Author Topic: Need help with R9 (Read 8179 times))

D Mc · « **on:** October 11, 2014, 09:49:11 AM »

Just wondering if some of you may be able to tell me if my R9 has a problem and if so what it may be. I bought it new and it now has about 3000 rounds down the barrel. It is smooth and eventually accurate. What I mean by that is the first few shots can be quite far off, as much as two inches at 25 yards. This can last for as much as 20 or 30 pellets before the groups come back to the zero of the last shooting section, at which point the groups stay tight and consistent.
This is a fun gun to shoot but I like to hunt also and cannot do so if I have no confidence in where the first shot will go.

Booger · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2014, 09:54:14 AM »

I have the same problem with all my spring piston rifles for 3 to 5 shots. Going from 70* to 90* or from 70* to 30*. I think it is just the nature of the beast. My R11 (same as your R9) is deadly accurate.

D Mc · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:16:43 AM »

Thanks for the quick reply. The weather here has been great so the temperature change from indoors to out is minimal. I also forgot to say that occasionally that first shot is right on the money and then starts to drift but eventually comes back to center after many shots.

shootist · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:24:17 AM »

With 3000 shots done, time for a tune. New piston seal & new main spring at the very least. Full tune with new spring guides as the optimum. Will make the gun last longer, shoot better and more accurate. Lee

Booger · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:24:51 AM »

Check all the screws. Scope mounts, stock & trigger. Do this before any scope adjustments. If you notice any loose screws remember Loc-Tite is your friend. Harley riders have know this for years.

Booger · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:26:36 AM »

Quote from: shootist on October 11, 2014, 10:24:17 AM

With 3000 shots done, time for a tune. New piston seal & new main spring at the very least. Full tune with new spring guides as the optimum. Will make the gun last longer, shoot better and more accurate. Lee

I do not think so, but maybe. Mine just came into her groove at 2000 shots. She is the 2nd most accurate rifle I own (but not by much).

nced · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2014, 10:43:46 AM »

Quote from: D Mc on October 11, 2014, 09:49:11 AM

Just wondering if some of you may be able to tell me if my R9 has a problem and if so what it may be. I bought it new and it now has about 3000 rounds down the barrel. It is smooth and eventually accurate. What I mean by that is the first few shots can be quite far off, as much as two inches at 25 yards. This can last for as much as 20 or 30 pellets before the groups come back to the zero of the last shooting section, at which point the groups stay tight and consistent.
This is a fun gun to shoot but I like to hunt also and cannot do so if I have no confidence in where the first shot will go.

IMHO.......quite normal, if the gun is factory lubed with old style factory parachute seal. If you clean the bore after each shooting session this also requires a few dozen pellets to stabilize the poi.
The R9/HW95 comes from the factory with COPIOUS amounts of tan grease and if the grease migrates past the piston seal it takes a few shots to clear the dieseling lube. Do you smell a Greyhound Bus Stop odor when you're first shooting that disappears after a couple dozen shots? If so then you're initially getting velocity fluctuations till it settles down.

What I mean by "especially old style factory piston seals" is that the old seals have a thin parachute edge, whereas the new seals have a thicker rounded sealing edge. Here is a pic of the R8 factory piston seal evolution.........

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Actually, the new style seal works pretty well.

What I did to minimize temperature induced poi shifts was to replace the factory piston seal with a home turned aluminium oring sealed piston cap, use a spring kit with snug fitting guides, and completely lube the gun with non-dieseling Dupont Krytox GPL205 or Ultimox 226 (the international version of Krytox).

At the National field target match I attended last week with my break barrel R9 shooting as the lone piston shooter in the hunter class (all other entries were PCPs) I still scored near the "middle of the pack" by the end of the two day 120 shot match.

D Mc · « **Reply #7 on:** October 11, 2014, 11:17:07 AM »

During a shooting section I do still catch an occasional whiff of burned oil with some difficulty in breaking the barrel open afterwards. But at those times the poi changes just a very small amount, nothing like the sometimes massive, two inches at 25 yards that I can experience during warm up.
This is a new, this year gun, purchased from pyramidair and had the 4x12 banner scope. It went through two of those during the break in and it now has a Hawke 4x16 varmint sf. I have no complaints on how it groups, when it has settled down but I just have no confidence that in the field after several hours of rest that I can make a humane killing shot as it now performs.

shootist · « **Reply #8 on:** October 11, 2014, 11:24:29 AM »

