Lathe

[lwaresigns@yahoo.com]

Looking for some input on Lathes. Anyone have working experience with the Chinese 7x14" lathes,Will they holdup, plastic gears?, seem very light duty to me.
I have been looking for one of the old (50-60s) Sears lathes, hard to find with tooling. Is this better choice?
Just need for light work on my AGs any help would be appreciated. Thank you

[daved]

Lots of guys do lots of really nice work with those little lathes.  Lots of info available on the web, just Google mini lathes.  If all you're planning is tinkering with your own guns, one of them would probably be fine, as long as you're not planning on doing a lot of barrel work.

That said, there are some serious limitations, the major one being bore through the headstock.  3/4" or less is typical for the little machines, and that makes that 12-14" between centers a solid limit.  My lathe is an older, used Grizzly 12x24, but with a 1 9/16" headstock bore, I can handle much longer stock than 24".

The old Sears Atlas lathes were decent machines, but light and flexible from what I've read.  For what it would cost to find and refurbish one, you could buy a much newer, heavier machine, or even a brand new machine.  Most of the Chinese machines come out of the same factory and just get different paint jobs for the different brands.  Sound familiar :-)?  Harbor Freight seems to have the lowest prices, but also the highest customer service issues.  Grizzly is more expensive, but have a reputation for outstanding CS.  I'm not a big fan of Chinese everything, but I've been very happy with my Grizzly tools, and I have a few.  When it's time to add a mill to my shop, it'll probably be a Grizzly.

BTW, contrary to popular opinion, you do NOT need to budget the same amount for tooling as you have in the lathe :-).  Although you can spend thousands, you don't have to.  My tooling so far is pretty basic, but it does what I need it to do.  Total cost to date is under $500.  Here's a good source for info and stuff for the small to medium machines: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/default.php  Check out the value packages, that's what I started with, and it's worked out well for me.  I've added a few items as I figured out what I really needed, but one of those kits would be a good place to start.  Sorry I got so long winded, hope some of it's useful.  Later.

Dave 

[lwaresigns@yahoo.com]

Yep: it sure is Dave. I'm old and stuburn ,but was stating to lean in that direction  as much as I don't want too .
Thanks for reply

[bobbyjim]

Bought my 1937 Atlas/Craftsman 12X36 on Craig's List for $300.00 WITH a couple hundred lbs of tooling. This lathe with tooling was worth about $750.00 and could be broken up and sold for lots more. I prefer the look of look old American Lathes. So do a lot of others and that's why there is a demand for them. When they come up for sale locally you better be ready to run. They are usually gone in a matter of a few hours. J

My lathe came with a couple hundred lbs of tooling that alone would have cost me another $1000.00 used. I didn't have to buy anything extra.
HSS bits, carbide inserts, loads of tool holders, boring bars, face plates, chucks, milling attachment, collets, tool posts, live & dead centers, drills, dial indicators, multiples of each and lots & lots more.  So you can save a lot if you find the right deal. Look for one that includes lots of tooling in the price.

Over the years I have added all kinds of dial indicators, protractors, calipers, knurling tools at super cheap prices by watching ebay for deals on AMERICAN MADE TOOLS.

The Old Atlas/Craftsman lathe will do most anything an air gunner wants, so will a Chinese. But what will your Chinese lathe be worth 73 years from now? Will some one fight over buying it? Will parts still be available for it? I can buy any part for and Atlas/Craftsman off of ebay and have in a couple of days. And new parts are still available.
 

[lwaresigns@yahoo.com]

BobbieJim thanks for the reply. I agree with you if you can luck out and find one. I have been looking nothing but high priced junk around here. Im not in that big a rush so will keep on looking a little longer.

[dksac2]

Check with used machinery dealers.
Since CNC has come out and with the economy in the tank and many businesses closing, there are some real deals to be had on used lathes.

I had a 36" Grizzly lathe and after some work and a good 6 jaw chuck it did some very good work.
I also have one of the small China lathes and for small parts, it does a pretty good job. There are lots of accessories for them and a lot of modifications that can be made (do a web search).
If you are not going to do barrel work, they are not a bad deal for the money.
You can break the gears if you don't have the drives locked down right, but they are cheap and easy to replace.

I've done some nice work with mine. I sold the big lathe when I retired from my gunsmithing business and miss it a lot, but have the use of a friends shop for the larger stuff. The small stuff I do on the chinese lathe and it turns out some decent work.
You will have to spend some time getting it aligned and adjusted, but once done, they do pretty good.

If you find a cheap 7 X 10, you can buy a 14" bed for just over $110. and make it into a longer bed, the parts just swap along with some holes you need to drill and tap.

Best Regards,  John K

[lwaresigns@yahoo.com]

Thank John for info,I have  been looking. I live about 60 miles from Chatt and Knoxville out in the boonies so LSN and Craigs List are it for me. I'll probably go the Chinese route. I saw the bed extension also saw where one guy added the 14" onto his mini. came up with a 24" bed . Bet that was a trip getting it all aligned. Anyway they (Chinese Lathes) are interesting .Thats Probably the way I'm going.
 Thanks Again  
  Larry





 

[MichaelM]

I picked up a 9x20 on craigs list not to long ago for a really good price.... took me a few months of searching before I found her though..... keep your eyes open it will happen

[Rescue35]

If you are new to machining I suggest getting a new lathe, as big as you can afford. You can pick up a 9x20 from harbour freight for about $800 after the 20% discount that is in every magazine I see. Also check outwww.wttool.com

I love the older US lathes but they are often in need of a rebuild which takes time and money. Sometimes ironically enough it even takes a lathe.



