Help me understand why......

[colorider]

Colorider, If I may ask, which PCP did you settle on?

I got the hatsan at44 in 22cal.   Reasoning was the price point, a repeater, trigger reviews, and great out of the box performance reviews.    Have not shot it a lot, but so far I am impressed.  The Quattro trigger is outstanding IMHO.  It is loud, so I have a ldc on its way.  Stock is very hollow sounding, but some spray expanding foam solved that.  So far I am very thrilled to going the pcp route.  I can get my 3300 psi scuba tank filled down the road for 5 bucks. 

[Pellgunfun]

Chinese airguns are junk period, that's why they need so much work (IMO), and at $200 that's pretty much what you will get a chinese gun. As of right now, I'm having trouble with one of my china airguns too, problem after problem keeps popping up, and this is with new parts, So I know the feeling.

Are you referring to Chinese made Springers only, or all Chinese made air rifles?
I have to say I don't agree with your first sentence, but I respect your point of view.  I've got a BAM B50 that I've put over 2000 pellets through so far, and no issues.  Not a single problem encountered.  My rifle is fully stock without any mods or tunings.  It's crazy accurate, and has been since the very first shot.  The only complaint I have about this pellet rifle, is that it is louder than I would like it to be.

If you referring to Springers in particular, you may have a point.  Maybe it's the high recoil that exposes the poor quality control.

[TooJung2Die]

Chinese airguns are junk period, that's why they need so much work (IMO), and at $200 that's pretty much what you will get a chinese gun. As of right now, I'm having trouble with one of my china airguns too, problem after problem keeps popping up, and this is with new parts, So I know the feeling.

I agree. I bought five China springers, some used, some new. Four needed a significant amount of work to get them to shoot well and the fifth was so bad I sent it back. I can't say I was disappointed because I bought them all with the intent that they would be projects. It was frustration, fun and the intended learning experience. I shot all four yesterday and I'm happy with the performance. All the problems were due to poor quality control in manufacturing and all the guns were under $200 new. You can guess which ones I'm talking about by looking at the list of air rifles below.

Of all these guns the ones that didn't have manufacturing defects were 25+ years old, the pumpers or German made. I have a Vortek kit to go into the Diana 34 but I have a real bad "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" complex so the kit is gathering dust. If you want a good spring piston air rifle that'll make you happy without a lot of futzing and tinkering buy European and plan on spending more than $200. Maybe much more. You'll still need to expect a break-in period for it to settle down.

Jon

[Pellgunfun]

Chinese airguns are junk period, that's why they need so much work (IMO), and at $200 that's pretty much what you will get a chinese gun. As of right now, I'm having trouble with one of my china airguns too, problem after problem keeps popping up, and this is with new parts, So I know the feeling.

I agree. I bought five China springers, some used, some new. Four needed a significant amount of work to get them to shoot well and the fifth was so bad I sent it back. I can't say I was disappointed because I bought them all with the intent that they would be projects. It was frustration, fun and the intended learning experience. I shot all four yesterday and I'm happy with the performance. All the problems were due to poor quality control in manufacturing and all the guns were under $200 new. You can guess which ones I'm talking about by looking at the list of air rifles below.

Of all these guns the ones that didn't have manufacturing defects were the pumpers or German made. I have a Vortek kit to go into the Diana 34 but I have a real bad "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" complex so the kit is gathering dust. If you want a good spring piston air rifle that'll make you happy without a lot of futzing and tinkering buy European and plan on spending more than $200. Maybe much more. You'll still need to expect a break-in period for it to settle down.
Jon

Jon

It has to be the recoil that is shaking these guns apart, and exposing lapses in quality control.  I got rid of the Springer and went the PCP route.  I'm much happier for it.

[Kallysan]

A lot of times, a person will drop $300 bucks or more on a .22lr, but when it comes to air guns it has to be cheap, otherwise you can buy a real gun. Or so the logic goes.

And there are a lot of us who will not spend $300 for a .22 lr  much better to get an old one for around $50 at a garage sale.  I find the older ones always shoot better.  Plus I would rather spend the $300 on an air rifle, just so much more fun than a .22lr  Now if I could just find a Marauder at the garage sale...lol

[SagaciousKJB]

A lot of times, a person will drop $300 bucks or more on a .22lr, but when it comes to air guns it has to be cheap, otherwise you can buy a real gun. Or so the logic goes.

