FLYING DRAGON-PCP TECHNICAL DATA SECTION.

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO VALVE WORK ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP, SOMETHING YOU MAY, OR MAY NOT NEED:

This is again a situation where I cannot transfer the pictures, so you can click on image url, or please click on the link to see all of the details, it is the 8th post down on the 2nd page.

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=59814.new;topicseen#new


"This is a pic of the Flying Dragon PCP valve , notice the spring stand off that I made for the valve ."

 http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2260.JPG

"This is what the stand off does , it acts as a spring guide and a stand off for spring tension ."

 http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF22631.JPG

"This is a pic of the stand off mounted in the valve cartridge ."

 http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2261.JPG

 "This pic is of the valve cartridge with the stand off installed looking inside ."

 http://www.hunt101.com/data/583/medium/DSCF2262.JPG


 "a lot of folks have been asking me about this and this is the only flaw I have found in the FDPCP which is pretty remarkable , this is a wonderful little platform for the tinkerer and the hunter for the stately price of $100".



 Regards, Nick (From Nick Hammack.)

 

 
 
 
 
   

 

IN REFERENCE TO VALVE WORK ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:

This is just a possible alternative to the above mentioned, IF it is an issue for you, as it may not be:

My concern would be the guide robbing the valve of air. I know that Mike has taken some of these types of valves (QB-VALVES) and has taken the poppet, turned it down to fit the spring, so the poppet is a guide in itself.

You can also drill the center of the valve where the screw head is placed instead, to about .336 of an inch or less and then lengthen the slots downward another half inch, so that when the air-tube is screwed down to the seal, there is more slot exposed for more air to get through.

Beauty of the QB-VALVE in these I guess, is all of the modding that has already taken place over the years.

Respectfully,

Al.

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO IMPROVING THE VALVE ON THE FD-PCP IF NEED BE:

Here's a more detailed version of Nick's modification, more explanation. Scroll down to the 6th post to see another option for modifications to the valve:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1390869883/Flying+Dragon+PCP+Valve+Fix

Al.

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO O-RINGS FOR THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:

This is some good information on o-rings that you can consider for use with the FD-PCP, as well as where to get them. Most Auto Parts Stores have o-ring sets that you can purchase locally and can work just fine with an Air Powered Air-Gun. Remember, the valve in the FD-PCP is basically the same valve as found in the QB-LINE of Air-Rifles, but with a few little modifications by Mike M.

"Firstly to establish a context, we're talking about whether a polyurethane O-ring is needed for the -113 on the body of the valve.

In this application, regular variety Buna-N (nitrile) O-rings are fine.  We're dealing with air, not CO2.  CO2 will permeate through Buna-N; air will not. 

You want urethane when an O-ring is subject to either abrasion through continuously sliding back and forth on a surface (especially where buildup of heat is a complicating factor), or when the O-ring is subject to being nicked or torn on installation.  Polyurethane is tops for toughness if there is a slight burr or sharp edge that the O-ring passes when it is being installed.

The former isn't a factor here; it's a static O-ring.  I don't think the latter is either.  I don't have one of these rifles but if you install the valve from the end where the fill nipple was installed, I don't think the valve O-ring passes any sharp edges or holes.  That can sometimes be an issue with QB rifles that have a tank block because of the two holes cross-drilled through the tube so if there are any sharp edges, debur them before you reassemble. 

The way you install the valve is like this:  only screw the valve halves together loosely so as not to compress the O-ring.  Then slide the valve down into the tube and lock it into its home position by installing its screw(s) through the outside of the tube.  Then as a final step, you reach down into the tube with a wide blade and engage the slot in the face of the valve and tighten it to compress the O-ring and form a good seal. 

BTW for this step, I use a 3/4"W x 1/8" thick piece of bar stock from the hardware store.  I needed to just barely round off the edges with a file to help it fit snugly into the tube, and I used an angle grinder to reduce the thickness at the tip so it would fit into the slot in the face of the valve.  Works really well." (From nervoustrigger.)

