Tired of pumping (video link updated)

[shorty]

Did a little reinforcing today and it looks like 1" square tubing starts to flex at 2750psi. It's close to the 3000 psi mark but seeing the tubing flex a little bit didn't seem to be safe.

Maybe some angle iron along the 1" square tubing will stop the flex and get it to the 3000 psi mark.

I can't stop thinking about cutting the pump in half and making something small and portable. It may take more pumps to get the same psi but when a motor is doing the pumping I guess it really doesn't matter.

[shorty]

Received the ATX 600 watt power supply last night and hard wired the 12v side. Supposedly the 12v side should hit 24amps. Well, I don't have an amp meter but the power supply was able to run the pump up to 2000psi and then the current overload shuts off the power supply. "dang", should have got a larger power supply.

Anyway, I charged from 1000psi to 2000psi 5 times and another 5 or so times from 1200psi to 1500psi to re-tune the marauder.

The battery definitely works better than the power supply. I'll probably just get a small tractor battery for charging greater than 2000psi.

Still need to make a gun holder and mount the power supply permanently.

[HYspd]

Shorty.. why on earth are you trying to run a 24V system on 12V??? that's the short cut to Burn Out City


for DC the math is really simple...work is called watts and watts = amps x volts

if you keep the work (watts) the same, changing voltage also changes amperage in such a way that doubling voltage reduces amps by half..

1200watts = 12Volts x 100Amps.....OR..... 1200watts = 24Volts x 50Amps

in circuit design Amps governs wire size with more Amps needing bigger wires...by running your 24Volt system at 12Volts you are risking overloading the wires...

the smaller the wire in relation to the amps trying to get through the wire the more resistance goes up, resistance creates heat, which increases resistance, which creates heat and if not limited or controlled causes bad smelling expensive smoke to pout out said wires..

easiest way to get 24 volts at the amperage you can use.....is to get 2 big 12Volt deep cycle batteries...
take the first battery and hook it's negative terminal up to your system, then hook that battery's positive terminal to the negative terminal on the second battery and use the second battery's positive terminal to power your system...

use a car battery charger to recharge them one at a time.....OR you can take the link wire between the two batteries out and use two chargers
one for each battery...

that will be much cheaper than trying to find a 120Vac source to 24Volt DC power supply that will supply enough amperage to power your system without voltage dropping off as amperage increases (EI..as the motor starts to work more when the pressure rises)


bottom line....by using big batteries you get

TRUE DC power, which dc circuits just love compared to the mess that comes out of most cheap high amp AC source power supplies when they are pushed hard...a decent computer power supply these days costs $200 and puts out 1500watts (many will argue the point, but talk to a high end graphics quality gamer, WE know big computer power like only few others do)

AND LOTS OF IT....honestly when I am ding something that take more time than just starting a car, I use electric forklift batteries, no lie, can provide pics of the setup I use to start my bike when it gets grumpy...a 1foot by 3foot forklift battery and and welding machine ground cable jumpers that BOLT DOWN on both ends....not power loss allowed here!

EASY TO RECHARGE....a car charger or two... get to know the what the lights or meters mean and maybe get a small cheap meter to use to check voltages and a few tips on how it to use to learn about your batteries...

EASY TO HOOK UP....hey just three wires, one to the motor, one from the motor and one between the batteries....with ONLY TWO things ot pay attention to, ALL the wires need to be sized to match the motors demand for power and you have to get the polarity right...when that's hard to do...



ELECTRICAL CAUTIONARY TIP....
one other thing WHATEVER YOU DO get a handheld infrared thermometer gun thing...ANYTHING that wire or connection that get's over 110F on a 80F day is pushing the limits on being loose or over loaded...

[shorty]

Thanks for the info hyspd.

I figured I was going to pull more than 20amps at 12volts. I just thought it wouldn't be so prematurely. The reason for the 12 volts was to slow the motor from 30 rpm to 15 rpm without any additional gear reduction. As far as I know, that's how dc motors and motor controls work.
The motor is rated at 23amps and the power supply has a current limit shut off at 24amps. Figured that would save the motor and power supply at that combination.