And there are a lot of us who will not spend $300 for a .22 lr  much better to get an old one for around $50 at a garage sale.  I find the older ones always shoot better.  Plus I would rather spend the $300 on an air rifle, just so much more fun than a .22lr  Now if I could just find a Marauder at the garage sale...lol

Hmm...  Too bad we can't find R11s and HW95s at yard sales for $50

I think it's all a sign of the times honestly.  I mean, think about the Marlin 60 .22 that people by out of yard sales.  They do so because they've been around since the 60s and have sold over 11 million models, and were so well made that most of them are still great shooters today.  In fact ever since Remington's acquisition of Marlin, they have changed manufacturing processes and people are now actually going to buy the old Marlins because they are better than the new ones.  A lot of the times you wind up with a "project gun" but with a little steel wool and some solvent you end up with a gun that shoots just as well as the one out of the store, but also being much better made.  It's all about the $150 pricepoint for the gun too.  It cost the same $150 in 1972 as it does today, yet they can't keep up the same quality of manufacturing without raising the price--so the option is to either cut costs or lose money.

Some companies will take the hit and lose the money and still produce a good product, but you can't expect them to do that forever.  I don't know the history of the air gun market, but my guess is that the consumer has expected to pay under $200 for a long time, and so the manufacturers know they're not likely to go above that pricepoint.

[colorider]

My experience with a Benjamin trail np.  Purchased last year.  I think it was $225 from PA. 
Trigger was almost unusable.  Gritty, no feel whatsoever.  Barrel crown looked like it was cut by a 5yr old using a rock he found in the street.  Piston seal looked like a badger had chewed on it.  The burrs and other rough edges on the gun were horrible.  Barrel pivots were sloppy at best.   Inside the barrel had more sludge in it then a port o potty.   Breach seal oring was buggered up.   
Best part of the rifle was the sling that came w it. 

[Gresh24]

I have had very good luck with guns under $200.  I shoot with a group of guys (6 of us) that have 15 or so springers and gas break barrels of many different brands that all have performed well.  I think one or two may be over $200.  No problems with target shooting up to 40 yards or so.  Granted, some need some maintenance and adjusting but not total overhauls to be effective and fun. 

[Mr Sasquatch]

My experience with a Benjamin trail np.  Purchased last year.  I think it was $225 from PA. 
Trigger was almost unusable.  Gritty, no feel whatsoever.  Barrel crown looked like it was cut by a 5yr old using a rock he found in the street.  Piston seal looked like a badger had chewed on it.  The burrs and other rough edges on the gun were horrible.  Barrel pivots were sloppy at best.   Inside the barrel had more sludge in it then a port o potty.   Breach seal oring was buggered up.   
Best part of the rifle was the sling that came w it.

Did you send this POJ back ? If more people started demanding refunds instead of putting up with such dismal quality, and if it showed up  red on some CFOs bottom line, then just maybe some of these manufacturers would get a message.

Also, the value of US $ is not what it used to be, and maybe these days $150 can only buy you a DIY kit of  unfinished air gun parts to be assembled by the buyer.

[Privateer]

I haven't run into any Gun that would not group under 1.5" at even 35 yards out of the box, untuned.
Several Chinese guns have even taken the necks off of bottles at 75 yards after learning how to shoot them.
 

[NickB79]

Learning a springer isn't as hard as you state, I shoot 500 to 1000 shots a week (sometimes more). Who is practicing? I just sit, drink coffee, shoot targets, smoke cigarettes, and the most fun part is smoking pests in my back yard.

I'm envious; I'm lucky to get 500 shots per MONTH, and that's usually stuffed into one good weekend when my mother in law takes my daughter for a few days.  And that's assuming nothing around the house has broken and in need of repair, or the deck doesn't need staining, or the garden doesn't need watering, or firewood doesn't need stacking, or I get called in to work OT, etc, etc.....

It's hard to get a lot of quality shooting in when you have an energetic 4-yr old running around the backyard.  But on the plus side, she's showing interest in shooting "Daddy's guns", so there's light at the end of the tunnel :-)

[Booger]

Learning a springer isn't as hard as you state, I shoot 500 to 1000 shots a week (sometimes more). Who is practicing? I just sit, drink coffee, shoot targets, smoke cigarettes, and the most fun part is smoking pests in my back yard.

I'm envious; I'm lucky to get 500 shots per MONTH, and that's usually stuffed into one good weekend when my mother in law takes my daughter for a few days.  And that's assuming nothing around the house has broken and in need of repair, or the deck doesn't need staining, or the garden doesn't need watering, or firewood doesn't need stacking, or I get called in to work OT, etc, etc.....

It's hard to get a lot of quality shooting in when you have an energetic 4-yr old running around the backyard.  But on the plus side, she's showing interest in shooting "Daddy's guns", so there's light at the end of the tunnel :-)

My daughter shoots better than her ex-boyfriend. My youngest son is a natural. I guess I am lucky to be retired (disabled), have young children, do not have a honey do list, and my only job is to sit drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, and shoot targets from 20 to 90 yards. Life is good!

[Privateer]

do not have a honey do list

I hate you.
 

[Bill in SC]

I can only recommend 2 guns for a beginner & both are out of your price range. The first is a D-34 with the T06 trigger, the other I have never owned but I own it's twin brother (R11) and that is the R9/HW95 with the Rekord Trigger. Both guns will last you a long time with good accuracy, and the triggers are nice.

