Millennium Pumper Production - *The Beginning* - And The Lousy End

[rsterne]

Definitely NOT regulated, the FX website talks about finding the "sweet spot".... The big difference with the FX is that it uses a 3-stage pump to achieve 220 bar (3200 psi).... no doubt a large part of the cost....

Bob

[aom22]

Seems, comparing them Millennium Pumper to the FX Independence is not quite as simple as apples versus oranges.
The FX Indy strikes me as more PCP-like because of its higher operating pressure.
Employing a lower-volume higher-pressure reservoir along with a higher-output pressure multi-stage pump for replenishment.

While, the Millennium Stroker is less PCP-like and more-like a true multi-stroke pneumatic.
Using a larger-volume lower-pressure reservoir coupled with a single-stage lower-pressure recharging pump.

As such, comparing a Millennium to an Indy may not be a fair or realistic comparision.
Rather, the Millennium is more-like Steve-in-NC's Air Conserving Pumper.
Lest anyone think I'm disparaging the Millennium Pumper ... I am not.

I very-much admire Steve-in-NC's modification of the Benjamin 392.
Save for the fact it is a single-shot in .22 caliber ... I'd like to own one in .177 or .20 caliber - not .22.
Rather, I'm viewing the Millennium Pumper from a more pragmatic perspective considering my intended purposes.

From my point-of-view, the Millennium Pumper resolves all of my perceived short-comings of Steve-in-NC's simple yet-effective design.
For-the-most-part, the repeating capability of the Millennium Pumper is the first-and-foremost draw for me.
Along with cost effectiveness, simplicity and, hopefully, ease-of-maintenance of a multi-stroke pneumatic.
And, embodies all-of-what American Ingenuity is known for :  no-nonsense usefulness, practicality and affordability.

[tkerrigan]

On the .22 barrel, no chance of corrosion problems between the steel and aluminum?  Regards, Tom

[CarsonRatSniper]

Tom, there shouldn't be...the barrels will be lightly oiled before being threaded in. A grub screw in the top of the breech like the factory steel breech will keep them from shooting out of index.
Electrolosys happens when water is present - the oil should act as a monolithic barrier between the 2 metals.
With regularly scheduled maintenance checks it should never be an issue...certainly don't just forget about the gun for a few years!

The space between the steel barrel & aluminum sleeve (.0045") will be filled with Jim's psycho epoxy...the 2 metals won't touch.

Mike

[aom22]

On the .22 barrel, no chance of corrosion problems between the steel and aluminum?

A wrap of Teflon-tape (PTFE tape) should ensure the effects of corrosive galvanic reaction between the aluminum receiver
and carbon-steel barrel should be minimized.

[Rdsail]

I doubt that there would be any electrolysis between the too metals. You need an electrical current running between the two for a extended period of time to see the effects of electrolysis. You can get good old oxidation of both aluminum and steel. You will see rust way before you will see any electrolysis specially because there is no currect.

[rsterne]

aom22.... The reservoir volume on the original Millenium Pumper was similar to the Fx (28 cc vs. 22) but as you say at a lower pressure.... On Mike's version that is increasing to 45cc, which is more PCP-like.... Steve's ACP, to the best of my knowledge, uses basically a 392 valve (which is only 4.2 cc), and he runs less than 1500 psi.... Virtually all MSPs that are pump-and-dump have valves that are quite small as otherwise they waste a lot of air.... quite the opposite of the Millenium Pumper.... For a pump-and-dump you should never exceed 50% of the barrel volume for the valve, and 33% (or less) is much more efficient.... For a 24" barrel, the barrel volumes are 15cc for .22 cal, 19cc for .25 cal, and 28cc for .30 cal.... The reservoir on a PCP (or ACP) can be as large as you want, because the timed valve conserves air....

Bob

[aom22]

aom22.... The reservoir volume on the original Millenium Pumper was similar to the Fx (28 cc vs. 22) but as you say at a lower pressure....
On Mike's version that is increasing to 45cc, which is more PCP-like....

Bob, my reference to PCP-like was with respect to the higher operating pressure of the Indy and the use
of a multi-stage pump to achieve higher compression.
While the the Millennium uses a much-more conventional single-stage compression system and works on significantly lower
operating pressure.
To me, the difference in capacity of the respective reservoirs is a direct reflection of the distinctly dissimilar operating pressures
the of FX or the Millennium.
I presume, the Millennium performs more at a MSP pressure-level ... rather than, a PCP pressure-range.

By-the-way, Steve-in-NC experimented with using a 16grm CO2 cartridge as a reservoir for his AoA 392 ACP.

      ACP392 as Self-Contained PCP: 6 shots - 606fps - ES = 6fps.
     

[pyroboy33]

aom22.... The reservoir volume on the original Millenium Pumper was similar to the Fx (28 cc vs. 22) but as you say at a lower pressure....
On Mike's version that is increasing to 45cc, which is more PCP-like....

Bob, my reference to PCP-like was with respect to the higher operating pressure of the Indy and the use
of a multi-stage pump to achieve higher compression.
While the the Millennium uses a much-more conventional single-stage compression system and works on significantly lower
operating pressure.
To me, the difference in capacity of the respective reservoirs is a direct reflection of the distinctly dissimilar operating pressures
the of FX or the Millennium.
I would think, the Millennium performs more at a MSP pressure-level ... rather than, a PCP pressure-range.

