H&N Grizzly bullets?

[KnifeMaker]

Manny, I'm not sure that they dropped the ball at all. Why would you expect a bullet designed for a smaller, German bore to preform in an over sized Korean Bore?  You wouldn't shoot a 9mm nato in a .357 S&W Would you?

Did they screw up on these calibers? Nope! Not by a LONG shot!   Why would the shooters not check the dia. just like we do for our own cast bullets. We find a proper bbl. and size accordingly.  Expecting every combination to work flawlessly is a pipe dream.

If pellet gun shooters are going to shoot bullets, they are going to have to do their homework. And not just assume that the different manufacturers are going to do it all for them.

Knife   

[Nomadic Pirate]

Manny, I'm not sure that they dropped the ball at all. Why would you expect a bullet designed for a smaller, German bore to preform in an over sized Korean Bore?  You wouldn't shoot a 9mm nato in a .357 S&W Would you?

Did they screw up on these calibers? Nope! Not by a LONG shot!

Knife   

Well so far they aren't shooting well out of the European Cricket,

is there a production airgun out there with a LW barrel ?

The only decent report so far on those pellets is indeed from a Korean Barrel.

at the moment the wast majority of 9mm/.357 airguns out there is Korean,...a Pellet manufacturer might wanna take that in consideration when designing a pellet

[KnifeMaker]

Manny, I'm not sure that they dropped the ball at all. Why would you expect a bullet designed for a smaller, German bore to preform in an over sized Korean Bore?  You wouldn't shoot a 9mm nato in a .357 S&W Would you?

Did they screw up on these calibers? Nope! Not by a LONG shot!

Knife   

Well so far they aren't shooting well out of the European Cricket,

is there a production airgun out there with a LW barrel ?

The only decent report so far on those pellets is indeed from a Korean Barrel.

at the moment the wast majority of 9mm/.357 airguns out there is Korean,...a Pellet manufacturer might wanna take that in consideration when designing a pellet

But it's not a pellet Manny, its' a bullet. You have to match the bullet to the bore. You can hardly blame a bullet manufacturer for there being barrels marketed that are all over the place!

Bullet shooters already know this, but here it is anyway. You have to slug your barrel, and match the bullet dia. to the bore. Other wise, your not going to get the results you want other than dumb luck. And sadly, that just doesn't come along all that often. LOL!!!

Do you think all us cast bullet shooters just try to put a bullet into our guns un-sized, or checked for size?  Only a rank newbi would try such a stunt. Just because is is coming from a noted name in the "Pellet" arena it doesn't' change the need to follow the well understood rules of bullet sizing.  You have to do a little of the research and work your self if you are going to shoot bullets in AirGuns. Regardless of where the Bullets come from. 

Knife


 

[Nomadic Pirate]

Well, they still dropped the ball ,......since there's nothing out there that shoots them well

They should have made a .357 Baracuda instead


Leave the bullets to Homecasters or professional casters that can size them to your specs.


A big Flop in my Opinion from H&N

[Nomadic Pirate]

Hopefully they scrap them, go back, do some R/D and come out with a shooter like JSB did.

[William]

How is it possible they don't clear the Transfer port ?

if so, do the JSB do the same ?...you would think so since the skirt is even deeper.

In  my Cricket, the depth of the skirt on the bullet is so deep that the probe is not long enough to push the pellet past the transfer port far enough, so when you shoot the gun air comes up the port and hits the back side of the Grizzly and the skirt is so thin it bends it inward smashing it.

The Probe on the Cricket is really small in diameter almost like a needle, if it had a full size probe (or hollow probe) that pushed against the skirt of the pellet that would be better!

JSB's work fine The skirt base on them are only .10" deep. Just makes it past a little bit.
Grizzly's skirt base is .205" deep.

So any Pellet or bullet with a Skirt Depth over .10" will not go past the Transfer port in the chamber of the Cricket .35 Cal.
Pics below...

William

[Nomadic Pirate]

I see, WOW those H&N skirts are really deep, the pictures i saw show them really shallow, ...Makes sense now.

I don't see many current Probes pushing them far enougth to clear the Transfer Port

Yep, I think that H&N definately dropped the ball

[William]

I think if they shortened the base depth a little (filled it in) and made it a little heavier it would work great, I think there is too much weight forward of center! I am no expert but that is what I see and I don't really know anything about the logic of making bullets!

I am thinking if I cut off .10" off the back it would work good in my Cricket, of course that would make it lighter as well!
If I figure a way to cut some of the skirt off the back I will test them, just for the fun of it lol

Thanks
William

[rsterne]

HI Tom....

That's exactly what I was getting at.... The inside of the base on a JSB pellet is 0.13" diameter and 0.13" deep.... If the nose of the probe is 0.12", it would seat the JSB 0.07" deeper than the Grizzly.... If the nose of the probe is 0.19" it would seat the JSB even deeper while the Grizzly would remain the same.... I don't have any EunJins here to compare....

