Recommendations Please

[LAalex]

I would not worry about spring fatigue at all.  I've hunted with my springers for years now with no loss of power issues.  You unnecessarily limit your choices by insisting on gas ram.   If that's what you really want, I say go for it.  But, a well tuned B28 will most likely be a nicer shooting rifle than the others on your list.  JMO.

Scotty

[AHMSA]

I would not worry about spring fatigue at all.  I've hunted with my springers for years now with no loss of power issues.  You unnecessarily limit your choices by insisting on gas ram.   If that's what you really want, I say go for it.  But, a well tuned B28 will most likely be a nicer shooting rifle than the others on your list.  JMO.

Scotty

Thanks for the note.

[AHMSA]

Based on the recommendations, online reviews,... etc. I created the following table with the things I like or dislike about the different guns.  The main thing that I'm missing is accuracy which honestly is hard to compare between different guns especially that the same gun seems to be very accurate for some people and horrible for others.  When it comes to the review count and review points, I used the reviews on Pyramid Air's website since they are one of the largest air gun suppliers that I know of.  For the Hatsan 95 and 135, I've added the reviews from the perspective spring versions since they are essentially the same guns.

Those are five different guns that I'm comparing.  For a given feature, I gave the gun I like the most a 5 and the one I like the least a 1.  I then added the totals for all the features for each gun.  The gun that gets the highest number would be considered at the top of the list and the one with the lowest number is on the bottom of my list.  Creating a table like this has helped me in the past with making a decision when there are too many options to choose from.

	Trail NP XL	Trail NP2	Hastan 135	Hastan 95	Xisico Model XS28M
Power	3	2	5	1	4
Look	5	1	4	3	2
Weight	1	3	2	5	4
Cocking	2	5	1	4	3
Price	1	4	2	5	3
Review Count	5	2	3	4	1
Review Rate	5	2	4	5	3
Power Source	5	5	5	5	4
Scope Mount	4	3	5	2	2
Trigger	3	4	5	5	5
Open Sights	4	4	5	5	5
Scope	5	4	3	4	3
Warranty	5	5	5	5	4
Hold Sensitivity	4	4	4	5	5
Safety	4	4	5	5	5
Totals	56	52	58	63	53

With this information, it looks like the Hatsan 95 has the highest points.  I might go ahead and order one today from Pyramid Air.  I will give it a try for a couple of weeks and decide whether to keep it or return for something else.

Thanks for the help everyone!

[farmerjoe99]

If I read your graph right the higher the number the better right?
if so then I think the Xisico x28 if had from Mike at flying dragons
would probably be better suited with a 6 in warranty(or as 5 is max 5)
In EVERY problem I've read of he has gone above and beyond in making it right and is quicker
than most factory's can be.If you get a full tune tuned it should
out shoot most or shoot smoother from what I've read than most
off the shelf guns under $400.
I don't know much about the Benjamins but I would go with the hatsan
95 vortex or a tuned x28 from Mike.
Don't forget to post pics and a review when it comes
Joseph

[DavidS]

As for your requirements:

For the power with accuracy at those ranges there are a number of Gas Ram choises.    Though I have had many and gotten rid of them all.

If you want good very consistant accuracy at 50 yards and further you likely would be better off with some form of pneumatic.   Personally I would recommend a Crosman Benjiman 392 or a Daisy 22X/22SG, though I am an MSP fan.    The other option is one of the .22 cal PCP's, there are a lot to choose from.

Unless you are very very good I would not expect groups smaller than 1.5 inches C-T-C with a GAS RAM gun or Springer at 100 yards, though much smaller groups at 100 yards are easily doable with an MSP or PCP (subject to conditions, practice, and correct tuning).

[AHMSA]

If I read your graph right the higher the number the better right?
if so then I think the Xisico x28 if had from Mike at flying dragons
would probably be better suited with a 6 in warranty(or as 5 is max 5)
In EVERY problem I've read of he has gone above and beyond in making it right and is quicker
than most factory's can be.If you get a full tune tuned it should
out shoot most or shoot smoother from what I've read than most
off the shelf guns under $400.
I don't know much about the Benjamins but I would go with the hatsan
95 vortex or a tuned x28 from Mike.
Don't forget to post pics and a review when it comes
Joseph

Hi farmerjoe99,

I agree that Mike seems to be very helpful and to backup whatever work he does.  Maybe Xisico x28 should have gotten the highest points in regards to warranty on my list.  I will try to write a review for the Hatsan 95 after I shoot with it for a little while to get a good feeling of how it's working.