Not all PCP's operate at 3000+ psi, the MAC-1 USFT and the Benji Discovery are good examples of PCP's that operate in the sub 2000 psi range. A PCP would be a PCP if it operated at 100 psi, as long as it has a pre-charged reservoir and did not need to be recharged for every shot.  I think the Millenium is simply a PCP with a very small reservoir and a onboard pump.

[aom22]

Not all PCP's operate at 3000+ psi, the MAC-1 USFT and the Benji Discovery are good examples of PCP's that operate in the sub 2000 psi range.
A PCP would be a PCP if it operated at 100 psi, as long as it has a pre-charged reservoir and did not need to be recharged for every shot.
 I think the Millenium is simply a PCP with a very small reservoir and a onboard pump.

I believe the sub-2000 psi air rifles were intended to be dual-fuel capable ... thus, the lower operating pressure.
Should these sub-2000 psi pneumatics be considered more as CO₂ guns?
Or, HPA guns that operate at CO₂ pressures?

Now, consider this ... remove the reservoir from the Millennium Pumper design.
What would be left ... I would think, a fully-functional pumper.

Or, conversely add a mobile multi-stage high-pressure hand-pump to a PCP.
You have a PCP with an on-board charging mechanism.
Then, remove the air bottle from the design?
What be left ... a PCP or a MSP?

Certainly not a PCP ... by definition a PCP requires an air bottle.
A fully-functional MSP ... I'm not so sure.

[rsterne]

I realize Steve in NC experimented with the 16 gr. CO2, that's where I got the idea for my Carbine.... I didn't realize he incorporated that into the ACPs that he sold through AoA.... OH!.... wait a minute.... he didn't.... It only takes 8 pumps to fill the valve, so it's obviously only stock volume....

I guess you can call the Millennium Pumper anything you want to.... does it really matter?.... It operates like a Disco with an onboard pump and a reservoir 1/3rd the size.... I think that is what is important.... YMMV....

Bob

[aom22]

.... I didn't realize he incorporated that into the ACPs that he sold through AoA....
OH!.... wait a minute.... he didn't.... It only takes 8 pumps to fill the valve, so it's obviously only stock volume....

     

Right. The air reservoir in the MkII is just the volume of the valve body.

[StevenG]

Not all PCP's operate at 3000+ psi, the MAC-1 USFT and the Benji Discovery are good examples of PCP's that operate in the sub 2000 psi range.
A PCP would be a PCP if it operated at 100 psi, as long as it has a pre-charged reservoir and did not need to be recharged for every shot.
 I think the Millenium is simply a PCP with a very small reservoir and a onboard pump.

I believe the sub-2000 psi air rifles were intended to be dual-fuel capable ... thus, the lower operating pressure.
Should these sub-2000 psi pneumatics be considered more as CO₂ guns?
Or, HPA guns that operate at CO₂ pressures?

Now, consider this ... remove the reservoir from the Millennium Pumper design.
What would be left ... I would think, a fully-functional pumper.

Or, conversely add a mobile multi-stage high-pressure hand-pump to a PCP.
You have a PCP with an on-board charging mechanism.
Then, remove the air bottle from the design?
What be left ... a PCP or a MSP?

Certainly not a PCP ... by definition a PCP requires an air bottle.
A fully-functional MSP ... I'm not so sure.

An MSP is simply a PCP with an onboard pump. History is full of PCP airguns that operated far below 2000psi and carbon dioxide was not even commercially available at the time or were you under the impression Lewis and Clark simply did not want to carry a lot of CO2 cartridges around?

[rsterne]

Yes, I agree.... The ever increasing pressures we see in PCPs have a lot to do with the technology of the time, and the availability of that technology at reasonable cost.... The 800 psi of the Girardoni, with it's riveted iron tank, is the 4500 psi of todays custom big-bores....

Bob

[CarsonRatSniper]

Here's some more pics of the top ends...the barrels are threaded into the action, but have not yet had the leade and transfer port cut or the muzzle threaded yet.
The barrels are 25" long and there will be a nub at the end of the pivot pin/tube cap for a barrel band to fit over just Like Bob made on his original version.
The uppers will be attached by 2 bands and the rear 8-32 screw.
There is .010" setback of the barrel face from the stick mag.
Remember, these are just roughed in...they are far from a finished product.
Jim is cutting the tube radius today and drilling the 5/16" OD transfer port in the breech.









We are starting on the powertrain tomorrow - making valves and slotting main tubes.

More to come!

Mike

[Sfttailrdr46]

That barrel set up looks to be very solidshould allow for incredable accuracy

[rsterne]

I agree, that's the way barrels SHOULD be installed.... I like the idea of the front barrel band on a pumper, it just makes everything more rigid.... With our rear breech band going around the boss on the front of the breech this thing should be rock solid.... and that means deadly accurate....

These are coming along GREAT, Mike.... Give Jim a ^5 for me and tell him nice work !!!

Bob

[CarsonRatSniper]

I will do that Bob!

That .30 cal barrel sure has a big hole...LOL



Mike

[rsterne]

Yes, and it doesn't make very big holes at 50 yards, either.... I've shot more than one 5-shot group you can cover with a dime with that barrel and the 45 gr. FX (JSB) pellets.... with the 50 gr. Daystates darn close, maybe cover 5 with a nickel?.... Everybody that has tried one of our barrels loves it.... I know Mike at TJs has sold a ton of them.... Quite a few guys are reporting MOA at 100 yards....

Bob

[Sfttailrdr46]

  I want one in .357