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO ADDING A PSI-GAUGE TO THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP AIR-RIFLE:

Here's a picture of a fully integrated PSI-GAUGE mounted in the stock forearm of the Flying Dragon-PCP Air-Rifle:

Complete details soon to follow!

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY AT 50-YARDS WITH .177 FLYING DRAGON-PCP:

Please click on the link below to see all of the pictures. It is the very first post:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61921.0

"I finished the work on the one gun ,  I made the trigger 24 oz. everything is polished to the max  , the barrel has an extension on it  , I re crowned the barrel   and the final weight is 7 lbs. 4.5 oz.

I filed the gap between the barrel and the fill knob free floating the barrel and now the little gun is quite modest on the report as well with my extension in place .

The wind was blowing a might today and I did not want to go up the hill to the bench ,  so I got my shooting sticks out and used the rangefinder and set up a target at 50 yards after the sight in I shot the following groups using the .177 with 10.5 gr. CHP's .

I worked my way up on fill pressures shooting 5 shot groups and refilling to the next pressure level , I took the pellets straight out of the tin and did not police them at all ,  the next time I will shoot off the bench and will use a skirt flairing tool to see if I can get a bit better ,  from what I see I do not need an LW barrel at all ,  I know I can do better off the bench but as one can see it is not all bad right now .

Picture of the target is sideways so just orientate to the writing .









Best Regards, Nick

Best 100 bucks I have spent in a long time ,  Thanks Mike  , I will be buying more soon" (By Nick Hammack.)

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO A SMALL "FIELD CARRY REFILL TANK" FOR THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:

Please click on the link for more information, details and comments. The pictures are on the 9th post down on the second page:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61116.0

"I received my 13CU/3000 tank with slide fill adaptor from Tim at MAC 1 and my first impressions are:  NICE... it is exactly what I was looking for. Light weight, high quality, and works well. 1600 psi regulated;

I have tuned my FD-PCP to shoot a 7 shot string in the mid to low 900 fps range within a 4% spread and will top off the gun after the 7th shot.
918
924
932
929
923
913
902
The gun is pretty close to 1000 after the 7 shots and the buddy tank will fill it back to 1600 psi about 5 times, which is more than enough for a hunting day in the field.

One thing I have learned after receiving the tank is pumping to 3000 psi,  even on a 13 CU tank,  is a real workout. Only takes 5 or 10 minutes, but you will appreciate Mike recommending 1500 psi for the FD-PCP. Pumping from 2000psi to 3000psi will put you in shape if you are not already there... " (From smythsg.)

[Nick Hammack]

I had a bit of time today and did some testing with the .22 cal FDPCP

Got 730 fps out of 28 gr. En jin pellet


The following was at a 2K fill and shot down to 1400psi using CP's 14.3 gr.

970,984,975,961,959,947,935,923,913,896  I could have used a bit more fill pressure on this to utilize the bell curve a bit .


This string was a 2K fill and shot down to 1400 using Kodiak Heavy @ 21.1 gr,


880,865,861,849,837,829,820,807,796,781.

I upped the fill pressure a bit to 2200psi and shot the following using the Kodiak 21.1,  looks very promising using the .22 cal and I think with a bit of warm weather and a bit of time is shall prove to be a very nice rig .

843,834,850,868,871,869,862,855,844,834,819,813,800,789,777.


The Kodiak's look like it is going to be very promising indeed we shall see how they shoot and I think it will be very consistant from the numbers I see with just a few minutes to play with today .

This takes the energy to 30.5 ftlbs  with the cps at 14.3 gr,   and 35.47 ftlbs with Kodiaks at 21.1 gr,


Regards ,  Nick


PS ,  DenSkin and I have been talking about what I should and can do on valve modification to this platform and I think I will be putting a .30 cal barrel on one of the ole girls and seeing what I can get out of it then ,  I do love this platform it is a wonderful 100 bucks spent ,  I can own a .177,.22,.25,.30 and still have no money in the project .
 