Edit to correct my math and add link.

[dksac2]

Finding good prices on used American Lathes is not that hard, but a larger lathe will cost a minimum of $1000. to get it crated and shipped any distance, that's kind of the killer.
If you can find something local, you will save $$$
Also beware of the 3 phase lathe motors, these require a rotery converter which are darn expensive.

John K

[chronic]

Those little 7x12 lathes are freakishly capable little machines... after I lapped my gibs, had everything adjusted how I liked, it was such an accurate little unit. I had no issues hitting .001" tolerances on mine, plus it took a beating. I did alot of bigger work which barely fit the little guy, but this is where it lacks power to rip parts down, being variable speed you have optimum part sizes where it has the most power to do anything with. Basically all my projects were in aluminum... any steel work it struggled unless you were just drilling small holes and taking .050" off the od or something.
Like guys have said, with such a small spindle bore diameter, larger longer work had to be thought through carefully and half the time you couldn't fit it.

I bought a 10x18" lathe from a store in canada similar to harbour freight and its so much nicer having a geared head, the thing weighs about 4x as much which is nice. Probably my favourite part is it feels like an actual lathe, the hand wheels aren't plastic and super tiny, I smashed my fingers inbetween the z axis and x axis wheels on my 7x12 numerous times. Still chinese so it takes a bit of messing around to set it up, biggest tip for chinese geared head lathes is making your self a good magnetic drain plug.

Bigger is better if you can afford it money wise and space...

On the flip side, if you ever decide to get your self a mini mill, those x2's you see at harbour freight and all over the net... They can handle so much more than the similar sized lathes... After a few typical set up procedures like lapping the gibs, relubing, setting gear mesh etc. If you reinforce the column, and better yet if you just get rid of the head tilting feature all together and mount the column solid to the base. They can chew through so much aluminum its amazing.
Then if you get your self a belt drive conversion you're golden. They are alot more versatile and there hasn't been too much I couldn't do on mine so long as I could fit it on the table. Of course same rule applies to these too, bigger is better 

[Rescue35]

Hey Larry,

I've been contemplating selling my Craftsman 109 6" lathe and I'm in Knoxville regularly too. Research that model (it is a small lathe) and if it's something you might be interested in let me know.

[lwaresigns@yahoo.com]

Well:
Its like this, went to look at a 6" Southbend over in Smithville turned out it was junk. But sitting over in the corner was an older HF 7x10 man said it worked great. I gave $200 for it took it home and been slicing an dicing ever since, its working good. Got a 14" bed kit on the way. Now just a little bigger chuck and I'm on my way to Happy Lathe Land.
Thanks to all, for all your advice it was great maybe some way I can pay it forward
Thank you
Larry
 

[Pete]

Well:
Its like this, went to look at a 6" Southbend over in Smithville turned out it was junk. But sitting over in the corner was an older HF 7x10 man said it worked great. I gave $200 for it took it home and been slicing an dicing ever since, its working good. Got a 14" bed kit on the way. Now just a little bigger chuck and I'm on my way to Happy Lathe Land.
Thanks to all, for all your advice it was great maybe some way I can pay it forward
Thank you
Larry
 

good fined...

The chucks on these small lathes are bit of a pain in the ?
the 80mm it has only has a 16mm bore..to small for anything almost.
to get a chuck with a 25mm 1" bore you need to go to a 125mm
5" chuck which has a 30mm bore...BUT they often course the lathe to
trip out on the over load....it was not designed to start with that
much weight...

the 100mm 4" chuck has a 22mm  7/8" bore...but can be bored to 26mm.

You really need to be able to get 25mm 1'' inside the chuck body to get
a decent grip...

[Rescue35]

Good find. Welcome to the club

[lwaresigns@yahoo.com]

The 4" 4 jaw is what I'm going for, should be enough for what I do. The bed I just wanted figured I got the lathe cheap  so why not. Just don't tell the boss and Cheif Financial Officer, She really get upset, I find it best not to say a word on certain things

[woogie_man]

Well lets get some pics man!!

I am in the same boat... I had a really nice 9x20 Jet lathe.... man I miss that thing.  Was just to heavy to cary it to my basement alone.  Though I did sell it for more than I bought it for, so all in all not to bad.

[chronic]

4 jaws the best, 3 jaw's are great when they're clean and true'd up.. otherwise you fight to get parts dialed. 4 jaw, doesn't matter

The 14" bed is going to be awesome! I always pulled my tail stock off when I didn't need it just for some extra room on my 7x12. You can find smaller motor pulleys for a bit of extra power.
Also a popular mod for the mini mills and lathes is replacing the stock motor controller with a kblc board controller. You can adjust the overload, torque and power output on that board I guess. Supposedly its pretty easy to install and gives the little machines a ton of extra juice.

Its a great little machine, I really miss mine.

[daved]

Well lets get some pics man!!

I am in the same boat... I had a really nice 9x20 Jet lathe.... man I miss that thing.  Was just to heavy to cary it to my basement alone.  Though I did sell it for more than I bought it for, so all in all not to bad.

Well, if it's pics you want ;-)...





This is my '80's vintage Grizzly 12x24 belt drive lathe.  Not pretty, but it does what I want it to do, and is a much more powerful, capable machine than the new one I'd intended to buy.  Later.

Dave

[woogie_man]

Lovely machine man..... Those are the tools that we need.   Those things never fall apart.