Help me understand why......

[Van]

    Much of the trouble with Chinese spring guns lies in the assembly at the factory.  I bought a $65 .22 cal. Quest on clearance just to tear down and learn to work on.  They are great for this purpose.  It was over lubed inside and the piston seal was torn up from the sharp edges  in the compression tube.  It never would have shot well assembled like this. I got a Tarantula spring $17, Tesla Gamo seal $9.95, and lubes from AIR Rifle Headquarters.  After learning all I could from this forum and others, I cleaned, took off the sharp edges in the tube, lubed and assembled the gun.   It now shoots 720 fps with 14.3g pellets, no spring twang, and is as accurate, with open sights, at 20-25yds as my RWS 34.  I liked it so much I put it in a better beech stock from a Gamo 440 $30.  The plastic sights are junk though.  I replaced them with iron sights from a black powder gun that I was not using.  For about $60-$70 spent extra I have a great shooting gun.  It was the learning experience on a cheap gun that gave me the confidence to work on better guns.  By all means, clean the barrel well.  Could not believe the thick grime that came out of a new Quest.

[f4milytime]

Just my observations and my opinion.  I have no doubt a good one doesn't sneak by once in a while or they can't be made to shoot better.  I am just saying at this point in time they are not in any way trying to compete with AA or Weirauch from a quality standpoint.  It's not in there business model.

My point exactly...

[VoodooSteve]

I don't know if you fellas seen my other post yet, but I picked up a crosman model 1 for $8 at a flea mkt, , and it looks like I've wasted about $242 + time and a ton of pellets on the gas gun, to say the mod1 blows the nitro venom away in the accuracy dept is a huge understatement, heck the mod 1 is open sights too,  so hopefully the new piston seal fixes the venom, but in any event it will be sold as I have reach my BS quotient with this gun and the proceeds will be put towards a better, more accurate performer.... You know pellet guns shouldn't need this much work and ability to shoot....

[Bullit]

Steve.  I think you're under the illusion that you are gonna get .22lr sub 1" performance, at 50yds, from a "breakbarrel production" airgun that costs under $150.00, at it's introduction price.   These cheaper guns will shoot better, with a good shooter, of course...but they "are what they are".  You could buy older rifles, much better, within your budget.  If you know what you are looking for.  As a newbie to air rifles;   please don't "throw the baby out with the bathwater".
Again...  If you're unhappy with airgunning... There are some very good subsonic .22 rounds that are air rifle quiet and very hunter/target accurate...WITH higher FPE!  The money you're complaining about, woulda bought a bunch of them.    I wish you well.

[VoodooSteve]

What gave you the idea that I was unhappy with air gunning? I've always had an airgun of some sort since I was a kid, i usually have a great time shooting these guns but truly,it's the gun I'm unhappy with,  I could have sent it back but after reading about the trigger work, and a couple other fairly simple to do things, well, I did them, and they didn't help the accuracy at all,and I wasn't going to send it back after I'd been into it because that would be dishonest, and I figure by the inconsistency it's the piston seal which I am purchasing from Crosman, sure I could have whined till they sent me one, but once I took that trigger out, the gun was my baby, I just feel as though the quality of these hunting advertised guns shouldn't be so shoddy, and no I don't expect 1" @ 50, 3@25 would be sufficient for a hunting quality gun, and if that was the standard 1"@50 might be attainable through custom work, accessories and practice..... Luck of the draw accuracy should never be acceptable with any weapon. , am I wrong for thinking this?

[Bullit]

  In short.  Your post #42,,,about wasted money and time/pellets Steve.  Sounded pretty sad.
Bottom line is, that you get what you pay $150 for.  A good $250 Gamo CFR Fixed barrel, will give a much happier experience at 50 yards.  It's a 1" area player, as is.  Custom GRT drop in trigger only costs $30, if you like.
Lightweight breakbarrels (by design) require practice and attn. to hold detail.  And they all have they're own likes.    Wish we could give everyone a "goto" manual for them
There truly are some good older breakbarrels that aren't the "hot girl" anymore.  You can get good "bang for the buck" deals on them.  Just gotta know which ones they are.   Truly...most don't know them, so when they come up,  buy it.
Airguns are Airguns as far as power goes...ya know.  I hope you stick with it.