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO ACCURACY TEST RESULTS IN .177 and .22, USING DIFFERENT PELLETS AT VARIOUS DISTANCES:

Please click on the link to see all of the pictures and accuracy test results:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=61555.0

"The weather wasn't cooperating, but I had to shoot when I could.  I've already been waiting a month since I got my .177 and .22 XS60C PCP rifles from Mike.  The good news is that both have been holding pressure just fine.  Started off here with Iowa air and topped off with a bit of the CA stuff.   

While viewing these results keep in mind;
1.  I don't usually shoot groups.  The makeshift "bench" in the first picture is my first attempt at this.  I couldn't keep the rifle perfectly still between my poor posture (squatting) and gusting wind.
2.  Both guns essentially unmolested.  No barrel cleaning, adjusting, etc.  Front and rear sights removed.  Rear sight screw holes filled in with grub screws.  That's it.  Shots taken without LDC. 
3.  Weather consisted of overcast, gusting light/moderate winds, and at the end it started to sprinkle, then rain.  Pics uploaded in the order they were shot. 
4.  For reference the penny is .75 inches.
5.  Guns were recharged after every five shots. 

Picture of the "bench" and the .22 with a BSA 4-16 tactical.  The bench is a towel on top of a milk crate on top of a Rubbermade bin....


25 yards with 18.13gr JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy.


25 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.


45 yards with 18.13gr JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy.


45 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.


45 yards with 14.5gr RWS Superdome. Obviously the gun doesn't like these.


45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Destroyer (sampler pack).


45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Pointed (sampler pack).


45 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.


45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Domed (sampler pack).  Lots of vertical stringing here.  May be fill issue.   


45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Pointed (sampler pack). 


45 yards with 14.3 Crosman Pointed (sampler pack). 


45 yards with 13.43gr AA Falcon.  You can see the weather is really starting to deteriorate.



Waited for a dry spell, then went out and tried the .177 XS60C PCP.  Again, weather deteriorated towards the end.  Had to quit after testing two pellets.  This rifle has a unproven Centerpoint 4-16 scope attached.  Bought used and this is its first use.  Seems to be fine though.

25 yards with 7.9gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box


25 yards with 7.9gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box


25 yards with 10.3gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box.  One extra shot taken.


45 yards with 7.9gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box


45 yards with 10.3gr Crosman Premier Domes from the box.  A few extra shots taken here.  I like the grouping on the right.. the two strays not so much. 



Final thoughts on the .22:  I don't know which pellet the .22 favors... Just that for sure it hates the RWS Superdomes and possibly Crosman Domes.  All other pellets seem to shoot about the same.  I still can't believe I found something that can shoot the Crosman Field Points!  You can tell from the extra groups I did to convince myself.   This gun shot just fine on a 1500 psi fill but would valve lock at 1600.  I can't wait to try shooting this in good weather! I know this one is going to be a shooter.

Final thoughts on the .177:  This gun valve locks at less than 1500PSI.  I had some issues with it.  You can tell from the penetration on the target.  The 7.9gr pellet skirts are visible in the 25 yard group.. but have sunk all the way in for the 45 yard test.  I didn't even notice this until posting the pictures.   More testing needed here for sure." (From vigilandy.)

[rsterne]

Just a heads up, guys.... Unless you upgrade the valve screws, I would strongly suggest you do NOT exceed Mike's 1500 psi fill recommendation.... Please see this thread....

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.0

We have no idea what the screws are made of, so I did the calculations assuming mild steel, and got a safety margin of only 1.8:1 at 1500 psi.... In addition, and again assuming mild steel for the tube, the threaded portion only comes out at 2.6:1 safety margin at 1500 psi.... It is possible, of course, that the screws are high tensile (although I've never seen them with Phillips heads) and the tube could very easily be CrMoly, maybe Mike could clarify that.... but unless we know for sure I would suggest treating the gun as if it was a QB 79 and fitted with a 1.8K burst disc on the regulator.... ie a maximum pressure of 1500 psi....

