USA manufactured PCP Regulator ( testing and discussion ) * RESULTS POSTED

[Motorhead]

It kind of answers my question but not really. lol.

Still would like to find a reg that can mange high power 50-70 fpe

A little tiny very low flow regulator could work ... just need enough air between reg and valve to have an acceptable volume and pressure drop that is not too great.
It's all about valving opening & closing taking a sip of air at pressure systems operating at.  Higher the power GREATER the space this sip needs to come from.
Plenum volume must become like the tank is on an unregulated gun, there valve sips from entire tank volume & pressure .... in a regulated gun the plenum space must be looked at the same way.

[Rdsail]

Motor,

I understand the relationship with plenum and power, the 1 to 1 relationship of CC to FPE if you want to stay in the efficient side.  I just wonder how, for example, FX can get 50-60 fpe with hardly any plenum. In a disco, that would be about ½ the tube and in a mrod, it would be ¼ of the tube. In other workers words is there a way to get the power without the lat amount of plenum.

Daniel

[Motorhead]

Higher the pressure at the valve, greater the energy release potential with less volume is what my take would be 

[LET]

It kind of answers my question but not really. lol.

Still would like to find a reg that can mange high power 50-70 fpe

What he is saying is that the air for the shot is not coming from behind the reg. the air used is in front of it and at a constant pressure. The larger dia would allow you to shoot faster but not get more air for the shot. I guess if you need more air then you would have to move the reg. farther away from the valve to get more volume. I don't shot a PCP but that is how I understand it. If I'm wrong someone that does know will make it right. 

[rsterne]

would like to find a reg that can mange high power 50-70 fpe

To do that without 50-70 cc of volume between the regulator and valve will require running a higher setpoint than what you would with that size plenum.... The only other alternative would be to find a regulator that can cycle in well under 1 mSec. (in less than 1/1000th sec.) so that it can top up the pressure DURING the shot cycle.... If you install a gauge between the regulator and the valve and watch it during a shot, you can literally SEE the pressure drop and then build again to the setpoint.... To completely top up the pressure back to the setpoint of the regulator, even with a "Hi-flow" regulator such as the Ninja takes a full second or longer....

The inlet ports in a PCP (allowing air INTO the valve area) are quite often 1/4" diameter or larger.... That is the size you would need to try and pass the required air THROUGH a regulator during a shot.... Such a regulator would be very difficult to get to hold a close tolerance on the setpoint.... That is why we use larger plenums between the regulator and the valve, so that the regulator doesn't have to cycle during the shot cycle.... There is enough air inside the plenum to provide air for the shot.... I use a plenum volume of 1 cc for each FPE I want the gun to produce.... The most practical way I have found of doing that in high powered guns is to place the tank under the main tube, which then acts as the plenum, like this....



Sorry for the Hi-jack on the thread, but I hope I answered the question about regulators and high power.... It certainly CAN be done, it's just that there are restraints on doing it.... It can also be done by increasing the setpoint on the regulator, but that limits the pressure range available between the fill pressure and setpoint, and hence the shot count....

Bob

[Rdsail]

thanks bob.

You explanation always covers everything. I guess the catch is making a regulator that is accurate with a large bore for flow.

daniel

[Motorhead]

Was so happy with the first one ... Just received a second one for further testing / evaluation in the other guns 

[milo74]

Having spotted this post in the classified .... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=65221.msg621401#msg621401
Contacted seller and ordered one to test and play with.

* With all the R&D I do with regulated Bench Rest and Field Target rifles the design looked to have some Very well thought out design attributes that grabbed my attention 
As with most competitive shooters always looking for the proverbial Better Mouse Trap 



100% billet BRASS construction ( Steel bevel washers ) has body and spool expanding / contacting with temperature changes together. * In theory should be a very dimensionally stable unit.
 
High pressure seat adjustment is on fine threads with a lock collar to hold adjusted pressure setting.  * Like this a lot !



Internally find that More Bevel washer you use, more accurate and speedy recovery is to set point.  Looking at it appears stack is 10 washers worth. * Liked this too 

HP seat is a time proven design having air enter straight down the adjuster screw then resting on the HP Spool ends DELRIN seat.
Once seats open air flow around HP end of spool ( See the turned down diameter above o-ring ) passing into side holes intersecting spools center hole to LP side.

Regs body holding LP spool end machined as a blind hole requiring no internal C-clip.  Top HP half of Reg screws onto the bottom making unit a very robust solid assembly.  ( being basically ALL Brass it's heavy, but darn nice to see tough brass where most use aluminum 



This regulator is of a Universal nature in that it is VENTED and a hole needs to be drilled in main air tube to vent it.
* The Current HUUB sold by AGE has an integral plenum and vents threw existing gauge hole.
So we're dealing with the more typical and type design used within the industry by most others.  No biggy really 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have no vested interest here, just always willing to share the work of others felt worthy of getting there products viewed where they otherwise would get lost in the masses of posts and internet clutter.

Will be testing very soon doing some serious shake down evaluation and sharing within this thread ... Stay tuned 

Scott ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We Have testing results

* Regulator placed within one of my Field Target tuned .177 cal marauders. 
Set point adjusted for @ 1600# output pressure.
Rifle fitted with a modified factory valve, light 19gram hammer.
Pellet AA 10.3 heavy set up to shoot @ 900 FPS.