[VoodooSteve]

Bullit, I currently own an old b3, a Daisy 126, a Hatsan  Striker Edge,  a Crosman Fury 2, the Model 1, and the nitro venom dusk, I can't help how I feel about the venom, I have the most money, time, and effort invested in it and it is the worst one accuracy wise,  and that is pretty sad, I've had other springers but never a gas piston gun, and I was expecting it to be a better gun as I gave the most for it,was I wrong in expecting a higher priced gun  shoot and be of better quality than the companies cheaper offerings?  I believe most people would expect to pay more for better things, that's what did, but evidently I got a $)((# for my efforts....... I will stick with it as this is not the first $)((# I've stepped in and I'll just wipe it off and go on...just like I did with the other turds...

[f4milytime]

Totally off subject, but sometimes the barrels are bad. Just trying to help....

[TooJung2Die]

Totally off subject, but sometimes the barrels are bad. Just trying to help....

You're right on topic. Bad barrels are way too common. My first Chinese made springer (the Fury) had a very bad barrel. Everything I did to it helped but it never grouped consistently well until I replaced the barrel. The first Air Hawk I bought had a very bad barrel. By then I had enough experience to catch it right away and exchanged it for another Air Hawk with a pretty good barrel. The B3 has a marginally bad barrel but it shoots acceptably well with the right pellet. My math says that 3 out of 5 Chinese made springers I bought had bad barrels. The good ones were the 2006 Remington Summit and the second Air Hawk. Both of those had other serious manufacturing defects I corrected.

Any time I began to think problems with accuracy were due to the shooter (me), I got out the Diana 45 or 34 and after a couple dozen shots I knew to look for something else wrong.
Jon

[Pappy]

Ditto on what a lot of posts are saying, and I know you said something about short on cash ..... but I learned a while ago, you get what you pay for, and $200 buys you disappointment and inaccuracy ...... as a matter of fact $200 doesn't even get you a high quality scope today!

Save up ..... put your money into quality once ..... if you can save up some more after that, buy more quality.  Never could understand why some people spend a thousand on 10 pieces of junk?  $1000 will get you a really nice rifle.

My Humble Opinion

[VoodooSteve]

I agree on the bad barrel comments that's why I tried to purchase a replacement, see my post on the previous page as to why they could not sell me one... Fellas I never said anything about being short on cash, heck I've got thousands of dollars in trad bows in my shop, I build them too, and I'm sitting here looking at 15 custom brushless RC cars and trucks, and outside the window behind them is my flame throwing hot rod, money is not the problem... Quality is and what has become acceptable seems to be too, I know $150 bucks isn't a lot in the grand sceme of airguns, but it is to a whole lot of people, I have never met even one person in my 54 years that has paid more than $100 bucks on an air rifle...heck my friends think I'm nuts for paying what I did, and after seeing what I'm going through to make it accurate...they also think I'm foolish, do you fellas think any one of them are going to run right out and get one? Now how many others are watching their friends going through the same thing?  Now i'd just bet though that if these low cost guns shot better a heck of a lot more people would be buying them... And keeping them too!

[VoodooSteve]

You know, I didn't come on here to argue or be a jerk, I came in hope of understanding what I view as a problem, seriously are you fellas trying to tell me that I, and others should have to spend $400.....$500....$600 or even more to be able to consistantly hit a 3" target at 25 yards with an advertised hunting air rifle? Come on now seriously?.........I know what quality is and that money buys a great deal of it if you spend enough, but this gun is far from the cheapest one out there, and it should have acceptable accuracy as a starting point.....I should not have to spend a bunch of cash to get to that starting point, I should be able to spend that cash on upgrades to make one better from that starting point......Now I will be going out and spending 4 or 5 hundred bucks on a better, I hope, air gun because I like nice, cool stuff, but I purchased these guns to keep in the shop, like a barn gun if you will, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on one, I just needed a decent tool I could take hunting that had enough power and accuracy to dispatch critters humanely.......I will change out the piston seal, and try to find a replacement barrel and change that too, but that will be as far as I take this particular gun.......the next one though will hopefully be a different story, and I'll probably put a bunch of money in it  because I choose to and not because I have to........We should not have to do their job......