Bob

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO THE FD-PCP INTERNALS, THE MECHANICS BEHIND IT w/LOT OF INFORMATIVE and EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION:

This is a must read, it also includes many detailed pictures! Please click the link below to see them, it is the second post down:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62302.new;topicseen#new


"I completely disassembled the FD-PCP today, and did some measuring.... First of all, here are the parts.... You can pretty much tell from the photo where everything goes....



Here are a few observations about the construction, and some comments about the safety of the design....

1. The fill fitting has an internal check valve, there is no check valve inside the male Foster.... The means you can't use a "T" and install a gauge where the Foster is, it won't read the gun's internal pressure once the check valve closes.... The O-ring that seals the fill fitting is located in the threaded portion of the tube, so part of the threads are pressurized....

2. The back of the tube threads into the receiver.... There are lots of threads, so the shear strength isn't an issue, even though the receiver is aluminum of unknown quality, I wouldn't worry about that.... However, the tube seals at the inner end against a square-section O-ring which sits against a shoulder flush with the front of the valve.... As such, the threaded area of the tube is pressurized....

3. I measured the threads, and they appear to be 22mm OD x 1mm pitch.... While I couldn't find a listed diameter at the bottom of the thread groove, using the standard formula for Metric threads with a 1mm pitch, the diameter should be at least 20.6 mm (0.811").... The inside diameter of the threads in the receiver is 0.827", so the OD of the structural part of the tube certainly has to be smaller than that.... The ID of the tube is 0.745".... I do not know the material the tube is made from, but using 1010 mild steel (44K yield, 53K tensile), I get a pressure to yield of 3900 psi, and 4700 psi to burst.... At the 1500 psi recommended fill pressure, that works out to a 2.6:1 safety margin to yield.... If the threads are shallower, or the material is stronger, then that increases....

4. The valve is located by two 5mm x 0.8 mm steel screws of unknown quality in shear.... Since one of the load-bearing screws is in the steel block behind the valve, is it critical that the valve bear tightly against that block, otherwise only the valve screw would be taking the shear load.... I would highly recommend that when you have your gun apart that you check that, and if they are not in firm contact, add a thin shim between them to insure both screws are doing equal load bearing.... The threaded portion of the screw is subject to the shear load, so I used the minimum listed minor diameter and calculated a total shear force of 1154 lb.f. for the two screws, assuming 1010 mild steel with a 53K tensile strength (32K in shear) .... With a 0.745" ID for the reservoir, at 1500 psi, the load on the valve is 654 lbs. which means the safety margin is 1.8:1.... If the screws were upgraded to high-tensile screws, this would increase, and I would highly recommend that anyone contemplating using more that the recommended fill pressure confirm that the screws are up to the job.... Where the valve screws penetrate the receiver, you could see faint marks from where the threads of the screws were pressing on the back of the hole.... However, the material is thick enough that I was not concerned about the bearing load at the recommended 1500 psi, but it is something to keep an eye on each time you have the gun apart....

5. I noticed that the valve stem only protrudes 0.100" from the back of the steel supporting block.... That limits the valve lift to that distance, although the poppet itself is capable of much more.... I have not measured the actual lift in the FD-PCP, but it would not surprise me that the striker is hitting the block at the low pressure end of the shot string.... This is not likely the case in a properly adjusted shot string at the high pressure end, because the valve is achieving self-regulation.... but it could result in the right hand (low pressure) side of the shot string dropping off quicker than it should if there was more lift available.... This may be the reason for the very limited (approx. 400 psi) pressure range I was seeing between fill and refill when restricting the string to a 4% ES.... I am going to machine 0.050" off the back of that block to allow more lift before I reassemble my gun to confirm this theory.... I have already determined that it is possible to take off 0.080" and still have the striker hit the block without the pin hitting the end of the cocking slot in my gun....