Booger may be right, try tightening everything down. If it shoots better, you have found the problem and then one screw at at time, Loctite blue All scope mount, scope ring screws & stock screws. DO NOT use Loctite red, you'll never get the screw out again, it's permanent!! But, I had a Walther Falcon Hunter go from brand new to a parts gun in less than 100 shots. Being me, I DON'T like OEM piston seals or main springs, no matter if it's a Gamo or RWS. New or used it comes down when I get it home, due to the Walther experience. If I had taken it down, might still have it. Having taken down 100's of guns, have yet to find a piston seal that hasn't been scalped, gouged, nicked or have holes and ground in metal along with bent main springs, new or used. Just my 2 cents - Lee

D Mc · « **Reply #9 on:** October 11, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »

I check all fasteners after each shooting section so that is not it. It has always been my experience that when something goes south it stays there so would problems with the spring, seals and guides cause random accuracy problems that will return to solid pellet stacking after warm up?

shootist · « **Reply #10 on:** October 11, 2014, 11:46:20 AM »

YES, any and/or all of the things you described. The R9 is a beautiful gun to the eyes and to shoot and should last you your whole life. But piston seals and main springs are consumables. It's like what spark plug and tires are to a car. From time to time, they will need to be changed. But if you do a tune while it's all opened up, it should go longer between change-outs. The tune will make it a more pleasant and smoother gun to shoot also. Lee

D Mc · « **Reply #11 on:** October 11, 2014, 12:00:44 PM »

OK, thanks for the information. I guess it is time for me to do some more research and try to get a feel of how much I can do myself and what will need professional help.

shootist · « **Reply #12 on:** October 11, 2014, 12:30:09 PM »

You will need a compressor for the spring, a metal lathe and possibly a milling machine for the guides. Other than that, gunsmithing screwdrivers if you don't want to gall up any screws, some wrenches and some lubes. All information is available in the GTA Library. Lee

D Mc · « **Reply #13 on:** October 11, 2014, 02:16:16 PM »

Quote from: shootist on October 11, 2014, 12:30:09 PM

You will need a compressor for the spring, a metal lathe and possibly a milling machine for the guides. Other than that, gunsmithing screwdrivers if you don't want to gall up any screws, some wrenches and some lubes. All information is available in the GTA Library. Lee

Well, if your intention was to scare me off, it worked. A spring compressor and screwdrivers I can deal with but if in order to produce consistent accuracy from a spring gun as parts wear I will need a metal lathe, possibly a milling machine and then learn how to use them, I don't see that happening.
Airgunning is not the only thing I do so investing that much time and money to get a straight shooter seems unreasonable. I chose a springer and the R9 in particular for its modest cost and simplicity. It appears I may have made a mistake.

stevemag · « **Reply #14 on:** October 11, 2014, 02:27:06 PM »

heres a video of the hw95 breakdown. should be the same as the R9.

Kailua · « **Reply #15 on:** October 11, 2014, 04:34:30 PM »

There are drop in tune kits from Air Rifle Headquaters and Vortek Products Inc. for your rifle and a tuning guide here in the GTA as some follow. Some like the Krytox or Ultimox as nced mentioned on post above which may take a different lubing application.
Here is the posted GTA lube tune guide by CharlieDaTuna.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=26274.0

Rico14 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2014, 06:05:57 PM »

I have two R9's. A .177 and a .20. Both have Vortek PG2 kits installed. Neither one of them has any problems with the first shot, even if it's been in the safe for a few weeks.

shootist · « **Reply #17 on:** October 11, 2014, 07:02:43 PM »

D Mc, didn't realize ARH made a kit for Beeman's. Sorry about that. Knew he made them for RWS and I've used them many times. There is nobody who makes better kits, springs or seals than ARH. He's also great to do business with. Make sure you get his lubes also. Now all you have to do is hone the compression tube, clean it up and install. DONE!! Good luck - Lee

tomykay12 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 11, 2014, 08:28:40 PM »

The R9 is an excellent rifle, and these springers are not like rocket surgery to operate on. Yours apparently has an issue which a kit and some lubes will likely cure. Please give it a try, tk

D Mc · « **Reply #19 on:** October 11, 2014, 09:17:32 PM »

Quote from: shootist on October 11, 2014, 07:02:43 PM

D Mc, didn't realize ARH made a kit for Beeman's. Sorry about that. Knew he made them for RWS and I've used them many times. There is nobody who makes better kits, springs or seals than ARH. He's also great to do business with. Make sure you get his lubes also. Now all you have to do is hone the compression tube, clean it up and install. DONE!! Good luck - Lee

This sounds good, I will look into it. I do appreciate everyone's helpful posts, thanks.

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Need help with R9

Author Topic: Need help with R9 (Read 8179 times))