[Bill in SC]

You know, I didn't come on here to argue or be a jerk, I came in hope of understanding what I view as a problem, seriously are you fellas trying to tell me that I, and others should have to spend $400.....$500....$600 or even more to be able to consistantly hit a 3" target at 25 yards with an advertised hunting air rifle? Come on now seriously?.........I know what quality is and that money buys a great deal of it if you spend enough, but this gun is far from the cheapest one out there, and it should have acceptable accuracy as a starting point.....I should not have to spend a bunch of cash to get to that starting point, I should be able to spend that cash on upgrades to make one better from that starting point......Now I will be going out and spending 4 or 5 hundred bucks on a better, I hope, air gun because I like nice, cool stuff, but I purchased these guns to keep in the shop, like a barn gun if you will, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on one, I just needed a decent tool I could take hunting that had enough power and accuracy to dispatch critters humanely.......I will change out the piston seal, and try to find a replacement barrel and change that too, but that will be as far as I take this particular gun.......the next one though will hopefully be a different story, and I'll probably put a bunch of money in it  because I choose to and not because I have to........We should not have to do their job......

My Stoeger X20 in .22 at $159 will consistently hit a THREE inch target at 25 yards ALL DAY LONG. That size target at that range is not a huge requirement. That said, I reiterate, the German Diana 34 at a tad over your target price of $200 will hit smaller targets consistently at that range.  The quality jump from the $200 and less Chinese guns and the Diana 34 is immediately noticed. You DON'T have to spend $400+  to get a TACK DRIVING, HIGH QUALITY airgun.

Bill in SC

[twigboy]

The Ruger Airhawk line of rifles, (Chinese)....has a very good history, and now they are at cheaper prices,.... as it's not the "New Hot Chick" anymore.    They All go through this.  If I were interested in a D34, (or any breakbarrel),  I'd snag one of these.   Justa sayin'

Like this one? amazon.com/Ruger-Hawk-Combo-Rifle-Large/dp/B002N45PQU
or
pyramydair.com/s/m/Diana_RWS_34_Breakbarrel_Rifle_T06_Trigger/402
airgundepot.com/rws34.html

There truly are some good older breakbarrels that aren't the "hot girl" anymore.  You can get good "bang for the buck" deals on them.  Just gotta know which ones they are.   Truly...most don't know them, so when they come up,  buy it.
Airguns are Airguns as far as power goes...ya know.  I hope you stick with it.

Any others in the "older hot chick" category? 

It seems it is also like the Ford/Chevy/Dodge/Ram preferences.  All are good, but for some purchasers the one little thing that makes them better for them makes them better for all time -- "I'll never by a !$#@$ again!".  I've had Ford and Dodge and the family had Chevy, all in 1/2 ton.  Each was OK at the time but obviously needs at the time (features; price) made the change.  Couldn't say the same thing for larger pickups because we didn't get those.  Gamo, RWS, Crosman, etc. are all around because they fit needs somewhere.

[Deckard1973]

Totally off subject, but sometimes the barrels are bad. Just trying to help....

+1!
My first airgun was/is a Gamo, Bone Collector.  Terrible barrel droop.  Got a mount to compensate and it is fine now. 
Shooting styles between the a springer and PCP are very different.

[TooJung2Die]

You know, I didn't come on here to argue or be a jerk, I came in hope of understanding what I view as a problem, seriously are you fellas trying to tell me that I, and others should have to spend $400.....$500....$600 or even more to be able to consistantly hit a 3" target at 25 yards with an advertised hunting air rifle? Come on now seriously?.........I know what quality is and that money buys a great deal of it if you spend enough, but this gun is far from the cheapest one out there, and it should have acceptable accuracy as a starting point.....I should not have to spend a bunch of cash to get to that starting point, I should be able to spend that cash on upgrades to make one better from that starting point......Now I will be going out and spending 4 or 5 hundred bucks on a better, I hope, air gun because I like nice, cool stuff, but I purchased these guns to keep in the shop, like a barn gun if you will, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on one, I just needed a decent tool I could take hunting that had enough power and accuracy to dispatch critters humanely.......I will change out the piston seal, and try to find a replacement barrel and change that too, but that will be as far as I take this particular gun.......the next one though will hopefully be a different story, and I'll probably put a bunch of money in it  because I choose to and not because I have to........We should not have to do their job......

You're exactly right. But these poor quality air rifles keep selling so nobody is going to change anything. I see the consumer has three choices. One, keep returning the defective products until a good one is found, or two, accept the poor quality and learn to tune it up yourself. The third choice is the one you seem to have elected. Buy a quality air rifle probably made in England or Germany and enjoy owning a high quality product that does it's intended job.