6. I measured the porting on this gun, and to be frank, IT'S HUGE !!! .... The valve throat is 0.205" and the stem is 0.118" giving an equivalvent diameter for the throat of 0.168".... The exhaust port on the valve is 0.195", and the port through the receiver is the same.... The barrel port is 0.162", which is right at the recommended maximum for a .22 cal bore.... About the only thing I can see where you could possibly improve the flow would be to drill out the throat slightly to 7/32" (0.219") and round off the transition between the throat and the bottom of the exhaust port.... No other changes would be necessary for .22 cal, IMO, and in fact the valve is capable of being enlarged to flow well for a .25 cal by increasing the throat to 15/64" and angling the port with a 3/16" mill.... A 3/16" barrel port for the .25 cal barrel would complete the changes.... I did notice that the barrel port was slightly forward of the hole in the receiver, although not enough to shroud it, but if you were building a .25 cal you would want to make sure they lined up better....

In conclusion, the gun is pretty well made, especially considering the price point.... Like most guns, it can benefit from disassembly and cleaning, checking for burrs, and polishing up the hammer, sear, and trigger contact points.... and making sure that bolt functions smoothly, then reassembling with the proper lubes.... With the size of the ports, it is not surprising to see the power the gun puts out, but also not surprising to see the rather "peaky" power curve, which leads to a shorter shot count within a decent ES.... I have made a new fill fitting with integral gauge mount as shown below....



The O-ring is moved inboard of the threads, and it takes up less volume in the reservoir.... I added a check valve to the male Foster fitting....

Bob" (From rsterne.)

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO FILL PRESSURES, SAFETY MARGINS and MORE OF THE MECHANICS BEHIND THE FD-PCP, EDUCATIONAL:

Please read this if you are considering exceeding the recommended fill of 1500-psi:

"The original XS-60C was designed for CO2.... Since that can be reached 1900 psi at 120*F, a prudent designer would design for a MSWP of 1900 psi and allow a safety margin well above that.... A perfect example is the CO2 tanks which go by weight.... They are rated at 1800 psi MSWP (used as the standard for CO2), and carry a 3K burst disc, as that is the pressure that they are Hydrotested to.... If out of date, you can't get them filled, they must be retested.... The XS-60C shares many features with the QB-7X rifles, including, presumably originally a tube that is 22mm OD x 1.5mm wall and therefore 19mm ID.... Even in mild steel (44K yield, 53K tensile), a tube of those dimensions would yield (start to stretch and not recover) at ~7000 psi and burst at ~8400 psi.... The tube Mike has used appears to be the North American equivalent size, which is 0.875" OD x 0.065" wall, which means it is larger on the OD and smaller on the ID (but only 0.003"), and hence stronger.... However, he then threads it to the same 22mm x 1.0mm threads as the stock gun, he has to so that it will fit the receiver.... So, now, assuming the tube is still mild steel of the same quality, the strength of the two tubes, at the bottom of the threads (the thinnest part) is virtually the same as it was before.... Now let's look at that part....

I couldn't find a spec. for the dimensions of a 22mm x 1.0mm thread (it's a bit of an oddball size) to the bottom of the thread, but there is a "Standard Metric Formula" for thread dimensions, and for a 1mm pitch on a 22mm thread, the diameter of the bottom of the grooves comes out to a mimimum 0.811".... assuming the threading was done to that standard.... If a die was used to produce the threads on the tube, that is a safe assumption, if it was done by "single-point" threading in a lathe, then there are two other variables, the depth of cut and the point on the end of the threading tool.... and those could cause significant variations between individual guns, with no way to calculate them, so I assumed that 0.811" measurement.... So, instead of using the 0.875" OD that Mike started with, or the 22mm (0.866" OD) of the original tube, we have to use that 0.811" OD when calculating the wall thickness.... Mike's tube is 0.745" ID, slightly smaller than the 19mm (0.748" ID) of the factory tube, so it picks up a tiny bit there.... but we are dealing with a tube (measured to the bottom of the threads) of 0.811" OD x 0.033" wall (instead of the 0.065" wall it started with).... That works out (using mild steel as above) to ~3900 psi to yield and ~4700 psi to burst.... for a safety margin of 2.6:1 at Mike's recommended 1500 psi.... Incidently, the original tube, at 1800 psi (recognized as the MSWP for CO2).... with it's slightly larger ID, and again assuming mild steel, is ~3700 psi yield and ~4500 burst, for a safety margin of 2.1:1.... This means that if it was subjected to a Hydrotest of 5/3 the working pressure, ie 3000 psi, it should pass.... at least once before there was any fatigue.... The screws, on the other hand, would be right at their shear limit, depending on the material they are made from....