Thank you for your comment.

[AHMSA]

As for your requirements:

For the power with accuracy at those ranges there are a number of Gas Ram choises.    Though I have had many and gotten rid of them all.

If you want good very consistant accuracy at 50 yards and further you likely would be better off with some form of pneumatic.   Personally I would recommend a Crosman Benjiman 392 or a Daisy 22X/22SG, though I am an MSP fan.    The other option is one of the .22 cal PCP's, there are a lot to choose from.

Unless you are very very good I would not expect groups smaller than 1.5 inches C-T-C with a GAS RAM gun or Springer at 100 yards, though much smaller groups at 100 yards are easily doable with an MSP or PCP (subject to conditions, practice, and correct tuning).

Hi DavidS,

Thank you for the recommendation.  The Benjamin 392 is an excellent recommendation except for one problem: I already own one and I LOVE IT.  I don't want a PCP because I don't want to carry a pump with me in the field.

I would be pretty happy with a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards.  I wasn't even sure if it's going to make it on paper at that distance.  The farthest I am able to get good groups with my Winchester 1100 is 25 yards.

I ordered a Hatsan 950 today from Pyramid Air and can't wait to give it a try.


Again, thank you for the recommendation.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey AHMSA,
Maybe this comment is too late, but the model 95's scope is a real crapper, no way should it get a 4 (more like a 1).  Also, the 95's open sights are not very good either (more like a 3, but I can't see very well anyway).  Assume you will need to drop $75 to $100 minimally, to scope the gun properly, and you likely will not be using the open sights.  Lastly, give the 95 a 3 on power, it has a pretty good bite..........

Again, I love my 6 Hatsan 95's, but sure would like to try a Mike Melick tuned XS28.

Kirk

[AHMSA]

Hey AHMSA,
Maybe this comment is too late, but the model 95's scope is a real crapper, no way should it get a 4 (more like a 1).  Also, the 95's open sights are not very good either (more like a 3, but I can't see very well anyway).  Assume you will need to drop $75 to $100 minimally, to scope the gun properly, and you likely will not be using the open sights.  Lastly, give the 95 a 3 on power, it has a pretty good bite..........

Again, I love my 6 Hatsan 95's, but sure would like to try a Mike Melick tuned XS28.

Kirk

Hey SpiralGroove,

Thanks for the comments.  The values I'm giving the different features are not a "star rating", it's really how does it compare to others on my list of options.  I gave five points to the ones that have an AO, four points for ones that have a variable power scope, and three points for the ones that don't have a scope.

The same thing applies for power.  I gave it a 1 because it has the least power out of those five rifles not because it's weak.  I'm sure a .22 lead pellets flying at 800 FPS is going to make rabbits and squirrels unhappy.  For raccoon and bigger animals, I'll just have to use my 12 gauge shotgun.

Again, thank you very much.  You, and the rest of folks here, have been extremely helpful.  I truly appreciate your comments.

[AudiS4]

Out of those five Guns, the 95 is NOT the least powerful. There are light lead pellets and then there are ordinarie weight lead pellets. Hatsan use ordinary weight on there pellets, when testing fps. The XS28 is less powerful then a 95, so their 950 fps vs the 800 fps 95, is False advertising.

Get the correct data if you're gonna compare guns. Do not use manufacturers fps, since they use light lead pellets. All manufacturers except Hatsan does this.

[codytwoeyes]

For raw power the 135 will get the job done. That said its a bit of a work out to cock forty pounds or so. No I have the xl 25 cal the xs 28 22-cal xs46u gas ram. I would forget the np2. I just don't trust it.  My Xl is now a very good gun it however took work to get there. Of the three guns I will pick the XS28M to get the job done then the 46. You can shoot the hair off a natts  butt with my 46 . I like my Xl but its not a gun to start off with. As it has already been said you can get a fully tuned XS 28 form Mike at flying dragon for a lot less than the RWS 350 and just maybe it will become your go to gun. 

[AHMSA]

Out of those five Guns, the 95 is NOT the least powerful. There are light lead pellets and then there are ordinarie weight lead pellets. Hatsan use ordinary weight on there pellets, when testing fps. The XS28 is less powerful then a 95, so their 950 fps vs the 800 fps 95, is False advertising.

Get the correct data if you're gonna compare guns. Do not use manufacturers fps, since they use light lead pellets. All manufacturers except Hatsan does this.

