Help me understand why......

[VoodooSteve]

 the quality of airguns is so poor.

Now I'm not talking about high dollar guns, pcp's or customs, but guns in the under $200 range.....I've bought 3 in the last 2 months, all were over $100 but less than $200, all came with "scopes" which were at best &^^&, all were poor shooters, mostly due to the poor triggers, 2 were spring guns, and one a gas piston, the gas gun is the worst and in dealing with the dealer, and company, I'm not a happy camper, heck it was cheaper to buy the new piston seals than to go through the hassle of shipping it back as I live in a rural area, and in this rural area I needed hunting caliber air rifles, and thought that's what I was getting, but i wouldn't have shot a living critter with them past 5 yards when they were new........was and am I still expecting too much from guns marketed as hunting air guns?......and upon perusing this site, I find myself extremely leery of purchasing ANY airgun as they all seem to suffer from quality problems, and all seem to need work to do what they are intended to do.......Is this the accepted norm for new air guns?......

[SpiralGroove]

Hey VoodooSteve,
1) What 3 guns did you buy?
2) How accurate do the guns need to be?
3) You may want to look at the following airguns:
     - Hatsan 95 is a nice gun for $159, but you will need to spend about $80/$90 to get a decent scope. 
       The scope that comes with it is junk.
     - Go to the GTA Mall and to Flying Dragon Airguns.  Look at the Xisico XS-26 or XS-28.  Mike Melick can tune them
       for an additional $100.  As above, you will need to add an $80/$90 or better scope.
4) All airguns benefit from a good tune.

You just can't get it all for $200.

My two cents...........

[codytwoeyes]

What he said

[VoodooSteve]

SpiralGroove, I'd rather not say what guns I bought as this thread could be interpreted as me bashing the manufacturers, and I feel that only one of them has and is still dropping the ball, for instance today, I spoke to them on the phone as I was wanting to replace the piston seal and barrel, at my cost too, but I was told they have not had ANY replacement .22 barrels in months due to poor quality from the maker......but they are still selling the guns with those barrels......think about that for a second.......

And I'd like them to be at most 3" at 25 yards........

And one I will mention, it's a Hatsan Striker Edge in .25, the scope was awful, but I upgraded it, the trigger was awful too, and I did a trigger job on it, it now shoots pretty good, but it was filthy dirty and should have been cleaned before it was packed for sale.....

And the clincher in all this is that I bought an old chinese b3 used at a rummage for $5 bucks 9 years ago, it has been put through *(&^, left outside, dropped, beat around and has never been cleaned as long as I've had it and it still shoots better than any of these 3 new guns.......and it has no scope......I just won't shoot anything past 20 yards with it due to it's power limitation........

And I do understand I can't have it all for $200...... but $200 is a lot to me for a pellet gun, heck I've bought better real guns for less, I would like to think that a $100-200 pellet gun should be capable of a 3" 5 shot group at 25 yards if it's marketed as a hunting weapon......anything less would be unethical for me to take hunting. and if your wondering, I'm 54 and have been shooting firearms all my life, even built a few ultimate .22's,  and can hit a ping pong ball with my longbow more times out of 5 than 2 of the 3 airguns I have at 20 yards......I've shot archery my whole life too and have been building Elk risered take down longbows for the last 9 years.

[Roadworthy]

Quality does not seem a priority with the Chinese airguns.  They are being aimed at a price point.  Not everybody is willing to pay $600 or even $300 for an airgun.  The newer airguns have more power than your trusty B3.  Speed is a big selling point but it can have a negative effect on accuracy.  More powerful airguns have stronger springs (or gas struts) which accelerate the piston quickly to produce the air.  Pistons have mass and consequently there is significant recoil to consider.

Held correctly with the right pellet most modern spring airguns can achieve one inch groups or less at twenty to twenty five yards.  The catch being you may have to replace the trigger and the piston seal to get a consistent shooter.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey VoodooSteve,
This forum is the place where you can politely tell other members the good/bad about a particular make & model.
Most likely we've heard it before, but new members need to know.

All the guns I've mentioned should shoot at less than 1.5" at 25 yards, otherwise send it back (costing $20).
I would shop exclusively from Pyramyd Air in Ohio, as they have a great return policy and provide excellent service.