So, we are in a situation not unlike a QB79.... The tube is plenty strong enough, but the holes for the tank block are too close to the end, causing a weak point that has been known to fail at 2600 psi when the stock is not in place, ripping the tank block from the end of the tube and nearly shearing off the stock (very soft) tank block screws in the process.... Like the XS-60C, it would appear on the surface to be plenty strong enough for 1800 psi, but when you look at the details, it comes uncomfortably close to failure at what would be the Hyrdotest pressure of 3000 psi for CO2.... I do not know if this is a cultural difference, but I have a gut feel that the lawyers in a North American firm such as Crosman would highly frown on pushing the design of ANY part of a pressure vessel to those limits.... Once you go to a safety margin of less than 2:1 with steel, you are guaranteeing that eventually fatigue will be a problem.... It becomes a matter of when, not if, a part will fail over time with repeated flexing (filling).... Even using a safetly margin of 3:1 isn't a guarantee that won't occur, because holes, threads, and imperfections in the steel itself lead to increased stresses in the metal (called stress risers) which even though the part as a whole isn't exceeding 50% of the yield stress, locallized portions are, and that can for cracks and lead to failure over time.... Like anything else in life, there are no guarantees, but it is prudent to hedge your bets, and not to exceed 50% of the yield strength of steel components to hopefully avoid fatigue failure....

Please realize that I intend no criticism here for Mike Melick.... He has used the same engineering numbers as were used on the stock XS-60C, which was designed for CO2 use, and in fact because his tube is 0.003" smaller on the ID, it is slightly stronger with the same external threads.... If he chose CrMoly tubing for the reservoir, then the safety margin at yield can be increased to 3.7:1 at 1500 psi, and it would be 2.8:1 at 2000 psi.... Likewise, if a thicker wall tubing was used (smaller ID), the safety factor would drastically increase, but of course a custom fill-fitting would be required to fit the smaller ID.... We are still left with the fact that without a valve screw upgrade that remains the most likely point of the gun to fail.... If you upgrade the screws, then the next thing to look for is the tops of the screw threads pressing dents into the aluminum receiver as the load will eventually exceed its yield strength.... Unless you really know what you are doing, I would strongly suggest you stick to Mike's recommended 1500 psi fill pressure.... I, for one, will not exceed it, and if I was going to build a bottle gun, I would make sure that the regulator had a 1.8K burst disc installed,, just like I would on a QB 7X....

Bob" (From rsterne.)

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO .22 CALIBER SHOT-STRING TESTING WITH THE FULL-POWER TUNED FLYING DRAGON-PCP:

The following is initial testing after the completion of a Full-Power Tune and Polishing.

Power Adjuster and Trigger Group set to its lowest power output. The Power Adjuster Screw was turned all the way out and the Trigger Group moved all the way forward. 2000-psi fill.

14.3-grain

1. 861-fps

2. 870-fps

3. 878-fps

4. 889-fps

5. 884-fps

6. 902-fps

7. 908-fps

8. 911-fps

9. 915-fps

10. 930-fps

11. 929-fps

12. 927-fps

13. 920-fps

14. 911-fps

15. 898-fps

16. 880-fps

17. 863-fps

Average velocity= 910-fps.

High fpe= 27.46.

Please Note: the first 2 shots and the last one are out of the 36+ or - that 4% allows with a 910-fps average.