I agree! Diana 34 at just a smidgeon over $200. Quality, accuracy, TO6 match trigger.  You will NEVER LOOK BACK!

Bill in SC

[f4milytime]

Chinese airguns are junk period, that's why they need so much work (IMO), and at $200 that's pretty much what you will get a chinese gun. As of right now, I'm having trouble with one of my china airguns too, problem after problem keeps popping up, and this is with new parts, So I know the feeling.

Are you referring to Chinese made Springers only, or all Chinese made air rifles?
I have to say I don't agree with your first sentence, but I respect your point of view.  I've got a BAM B50 that I've put over 2000 pellets through so far, and no issues.  Not a single problem encountered.  My rifle is fully stock without any mods or tunings.  It's crazy accurate, and has been since the very first shot.  The only complaint I have about this pellet rifle, is that it is louder than I would like it to be.

If you referring to Springers in particular, you may have a point.  Maybe it's the high recoil that exposes the poor quality control.

I guess it comes down to luck of the draw with china guns. I know there are good ones out there, but there Q.C. is so bad it's like they come unfinished.

[Bullit]

You can get a lot of little single shot 22lr rifle, in that budget.  Much better tool for "all" critters that come around the farm.  Use the newer "subsonic" .22 bullets, and you don't have the noise, or long "downrange danger" issues, to deal with.  Much more power than air rifles, without a lot of money.

[Brazos]

It's a shame you spent $200 three times and for only $75 more you could have had an RWS34 with an outstanding T06 trigger. 

At the end of the day the Chinese guns aren't trying to compete with quality air rifles and everyone needs to understand this.  For many years Beeman imported very nice break barrel spring rifles.  Most Americans saw break barrel spring rifles as the cream of the crop but way more money than they would pay for a "BB gun"/"kid's gun".  Then came along companies that figured out they could have break barrel air rifles made in China real cheap and make a bunch of money.  So they did.  And it worked.  Americans went to Walmart and saw break barrel spring rifles for 1/2 the price of what the expected.  So they bought them.  I don't know how many times I have heard people say "this is one of those good ones" in reference to the break barrel action.  Up until that point most guns Americans bought were cheap Crossman/Daisy pumps, you know "kid's guns".  So to pump up the sales more they make up velocities and say this new rifle will shoot 1400fps.  Now Americans think they are getting a .22lr for $150 they can shoot in their back yard.  The sad deal is most people buy them, shoot them a few times, realize they don't shoot good and give up on them.  Their thought is it is a "kid's gun", and all pellet guns are junk.

Just my observations and my opinion.  I have no doubt a good one doesn't sneak by once in a while or they can't be made to shoot better.  I am just saying at this point in time they are not in any way trying to compete with AA or Weirauch from a quality standpoint.  It's not in there business model.

[Bullit]

The Ruger Airhawk line of rifles, (Chinese)....has a very good history, and now they are at cheaper prices,.... as it's not the "New Hot Chick" anymore.    They All go through this.  If I were interested in a D34, (or any breakbarrel),  I'd snag one of these.   Justa sayin'

[VoodooSteve]

You can get a lot of little single shot 22lr rifle, in that budget.  Much better tool for "all" critters that come around the farm.  Use the newer "subsonic" .22 bullets, and you don't have the noise, or long "downrange danger" issues, to deal with.  Much more power than air rifles, without a lot of money.

I have a cheapy Rossi 22/410...and it is very accurate, problem is the availability of rounds, scarce as hens teeth around here......just found some at a big gun shop here , but felt like a pothead as they were selling them in baggies $10/100.....

Fellas thanks for the suggestions and I'm checking them all out real good too, been looking at the Umarex octane as well, and I really don't mind doing a bit of work on one, but I hate having to work on something new just to get it to do it's intended purpose, now customizing or tricking out is a different story.....and based upon what I was told in our phone conversation......one companies products got put on my do not buy list......and it seems to me that they would actually save money by taking a little extra care with the quality, a little extra care would mean less returns and more happy customers...

[Gresh24]

Just my observations and my opinion.  I have no doubt a good one doesn't sneak by once in a while or they can't be made to shoot better.  I am just saying at this point in time they are not in any way trying to compete with AA or Weirauch from a quality standpoint.  It's not in there business model.

This.  I agree it's just a different market, and clearly there is a much bigger market out there for the $200 and under pellet rifle. 

I don't agree that all Chinese guns are junk.  I suppose it depends on expectations and use.  The fact is there are many Chinese guns out there that perform very well for people and they have many great reviews.  It does seem their QC has issues and some come out as complete lemons.  But dealing with a reputable company with good customer service (like Crosman) can resolve that. 

It's really no different than product offerings in any market.