All Hatsan springer's come with the Optima scope; it's a real POS.  You're correct, the Striker's trigger is not a good one.  The Striker's don't have a Turkish Walnut stock, Quattro trigger or SAS recoil system as the 95's do.  I wouldn't recommend one unless you need a 6.5 lb gun vs. the 7.8 lb Hatsan 95.

It sounds like you're pretty handy.  I'm still recommending the 3 guns above..........you can likely tune them yourself.
Go the GTA mall - James MCcarri at AGH to buy most piston seals and all the lube you need for a good tune.

Good luck..........

[stevemag]

i wouldn't say its air guns alone, many fire arm manufacturers aren't what the used to be either.

but let me add this, as a long time fire arms shooter, the first time i shot a springer i was very disappointed. if this is you're first springer there will be a learning curve.  a good friend of mine compares  it to shooting a bow very much so you'll get the hang of it,
springers are tuff.

[grobe1458]

there are companies who we all know are pushing FPS and hyped videos, they are putting out low cost guns with exaggerated ratings which do not relate to real world use, they are also impacted with poor quality control and precision parts. that low price comes at a cost which many find out after buying one. I just won't buy some brands period. but also, some of these inexpensive guns can be made better if you have the skills to rework them or have them tuned and that raises the cost and you may not still be satisfied.
I have a beeman rs3 and it while somewhat accurate it is not consistant, it drew blood when I first picked it up due to the razoe sharp edges, drew more blood when I removed it from it's syn stock. it has yet to make anything bleed besides me
my personal opinion, some of these guns and the hype that comes with them appeal to man's base instinct, more power, faster. which comes with a down side.
I'd rather save for a better gun than buy some of what's out there. or at the least get what is a proven model and save for the next step up.
as for they all need work, many don't, it may be a preference of the owner to craft it to their needs.  and just to point out, you can get a bad expensive airgun so it's a matter of choosing based on a proven track record of a particular model gun and caliber. and I don't want a gun so hold sensitive that I need to take a yoga class to be able to shoot it.*L*

[Booger]

I can only recommend 2 guns for a beginner & both are out of your price range. The first is a D-34 with the T06 trigger, the other I have never owned but I own it's twin brother (R11) and that is the R9/HW95 with the Rekord Trigger. Both guns will last you a long time with good accuracy, and the triggers are nice.

[baranjhn]

Unfortunately you get what you pay for. You bought three guns, assuming a median price of $150 each, which means you've got about $450 into them. At $450 there are a myriad of new guns out there that would be of good to excellent quality. Furthermore, the scope packages reduce over all quality of one or both items to meet the price point.

A lot of times, a person will drop $300 bucks or more on a .22lr, but when it comes to air guns it has to be cheap, otherwise you can buy a real gun. Or so the logic goes.

[HYspd]

yup..

80% or more will need surgery to get minute of beer can at 25 yards accuracy and to last more than a few thousand shots...

AFTER buying special gunk (goo gone) and cleaning the coagulated whale oil preservative out of the barrel:


my Benji Titan had to have the barrel pivot adjusted significantly (like 2 turns in) to get better than 10" accuracy at 10 yards...then I basically got 1 hole at 10 yards after that...

by then, I had already put a GTR3 trigger in it so I could predict when it was going to fire...that trigger is SWEET

a local tuner took mercy on me and performed on laying on of the hands...reduced the shot to shot speed difference by 75% which increased the average speed

then the scope keeled over....and I don't have bread for another....



since that time I have had my hands on a newer designed and produced Crossman Fury 2 that out of the box had the trigger that was rumored to be an improved design,  all of the "awfullness" was removed...while not a particularly good trigger, it was far more useable than lamentable...

the 80% I said a minute ago?..that's a lie....the barrel washers need changed and the waste of time oil needs to replaced with something hugely more appropriate to the application of an airgun, the seal will need to be replaced and main tube deburred before the seal goes in so it won't get nicked...and that's before you even fire it, let alone look at the scope and trigger...