As you can tell, the pump contraption is the same concept as everyone's else. I just wanted to see if I could do it a little different than anyone else. Like the pump upside down so the gun is not on the ground and using a dc motor instead of ac motor without any additional pulleys or gear reduction besides what's on the motor. Lastly, make the build for less than $100.

I will most likely go the battery route soon along with the 24v at 30rpm. I really need 3000psi.

I still can't stop thinking about chopping the pump in half. For some reason it makes sense to me. Someone please talk me about of it.

 If I am thinking correctly, half the pump should take the same amount of force to pump at any given PSI but, the leverage of the pump crank arm is half as well which decreases the amount of torque needed from the motor. This should mean that you wouldn't need a 1/2 horse motor @ 100:1. With that being said it may be possible to get a smaller motor and make the whole contraption much smaller and portable. Maybe small enough to be able to bring the contraption with you in the truck. When you need to fill, all you do is plug it into your cigarette  lighter.

Stupid pumps. All I can say so far, I envy all you guys with the money for real compressors. Today was the most I ever shot the marauder ( in one session) because i didn't have to pump. It really felt good to not pump and made shooting more pleasurable.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  Shorty I'm not sure how old you are but if my guess is correct I would be happy to trade my money for your youth. Unless we are born with a silver spoon while raising a family and buying houses leaves you short on cash until 40 or so unless you do like me and start over from zero at 52. I'm 68 this December and have only gotten to the more money than needs part in the last 5 years

[shorty]

Yup, money ain't everything if you don't have your health and happiness. No silver spoon here. I am very blessed with two healthy kids ( 6 and 8 ) , a hard working wife and being employed at the same place of employment for the past 22 years. She works at night and I work during the day.

 Even though I am 41 this year, I too think of youth. Although, I think about retirement more now than ever while trying to keep my health. My father and father in law are 66 and 67. Both of those guys still work full time. They don't need to work, they just work. I really have no idea why they do this.

I used to have all the cool toys in my 20's and early 30's. The cool toys are now gone and the focus is on the kids. Soon, the kids will grow up and maybe I can have the cool toys again.

As far as the money, my family will always be frugal and innovated. I see it in my son and daughter already. They remind me of my youth everyday.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  Yup! Family first, kids then wife then self  that has always been my priority and no regrets. My 41 y/o son has the same ethic so I guess I did something right. Both my step-sons are good kids 17 and 21 y/o and hard workers so I guess now I can afford to look at more play time and a little less work 

[avator]

Yup! Family first, kids then wife then self  that has always been my priority and no regrets. My 41 y/o son has the same ethic so I guess I did something right. Both my step-sons are good kids 17 and 21 y/o and hard workers so I guess now I can afford to look at more play time and a little less work 

Good for you Don. It's our time now. Betty Lou and I enjoy every minute we have together of everyday and live each one as if it were the last.

[RobZfisherman]

 Good thread! here's my take on pumping;

 If you are new to PCPs and don't have an unlimited budget you're gonna be pumping. Or just not shooting. So we pump away and it's not that bad with a good pump (Hill in my case) and low fill sounds really good unless high fill is your real need.

  I consider the Mrod a "standard" fill pressure if tuned for it's maximum potential and your top off pressure is around 3000 psi and topped off from your end pressure whatever that may be.  The tune I worked out for myself is 20 shots starting from 2900 and shot down to 2200 psi and then a process begins; Get rifle on ground to reach a hose from the pump that is way too short and stiff (foam pad helps here) and pump in even and steady full strokes until filled. For me that's an average of 3.5 strokes per shot. It takes about 8 pumps to prime the hose and get on the inlet valve and then the effort climbs steadily. So slightly less than 75 strokes overall on average.

 I'm 47 years old and work construction so pumping through to the end pressure is not a problem but by the 50th stroke there's some work being done and your gonna "warm up" by fill time, if you want those next 20 shots to count you have to wait a bit to settle down to not waste pellets. Both pumping and cool down eat into your time that you have available. A good reference to effort is; my son weighs 150#s and can suspend himself on the pump handle at 2600 psi.