 1-10 = AMV 900 / SD = 4.21 / ES = 14 & 1.56%
11-20 = AMV 896 / SD = 1.38 / ES = 7 & .78 %
21-30 = AMV 902 / SD = 3.03 / ES = 11 & 1.22%
31-40 = AMV 903 / SD = 3.27 / ES = 11 & 1.22%
41-50 = AMV 904 / SD = 3.78 / ES = 12 & 1.33%
51-60 = AMV 908 / SD = 2.6 / ES = 9 & .99%
61-70 = AMV 908 / SD = 2.81 / ES = 8 & .88%
71-80 = AMV 908 / SD = 2.5 / ES = 8 & .88%

Fill was at 3000# and rifle dropped off regulation on shot @83 so stopped at 80 

** So for 80 shots we get:
Average Muzzle Velocity of 903.6 fps
Standard Deviation of 3.06
Extreme spread average of  10
Spread percentile 1.1%




Data plugged into Lloyd's Efficiency Calculator numbers crunch like this 

AVE FPE / CU IN per shot = 1.37
AVE BAR-CC/FPE per shot = 11.9
AVE FPE = 18.5 ft lbs
AVE PSI used per shot = 17


Needless to say it is a KEEPER !!!


*** NOTE:
This Data is with a NEW REGULATOR thats only cycles have been this shot string ... it is NOT BROKEN IN YET and would expect it to settle down further after a few 1000 cycles.


Thanks for following along ...
Regards,
Scott

Just want to add a pic of one made from stainless steel.

[Motorhead]

Drool 

[MultimediaMan]

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but here is another example from Roy... very impressive.

Seriously, I talked to Roy two weeks ago about my project and today something showed up in the mail:





Stainless Steel, 0.740" OD... 1150PSI regulator. The Challenger CH2009 project is so close to completion! Blueing the lower tube tomorrow night!

Matt

[Motorhead]

Very cool !!
Should have a P-rod reg from Roy landing here any day now also 

[RatRacer]

Ohhhhhhh!  Post up result potentials on that one.
Good results would be an awesome add on for my double air P(up)-rod project.

[Motorhead]

Just did a COMPLETE reg conversion for another GTA member on a .177 Syn-Rod using another one of MILO74's brass regulators.
Getting super consistency Reg to Reg .... Set up this customers rifle to shoot AA 10.3's @ 900 fps.
Barrel work all done and not even seasoned yet blasted 20 shots down range at 30 yards and came up with this 18 + 2 group. ( Double loaded 2  )  No stink in this kitchen 





Really really liking these regulators !!!

[azoutdoorsman]

Very nice. What's the cost?

[Motorhead]

Very nice. What's the cost?

That info is within the VERY FIRST post of this thread 
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=65221.msg621401#msg621401

[Motorhead]

Very cool !!
Should have a P-rod reg from Roy landing here any day now also 

Just a Tad late update on the P-rod regulator from Milo74 
* Cut and paste sent to the pistols owner a few week ago.

Kevin,
Well with velocity adjuster at mid way ... how about those Falcon 7.3's at @ 775 fps making 9.74 ft lbs and doing 60 shots.  ** No lie .... stupid efficiency beyond my expectations !!

Sweet spot looks to be @ 2800 fill and taking 40 shots.
Spread for that 40 shots has a LOW of 775 and a HIGH of 783 .... ES of 8 fps
This WILL tighten up further as regulator settles / breaks in.

**  That is where we're at right now with a balanced tune having gun running once off the Reg without dipping or spiking in velocity.
This 60 shots on a 3K fill shooting down to 1k ( Reg set at @ 1.5K )
Want it shooting faster just tighten up the hammer tension a tad, tho shots will only be stable while under regulation which most likely going to be @ 30-35 *Right now it's in the velocity / power sweet spot however.


You should love it, pistol is shooting AWESOME !!! set were it is currently.

Pistol is not getting into owners hands till the End of June being delivered to him at the Ashland Oregon States FT championship.
Until then all we got on the P-rod regulator 

Scott

[RatRacer]

Dang.
Is that with the factory hammer, or one of your weight watcher specials?

[Motorhead]

Dang.
Is that with the factory hammer, or one of your weight watcher specials?

Hammer used was one already in pistol that was a RL customs 22XX based .177 cal FT rig running on 3K.  Hammer looked like a typical 22XX hammer that had been drilled out down entire depth of spring cavity. Then having a delrin guide dropped in to center the spring. * never weighed however.

Give me a couple days to pop it out and get a weight ... likely THAT is important  to other tuners

[Frank in Fairfield]

Just did a COMPLETE reg conversion for another GTA member on a .177 Syn-Rod using another one of MILO74's brass regulators.
Getting super consistency Reg to Reg .... Set up this customers rifle to shoot AA 10.3's @ 900 fps.
Barrel work all done and not even seasoned yet blasted 20 shots down range at 30 yards and came up with this 18 + 2 group. ( Double loaded 2  )  No stink in this kitchen 





Really really liking these regulators !!!

I love it. This is the target delivered to me with the rifle this morning. Yes he was using Crosman 10.5 from the tin:

[Pellgunfun]

Please everyone... allow me to ask a really "dumb" question here without getting flamed :-)

Will there still be a need for a De-pinger or can the regulator also act as one, thus killing two birds with one stone?  Please forgive my ignorance.