a drawing on how to install.


Jim or Ann Coplen
5522 Clearwater Rd NW
PO BOX 7297
Rochester MN 55903   (call for parts)   
507-281-2314

[JMJ in NC]

i think it's worth $30 to get a good oldie like that back in working order

I just rebuilt a 977 (880 with rifles barrel and precision sights) for a friend. Gun was all metal except for the stock and forearm sides. Rebuild parts were from Bryan & Associates, about $33 shipped.

IIRC, there have been as many as 7 revisions to the design, so rebuilder beware.

JMJ

[FiveHole]

I ordered 3 seal kits, valves and bolt probes for my metal receiver/pump handled 1977-880 and 1983-881 - all from Mr. Coplen.
Called Mr. Coplen on the phones and chatted a bit. Nice guy. Wouldn't think twice about getting the parts from him again.


The kits come with a diagram showing where all the parts go. It isn't a step by step tutorial, but it is simple enough to figure out. You will need to compress the rubber seal in order to fit it on the pump arm. I used a padded vise. Very easy airgun to reseal.


Fix the old 880 correctly. You will be glad you did. No sense butchering it up.

I posted this awhile back but I think it's still good. As I recall the parts were $16. This is for the old metal frame.

Here's the guy that has the parts for the 880.  Just give him a call. He doesn't take credit cards so a check works. His wife said that it contains all of the parts necessary to re-build the air pressure to new, plus a drawing on how to install.


Jim or Ann Coplen
5522 Clearwater Rd NW
PO BOX 7297
Rochester MN 55903   (call for parts)   
507-281-2314

[tweedking]

well i took my old 880 (1974 rodgers, ark) and new 880 (2014-china) down. after a careful comparison i concluded that, yes it will work. the only thing that has really changed inside the receiver is that the old 880 has a part that guides bb's from getting stuck in the upper right corner of the receiver. on the new plastic-receiver 880 this guide is molded into the receiver half.

that said, i took the newer barrel/valve/trigger/pump-tube assembly, the piston, and the bolt (but not the bolt handle and replaced that same parts in the old 880. the new bolt was made slightly too wide so i trimmed it just a tad to slide easier. done deal. it works but I'll test for accuracy tomorrow....

[stonykill]

 Good to know

[DavidS]

While it would likely work, you can order the new seals from Daisy (I think it is something like $10 total), and use the cup seal, and the O-Rings can be used directly, the valve stem requires removong the C clip on the new one and old one and actually switching the valve stems.   I just finished this with an old 881, and it works like a charm.

For the cup seal, you have to be careful mating it to the flat metal plate in the old 880.

[tweedking]

the things that haven't changed and things that have:

externally: the butt-stock material has changed thru the years but the shape of this stock has not. the only change i can perceive in the butt-stock is that the new style has a threaded bushing to accept screws from both sides, where as the old one has a post molded into the right side of the receiver to accept a screw from the left side only. the fore-grips have changed the way they attach to the frame-rail, and they have grown in width with the newer incarnation.

frame-rail: other than the "slide-on" attachment to the fore-stock sides, absolutely no changes in drilled holes or other dimensions.

Receiver: 97% the same. like i have mentioned, the metal receiver has a post molded into the right side to accept a screw from the left, to hold the butt-stock. the plastic receiver relocates the bb guide from the barrel/valve-body/trigger-group/pump-tube assembly into the mold on the right side of the receiver. (this guide is seen as a diagonal wall on the right side of a plastic reciever or on the top of an old valve-body. all that this guide does is to prevent BB's in the loading port from getting stuck the the top right corner of the BB bay) WARNING: the loading port on a new 880 is .345"wide, the one on the old 880 is .238" NARROW. this made loading a pointed or domed pellet harder (Gamo hunter domed pellet is .253" long for example)

barrel/valve-body/trigger-group/pump-tube: barrel was smooth-bore without a crown, now rifled and crowned. no longer screwed to the valve-block with BB guide, now press fitted. pump tube is shorter and not meant to fit all the way back on the valve-body, to be pined to the frame-rail. the internal valve-stem has changed exactly once (and is interchangeable?). the inlet seal is different (also only changed once).

piston: the new one has a small slot in the piston face, the old one don't, otherwise, same dimensions, same seals, same, same, same...

pump arm: old metal one has a different way to stay closed than the new plastic one but is the same dimensions and functions. and will gladly accept the new-style (same-style) piston.

sights: the front sight is much tighter on the old 880 then the new one. no room for even one layer of "tape-mod."