 Enter the tank and it takes more time to load 1 clip than charge the rifle! Night and day difference, all day.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  Hand Pump is an ok back up fill but compressor and tank makes the whole process much better then it is open valve fill rifle load magazines shoot and repeat no need to wait for pulse to go back to normal. Much better and way more fun, just burn through pellets much faster

[RMM]

Yup, money ain't everything if you don't have your health and happiness. No silver spoon here. I am very blessed with two healthy kids ( 6 and 8 ) , a hard working wife and being employed at the same place of employment for the past 22 years. She works at night and I work during the day.

 Even though I am 41 this year, I too think of youth. Although, I think about retirement more now than ever while trying to keep my health. My father and father in law are 66 and 67. Both of those guys still work full time. They don't need to work, they just work. I really have no idea why they do this.

I used to have all the cool toys in my 20's and early 30's. The cool toys are now gone and the focus is on the kids. Soon, the kids will grow up and maybe I can have the cool toys again.

As far as the money, my family will always be frugal and innovated. I see it in my son and daughter already. They remind me of my youth everyday.

You've got your priorities in order shorty. 

As far as your ingenuity I applaud it, but don't let the smoke out.   

The closest I've came to a low pressure 1.5K DC light weight mechanized fill pump was my mentioned 12VDC winch as a driver.  BUT!!  I can hand pump up to 1.5K from 1K very easy.  For in the field, hunting, plinking or target shooting I did another rsterne project and setup a 22ci Guerilla tank with a 1.5K Ninja regulator and a fill whip that can fit in a backpack, this is sweet and best of all no pumping. 

Please keep us informed on your project and please keep us informed of its outcome. 

[chiro972b]

I scanned all these posts and can't for the life of me understand what you guys are doing all this for. You are spending lots go build Rube Goldgerg devices to automate a pump that won't hold up anyway. If the goal is to stop having to pump up your gun why don't you just get an 88 cu ft tank and get it filled to 4500 psi and be done. I filled mine a couple of months ago and it is still at 3900 psi. Even if it were a longer than 30 mile drive to get filled for me it would be worth it. Hook the gun up, turn the valve and 30 seconds later its ready to shoot.

[avator]

I scanned all these posts and can't for the life of me understand what you guys are doing all this for. You are spending lots go build Rube Goldgerg devices to automate a pump that won't hold up anyway. If the goal is to stop having to pump up your gun why don't you just get an 88 cu ft tank and get it filled to 4500 psi and be done. I filled mine a couple of months ago and it is still at 3900 psi. Even if it were a longer than 30 mile drive to get filled for me it would be worth it. Hook the gun up, turn the valve and 30 seconds later its ready to shoot.

I remember when I was young and this kid in my villiage was doing crazy things. Everyone thought something was wrong with him. They would walk past his house and yell things like... "Ben, you crazy boy, you better stop fooling with that lightning like that. Why don't you just take a match and light the oil lamp like the rest of us before you get hurt!"

[RMM]

I scanned all these posts and can't for the life of me understand what you guys are doing all this for. You are spending lots go build Rube Goldgerg devices to automate a pump that won't hold up anyway. If the goal is to stop having to pump up your gun why don't you just get an 88 cu ft tank and get it filled to 4500 psi and be done. I filled mine a couple of months ago and it is still at 3900 psi. Even if it were a longer than 30 mile drive to get filled for me it would be worth it. Hook the gun up, turn the valve and 30 seconds later its ready to shoot.

Because we can.  Velle est posse.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  Many of us on this forum love to tinker and building a better mouse trap just goes with the territory. Keep on building , if we quit looking to make things better we will become stagnant and no joy there

[shorty]

Wow is all I can say. I can't stop thinking of building and selling. I just seen a post the other day of an older gentleman talking about pcp fill and 1500 to 2000 psi is just about what he can handle with his bum leg or hip or something. These are the people that need it and can't afford the expensive compressors ( our friends )

guys,
I got lucky with the 24vdc 600# in" right angle drive motor ($22). Running this motor on 12 volts (battery) brings it to 15 rpm and I can get to 2700 psi without any stalling of the motor. The reason why I stop at 2700psi with the battery is because the 1" tubing begins to flex ( should have used 2" tubing).