Bob

[Nomadic Pirate]

I think if they shortened the base depth a little (filled it in) and made it a little heavier it would work great, I think there is too much weight forward of center! I am no expert but that is what I see and I don't really know anything about the logic of making bullets!

I am thinking if I cut off .10" off the back it would work good in my Cricket, of course that would make it lighter as well!
If I figure a way to cut some of the skirt off the back I will test them, just for the fun of it lol

Thanks
William

I will try that, buy a tin or so and cut some of the skirt off, probably make a -/+ 70gr bullet, which actually would bet better for the 115-130 FPE powered guns

[microsalmo]

How is it possible they don't clear the Transfer port ?

if so, do the JSB do the same ?...you would think so since the skirt is even deeper.

In  my Cricket, the depth of the skirt on the bullet is so deep that the probe is not long enough to push the pellet past the transfer port far enough, so when you shoot the gun air comes up the port and hits the back side of the Grizzly and the skirt is so thin it bends it inward smashing it.

The Probe on the Cricket is really small in diameter almost like a needle, if it had a full size probe (or hollow probe) that pushed against the skirt of the pellet that would be better!

JSB's work fine The skirt base on them are only .10" deep. Just makes it past a little bit.
Grizzly's skirt base is .205" deep.

So any Pellet or bullet with a Skirt Depth over .10" will not go past the Transfer port in the chamber of the Cricket .35 Cal.
Pics below...

William

William, where did you get your Cricket .357? 
Thanks,
Steve

[William]

Here is 3 projectiles I chambered and then pushed back out with a dial rod, if you notice the JSB and the 105 grain Venturi have rifling marks all the way the full length, while the Grizzly only has rifling marks 75% or so the length of it. The part where the rifling marks stop is what hangs over the transfer port! You can look in the chamber with a flashlight and see it overlapping the port hole.


William

[William]

How is it possible they don't clear the Transfer port ?

if so, do the JSB do the same ?...you would think so since the skirt is even deeper.

In  my Cricket, the depth of the skirt on the bullet is so deep that the probe is not long enough to push the pellet past the transfer port far enough, so when you shoot the gun air comes up the port and hits the back side of the Grizzly and the skirt is so thin it bends it inward smashing it.

The Probe on the Cricket is really small in diameter almost like a needle, if it had a full size probe (or hollow probe) that pushed against the skirt of the pellet that would be better!

JSB's work fine The skirt base on them are only .10" deep. Just makes it past a little bit.
Grizzly's skirt base is .205" deep.

So any Pellet or bullet with a Skirt Depth over .10" will not go past the Transfer port in the chamber of the Cricket .35 Cal.
Pics below...

William

William, where did you get your Cricket .357? 
Thanks,
Steve

Steve,
I got it from Airguns of Arizona, and she sure likes JSB's even at 100 yards it shoots 1.85" groups.
I have some post and info on it in my profile if you want to check it out. I love it, just needs some lead ran through it!

William

[rsterne]

Before I gave up on those Grizzly pellets I would make a tool to seat them deeper (just past the transfer port) and try them again....

Bob

[William]

Before I gave up on those Grizzly pellets I would make a tool to seat them deeper (just past the transfer port) and try them again....

Bob

Good Idea, Bob
Tomorrow at work I will make me one, I think they will shoot ok, they dont do to bad in my Sam Yang and I know this Cricket has a good barrel for sure, not sure what the twist is but I will have to check that soon as well.
My new compressor will be here tomorrow so by this weekend I can do some more testing and get some FPS on JSB's and I want so bad to use those Grizzly's, they are about as neat and cleanly made as you could ask for!

William

[dyotat100]

Also looks like it has no taper on the leed in.

Look how the rifling pushed up the lead when stopping in the middle.

 

[rsterne]

Yes I noticed that, the rifling must be full depth right up to the front of the transfer port (or beyond).... I wonder why no tapered leade?....

Bob

[William]

Also looks like it has no taper on the leed in.

Look how the rifling pushed up the lead when stopping in the middle.

You are right, I may have to have that addressed. Hate to start taking it apart but ya gotta do what ya gotta do!

Now how does a fellow taper the lead, I mean I know how its done but is there a way to do it without a lathe and a special reamer?

William

[JTB530]

I purchased a 201 off the classifieds and while it was on the way I got some grizzlies from pyramyd. I just got the rifle sealed up yesterday and shot a dozen or so shots. I haven't been able to do true accuracy yet but killing an oil bottle at 30 yards was no problem. I pushed one through and there are clearly defined rifling indentions.

[KnifeMaker]

William, both Unrepented and I use rubber abrasives. I ordered mine from brownells gun smithing supply. It is about the right size out of the box. I use a corse dressing stone, and put it on the Fordum, (Industrial type dremel) and turn it to shape.

Just go slow, and use a fresh bullet each time you check it. You want the bullet to seat like the cork in a bottle. Seating snug when it comes to rest.

Knife