Hi AudiS4,

Thank you for your comment.  I knew about heavy pellets vs. light pellets.  I also knew that Hatsan, unlike other manufacturers, reports velocity using real lead pellets. However, on Flying Dragon's website, it said that the XS28 gives a velocity of 950 FPS using lead pellets.  I just took their word for it.

My comparison chart is far from perfect.  I was just trying to put the information I collected on those rifles and see which one fits what I'm looking for the most.  For example, since I like wood stocks a lot better than synthetic ones, I have just removed any rifle with a synthetic stock off of my list.  If I was doing a real comparison, this would be unfair since a lot of people prefer synthetic stocks.

[AHMSA]

For raw power the 135 will get the job done. That said its a bit of a work out to cock forty pounds or so. No I have the xl 25 cal the xs 28 22-cal xs46u gas ram. I would forget the np2. I just don't trust it.  My Xl is now a very good gun it however took work to get there. Of the three guns I will pick the XS28M to get the job done then the 46. You can shoot the hair off a natts  butt with my 46 . I like my Xl but its not a gun to start off with. As it has already been said you can get a fully tuned XS 28 form Mike at flying dragon for a lot less than the RWS 350 and just maybe it will become your go to gun.

Hi codytwoeyes,

Thanks for the information.  I will consider the XS46U and the XS28M for my next purchase.  A lot of people on this forum seem to like those guns.

[AHMSA]

I just want to let everyone know that I received my Hatsan 95 yesterday and I LOVE IT.  It's very powerful and smooth to cock.  The trigger wasn't great at first but I adjusted it a little and it's better now.  I just mounted the scope last night and didn't get a chance to try it out.  Thanks everyone for the recommendations.

[Freebird]

 Congratulations!
 I LOVE mine as well. Hope yours is as accurate as mine is.
I've been watching this thread to see how well you liked it and I thought you'd be very impressed with it.
My trigger adjustment screws need to be the longer ones so I can get a little bit better trigger pull. Mine don't have any more adjustment left and I need a little more but it's not a bother the way it is. I replaced my scope mounts with a single piece Leapers/UTG mount (which some don't recommend) and it's working very well. I also added a Blackhawk cheek riser and a sling. You got a lot of gun for the money IMHO.

[mr.grimm]

It isn't a wood stock but you might want to consider the UMAREX OCTANE .22 CAL. I have one and it has been a great gun overall. It is classified as a magnum springer, it has a nitro piston and is very accurate  and hits very hard. The trigger not worthy but is very easy to fix. Mine has about 8000 to 10000 shots through it and overall has been a great gun. It is a steal at $219.00. If you get the Octane get some JSB diablo exact match 18.3 grn. pellets, the .22 cal Octanes just love those pellets.

[AHMSA]

Congratulations!
 I LOVE mine as well. Hope yours is as accurate as mine is.
I've been watching this thread to see how well you liked it and I thought you'd be very impressed with it.
My trigger adjustment screws need to be the longer ones so I can get a little bit better trigger pull. Mine don't have any more adjustment left and I need a little more but it's not a bother the way it is. I replaced my scope mounts with a single piece Leapers/UTG mount (which some don't recommend) and it's working very well. I also added a Blackhawk cheek riser and a sling. You got a lot of gun for the money IMHO.

Thanks for the information!

[AHMSA]

It isn't a wood stock but you might want to consider the UMAREX OCTANE .22 CAL. I have one and it has been a great gun overall. It is classified as a magnum springer, it has a nitro piston and is very accurate  and hits very hard. The trigger not worthy but is very easy to fix. Mine has about 8000 to 10000 shots through it and overall has been a great gun. It is a steal at $219.00. If you get the Octane get some JSB diablo exact match 18.3 grn. pellets, the .22 cal Octanes just love those pellets.

Thanks for the recommendation.  I think I'm going to keep my new Hatsan 95.  I might consider the Octane for my next air rifle.

[AHMSA]

For those interested, you can read my quick review on this link: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=75994.

[mafatone]

When you say magnum, I have to think of the 135. I own one and the power, accuracy, walnut stock and price is hard to beat. I feel it's one of the better bargains out there. Pure destruction for $220. It's not a rifle that you want to pass 200 pellets through to target shoot even though you could probably could. Hard cocking, heavy weight, big recoil is the price you pay for the 135. I get a true 990-1005 FPS in .22 with mine. I can't speak for the 95 but I thought I would give you my input on the 135.