Sumatra Sorrows...SOLVED!!!

[ezman604]

Not my first rodeo.
Not my first PCP.
Not my first fill by probe airgun.
Wanted to fill my new Sumatra 2500 and sling some lead. Insert probe and slowly open the valve of the cylinder. Air slowly leaks out the opposite side of the fill port. Tried putting probe in the opposite side, same thing. Shouldn't have to, but replaced the probe O-rings, added a touch of silicone grease and tried again. No joy.
It APPEARS the check valve is frozen shut? Will not accept air at all.
Oh well, anybody else have this happen?
Oh, also tried with cocking lever open. Nope...
Dropped PA an email. Waiting to see their response.


SAFE & Happy Shooting!!!!
Dave
 

[dcorvino]

Hi
Does the rifle hold pressure? Or is air leaking while filling?
I had a problem with mine when I first got it,
My issue was the fill port on gun was loose.
I Just used a little Teflon tape and tightened the fill port.
Hope this helps

Dave

[Nomadic Pirate]

That's why I always get the 10x10 from Pyramyd, exactly to have this kind of things not happening,
small price to pay to avoid possible head hakes 

[dcorvino]

Sorry for the newbie answer Dave.
Good luck with the rifle,

Dave

[ezman604]

LOL
Appreciate the responses. 10 for 10 may not have worked for this one. It already had air in it when it arrived. Not a lot, but some.
They probably would have just shot with want was in it.
Air is not leaking out. It is not going in.
What it ACTS like is the fill probe (or O-rings) is not large enough to seal off the port when filling. Either that or as I said, the check valve is frozen in the closed position and will not open to let air in.
Guess I'll wait for PA response.
Darn...wanted to sling lead and Chrony this jewel.

[dcorvino]

Hi Dave
I just remembered an old post about a fill probe issue.
The person wrapped a little Teflon tape around the o rings and it seemed to help.
I just converted mind to foster fittings because I was getting a wee noise when pumping.

Dave

[ezman604]

That's a thought. I saw that someone else had modified to add a Foster fill into the upper tube. I'm not modding a brand new gun under warranty though.
Maybe after the warranty period.
LOL
But a great option. Will try the Teflon tape, worth a shot anyway.

[Ribbonstone]

The actual check valve is behind the fill probe. Not easy to get to as the tubes have those lock washers that are one super hard.

Anyway, if you get to the actual check, will find it’s a cylinder of something like Delrin, shaped like a short crayola crayon.  One end (to the front) cone tipped and the other flat ended.  It’s not spring powered, just a slip fit kept from too much rearward movement by a pin.

I say “kind of like Derin” as it doesn’t seem to be quite the same stuff.  Seems a bit softer (and in my case, kind of green colored…and I’ve never seen green Delrin).   Seems like it can become compressed/swollen over time (esp. when stored for a long time under full pressure) and not move freely back and forth.  Can stick one way or the other.

Had to take mine apart and make a new one from “real”  Delrin, which seems to have cured the problem.   Old one was mashed/swollen to the point it wouldn’t freely slide.

There are foster fittings that replace the fill probe.  BUT they are just foster fittings,  they rely on the same check valve as the probe did.


O-rings on the probe can leak, but  replacing  them is an easy cure. 

So if you think it’s the probe o-rings causing your problem, then replace them.

IF you think it’s the check valve, then try blasting it with a  fast/quick burst of high pressure air (if you have a  fill tank). That could free up a stuck check valve where a slow fill won’t.

[grobe1458]

I had a similiar issue with my rainstorm 3d fill probe exactly as you describe, it ended up being the o-rings, I ordered additional rings and a extra probe but used my fx probe until they came. replaced the o-rings on the faulty probe and it was better, used the new and it was perfect, on the original used some teflon tape in the o-ring groove and that one works fine.

[Nomadic Pirate]

LOL
Appreciate the responses. 10 for 10 may not have worked for this one. It already had air in it when it arrived. Not a lot, but some.
They probably would have just shot with want was in it.
Air is not leaking out. It is not going in.
What it ACTS like is the fill probe (or O-rings) is not large enough to seal off the port when filling. Either that or as I said, the check valve is frozen in the closed position and will not open to let air in.
Guess I'll wait for PA response.
Darn...wanted to sling lead and Chrony this jewel.

Actually on the 10x10 they fill to 3000 psi, check that everything works and there's no leaks and than shoot 10 rounds through the chrono.

Yep, well worth the measly 10 bucks

[Nomadic Pirate]

I would try shoot it down empty and than try fill.

[blackdiesel]

I put the foster fill unit on both my Sumatras and my Career Ultra.

[caniborrowsomeammo]

Pull the fill fitting, It unscrews. I used a phillips head screwdriver shaft wrapped with electrical tape to protect the fitting. Check to see if the Oring may have got booggered up and plugged the passage to the check valve. BTW I put the foster fitting on mine. It does not go into the upper tube, it just replaces the fill probe fitting- $20 at PA

[Ribbonstone]

Also a foster fitting, but I knocked the rifle over while filling and snapped the fill probe, foster fitting seemed the faster/easier repair choice.

However, as we didn't take the gun apart to remove the check valve, that foster fitting still works with the same check valve, so it's just an easier way to connect to a hose.  IF the check valve inside the gun is acting up, a foster fitting isn't going to cure it.

[ezman604]

Good info all. Lesson learned Manny. Next PCP from PA will get the 10 for 10 or 20 for 20. I wrapped Teflon tape (4-5 turns) around the probe and sliced off the center to not block the fill hole. Worked it into the port carefully. Started opening the valve to slowly let air flow. Leaks still out of the fill port, the opposite end from where I inserted probe. I DID replace the O-rings with the spare set that came with the airgun and had no effect.
What I carefully did, while keeping my hand on the valve and turned away from the fill port, was let the air flow and slowly crank the valve open. As I gave it more pressure, more escaped. BUT, the reservoir filled. It sounded as if I lost as much in leakage as went into the airgun, but I got it to fill.
May try the sudden burst to see....but will definitely order a replacement probe and O-rings.
Thanks again ya'll. Was able to fire off 4-5 mags of rounds. Gonna love this airgun even though having minor fill issues.

[ezman604]

What's involved in replacing the port with a Foster adapter? Drilling and tapping?

[dcorvino]

Hi Dave
To change the fill port just unscrew the old by putting something in the fill hole to turn it.
Once you have it off put the new o ring in and screw it on.
I think I paid 10'dollars from PA

Dave

[caniborrowsomeammo]

What's involved in replacing the port with a Foster adapter? Drilling and tapping?

Dave, see my previous post above.  BTW what caliber did you get?  .22 or .25?

[ezman604]

Oh, okay. So, the fill port actually has the same threads as the Foster adapter? From the looks of the cap of the fill port it would be quite larger.
Most definitely will order the adapter and change it then. Keep the original port just in case.

Does this one have a quick drain process or just have to shoot it out of air?

[blackdiesel]

What's involved in replacing the port with a Foster adapter? Drilling and tapping?

Just unscrew the probe by putting a screw driver through the hole and screw in the foster.  You don't even have to let the air out.