If I wanted everyone of those shots to be in the mid to high 900s, would just be a matter of turning the screw in a bit, but I like just where it is now, until further testing is performed that is and we may find something better.

Tried out a 32.4-grain Eun Jin and got high 780-fps with 44-fpe!

Still some fine tuning to do, but extremely happy with the results thus far.

So that I can increase the shot count in the future when shooting the 14.3-grain pellets, some further adjustments will be made.

Respectfully,

Al.

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO SHOT-STRING TESTING WITH .22 FLYING DRAGON-PCP, USING 14.3-GRAIN PELLETS:

Extremely happy with these results! When Bob (rsterne) comments that something is "excellent", you know you are doing something right!

All credit goes to Jason B. (JTB530), as he is the one who has performed all of the Tuning, Polishing and Modifications. Full report and pictures soon to come, along with accuracy results.

Power Adjuster set to lowest power setting, i.e., the Power Adjuster Screw is all the way out.

14.3-grain Shot-String:

1. 906-fps-

2. 912-fps-

3. 917-fps-

4. 927-fps-

5. 936-fps-

6. 936-fps-

7. 943-fps-

8. 934-fps-

9. 932-fps-

10. 924-fps-

11. 912-fps-

12. 905-fps-

Started with a fill of 1850-psi and ended with roughly 1150-psi. (From AirGunWarriors.)


Bob's (rsterne) comments or break-down of this shot-string:

"Al, here is the efficiency calculation for that string.... which was a 4% ES....

Average 924 fps.... 27.1 FPE x 12 shots = 325 FPE total....

700 psi used = 700psi/14.5 = 48.3 bar.... 115 cc/16.4 = 7.0 CI.... 48.3 x 7.0 = 338 total CI of air used at 1 bar pressure....

325 FPE / 338 CI = 0.96 FPE/CI efficiency....

Bob"

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO THE POINT OF VIEW FROM A NEW OWNER OF THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP w/DETAILED INFORMATION:

I found this post to be very interesting and chock full of detailed information from someone that has just taken possecion of his all new FD-PCP Air-Rifle. Really great write-up that's worth checking-out, especially for those still sitting on the fence!:)

Please click on the link below, there you will also see some really nice pictures:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0

"So after kicking around buying a simple, single-shot .22 or .25 with open sights that I could use for relatively close and personal pest control around the house, I decided to give the FD a shot as a lot of the mods, tweaks, etc that people are doing and reporting seem to prove that for $100, the platform is pretty decent ... Well, the gun arrived today, so I got it out and took a good look-see - and was actually quite impressed, other than the white goo on the buttpad everyone seems to have found this rifle actually has a better feel and appearance than a Hammerli Pneuma I bought (and returned) last year (and THAT gun was far from $100 !!!)



SO ... being as I had read that Mike seems to ship these with a charge (and my nitro setup is in the garage which is about 1/4 mile from the house so no way of actually seeing if it was full or not other than shoot it) I figured "what the heck" and threw a H&N 19gr in her and headed out to the deck, aimed at my little Gamo 1" spinners at my 20M shooting station and PING - first shot with open sights, actually nailed the shot. VERY impressive ...



Not wanting to get *too* excited (and of course, realizing it was likely a fluke that I actually hit the spinner) I grabbed another pellet, came out and tried the same thing at one of the golf balls hanging off of my 30M Shooting Station - with the same result , hit it (not a "direct" hit, the ball moreso swung sideways so I guess you'd call it more of a good graze but HEY - open sights, unadjusted at 30M? Good by me, LOL)



NOW, I'm torn - this was supposed to be a fun little popper for critters that are too close for any of the scoped guns, but it seems to actually have some darn solid potential - and I just HAPPENED to have a Simmons and some high dovetails laying around, hmmmm ... Obviously, You can see where THIS is going



At this point, I'm off to grab some Soft Scrub (already have the WD ready) so I can give the barrel a good cleaning, going to do a fast teardown just to make sure everything is tight and right, so to speak, and even though it's about 12 degrees outside I don't care - I'm going to print up some targets and see what this silly thing can do. If it's as good as the first prelim test shots show then I'm just ordering another one for pest shooting, THIS one will get tuned up and will be a GREAT little gun for the Golf Cart or maybe even the "Other Half" (who has been bugging me for her "Own" gun lately) - WOW. So far I am pretty darn impressed !!! (OH - AND 6lbs 4oz SCOPED - once everyone gets together and the final verdict is in on the PROD magazine conversion this could be a really sweet little hunter!)" (From BrewCityMusic.)