overall: the old 880 seems to have tighter tolerances in the manufacturing process, the front sight is a good example. another example is the bolt-probe, which is just slightly wider on the new one, probably in order to take up some of the slack created by the plastic receiver.

just my observances, i finally got around to answering my own question....

thanks,
rob

[BigTinBoat]

Receiver: 97% the same. like i have mentioned, the metal receiver has a post molded into the right side to accept a screw from the left, to hold the butt-stock. the plastic receiver relocates the bb guide from the barrel/valve-body/trigger-group/pump-tube assembly into the mold on the right side of the receiver. (this guide is seen as a diagonal wall on the right side of a plastic reciever or on the top of an old valve-body. all that this guide does is to prevent BB's in the loading port from getting stuck the the top right corner of the BB bay) WARNING: the loading port on a new 880 is .345"wide, the one on the old 880 is .238" NARROW. this made loading a pointed or domed pellet harder (Gamo hunter domed pellet is .253" long for example)

There are other differences among the metal receivers. Some screw from the right, and others from the left. See the below pic. On the one that screws from the "left" (bottom receiver) the trigger guard is metal and is integrated with the left half of the receiver. The one that screws from the right has a separate plastic trigger guard. There is also a difference in the area of the loading port. Notice the "extra piece on the left side of the loading port on the bottom receiver.

[tweedking]

is that an 880 or an 881?
also what year is that (late '80s)?

sorry i didn't think to notice the trigger guards. they are identical in my guns (part of the right side of the receiver). comparing guns of different vintages may start to show an evolution of the design as they were produced in rodgers, ark, then a reversion back when sent to china for retooling to plastic receiver.

i know that the early 880 (mine is sn# K4XXXXX, and is confirmed by daisy to be nov, 1974, that's production year #2)) and 881 had stock screws from different sides, but they are not both 880's. my new one was made in 2014 (32 years into production).

[DavidS]

is that an 880 or an 881?
also what year is that (late '80s)?

sorry i didn't think to notice the trigger guards. they are identical in my guns (part of the right side of the receiver). comparing guns of different vintages may start to show an evolution of the design as they were produced in rodgers, ark, then a reversion back when sent to china for retooling to plastic receiver.

i know that the early 880 (mine is sn# K4XXXXX, and is confirmed by daisy to be nov, 1974, that's production year #2)) and 881 had stock screws from different sides, but they are not both 880's. my new one was made in 2014 (32 years into production).

That is definitely an 880.   In fact it looks like the 880 that I now have.

[DavidS]

is that an 880 or an 881?
also what year is that (late '80s)?

sorry i didn't think to notice the trigger guards. they are identical in my guns (part of the right side of the receiver). comparing guns of different vintages may start to show an evolution of the design as they were produced in rodgers, ark, then a reversion back when sent to china for retooling to plastic receiver.

i know that the early 880 (mine is sn# K4XXXXX, and is confirmed by daisy to be nov, 1974, that's production year #2)) and 881 had stock screws from different sides, but they are not both 880's. my new one was made in 2014 (32 years into production).

While the gun is an 880, the receiver halves laying next to it are from an 881, if I am not mistaken also the one I now have.

As soon as the weather breaks for at least a day, i am going to shoot for groups.   At the moment I am stuck with indoor shooting.

[BigTinBoat]

is that an 880 or an 881?
also what year is that (late '80s)?

The 881 is on the bottom and has the screw as you said "from the left". The top gun is an 880 and it has the screw from the right.

And yes those are the 2 guns that DavidS has now. Not sure on the years

[tweedking]

(UPDATE):

so i put the old 880 (1974) together with a new power-plant (barrel/valve/trigger/pump-tube, piston head, bolt) and things seem ti fit kind-of fine but when i tightened everything down and shot it inside. oh, it worked, at 2-10 pumps it works and hold air. ok, so the scope-rail seemed a bit wonky, who cares it works. i took it outside and was mad. scope won't help this crud. another thing was that at 10 pumps the bolt would blow open, i took this as a fail to mesh the two halves of the receiver properly. this blow-open bothered me, as it should.

so i took it all apart and back again several times, did a pictorial comparison, and examined some more. i have determined that there are only 2 things keeping the power-plant from a new 880 (china) from fitting into a 1st gen 880 (rogers, ark USA).

1st-  the new 880 has room for the pin that holds the valve to the frame. the old one has a mold mark that makes it hard to get the two receiver parts to close together properly. (see pics 1 & 2) don't ask me why, both pins are the same size.

2nd, the new valve is too big here (pic 3). trim here (pic 4).

now it fits like a glove.

[stonykill]

 Fantastic!