If I had a way to place a video I would. It works and I haven't hand pumped since. Not only that, it is quite. Not like the ones you hear on youtube.

I have to give my father credit because he gave me a good idea to use one of those car jump starter packs. Charger and battery in one. The PC power supply works great if you only want to go to 2000psi. Last week I actually connected my compressor to the pump (75psi) and filled my friends guppy paint ball tank to 2000psi in just under an hour and a half from empty ( no kidding). Ofcourse stopping to cool every once in a while.

My build cost me a couple weekends ( maybe 2 or 4 hrs a weekend) and under $100 to do.

Iam desperately looking for cheap motors to do builds like this. The latest motor I found was this ( http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bison/8-4-RPM-230-VAC-1-6-HP-BISON-GEARMOTOR-5-1505.axd).

Perfect motor and gear ratio but 208v or 220v usually doesn't go over well. But for the price of the motor and the steel, a build like this could be just about $100 cost.

I was also considering using one of those cheap engine stands from harbor freight (metal work already done ) and only $50 bucks.



Believe me, my contraption is a piece of &^^&, but it works. I think that's all it matters. If someone can help me post a video, I'll try it.

[avator]

Wow is all I can say. I can't stop thinking of building and selling. I just seen a post the other day of an older gentleman talking about pcp fill and 1500 to 2000 psi is just about what he can handle with his bum leg or hip or something. These are the people that need it and can't afford the expensive compressors ( our friends )

guys,
I got lucky with the 24vdc 600# in" right angle drive motor ($22). Running this motor on 12 volts (battery) brings it to 15 rpm and I can get to 2700 psi without any stalling of the motor. The reason why I stop at 2700psi with the battery is because the 1" tubing begins to flex ( should have used 2" tubing).

If I had a way to place a video I would. It works and I haven't hand pumped since. Not only that, it is quite. Not like the ones you hear on youtube.

I have to give my father credit because he gave me a good idea to use one of those car jump starter packs. Charger and battery in one. The PC power supply works great if you only want to go to 2000psi. Last week I actually connected my compressor to the pump (75psi) and filled my friends guppy paint ball tank to 2000psi in just under an hour and a half from empty ( no kidding). Ofcourse stopping to cool every once in a while.

My build cost me a couple weekends ( maybe 2 or 4 hrs a weekend) and under $100 to do.

Iam desperately looking for cheap motors to do builds like this. The latest motor I found was this ( http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bison/8-4-RPM-230-VAC-1-6-HP-BISON-GEARMOTOR-5-1505.axd).

Perfect motor and gear ratio but 208v or 220v usually doesn't go over well. But for the price of the motor and the steel, a build like this could be just about $100 cost.

I was also considering using one of those cheap engine stands from harbor freight (metal work already done ) and only $50 bucks.



Believe me, my contraption is a piece of &^^&, but it works. I think that's all it matters. If someone can help me post a video, I'll try it.

You just keep on doing what you're doing. I feel ya.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  At the end of the day it is all about having fun and if part of the fun is building an affordable high pressure pump have at it and enjoy the accomplishment. The folks who question ingenuity of others have limited imaginations and need to applaud  not detract.

[shorty]

Borrowed my wifes google account to do this.





Part 1 is with the PC power supply from around 1500psi to 2000 psi before current overload shut the power supply off.
Part 2 is using a very old battery that barely holds a charge ( 2000 psi to 2700psi ) I stopped the video before 2700psi but wanted to prove it goes well over 2000psi.

[Smoketown]

Shorty,

Nice videos ...

Looks like you can apply for an Australian patent! 

Seriously, the weight of the motor at the base of the unit is a great idea!   

Cheers,
Smoketown