Jon

[palonej]

You know, I didn't come on here to argue or be a jerk, I came in hope of understanding what I view as a problem, seriously are you fellas trying to tell me that I, and others should have to spend $400.....$500....$600 or even more to be able to consistantly hit a 3" target at 25 yards with an advertised hunting air rifle? Come on now seriously?.........I know what quality is and that money buys a great deal of it if you spend enough, but this gun is far from the cheapest one out there, and it should have acceptable accuracy as a starting point.....I should not have to spend a bunch of cash to get to that starting point, I should be able to spend that cash on upgrades to make one better from that starting point......Now I will be going out and spending 4 or 5 hundred bucks on a better, I hope, air gun because I like nice, cool stuff, but I purchased these guns to keep in the shop, like a barn gun if you will, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on one, I just needed a decent tool I could take hunting that had enough power and accuracy to dispatch critters humanely.......I will change out the piston seal, and try to find a replacement barrel and change that too, but that will be as far as I take this particular gun.......the next one though will hopefully be a different story, and I'll probably put a bunch of money in it  because I choose to and not because I have to........We should not have to do their job......

Very well said Steve.
And I thought it was obvious you weren't a jerk or looking to argue.
You made a good point that should be discussed.
How many people went thru the same thing and didn't bother finding this place for some help???
Many $150 air guns sitting in garages and perspective new air gunners totally turned off to the hobby??

[f4milytime]

You know, I didn't come on here to argue or be a jerk, I came in hope of understanding what I view as a problem, seriously are you fellas trying to tell me that I, and others should have to spend $400.....$500....$600 or even more to be able to consistantly hit a 3" target at 25 yards with an advertised hunting air rifle? Come on now seriously?.........I know what quality is and that money buys a great deal of it if you spend enough, but this gun is far from the cheapest one out there, and it should have acceptable accuracy as a starting point.....I should not have to spend a bunch of cash to get to that starting point, I should be able to spend that cash on upgrades to make one better from that starting point......Now I will be going out and spending 4 or 5 hundred bucks on a better, I hope, air gun because I like nice, cool stuff, but I purchased these guns to keep in the shop, like a barn gun if you will, I didn't want to spend a ton of money on one, I just needed a decent tool I could take hunting that had enough power and accuracy to dispatch critters humanely.......I will change out the piston seal, and try to find a replacement barrel and change that too, but that will be as far as I take this particular gun.......the next one though will hopefully be a different story, and I'll probably put a bunch of money in it  because I choose to and not because I have to........We should not have to do their job......

You're exactly right. But these poor quality air rifles keep selling so nobody is going to change anything. I see the consumer has three choices. One, keep returning the defective products until a good one is found, or two, accept the poor quality and learn to tune it up yourself. The third choice is the one you seem to have elected. Buy a quality air rifle probably made in England or Germany and enjoy owning a high quality product that does it's intended job.

Jon

I like the third choice !! I just wish I could afford the one I want... LOL... 

[Hammarhead]

I think the cheaper, entry level airguns have a solid place in our sport and always will. Not everyone has the ability or desire to spend a large sum of money on an airgun, especially as a beginner. Many beginner issues with airgun shooting will be present no matter what the price of the gun is and it makes more sense to work them out on a less expensive model. From my own personal experience, I started with Gamo and improved the quality of my purchases from there. To be honest, had I started with my HW30S from the beginning, I may have only owned one airgun. It just does so many things right for me that I wind up shooting it more than anything else. Just think of all the fun I would have missed!

[HYspd]

this is meant with respect....I'm afraid to tell somebody the unbuttered truth to their face and that's all this is.


all in all, I think you're out of line and here's why...

the big thing here is CHINESE...it's carved up and pinned together tossed in a box and to be shipped out and put on a shelf....YOU know that already, I don't have to ask..

if the box says made in China, what more do you need to know?...Caveat Emptor, it's your butt..

get away from Chinese and their price competitive cousins and you enter another order of... well....order




do you buy brushless motors and ESCs and Lipo Batteries from China or do you pony up more $ for a lower trash factor?..transmitters receivers servos bearings?...

don't even bother to answer I only ask to drive the point home....you pony up for the good stuff..

this hobby is exactly the same thing...you can make something sweet out of asian base stock but you hav eto be GOOD to do it every time....