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO SHOT COUNT WITH THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:

I found this to be a pretty awesome demonstration on just how many shots you may actually have before the POI starts to drop too much. So, let's say you have a nice 4% or better bell curve and that it gives you 13-shots in .22; well, try the following and see just how many more accurate shots you really may have:

(Please click on the link to see the images, it is the 12th post on the page: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0)

"OK - after the groups above, I drew out a straight set of lines and started shooting them left to right *just to see* at what shot the POI started to drop ... As You can see, shots 13 through 21 were dead on or a tad high (prob my fault, I wasn't really worried too much about technique here, just putting them left to right in a line and likely pulled the high ones myself) with shots 22 and 23 just a hint low (still touching the line but definitely on the bottom side) ... Shot 24-26 were within 1/2" of drop, and from there it's pretty self-explainatory ...



NOW - before anyone "flames out" on my decidedly unprofessional and amateurish approach to these initial tests, I am just trying to give some real world "Pellets on Paper" answers to those who don't really care about shot curves, the magic 4%, which material is better to use when turning a new higher-whatever valve stem, who can machine what better than who to squeeze another 100fps, etc but just want an idea if A) the gun is an accurate one out of the box, and B) how many useful shots can someone expect without resorting to learning and performing those sort of things. I know when *I* first got into playing with these AG's, those were the questions I had and sometimes around here it can be a bit difficult to get a straight answer that a newbie can understand, and especially ones that aren't just subjective opinion, etc but are backed up by again, pellets on paper under controlled and documented conditions and circumstances.

THAT SAID, I am totally impressed with this gun. Out of the box with a basic cleaning that anyone can do on their kitchen table (or workshop, depending on how forgiving the "other half" may be of your hobbies) it's pulling 1/4" groups at 33yds without basically ANY break-in, and on a 1700psi fill it's getting 23 shots with 13.43g JSB's without a noticeable drop in the point of impact. For NOW, that's all I was really hoping to find out, and I like it. So much in fact that I might just leave it alone (which of course sounds good but is very VERY unlikely, LOL)." (From: BrewCityMusic)

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO CLEANING THE BARREL ON THE FLYING DRAGON-PCP:

Please click on the link below and scroll to the 9th post on the page to see what it is you should really be doing upon receiving your FD-PCP:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62773.0

"Well I didn't tear into it yet, but I did give it an initial "test cleaning" using spiderwire fishing line, trimmed patches, and god old-fashioned "Goo Gone" - which definitely proved that pulling the barrel and doing a thorough cleaning is likely not just an "option" but a necessity :



(to be perfectly accurate there was ONE wet and ONE dry patch pulled through prior to this using the old standby "weedeater" method, but as I mentioned above with the length of the bolt probe, etc that method was a real pain in the ***)

I'm giving it a half hour to dry out in the rifling and will pull some more through and see how clean I can get it with "conventional" means then sight it in and see where it's at so people who aren't familiar or comfortable with maintainance like pulling barrels, etc can see what to expect with a minimum of easy prep and setup" (From: BrewCityMusic)

[rsterne]

bump

[airgunwarriors]

IN REFERENCE TO IF YOU ARE HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH AIR LEAKING OUT WHEN TRYING TO FILL THE TUBE:

Here's a link to another thread on GTA that may help you figure out how to fix the above mentioned issue:

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=63060.0

Should you have anymore questions about the subject in the link above, please post questions in the thread found in the link above.

Respectfully,

Al.