[colorider]

I have been through 3 springer/piston guns in 12 months.  Lets just say I am a slow learner.  Best advice I can give is do your research on this site and listen to what the springer vets have to say.  I have decided I am not a springer/piston kind of guy.  Simply don't have the time to dedicate to learning the shooting style and to "tune" one up.  I have not abandon the pellet gun hobby.  I just moved to the PCP end of the spectrum on Monday. 
All I can say is that I should have done it long ago. Spent a month on this site reading and learning all I could about which PCP fits my style and budget. That was the best thing I even did.  More then pleased with my purchase.   I am a skilled shooter with centerfire target rifles.  I thought that would transfer to the springer side. Boy was I wrong.  Lots to learn and practice with a springer/piston gun.  I do not have that much spare time or space to do so. 

[Booger]

I have been through 3 springer/piston guns in 12 months.  Lets just say I am a slow learner.  Best advice I can give is do your research on this site and listen to what the springer vets have to say.  I have decided I am not a springer/piston kind of guy.  Simply don't have the time to dedicate to learning the shooting style and to "tune" one up.  I have not abandon the pellet gun hobby.  I just moved to the PCP end of the spectrum on Monday. 
All I can say is that I should have done it long ago.  Should have read more about the lower cost springers $200 range.  I am a skilled shooter with centerfire target rifles.  I thought that would transfer to the springer side. Boy was I wrong.  Lots to learn and practice with a springer/piston gun.  I do not have that much spare time or space to do so.

Learning a springer isn't as hard as you state, I shoot 500 to 1000 shots a week (sometimes more). Who is practicing? I just sit, drink coffee, shoot targets, smoke cigarettes, and the most fun part is smoking pests in my back yard.

[VoodooSteve]

Thanks for the replies fellas, i know and use the artillery hold, and I do understand the spring guns have a lot going on while the pellet is still in the barrel, and yes speed is a fickle mistress, but a lot of fun too,lol,lol.........I bought these three, a .177, .22 and a .25 with the intention of keeping the favorite, but I think I'll just chock them up to experience and get something a bit nicer and better suited to my needs which not only include hunting but pest control too, and out here we have some pretty large and aggressive pests that have feasted on our pets, chickens and ducks........I do like precision shooting and I'd like to eventually get something that would be consistant to 70 yards or so...but until then I will check out the 95, might just be a great next step. Maybe the seal will fix the gas gun too, might just sell it and put the green towards an already modded gun......I do like building things, but the bows I do don't leave me much time for stuff like that anymore.....

[VoodooSteve]

Colorider, If I may ask, which PCP did you settle on?

[f4milytime]

Chinese airguns are junk period, that's why they need so much work (IMO), and at $200 that's pretty much what you will get a chinese gun. As of right now, I'm having trouble with one of my china airguns too, problem after problem keeps popping up, and this is with new parts, So I know the feeling.

[Blue]

There's also a "break in" period where the parts begin to mate and things settle down.

This can take a few hundred pellets.  After the rifle is settled into itself you can start evaluating groups and pellet preference.

Some of my best shooters were horrible out of the box but only required time and a small amount of elbow grease to get much better.

The time was passed shooting them (trying different holds, getting used to the triggers, etc.) and the money spent still ended up being less than if I had bought a more pedigreed brand.  I ended up taking mine apart to lube and de burr mostly so I would know how everything worked but the results of that small amount of "tuning" were amazing!

Blue

[jus Tom]

VooDooSteve..... you mentioned living in a very rural area, then in your last post mentioned "large, aggressive pests feasting on pets, chickens and ducks".....that leaves my mind to wonder ?.... an air rifle MAY not be the best choice of weapons for eradication of said pests.

I think most all of us that buy lower cost air rifles hope for the best when we unpack them, sometimes it works out, other times not so well. If you set your expectations too high,, the disappointment is tougher to accept.

[Sandspike]

Pyramid Air -Refirb. Benjamin Discovery and a Benjamin pump. They come up for sale all the time and I think you will be pleased. Shoots like a powder burner and accurate to 50 yards. Trigger is good not great but can be replaced. For another $150 you can go Marauder .25 with a match grade trigger and barrel that will quietly kill um out to 80 no problem.

[Pellgunfun]

Return it and get a PCP gun... you won't ever be sorry for that.
In my opinion NO pellet rifle should have recoil.  I had a springer once, and while it was very accurate it was super hold sensitive.  Not to mention I ruined a decent air rifle scope as the recoil broke the mount screws.  I returned it; got a PCP gun and never looked back.  Best of luck to ya.

Come on to the Dark Side....... we have cookies :-)